“Professor Manne argues that our response to asylum seekers reflects an underlying racism, particularly towards Muslims.”

Professor Manne and others who think that racism is a factor in the desire to have our borders protected from illegal arrivals are complete idiots. Our borders should be protected against all people trying to enter illegally, irrespective of race or colour. The fact that our ignorant, gutless politicians are also idiots not knowing the true definition of racism (i.e that one race is better or worse than another) means that the likes of Manne can frighten them into failing to do what is their duty – the protection of Australia’s borders.

And, by the way, Islam is not a race.

Having spent many years in East Africa and Madagascar where the very distinct Indian populations clearly considered themselves superior to the locals, I can relate to:
"there are few countries where class, status and caste infuse the social order to a greater degree than India. As a consequence, any Indian outrage must be tempered by events in its own backyard.

Every time asylum seekers are mentioned, and no matter how many times it's been pointed out that their arrival is NOT illegal, out come the same old "protect our borders" and "illegal arrivals" bleats. Yawn. Thanks, Leigh. You're starting to sound like Scott Morrison, opposition spokesparrot on immigration. I suppose John Howard showed conclusively that if you just keep repeating simplistic lies, eventually everyone will believe them.

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Ooops. I just fell asleep with my face on the keyboard. Must have been bored out of my wits by the matchless predictability of it all.

I hope your analysis is right, Dr Ahmed.

The worry is that ethnocentric prejudices are so easily whipped up by sensationalist media and unscrupulous and cynical politicians from both major parties obsessed with short-term electoral advantage.

Government policies and provsions have never fully recovered from Hansonite approaches adopted by the Howard government The current government has not undone many of its policies.

As for the media, even articles in the broadsheets continue from time to time to use terms like "illegal" when referring to undocumented asylum seekers arriving by boat.

Slobodon,
The one thing you said I agree with and that is it is boring. It is boring to contiually have to correct the likes of you.

It IS illegal to enter Australia without a proper visa. We do not detain those who enter legally as it is against OUR laws. You had best check that out.

Secondly, The author and yourself continually try to make out there are problems where none, or little, exist. General opposition to the 'illegal' boat people has nothing to do with racism. It relates to gate crashing and allowing those with money to gain advantage over those who do not. We see the illegals as shonksters who lie, cheat and buy there way here and impose themselves on us, uninvited.

The attacks on Indian students likewise was exposed as attacks for robberry purposes, not racial attacks by anglo Aussies as was first indicated. One positive was that it also exposed an immigration scam.

The wearing of turbans and the burka are cultural issues and law when riding cycles.

People such as yourself and the author are an ongoing problem in trying to promote racism as an issue.

Tanveer, I think you're on to a marketing opportunity with Burbans. Might I also suggest Moccals? Sandal-moccasins - should go down a treat in the Western suburbs!

So you think terrorism has increased prejudice towards Muslims.
You are so right.
We definitely DO NOT WANT to be blown apart by bombs these people have used inthe past. They have no sense of gratitude or want to make Australia their new home. They are part of their covert war against the infidels.They wont stop until they have destroyed us and taken possession of what remains.
Dont believe me? them go and listen to the openly voiced declarations of their imams. Even the failed would-be New York bomber defiantly said it was all about war. When asked by the presiding judge wasnt he concerned about the loss of life of innocent children and women replied very honestly and forthrightly:This is war." Full marks to him for his honestly, and honestly, none of us want the insides of our children and aged ones splattered all over the streets.What can we do to save ourselves? Should we all love them and forgive them their blood-lust?
You can. I for one cant stand them.
If you say all arent like them. Some are innocent and opposed to their bigoted hatred. OK that's fine. These peace-loving Muslims should stand with us shoulder to shoulder and even share our outrage and prejudce against those who would take our lives.

socratease

Banjo, Firstly I'm wondering where in my post I mentioned racism.

Secondly, you might like to check THIS out, on the website of Australia's Parliamentary Library: http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/BN/sp/AsylumFacts.pdf

If you could try to open your mind to facts which contradict your current mindset, that would be a great leap forward, especially when you read this as early as page 3:

Quote: Asylum seekers irrespective of their mode of arrival, like others that arrive in Australia without a valid visa, are classified by Australian law to be ‘unlawful non-citizens’. However, the term ‘unlawful’ does not mean that asylum seekers have committed a criminal offence. There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa. Unquote

Let's run that through again, shall we, for the slow learners: "There is NO offence in Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa".

