Well I certainly don’t believe in prostitution or agree with it. Prostitution is feminism at its worst, as prostitutes blatantly exploit men for money.

Within prostitution, there is no link between men and women other than money, and prostitution is one of the most virulent forms of feminism

Vanna, you crack me up, you really do. Never saw the parrallel between feminism and prostitutes before.

Vanna, you crack me up, you really do. Never saw the parrallel between feminism and prostitutes before.

Where once I thought feminists were about denying and withholding sex from men, especially when they have been bad boys. Here you are saying that they are making men pay for it, in cold hard cash.

we could always totally legalise prostitution in WA and be dumb enough like the Victorian to believe the problem will be contained. There are now more illegal brothels in Victoria than ever before despite the Government being brainwashed by sex worker lobby groups who have only self interest and money as their primary interest.

James H,
When I was living in Paris many years ago, I had to walk down a street filled with prostitutes to get to the subway. At first they or their pimps would try to solicit, but I declined. I would always say hello to the prostitutes, and after a number of weeks, some would wave and say hello to me. They knew I wasn't interested in paying for sex, and would simply say hello.

Maybe a prostitute has some humanity and is even capable of love, but I cannot detect any humanity in a feminist, who treat men as a walking wallet ON A CONTINUOUS BASIS.

I'm not sure from where this conservative streak enters the WA
liberals. Perhaps from nervous wives, worried that their husband
too, might have a quickie over lunch.

For years prostitution was banned in WA, but the law was hardly
enforced, so it kept the whole industry contained to some degree.

Even now, our policeforce have far more important things to do,
then worry about who is sleeping with whom and for how much.

The reality is that the West Australian daily carries 1-3 pages
of classifieds, for you guessed it, sex for sale. Its a great
way these days, for university students to pay their way through
uni, especially foreign ones paying extremely high fees.

The religious right will never stop that, its the oldest
profession on earth. Next we are a mining state, with lots of
men earning huge money, far more then they know what to do with
sensibly. There will always be women who want a share of that,
rather then just give it away at the pub for nothing. Practical
girls, I call them.

Yabby,

Someone can call them "practical girls" or "sex workers", but they are prostitutes.

They use men for money. Men have a sex drive, and prostitutes exploit that sex drive to get the money from men.

Prostitutes are very exploitative, and when there are too many prostitutes, or prostitution becomes common place, prostitutes also tend to make other women believe that they should also be exploiting men or using men for money.

Feminists are very similar, or worse in most ways.

*They use men for money. Men have a sex drive, and prostitutes exploit that sex drive to get the money from men.*

Err, not so different from the girl who marries the rich guy,
as she wants to spend his money. Everyone admires her though.
Mothers commonly even encourage it, she's made a "good catch".

Yabby,

She's made a "good catch".

Exactly, and the more prostitution there is, the more likely a woman only thinks of a man as a walking wallet.

I've even known 17 year old girls to say that they would not go out with a boy unless he had his own car.

There is no romance in prostitution. It is loveless and exploitative, and the more there is, the more we have a loveless and exploitative society.

We already have feminism without the need for more of a loveless and exploitative society.

[Deleted for abuse.]

*Exactly, and the more prostitution there is, the more likely a woman only thinks of a man as a walking wallet.*

Vanna, it seems to me that you don't understand the basics of
biology, or why pairbonding as we know it, evolved in the first
place. Or perhaps you have just watched too many holywood movies.

At the end of the day, females of species which require alot of
resources, pairbond with males to help provide them for the
offspring. Have you ever noticed how most women put their
kids first and foremost above all else?

Next shock horror, when you get rid of all the starry eyed stuff,
love is based on self interest. You love somebody for how
they make YOU feel. Be she cute, be she nice, whatever.

Hookers are simply being honest. Why should I knock honesty?

@ Vanna - I'm confused! Since when have feminists "treated men as a walking wallet on a continuous basis"?

Vanna, it sounds as though you're afraid of prostitutes and feminists, and therefore suggest they are one and the same. (Of course, prostitutes can - as some do - identify as feminists. But I don't that's the point being made here).

Back to the ARTICLE - a sad indictment on the limited legal rights of sex workers, and the unlimited powers of WA police force to crack down on these workers. Even scarier, this is the very police force that prosecuted an innocent man for murder in the mid-1990s, when it was obvious even to some in their ranks that he didn't commit the crime.

vanna "Well I certainly don’t believe in prostitution or agree with it."

"In a feminist society, most relationships with women are now the same, and are unlikely to be of any real benefit to men.

Best to think of something else." http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11131#186941

Where is this heading, are you a recruiter for the catholic priesthood?

R0bert

Actually, to be honest Vanna, I disagree with your statement despite the fact I believe in the need and requirement for Sexual health workers. Yes, 'health' being the operative term I personally use.

