*not attacking an organisation you have a difference with.*

Fester, that depends on the organisation. If a religion preaches
to its volunteer flock, that is one thing. Let them preach.

If they become highly political and try to enforce their
beliefs on others, through political lobbying, with the
aim of changing legislation for all, then they become political
players and as such, are open to the game of politics and
open slather.

The Vatican is extremely good at lobbying, with a great deal
of experience. In the first world we have learned to deal with
their attempts to intrude on peoples lives. Not so in the third
world, where they are still very active, the Philipines for instance.

I see no reason not to criticise an organisation, religious or not,
which wants to force people to go backwards by 100 years.

As a matter of interest, before George Bush was elected, I joined
a Catholic email group, to find out what they were up to. The
moment Bush was elected, members were urged to bombard his office
with letters, emails and phone calls, to change funding for
family planning in the third world. It was very effective.
America changed all the funding policies put in place by Clinton.
Family planning clinics in places like Ethiopia had to close as
a result.

I see no good reason, not to be openly critical of such an organisation or religion

Fester,

"the preponderance of available epidemiologic studies have found that when used consistently and correctly, condoms are highly effective in preventing the sexual transmission of HIV infection and reduce the risk of other STDs. "

http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm

Noted that they emphasise "consistently and correctly" throughout.

Unfortunately condoms are not often used consistently and correctly, and when dealing with STD’s such as HIV or AIDS, having many sexual partners while wearing a condom becomes very similar to Russian roulette.

Added to this is the quick deterioration of condoms in hot climate conditions, which means they would have to be transported and stored in air-conditioning. Not likely in many third world countries.

I believe there have been certain agencies completely removed from the Catholic Church that no longer advise the use of condoms because the risks are too great, and the use of condoms just gives people a false sense of security.

I think if someone believes anything said by academics and feminists (both basically the same) then they would have to believe anything said by anyone.

Yabby

The Catholic Church lobbies for policies which its hierarchy believe to be moral and just. So to attack the hierarchy is to attack people for making what they believe to be moral and just decisions. I think it better to take the stance of the officer with the mentally challenged animal owner, and argue that perhaps the choices being made are not in the best interests of the flock.

At least in the Philippines, the choice will be made by elected representatives around the middle of next year. A poll conducted showed that supporters of universally available reproductive health care outnumbered opponents by 10 to 1, with a quarter of respondents undecided. This prompted one of the clergy to call for a ban on public opinion polls on the subject.

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/207354/cbcp-exec-calls-for-a-stop-to-rh-surveys

* So to attack the hierarchy is to attack people for making what they believe to be moral and just decisions.*

Ah Fester, but if that hierarchy want to enforce their viewpoint
on everyone legally and not restrict themselves to preaching to
their flocks, then they are fair game, as all involved in politics.

The church is free to restrict themselves to Catholics who actually
care about that hierarchy. That is where the huge difference lies.

If it were up to the Catholic Church, not even divorce would be
allowed. The fact that the Vatican has been attacked and shown
to be for what it is, is one of the reasons why few in the first
world take them seriously anymore. Yes, the papers mention what
the pope said and did, but they do the same for Paris Hilton.

Fact is that many in the first world are not aware of the damage
done in the third world, by Catholic ideology and political
manipulation. Thanks the internet, that is changing, luckily.

This is an argument about basic human rights and seperation of
church and state. If the Catholic Church wants to be politically
active, perhaps they can share a part of the costs, by paying
taxes.

I feel like break dancing after that last post:)

Yabby...........that as to be the post of the 21.

....and this is why.

http://tinyurl.com/24qsgsb

Looks like business is booming.

BLUE

Yabby,
I'm reminded of the last line in the article

"If the church does not have anything to say in support of condoms, it should just say nothing at all."

Could be changed somewhat.

If someone (including university academics who follow feminist law like sheep) does not have anything to say in support of a Church, they should say nothing at all.

Would you agree with the above.