Robert Hi.

"I also found it rather odd that a god's who's own son was supposedly celebate, who's longest running church is headed by suposedly celebate men should be concerned about sperm being wasted."

It makes you wonder why they stick their heads in many things.

Also, Carl was wrong about No female human being able to fertilize its self. I beg the differ, the virgin Mary seems to have pulled that one off with a little magicjuchjubvfec I mean miracle. She may have been the first transitional human female ever recorded.

Huzzy. "By the way I'm not Stezza- that's another user." How did you ever think that I would mistake you for her?

"Dig into any anti-Euthanasia motion and you will most often find some social conservative whose judgment stems out of distaste for promiscuity and eagerness to punish it whenever possible."

What good for the goose, must be good for the gander. I for one, do not want to go back to dark-ages.

Time changes, and what was good one day, the same thing will get altered by someone some where and because where human, the next new thing is just round the corner and it never stops.

50 years from now! What you and I think is right, by when, some new religion or change in once that we believed in, we too will be shocked at a change from a generation we haven't even meet.

And its coming down through the sands of time as we speak, our human history is full of what Iam talking about, and man nor women or anything can stop it.

Thats the human condition.

Here one day and gone the next.

This is all our destiny.

One time, everyone thought the earth was flat, then everyone knew that the earth was the centre of the universe, and just five minuets ago, a new law had been won by the only people that have been fighting for such a long time.

Times change my friends, and as we can clearly see, some change have taken too long.



All the best

TT

Dan S de Merengue, in no way do I want my specific views about an early term fetus to be extrapolated to post-partum situations. To do so is invoking slippery slope fallacy, and the composition fallacy.

(Separately, I think the voluntary euthanasia debate should be limited to debate about decisions by persons (or their powers of attorney or guardians) when they will be in the terminal stages of a terminal disease, not "the more feeble and frail in our society" or 18 month babies).

McReal,
You talk about early term fetuses, whereas before you were talking about late term fetuses. I’m only taking you at your word and following through to a logical conclusion.

Have a listen to yourself. You speak about children in this world who are ‘not properly wanted.’

Once the little ones are in the womb they are difficult to see and touch, but after a few weeks we can see and hear them with ultrasound. They have already come ‘into this world’.

I guess we'll just have to put Yabby and Robert into the "believers" basket. They "believe" a fetus, or "zygote" if ya wanna be adamant about the medical terminology, is NOT the beginning of an individual's life. That's their belief system. I put them in the same basket as the climate change deniers.

Of course the fact is an individual's life begins with the formation of that initial cell at conception. That's a simple medical and scientific fact. But the deniers are welcome to their belief systems.

The pro and anti abortion people are usually firmly stuck in the middle ages. The anti abortionists use their religious "beliefs" to form their views. And the pro abortionists use their own "beliefs" about when an individual's life begins in order to adopt the moral high ground by saying "well we're not "really" killing anything, after all it's not human, it's just a lump of yukky cells".

Any woman has the right to have an abortion for any reason whatsoever. But let's ditch the terminology TABOO and stop trying to pretend that we're destroying a thing that's NOT in it's initial stages of fertilised human life. Pro abortionists should drop their stupid and obviously inaccurate "belief" systems regarding abortion.

*They "believe" a fetus, or "zygote" if ya wanna be adamant about the medical terminology, is NOT the beginning of an individual's life.*

Rudy, you are free of course, either through stupidity or dishonesty,
to create all the strawman arguments that you wish. I shall stick
to what I actually claimed.

If you want to become emotional about a human organism, as distinct
from a person, that is your right too.

Darwin was correct on all this. Individuals of any species can
be created in far greater numbers, then can ever survive. The
limits are not in creating new organisms, but in the resources to
provide for them.

In our species, a woman has around 400 chances to have another
cute baby. Fact is, she cannot keep and provide for them all.

So what are our religious zealots up to? With the Catholic church
right in the forefront, they try to make women feel guilty about
abortion, with their placard waving, emotive language etc. Next
they claim that women are traumatised by guilt. Its a bit
like they do with religion. Brainwash the kiddies that their
story is true, make them feel guilty, then sell them a ticket to
heaven, which only they can seemingly provide.

Its extremely clever marketing, but it does keep the Vatican
coffers overflowing, as they live it up in Rome.

The posts attacking Dr Van Gend do not address the issue of abortion. Rather than attack him for enunciating his assessment of the situation, think about what he is saying and give your reasons for supporting abortion - if it is possible to justify the deliberate killing of another human being.

I would be interested to know whether those in favour of abortion would support the reintroduction of the death penalty. If not, you are being inconsistent and illogical. Why should it be acceptable to kill someone based on age? After all that is what abortion is - the killing of the very young. And, no, it is not just a clump of cells or part of the women's body it is an entirely separate person with its own consciousness.

What a sad country Australia has become. We have moved from defending the young, infirm and defenceless to becoming a society which wants to "disencumber" itself of these "burdens". All because of convenience.

Finally, a man has just as much right to express an opinion on abortion. It is not just a women's issue. It is a human issue. It affects everyone.