Prostitutes are sexual health workers, in an industry greatly assisting people both mentally and physically.

People pay for a service. Women and Men are not exploiting men or women for sex.

Regardless of my Christian beliefs, I have NEVER frowned or looked down upon any sexual health worker. I do not term or label people prostitutes given that every person earns money in one way or another and using both their minds and bodies.

Elena I suggest you get in touch with other companies in the States that are legal, two of whom are NSW and the A.C.T. and the owners of those companies, in all probability, will assist you, as they have been there and done that on numerous occasions, finally making the penny drop with politicians ie the positives far outweigh the negatives regarding the legalisation of the sex working industry

A curious fact about female sex workers, most grew up without their natural fathers... Sometimes they had a good, loving stepfather, or othertimes a series of low-life 'mummies-new-boyfriends' but rarely their NATURAL FATHER.

It is a biological fact, that for the mammals that partner, if the children grow up without their natural father, the children grow up to be more sexually active and reach puberty younger.

Humans are mammals too. Many peer-reviewed, published articles concur. Girls who grow up without their NATURAL FATHERS reach puberty prematurely, averaging 18months earlier, and have earlier sexuals experiences, and are betwe 5 to 7 times more likely to end up pregnant as teenagers.

This 18mths often means that these girls are able to get pregnant in primary school! That's just wrong. Girls don't need a 'male role model' they need their NATURAL FATHER.

Google 'Bruce Ellis, Premature puberty, Uni Arizona' for more detail.

You are correct Part-time Parent.

I have mixed with many teenage girls to know that your claims are indeed factual.

I raised this issue on an associated thread regarding Daughters and their biological fathers when I first joined OLO.

Jay Thompson
No thank you for your personalised remarks.

What university taught you to make personalised remarks?

To clarify my argument, basically I would support the WA move to clamp down on prostitution. Nearly all prostitution is associated with drugs and also tax avoidance, where people don’t pay the right amount of tax, or pay no tax at all.

Prostitution is also a system of using men for their money. A prostitute’s so-called client is just a faceless walking wallet to the prostitute. He is just one out of hundreds.

Within feminism, there is almost nothing good said about the male gender, but feminists never refuse money from men. So men are just walking wallets to the vast majority of feminists.

In terms of their attitudes towards men, prostitutes and feminists are on very similar levels.

Robert,
Would you like to live in a street where prostitutes stand at every corner and at every doorway? There are such streets. And there are also cities where prostitutes sit in chairs in shop front windows (eg Amsterdam).

“Welcome to our beautiful city of prostitutes”.

We are unique,
So now a prostitute should be called a “sexual health worker”. It is not about sexual health, it is all about money.

If the so-called client doesn’t pay money, then the prostitute can call it rape. So the only difference between “rape” and “not rape” is money.

Money is the only morality of a prostitute.

For all the vitriol aimed at prostitutes, they would not be employed if no men sought their services.

Restricting where and how they can work is mainly a response to Australia's incredibly prudish nature, and is counter productive, as it forces them to work outside the law.

Shadow minister,
Prostitutes tempt others to seek their services.

Similarly, junk food merchants tempt others to buy junk food, and quite often succeed.

It is interesting how feminists so often support prostitutes, who basically have no morality and actually regard men as nothing more than walking wallets.

Doesn't say much for feminism.

Or maybe it does, because it shows the complete hypocrisy of feminism.

Prostitution is a profession that very few choose if faced with other options. If this criminalized, all that happens is that it goes underground, with all the attendant health and safety risks.

Vilifying them and treating them as sub humans only makes things worse.

Shadow minister,
"very few choose if faced with other options"

Oh rubbish. The vast majority of prostitutes could get a proper job, earn money and pay tax like the rest of us. Instead, they choose prostitution.

Do you want to know about cities where prostitution is rank; well I’ve lived in some of them.

You can’t walk down the street to buy a loaf of bread without someone approaching you wanting to sell their body or sell you drugs.

There can be 50 year old women on the streets trying to sell their body. They have been on the streets for decades.

Behind a red light district, there is often a white light district, and you make sure you don’t get lost and end up in the white light district.

If you open the door of your unit or apartment, you have to be careful you don’t step on a syringe.

If someone went to a park for their children to play, they would have to check out the whole area to make sure there were no syringes, drugs or used condoms lying about.

That is the world of prostitution and all that it attracts.

But you don’t here too many prostitutes complaining about it.

vanna I'd not want to live in a street full or nightclub's, pub's, mechanical workshops (my street has one of them which is great) or any of range of other businesses. On the other hand people working from home with a small number of clients and doing so discretely I've got no problem with.

The article was not about red light districts (other than a preference for something more discrete).

I've never been so devoid of physical human contact for long enough that the idea of using a prostitute has had real appeal to me.

