WOW - Constance!

To think I once accused you of having no substance - well, now I know you're full of it...

You have me a bit curious to know if you're a church attending Catholic. I have very good friends who are, although I've never heard them mention "taking over the world" (perhaps they're not in on the secret)
That's a big responsibility, you know. I hope you're up to it.

You are wasting your breath Poirot. It appears you cannot criticise the Catholic Church without some applied label - or being seen as virulent.

That is a common psychological manipulation to direct attention away from the thrust of the article which is the rise of Catholicophobia of which noone has yet explained exactly how this phobia is presenting itself other than criticism of calling the Catholic leadership to account for its actions over pedophilia.

If that sort of criticism is taboo then I don't know how the good people in the Church can ever hope to change the entrenched culture of secrecy. But thankfully it looks like the Catholic Church is waking up to itself and getting on with changing some of those historical obstacles regardless of some of the defensive rhetoric being bandied about.

I agree that there has been no substantial evidence of Catholicophobia provided either in the article or in the forum. I also think that the article makes quite a pointless argument. Making a victim of oneself does not achieve anything, and wastes energy that could be directed towards fixing the problems that cause the criticism.

I will say, though, that the Catholic Church bears the blame for the wrongs of a much wider group of people. In this thread alone, it has been blamed for Hitler. After a fruitless debate about whether or not Hitler counts, it was concluded that Catholics under Hitler were responsible for the Holocaust - a conclusion which ignores the hefty population of Lutherans in Germany who were equally responsible. It was argued (rather absurdly) that Hitler's highest cronies were Jesuits, which they weren't. I think it is safe to say that the Holocaust was more about Germany than about religion.

Then there's the sex abuse. A terrible crime that should be dealt with severely - but, once again, we shut our eyes to all offenders who aren't Catholic. The Anglican Church is also deeply troubled by the same problems - so much so that it brought down a Governor-General (who remains a bishop) - but there is no mention of that. Presbyterian missions, Lutheran leaders, Muslims and a great number of adherents to no faith whatsoever have abused children and been protected for it. But we are positioned to see it as a uniquely Catholic issue.

I think that, if whingeing Catholics would just shut up for a bit and get on with fixing their problems, we might all get a break from the finger-pointing, name-calling and insults. I would like that - it would give Catholics like me who actively work towards creating a better world (in accordance with our beliefs but accepting of others) a bit of a break.

I can only re-iterate: WOW Constance!

Where did I say I hated butterflies for Chrissakes?

And just how many posts did you devote to assassinating my character, was it 3? 4? Simply because I disagreed with your opinion? And threw in some humour about "butterflies and rainbows" if everyone believed as you. Was that it?

There is outright condemnation of the Catholic Church attempting to cover-up abuse of children - as there should be. No-one is ordering you to stop going to mass or holy communion. Simply that criminals be brought to justice - the church has no get out of jail free card - although it likes to think so.

Now go have a nice glass or 3 of communion wine and chill out.

Otokonoko
Unlike the thrust of this article, Catholics like your good self, are in the majority and are not tainted by some of the failures of the hieararchy - that is an important point - and is why I and many others don't subscribe to this 'ophobia' perspective. If the Catholic leadership had responsed immediately to child abuse claims we would not even be having this conversation.

Too many people, no matter their ideology or faith are quick to defend the indefensible should it taint their world view. The ideology and the actions are quite distinguisable and what we should be aspiring to is more honesty and transparency in these organisations - whether they be religions, governments or corporations. None should be unaccountable.

Pelican is entirely correct.

I have not been aware of any Catholicophobia nor rise in anti-Catholicism. I have been aware of the voices of the victims of paedophilia increasingly having the courage to come forward ... and I have been aware of the voices of many Catholics outraged at this crime being committed within the Church and worse, undoubtedly, covered up. One has to wonder just how prevalent this has been. The Church has also been seen to be too slow and too waffly, in its response ... indeed if it reacted at all - WWII atroctities come to mind. But this has always been the case, hasn't it? Unless of course, someone has rejected a tenet of the faith, or raised scientific evidence contrary to the Church's teaching. Then "WHAM"!!

Priests hold a unique place of trust within the Church. Unfortunately, this trust on occasion has been abused. I recall at boarding school that we dreaded going to confession to a certain priest. He appeared the epitome of what a priest should be. However, in the confessional he asked questions of graphic enquiry quite unrelated to one's confession. Although extremely discomforted and embarrased, we thought that this was his means of flushing out hidden sins of impurity. No other priest, however, acted this way. As adults we realised that this man was getting his 'jollies' from a naive group of school girls, who saw him as a person we were to respect, honour and defer to. Any non-cleric who asked of us, and dwelt on such intimate details, would have been seen for what he was.

Catholics know that Mary McKillop was excommunicated from the Church. They had been lead to believe that this was due to her insubordination. However, the truth is now emerging. She complained about a priest who was committing paedophilia. He was sent back to Ireland, there was a coverup and the issue rebounded badly upon herself. Now an 'excuse' is being made for McKillop's excommunication. The priest who performed it is now said to have been 'gaga' (I believe the term used). Another excuse?