No Chris,

I think the end of the Greens is nigh.

Once Brown is replaced by a woman they'll lose focus on the environment and start in-fighting, replacing one leader after another ... just like the dems.

Of greater significance is that once it becomes clear that state Liberal Governments start re-focusing state finances and resources on delivery of services, and they return to previous levels, the vast majority of voters will never be enamoured with a return to the 'great social justice issues' of the spinmisters of the Labor party and their dominant union lightweights.

I think we are seening the end of the 'cult of personality' type spin, that is built on reputations espousing 'social justice'issues, of the socialists and their green mates. I don't think the voting public will ever again be taken in by the likes of Carr, Beattie and Bracks.

And isn't it great the voting public have stopped listening to the labor experts in the media.

I think overall we are witnessing the death throes of the Labor Party. It'll thrash about for a few years in the wilderness and trash one leader after another, be unable to generate any great talent from it's union and pollie staffer dominated ranks, and eventually become just another party among a miraid of minor 'rump' parties.

Gillard is already in for the chop, and nobodys talking about it ... just like with Kevin. Those that follow like Shorten and each of his heirs, will go the same way, as all they'll ever have is unworkable 'social justice ideas', personality cult and an inability to actually do anything.

<< They will at some point in the future simply morph into a vaguely trendy rump of one of the existing Parties. This will still allow them to trumpet "values", but without the necessity to actually do anything constructive. >>

What do you mean ‘at some point’, Pericles?? ( :>|

It’s pretty similar in Oz to the German experience, as far as I can tell!

<< One of the problems, of course, is that they care too much about the "big" issues >>

Whaaat?? Just the opposite!

<< Like population (thanks Ludwig) and conservation and global warming and other similarly fundamentally intractable stuff. >>

Intractable??!!??.

Well, global warming might be getting close to intractable, but population and conservation issues in Australia certainly aren’t.

Crikey Peri, what on earth do you think the Greens should be doing??

You’d apparently condemn them for trying to tackle the big issues AND for being too close to one or both of the liblabs and only dealing with small issues that don’t threaten that relationship!

Ooow dear, things is looking a bit hairy in Japan, in connection with a stable and aging population. Wow, we in Oz had better make sure that doesn’t happen to us. Let’s boost our population growth even higher than it is, open more mines, borrow more Chinese money, blah, blah. Rapid continuous growth is the answer to everything afterall. YAY!!

Keith,

In regard to your comments about Labor, what do you suggest is its best strategy?

I agree the social justice argument is wearing a bit thin, but won't the political cycle continue in the sense that people will continue to support centre-left and centre-right parties at different times, depending on the mood of the day.

At the moment, people have had enough of state Labor govts, at least on East coast.

But I don't think that either of the major parties has the right balance, besides the need to get rid of rhetoric.

I agree with your point that we need to get rid of the 'cult of personality' type spin and deal with the issues,

I support extensive debate, so if the Greens can offer a policy view of some merit, I am all for it.

How it sells itself and defies the criticism directed at some of its policies is a matter for the Greens if it wants to make wider appeal.

That's a lot of arm-waving, Ludwig.

>><< One of the problems, of course, is that they care too much about the "big" issues >> Whaaat?? Just the opposite!<<

So you care too little about the "big" issues? Or you care too much about the "small" issues?

>>Well, global warming might be getting close to intractable, but population and conservation issues in Australia certainly aren’t.<<

Debatable. The signs that indicate tractability are pretty thin on the ground, wouldn't you say?

>>Crikey Peri, what on earth do you think the Greens should be doing??<<

Crikey Ludwig, what on earth makes you think I expect the Greens to do anything?? Apart from chirp platitudes from the sidelines, that is.

For that reason, I don't "condemn" them for anything at all. In the same way that hippies were essential to the sixties, Greens were essential to the nineties.

And your content-free observations on the situation in Japan are the perfect illustration of why I cannot take you particularly seriously.

As the editorial that preceded the feature you glanced at points out:

"...a dwindling band of workers will have to support rising social-security payments, as the number of retired people grows. This will strain public finances. Ten years ago each person in retirement was supported by four in work. In ten years that burden will fall on only two workers. "

http://www.economist.com/node/17522568?story_id=17522568

Sadly, it is typical of the Green attitude, that all you can do is heckle from the back row of the stalls.

And that is also the reason why the Greens will remain irrelevant in Australian politics, except as idealistic dreamers with a dysfunctional agenda, and a propensity to make a nuisance of themselves whenever they get the opportunity.

<< Crikey Ludwig, what on earth makes you think I expect the Greens to do anything?? Apart from chirp platitudes from the sidelines, that is. >>

Haaahahhaaa, so you actually don’t have any expectations or desired direction or policies for the Greens at all. Well…. why on Earth are (or were) you criticising them then, or commenting at all on this thread?…coz they have stuff-all in the way of meaningful policies that they are actually working on (and which are not just sitting there in writing but basically going unattended), no meaningful direction and…well…not much at all really.

What on earth had led me to think that you expect the Greens to do anything? Erm, possibly your criticisms of them in your first post might have had something to do with it. Come on Pericles, it’s a bit shallow to be criticising them without offering any ideas of what you think they should be doing!

<< "...a dwindling band of workers will have to support rising social-security payments, as the number of retired people grows. This will strain public finances. Ten years ago each person in retirement was supported by four in work. In ten years that burden will fall on only two workers. " >>

So are you really suggesting that the rapid continuous never-ending importation of young workers and an ever-growing economic turnover is the answer to preventing this problem in Oz?

What about modifications to tax policy, distribution of wealth, welfare, incentives to stay in the workforce, improvements in economic efficiency and the benefits for the common citizen, etc, etc. This would all take a lot of work and meet a few obstacles along the way, but it would surely be vastly better than to just continue expanding our population and economy in an endless spiral into oblivion!

What are your solutions to this dilemma Pericles?

<< Sadly, it is typical of the Green attitude, that all you can do is heckle from the back row of the stalls. >>

‘Scuuuze me! Who’s heckling from the back row without offering anything useful here?? Hmmmm?

Keith :)

you say:

//Once Brown is replaced by a woman they'll lose focus on the environment and start in-fighting, replacing one leader after another ... just like the dems.//

If you want a living demonstration of that very thing....just have a peek at the links graham gave about "Cyberia".

Foxy is still the same, in deep denial about any view other than her own..and stone walling anyone who pushes her on this tactic.. but now..the only people she can do this with are what she might have regarded as former allies..and now they are tearing each other to shreds..I can almost imagine Morgans panicked face as he watches over the future of the Greens in microcosm :)