'mikk: << Am I the only one getting a bit disturbed by runner's ongoing obsession with animal sex? >>'

I would be more worried about your high priests endorsement of it.

""reason without faith misses out on rich fields of investigation" (Gordo Pollo, Friday, 2 July 2010 4:52:38 PM). How, Gordo? Can you provide an effective argument to support this?

As you will have noticed I spoke about the origin of our notion of a person. I'll leave it to you McReal to do some research - I would be fascinated to see what you come up with.

As regards other fields of investigation we could look at a concept like creation ex nihilo. This led to the possibility of such amazing works as De Ente et Essentia (amazing for metaphysicians anyway).

@ Glen. Ethics concerns rightness and wrongness - how we get somewhere is important, it's not just the getting there that counts. Why? Fundamentally because it concerns who we become through our actions as moral agents.

@ McReal. Ethics is much, much broader than sexual ethics. Only 2 of the 10 Commandments touch on sex and only 20 of some 1,000 pages of the Catholic Catechism deal with that subject (and those that do are generally very positive since it is regarded to be a gift from God and a means of sanctification (according to a meaning inscribed in our bodies by God - yes you can argue with that one all you like but I merely refer to how Catholics approach this important subject).

@ Suzieonline. Please explain the connection between molesting priests and how that precludes religion informing ethical debate? Or do you simply mean to say that some contributors to the discussion might be rank hypocrites?

Richie 10, "Free will" is denied by some Christian branches or denominations, particularly those who follow the so-called Reformers, Luther and Calvin. They determined that the human will, instead of being master of its own acts, is rigidly predetermined in all its choices throughout life i.e. predestined/predestination.

Others describe "free will" as a combination of chance and determination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#Free_will_as_a_combination_of_chance_and_determination

John Locke denied that the phrase "free will" made any sense. Similarly, David Hume discussed the possibility that the entire debate about free will is nothing more than a merely "verbal" issue. These views may be tied to and give credence to "theological_noncognitivism"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism

Gordo Pollo - I agree that "Ethics is much, much broader than sexual ethics", yet sexual ethics is a subset, of course, that still requires refining in some circles.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1maMhmutTzw/R6t63tglWLI/AAAAAAAAAGg/xDdPJrhe1ow/s1600/normal_science_vs_faith.jpg

Oh dear! The god brothers have dropped the ball once again. Religion for man-kinds development has served its perilous journey and nothing more can be squeezed out of it than it already has. Now its just a recruitment drive to support its own means. CJ.lol watch out bloke! Polly wants a cracker has a black-belt in origami. Arr.....runner! The joy I get for reading what ever it is you mean. ( I have not stopped laughing since this post began )

There are two types of humans in this story.

1. Is the adult child.
And 2. IS THE ADULT.

I wonder who is who in the human zoo? lol.

Evolution show us that extinction does happen in the same species and religion just happens to be one of life's casualties as more modern humans takes its play one more step forward as its always done.

Public schools need ethics, not religious education.

And how true.

Say NO to brain-washing!

TTM.

Dear McReal,
If you have followed any of my posts you would know that I believe in and follow Jesus, who came to save our soul and set the captive free, and it was the religious people of his day who demanded that Pilate kill him because he claimed to be the son of God. The Definition I have learned of soul is mind, will, and emotions. You do not have to look far to see the result of the curse as sickness and poverty are part of the curse. The only answer to take the curse of your life is to believe in the revealed Word of God, Jesus the Christ, born of a virgin, born in Bethlehem, a prophet like Moses, rejected by his own people, the Jews, betrayed by one of his followers for money, was tried and condemned, was silent before his accusers, struck and spat on by his enemies, was mocked and insulted, died by crucifixion, suffered with criminals whom he prayed for, was given vinegar and gall, others cast lots for his clothes, no bones where broken, died as a sacrifice for sin (an archery term meaning 'to miss the mark'), rose from the dead, and is now at Gods right hand. All prophesied in the old testament and fulfilled in the new testament. Paul of Tarsus said to 'be perfect' as Christ is perfect. This used to bother me until I received the understanding that he was talking about maturity not the human understanding of perfection. Jesus said unless God builds us we labor in vain. So if God is working in us to will and to do his good pleasure, stop striving to be good and pray "your will be done in my life as it is in heaven" as Jesus taught his disciples in what we now call the Lords prayer.
Regards Richie 10

Richie10, as you quoted, the Lords Prayer refers to the Father's will, although a lot of the older versions do not refer to "in my life" as you do, which seems to reflect a personalisation that seems to be current Christian focus

" ... thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven ..."
. ...... or ..
"... your will be done, on earth as in heaven ... "

A key issue is the various views on concepts such as "free will" that makes uniform teaching in a school setting difficult and fraught, hence it virtually makes universal teaching to those of different denominations unethical.

Regards, and best wishes.