People use their services for a variety of reason's, some I can sympathize with and other which I find deplorable (just as there are a variety of reasons for people taking on the occupation).

Other than the religiously inspired objections to sex outside of marriage most of the objections to prostitution seem to be correlation rather than causation.

Perhaps a mix, I can imagine that for some people the business would drive them to substance abuse but I suspect that where prostitution and substance abuse travel together it's the substance abuse leading to the career choice not the other way around.

R0bert

Robert,
Many, if not most prostitutes take drugs. Some may start off not taking drugs, but eventually take drugs to endure or carry on with the prostitution.

Others may be drug addicts and use prostitution to get money for their habit.

Their pimps can also take drugs, and many prostitutes can be at greater risk from their pimps than anyone else.

Madams in brothels can also be a danger to a prostitute, although the madam normally gets someone else to bash her.

It is certainly not the harmless or glamorous business some try and make it out to be.

But you don’t here too many prostitutes complaining about it [Vanna]

No, Vanna, given their work is paying for their HECS Fees to become a GP, Specialist or Dentist to treat your body and/or teeth at a later date!

I will add my name to the list of prudes who disapprove of prostitution, and I will do so proudly and uncompromisingly.

That said, there are many other things in our society that draw my disapproval, few of which I would like to see banned. Living in Queensland both before and after the liberalisation of prostitution laws, the only negative impact on my life has been the lack of entertaining reading in the classifieds. I miss those old ads for 'masseuses' who offer discretion and very impressive vital statistics. I suspect that legit massage therapists are relieved, though, that they can now offer 'fully body massages' without ambiguity.

While I cannot imagine a time in my life when I will feel compelled to visit a prostitute, I understand that others do. Why not give them a safe place to do it? A place where they can have shallow, meaningless sex without fear of arrest and public humiliation? Part of me wants to reject the notion that they have a right to discretion, but the reality is that those who want such discretion have their reasons. Their marital issues (if such issues exist) are the business of themselves and their wives - nobody else. Let's spare their wives the stigma, as well!

Realistically, I don't want a brothel next door to my house when I have kids growing up. Lots of strange men coming and going, the possibility of illegal activities in the 'hood ... I also think it's not a good look between barrister's chambers and accounting firms on the main streets of cities. But I accept that, as long as there are men with unsatisfied sex drives and women willing to satisfy those drives (for money), brothels and prostitutes will exist.

Actually, on the topic of neighbours, I did notice when I lived in a townhouse with high windows and low fences that the woman behind me had lots of male visitors at all hours of day and night. My quality of life didn't drop and there was always something interesting to see when I glanced outside!

We are unique,
I can understand that prostitutes are accepted by feminists, because they are taking money from men.

There are also students in other countries who do become prostitutes to get money for their education, and many don't last, as a student.

If students are becoming prostitutes in this country to pay for their education, then certainly I have not heard of any academic saying anything about it.

As long as the money keeps flowing to them I would suppose, as I know of very few academics who don't have money as their highest priority.

However, you can look through these photograps of a prostitute taken over 10 years, to begin to understand the effects of prostitution.

http://www.hollywoodpolice.org/special_units/pic79_11.htm

*because they are taking money from men*

So vanna, do you think that women owe you a freebie,
if you tell them or lie to them, that you really love them?

Your photo parade is a bit ridiculous, quite frankly.
Have you ever seen the effect of drugs like ice on people,
if they are not prostitutes?

Have you ever heard of high class call girls, who charge
500O$ a night? Just ask Tiger Woods what he was paying.

Sorry, but those are not downtrodden victims and Tiger Woods
can well afford to pay, given that we Australians paid him
3 million $, just to play a game of golf here.

If its a win-win situation between two people, why is it
your business?

Yabby,
I would think that prostitution is more likely to lead to drugs or more likely to be involved in drugs than anything else.

Prostitution would become the business of a father if he learnt that his daughter had become a prostitute. Prostitution also becomes the business of men when they are regarded as nothing more than a source of money.

To a prostitute, men are just money, which is why so many feminists accept it, but the more prostitution there is, the more the belief that men are just money.

If he wants sex, then he has to pay her money.

If there are children, then he has to pay her money in the form of child support.

If there is a property settlement, then he has to pay her money.

I've seen plenty of prostitutes, and I've lived in some places where I was literaly surrounded by them. They were down the hall, they were standing at the doorway, and standing on every corner.

I would be quite proud to say that I've never been to a prostitute, because I would be nothing but money to that prostitute.

I would like to think that I am worth more than pieces of paper or a credit card.

vanna how much do you think you mean to the staff at the servo when you stop to get fuel on a trip?

The reason they are there and letting you fill your tank is because of your money not because of the deep personal value they place on you.

If my employer did not pay me I can't see my continuing to do that job.

