Oh Gawd - we are back to the chattering classes again.

The implication that social justice can only be pursued legitimately by the poorest or most disadvantaged in society - hence the latte/chardonnay references - is a distraction from the real issues. If distraction is your weapon of choice in debate perhaps you need to revisit your own perspective and go in for some self-analysis.

Anyway Collins has failed to establish a connection between phobias and Catholicism IMO and merely seeks to push responsibility away from the Catholic hierarchy.

You might think Robertson is a git Constance, but in real life those who harbour and protect pedophiles are legally guilty. Think about why you believe some people should be protected from the legal consequences of their actions. Those asking for accountability are not the ones with the phobias but there you have it, on those grounds we will have to agree to disagree.

As a practising and believing Catholic, I understand where Paul Collins is coming from.

Reading the comments here and any where else (eg The Age blogs) there is no doubt that virulent anti-Catholicism has increased significantly in the past few years, especially amongst bitter lapsed Catholics (whatever the cause). And dare I say it, and I think this is what Pope Benedict alluded to with his references to Hitler and atheism. Hitler was a lapsed Catholic who spawned his form of totalitarianism arising out of his bitterness for Germany’s losing the WW1 and his hatred of Jews. As a person approaching my 3 score and ten, I was raised pre Vatican 2, in no way was I taught to hate Jews, on the contrary. So anti-semitism is not specifically Catholic in origin. From my reading of history, it arose out of ignorance – in many circumstances, some ‘Catholic’ countries to their shame were infected by it, as were other nations with other predominant cultures.

As a Catholic, I learnt that the Catholicism was made of ‘saints and sinners’, including a history of good popes, ineffective popes and bad popes and so on through out the ranks. Even Jesus had the same difficulties with his 12 apostles! The fact is that the way of life Christ preached was simple, but mighty hard to follow, because it means going against our basic selfish instincts which every man (and woman) has. To probably misquote Chesterton “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult, and left untried.”

cont.

Sadly, this has been reflected in the lives of some priests who have gone foully against Christ’s teachings and have abused children in their crime of pedophilia. The mishandling of this crime by those in the Church’s hierarchy for whatever reason is to be decried. Yet I would also note that most of these crimes appear to have been committed in the 70s and 80s. Hesitatingly and often inadequately the hierarchy has finally acknowledged their negligence and stupidity and has tried to do something to make amends for the ‘crimes of the fathers’ and try to reduce the chances of it happening again. Whilst I understand the genuine anger of those who thirst for justice, I fear for many others it is an excuse for anti-Catholic diatribes. The failure of a few to live the lives of trust, has caused not only serious harm to victims, but has damaged the reputation of the great majority who do try to live to the standards set by Christ. Further, it has to be said that pedophilia and child abuse of all sorts, is an unfortunate society wide problem with the incidence across society affecting all callings at every bit the same if not greater than the incidence amongst the clergy.

John Launder

Severin,

You don't like butterflies? Gee, that's sad. And you're gibbering about forced adoptions - what will you think of next? And what era are you living in?

Thanks for giving permission for my freedom. Oh, I'm so relieved about that. No mythologies in your life? You're life must be dull.
Woo, another hardcore reasonable person. Funny, you don't come across as very reasonable to me, nor very happy.

You're commenting on an article about anti-Catholicism and you're telling me not to have a say because you disagree, and use the old anti-religionist's mantra of spurious usage of the proselytizing accusation defence method when it doesn't apply. Is that because you have nothing to sell and nor should the Tykes. Because we have the advantage? Therefore we'd knock you guys over. You just have to accept that life isn't always fair (I know), life is like that. Didn't anyone tell you that it doesn't work on-line? Because I think you may be afraid of the Real Conversion. You should have checked the Vatican Website first if you are that paranoid. The CC isn't that techy, you see. Not yet anyway. Give us time, we'll get there soon enough, and become the religious equivalent of Microsoft (we have high aspirations) or at least Apple. Then we'll buy MS out and really TAKE OVER THE WORLD. And then maybe even the acolytes could have a go of conversion rites on-line with the coming Papa Technology, and then maybe even the Deadly Parishioners (watch out for them!)could have a go. We're gunna get real BIG. Be prepared. The truth may seem too confronting for some, I know, I understand. I'll hold your hand if you like while you try and absorb it all. Don't be afraid, I'm not the Pope, you see. Are you like one of those poor buggers in the UK who find him so SCARY. Really, it's okay now, calm down.

/Cont...

Severin,

Really, I'll try not to convert you. Oh, wait a minute, do you think I'm a priest? Sorry, meaculpa. I know, you're confused, but I do understand how it is being a Rationalist, or was it Reasonablist? It must be tough. Really, it's just about justifying or reminding some Westerners of the intrinsic importance that Catholicism has had in the making of Western Civilisation, that I recommend you to think about. If there is something you wish to debate or deny, tell me then. We do also have the capacity of reason, you know. If you're either an ingrate or just not into Western aesthetics and traditions, I guess you're just one poor old soul who's missing out. Guess you better just stay in the office and work like a heathen on Christmas and all the other Holydays.

I know, you're confused, but I do understand what it must be like being a Rationalist, or was it Reasonablist? It must be tough. Really, it's just about justifying or reminding some Westerners of the intrinsic importance that Catholicism has had in the making of Western Civilisation that I recommend you to think about. That's it baby! It really isn't proselytizing, you know. Believe me. Have faith. If there is something you wish to debate or deny, tell me then. We do also have the capacity of reason, you know - we're not always living in the wonderland of fairies. If you're either ungracious or just not into Western aesthetics and traditions, I guess you're just one poor old soul who's missing out, or just smug dismissive of stuff you don't wish to hear. Guess you better just stay in the office and work like a heathen on Christmas and all the other Holydays.

I guess the anti-mythology people would have desires to even ban the pulling of chicken wish bones or blowing out of candles or even sending get well wishes to your aged aunts.

Glory to you mate.

.../

Severin,

Correction: It's "PAPA TECHNOLOGY", Papa Technology I know just won't do it.