If you can bring yourself to read the rest of the 18 pages, you might learn a lot more. Then again, given the track record, perhaps not.

Slobodom,
Unlawful means illegal.

These people are acting illegally. i.e. contrary to our law.

If you look up the UN site about asylum seekers , you will find that they state that asylum seekers do NOT have right to enter a country illegally. They must comply with a countries laws.

Because we are good blokes and more than reasonable we have undertaken not to charge people with an offence IF they claim asylum. But they remain as illegal entrants until we decide to a) grant them asylum or b) deny them entry and deport them.

The only reason we can detain people is if they do not have a valid visa.

You want to avoid the word illegal because you want to promote them as being poor, innocent sods who are homeless, which is crap.

They have flown to Malaysia for which they need a passport, either genuine or bought on black market, them pay smugglers far more than the cost of air fare to Aus to enter over the back fence. Then destroy any documentation enroute and proceed to tell lies to our officials.

They are not people of good moral standing.

The young men should be home helping to fix their problems instead of our young men fighting for them. No they come here to hide.

Muslims would advantage their acceptability within Australia, if they renounced terrorism rather than excusing it.

The last thing tolerant Australia needs is to import intolerance. Two examples
- the intolerance some Muslims have of other Muslims, as per http://www.middleeasttransparent.com/spip.php?page=article&id_article=10110&lang=en

and

- the intolerance of some Australian Muslims towards apostate Muslims, as per http://www.hizb-australia.org/hizbut-tahrir/draft-constitution (article 7c)

Racial prejudice is completely unacceptable.
Deep concern about some religious behaviour is not unreasonable.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10583#174615
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10583#174590

Slobodon, typical, xenophobic, racist, bigoted, hate speech. The Loony, Left, hate, loathe & despise white people.

Do Australia a favour, go back to Yugoslavia & take all the Muslims with you.

Here's a history lesson for you, Multiculturalism was invented by CARS, Communist, Anarchist, Radical, Socialists to "white ant" Capitalism from within.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

http://www.acrawsa.org.au/

http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/

http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/cs/perspective235.asp

http://www.cruelhoax.ca/#top

What Australia desperately needs right now is for all of the asylum seekers to be deported immediately, so that immigration detention centres like "Curtin & Baxter", can be re-used as Re-Education camps for all the CARS who have infected the Red/green/getup/labour coalition.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10583#174594

tonyf, please explain, but Pauline got 49% of the 1st preference votes in what was considered to be one of the safest, blue collar, ALP seats in the country. Add to that the number of people who silently agreed with her but remained faithful & voted #1 for liberal, labour, national, etc, & the number of voters who were really on her side, adds up to at least 60% to 80% of the population.

Your extreme views represent between 1% & 4% of the vote. Hopefully ASIO will be dealing with your kind soon.

A very good article that triggers the usual reaction in this country. Aussie just can't stand to have there prejudice pointed out to them. At heart i am more inclined to say through the years i have come to see it more as ignorance or bigotry.
For some reason we just can not accept that the way we have treated the indigenous peoples of this country over the past 200+ years is appalling. You can use all the justifications you like but we did what we did and continue to be intolerant of the cultural differences.
White Australians will often laugh at a rasist joke about black peoples or happily forward an email without thinking or considering the way they are actually helping to spread hate and ignorance through the community for the real racists. This extends to many cultures that are different to our own. Yes, well you might say we give the "POMS" heaps and they take it well but here inlies the big difference.
Giving the Yanks or poms or for that matter most European countries a razz is less problematic as they were on the whole also part of the systematic oppression and destruction of indigenous cultures around the world. For one moment consider what the Spanish did to South America, the British and French to North America and Arabia as well as the many countries involved in Africa. These betrayals on the whole are barely a generation old in many cases and the hurt runs deep. If Croatia and Serbia can't forgive over things that happened hundreds of years ago why should white European's be forgiven for things that only began to resolve 50 years ago.
We need to take on some serious self analysis of our actions and attitudes. Racism may not be the motivation but we are susceptible to the fear of the unknown within our society and resist the possibility that some of the problems we have with integration and social change in this country lay with us.