None of that mean's that there is not more to either you, me or my employer than money and credit cards.

It does mean that unless we are in a very close community many of our interactions are on the basis of money rather than our personal characteristics.

R0bert

I would think a sex act is rather different and less mechanical than filling a petrol tank.

As I have mentioned previously, if he pays money, then it is not rape.

If he does not pay money, then it is rape, and he could be put in jail for many years.

Prostitution is 100% money, with no morality or ethics applied at all.

*I would think that prostitution is more likely to lead to drugs*

More likely Vanna, that drugs lead to prostitution, as its one
way to pay for the habit, when it costs hundreds a day.

You seem to hang out in some really rough places, are then amazed
when people are indifferent and unfriendly. Well that is just big
city living for you. They have done trials on this. Somebody
collapses in the streets of New York, nobody cares. Do the same
in a country town, everyone comes running.

Yes, prostitutes do it for the money. That does not mean that they
cannot like a client, some even fall in love with clients.

But with your attitude, I don't blame them, if they are rather
unfriendly towards you.

Yabby,
Your personalised remarks are not debate, they are personalised remarks.

You have not argued the "pros and cons" of prostitution, and most prostitutes are also con artists. They have no interest in the client, other than in the client's money, and if a man wants to be regarded as a walking wallet, he goes to prostitutes.

Money becomes sex - sex becomes money.

A prostitute will try and sell their body, but I have more pride than paying money to a prostitute for sex.

*and most prostitutes are also con artists*

Vanna, you make these massive, generalised statements, which only
show your contempt for and bias against prostitutes. For they
are simply not correct. There are all types in the industry,
as there are all types of plumbers, electricians, lawyers and any
other trade that you care to mention.

Prostitution is simply another way to make a living. Nobody
is forcing you to talk to them, have anything to do with them,
or give them a cent of the money that you seem to value above
anything else. Fair enough, then don't.

Fact is I know plenty of blokes who go down to the pub, and will
con any pretty girl with any lie they can think of, any compliment
that might do the trick, any amount of alcohol, to get into
her pants. You think that this is ethical or moral?

Fact is that there are any amount of women, who will marry a guy,
as they want a "provider", to raise their children.

All these things are based on basic biological reality and go
so far back, that you can even read up primatology data to find
the same or similar played out, in other species.

All I am saying is that I find the hooker industry, refreshingly
honest. No need for all the lies and all the deception. She gives
him pleasure, even if she doesent feel like it, he gives her
pleasure, in that she can go shopping or whatever. All very
straight forward and matter of fact. Why should I object to
that kind of honesty?

You Vanna, can keep every cent of your money in your pocket,
if that is so important to you. For me its a far bigger issue
that under the pretence of marriage, men can lose the house, the
car, the bank account, or anything else they might have worked
for, for 20 years. Today it does not even require marriage.
The courts can do as they please really, with somebody's assets.

THAT is a major issue, not some working girl being honest about-her-intentions.

Yabby,
He is paying her money so she can go shopping?

But he has to work to earn the money. Now exact who is getting the best deal out of that.

One can also ask is marriage or any female/male relationship is now a form of prostitution, after the complete feminist corruption of our Family Law system?

And it doesn't have to be marriage. Living together is now sufficient.

She can carry out infidelity and also run off with another man, but he has to pay her money in the form of a property settlement (and quite often he is left with just enough to keep him alive)

She can also abduct the children and take them with her, but he has to pay her money in the form of child support.

So he has to pay her money at all times, and no matter what happens. Very similar to prostitution I would think, and no wonder so many feminists do not oppose prostitution.

But you can approach a prostitute if she knows that you haven't got any money, and see how she reacts.

The man is just a walking wallet.

*But he has to work to earn the money.*

Err Vanna, if you ask her to provide a service, even if she
doesen't feel like it, she is doing the same.

Sure marriage has been turned into a business. Some certainly
exploit it, but not all. As with everything, there are
some very nice and some horrible men and women in this world.
It applies to both genders.

So you have options Vanna:

Find your soulmate, who doesent think like that.
Risk your assets to the whim of the courts.
Tie her up in legal agreements before you agree to
anything.
Get her drunk and lie through your teeth, as many blokes
do.
Have friends with benefits.
Pay for services rendered.
Go on a date with yourself.

You choose.

Yabby,
Someone could always spend their money on boats. In a feminist society, spending money on boats is quite possibly more satisfying than spending it on women of any type.

Why pay child support for children you rarely see. Why pay for a house you don't live in. In the case of a prostitute, why pay for the worry that you could be getting a problematic disease that could last for many years.

Vanna, whatever floats your boat. If boats are your thing, so
go for it. Its entirely your choice, each to their own.

What I stick up for, is peoples right to make choices, without
unneeded interference by Govt