Curmudgeon, agree that a lot of Democrats supporters are now in the Green camp especially those who identify as liberal in social issues. But as I see it, the Greens are clearly on the "Left" in most economic issues whereas the Democrats tended to incorporate ideas from all sides. The Democrats did drift (or at least were perceived to drift) to the Left towards their last years in the Senate and coupled with the infighting, voters just went elsewhere. Unless the Liberal party splits or all the moderates are pushed out I don't think the Democrats can find a way back for a while (if at all).

keith, the problem is not that the Greens will replace Brown with a woman, it's that they will replace him with a politician (yes, Bob Brown is a politician). We have plenty of dud politicians, both male and female.

As for the sustainability debate...the first link Pericles provided mentions one important point: "Unless Japan’s productivity rises faster than its workforce declines, which seems unlikely, its economy will shrink." - We shouldn't have to continually use resources to increase productivity, but so far no alternative model has been found. Also, the article mentions Japan's seniority-based pay structure (which includes openly discriminatory hiring practices) and its (reciprocal) mistrust of Asia. Australia is in a different position, the vast majority have no qualms with people of different backgrounds and our education textbooks do not gloss over WW2 atrocities.

A large number of Japanese companies are now expanding their overseas operations in a bid to survive and remain gloablly competitive. Whether that will be enough to offset their ageing population will only be seen in a few years. One way for Australia to continue to thrive would be to find value-adding export industries. Tourism and education are not doing so well and manufacturing is a minor player.

http://currentglobalperceptions.blogspot.com/

I think that Chris Lewis is right that the Greens will
likely be around for some time, and probably usefully so.
As Pericles alluded, I think they perform a kind of "conscience"
function for the Parliament, while providing a voting alternative
for those of us who have become disenchanted with Labor and/or
the Coalition.

The Greens are far from perfect, but as a former Labor
voter I voted for them at the last Federal election because
their policies conform more closely to my own ideals since
Labor has drifted to the Right. I can't see the Greens
coming within cooee of governing anywhere in Australia
very soon, and I think that it's good for our democracy
to have a third political force, if only to keep the other
b*stards honest (so to speak).

The Greens seem to be too Green for some, not Green enough
for others, and even Red to a few. If nothing else,
they obviously appeal to people of various political hues,
and will do so for the forseeable future. My feeling is
that they haven't reached their political zenith in
Australia just yet.

Fair question, Ludwig.

>>Well…. why on Earth are (or were) you criticising them then, or commenting at all on this thread?<<

Because the Greens present themselves as a political party. As such, they have some bearing on the shape of government in this country. I am therefore forced to have an opinion on them. Believe me, I'd rather not be so obligated.

>>Come on Pericles, it’s a bit shallow to be criticising them without offering any ideas of what you think they should be doing!<<

Not at all.

As I said, they are fulfilling a perfectly legitimate function, capturing the "planetary-guilt" vote, which they are able to do without actually having to articulate policies that are at all practical or beneficial, as they know deep in their hippy hearts that they will never be required to implement them.

And as you yourself pointed out earlier, they are conforming to the German template. If they ever do get rolled up into a major party, they will drop their principles like so many hot bricks. Parliamentary salaries are not to be sniffed at, you know.

So I don't "expect" them to do anything different to what they are doing at the moment, which is to provide a warm and fuzzy home for the protest vote of people who are unwilling to engage in the hard work of assessing real policies, but console themselves instead with the thought that their vote somehow shows that they "care".

An electoral bolt-hole that has satisfied, and will continue to satisfy, the emotional needs of around ten percent of the population.

>>‘Scuuuze me! Who’s heckling from the back row without offering anything useful here?? Hmmmm?<<

Think of it more as encouragement. Keep right on keeping "right on", brother.

But until the Greens present cogent policies that make sense and are implementable, don't expect any response other than: "Good Grief. They cannot be serious?"

Hi Chris,

My son's great-grandfather told me to be treated with acceptance and respect all I ever had to do was be true to myself. (I think Ted Beaulieu's been aware of the same attitude.)

I'm liberal and vote liberal. He was a worker and voted accordingly.

My son's grandfather didn't take his fathers advice ... for much of his life. He was a middleclass government employee and eventuallly became wealthy through his own enterprise. As he aged he fell out with his old peers. They thought him an 'old tory' and he knew they didn't know what it was to be labourite.

Dad eventually became true to himself ... without any regret.

Both my dad and grandad were very proud of me when I went into business. Granddad reckoned I'd achieved what he wanted all those years ago when he first joined the Labour Party. He was pleased I'd got out of the working class mire where he'd found himself and his family.

How many of the current crop of labor pollies and union organisers had great grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers who'd joined the Labour Party with the same goal.

How many of those forebears would now be saying to their professionally trained and wealthy descendants 'get out of the way and let labour/working people decide for themselves what's best for them and their families. Let them achieve for their families what we've achieved for ours?'.

It's not a strategy. It a renewal of ideals that's needed, and that definitely doesn't include any attempt by anyone to live others ideals. Especially the ideals of our kids great grand parents and grandparents.

I don't think the current middleclass labor pretenders can let go of their meddling in workers lives.

The greens ... who, but professional trained and academics, cares?

Now here's a question for you.

Put in order who you think the were the most effective labour PM's : a train driver, a journalist and anti-conscription activist, a Rhodes Scholar, a public service clerk, a millionaire businessman or a couple of lawyers?

yeah I know the world has changed.

<< As I said, they [the Greens] are fulfilling a perfectly legitimate function, capturing the "planetary-guilt" vote … >>

Ah phoowey!

That’s not a legitimate function at all; to take the vote of those who are concerned about the health of our planet and our future wellbeing and then proceed to do next to nothing in that sort of direction!

Pericles, I guess you would agree that the Libs and Labs are virtually the same these days, and that their political direction is NOT what this country really needs, as we head into troubled times.

The Libs and Labs are right together in one political position, while other political points on the spectrum remain unoccupied. The opportunity is there for a party to take up a substantially different position which would both be MUCH better for our future wellbeing AND would appeal to a large portion of the votership.

As an established party, with some semblance of the right sort of political philosophy, the Greens should be grabbing this enormous opportunity.

As I said in my first post, this position would revolve around the sustainability imperative, with a stable population and steady-state economy at its core. This should be very much in line with the Greens philosophy.

With people like Dick Smith, Kelvin Thomson, Bob Carr, Tim Flannery, Ian Lowe, etc, really pushing this sustainability business, with the media sitting up and taking notice at last and with a lot of support being shown in the general community, they’d be on a winner.

But alas, for reasons that I do not understand, the Groans just won’t do this.

I predict that they will be surpassed by a new party, which will fill this glaring void before too long. Perhaps the Stable Population Party will be the one: http://www.populationparty.com/ .

<< So I don't "expect" them to do anything different to what they are doing at the moment… >>

Well, I DO… well and truly!

Ring down the curtain on the Greens farce. The show is over even if the fat lady has forgotten the lyrics and is taking long to sing the fugue.

socratease