Dr Eva Sallis points out:

"People arrive by boat not because what
we offer is attractive, but because what
pushes them to flee is unyielding.
The term "illegal immigrant" is a cruel
and dishonest manipulation of terms. No
one can be labelled "Illegal" without their
case being heard in a court, and no asylum
seeker in Australia and in the Pacific has
access to the courts to plead their case.

It is accepted under our migration laws that
an unauthorised arrival who then claims asylum
has a right to do so and to have his or her
claims heard and if found to be a refugee, to
find safe haven here..."

Dr Sallis claims that the current policy is a
return to the "White Australia" policy of the
past. That the purpose is to keep out refugees
from Iraq, Iran, Palestine and Afghanistan,
in other words Muslims and MIddle Eastern people.
Calling these people "Illegal immigrants," is
a joke. They are not immigrants, nor illegal.
They are also not "queue jumpers," as there is
no queue. She suggests that we substitute the
words "Jew" or "Black," for "queue jumpers,"
and actually take a look at what is really being
said.

Anyway, I highly recommend you read the entire
article:

http://www.australiansagainstracism.org/code/resources06.html

It may give you a different perspective from the media
spin.

Foxy - laws change in reaction to social and current sentiment, clearly there are a lot of Australians who disagree with our laws and want them changed. Waving a law from a different item in our faces or a UN resolution (unbinding) eventually pisses people off and they stop being polite because the finger waggers ceased to be polite years ago.

The fact that politicians react to the masses, the majority of sentiment must tell you that the finger waggers and bleeding hearts are a minority, loud I grant you, but not mainstream.

nairbe, maybe you're the one out of step here. I'm from a family of recent immigrants and do not subscribe to your widely cast guilt - it's your problem, not mine or the other recent arrivals.

Why do you think we have to carry your load like this? When my family came here, there was no indication that they would be handed this hairshirt to wear.

The people you talk about, do not help themselves, so fine, prop them up with the usual welfare and services and let them be - they don't want anything more from life than handouts - in a free society that's fine. But don't ask us, people who came here from very tough backgrounds to accept their laziness or lack of work ethic as our problem - it is not, it is their problem. If you want it to be yours, good for you.

It's not racist, I don't care what group behaves like that, my response is the same .. get off your pud, get over the wrongs of 200 years ago and move on.

We did not bring the wrongs of our country here, our hatred of whoever did it, of whomever took my family's lands.

Harden up people .. if we keep pouring services to people who have learned to expect it, we are rewarding them for expecting more.

Like a lot of new settlers, Amicus chooses to remain ignorant of the history of this country. Folk like Amicus come here and refuse to see how they personally benifit from the disposession and marginalisation of Australia's original people.

This ignorance give rise to the failure to understand the ongoing effects of the stuctural racism that continues to impact on Indigenous Australian lives. Check out the Medical journal of Australia, they acknowledge the disparity of basic cardiac health care between what Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians recieve, based, it appears on racial lines.

If you don't like the history and repercussions of Australia's colonialist past, and the hairshirt that accompanies it, I am sure you can find a country more suitable to your tastes.

Australia alway was, always will be, Aboriginal land.

I'm beginning to wonder if I read the same article as everyone else. My understanding of the article is that it argues:

a) that there IS prejudice in Australia, but this is no different from any other society.

b) that a lot of what we attribute to 'prejudice' or 'racism' is not, in fact, triggered by either.

c) that much of the inequity in our society - for example with indigenous communities - stems not from racial prejudice, but from grand designs that just don't work.

With this in mind, I agreed with much of what I read in the article. I think we would be fools to deny that there is prejudice in our society, but we would also be fools to beat ourselves up over it. Prejudice is everywhere, in every society I have ever lived in or visited. It is no worse in Australia. We just like to talk about it and feel bad about ourselves.

As for the illegality of asylum seekers - there is a difference between 'illegal' and 'criminal' activity. It is illegal to exceed the speed limit, but that is not a crime. That asylum seekers are 'unlawful non-citizens' indicates that their activity is outside the law (illegal) regardless of whether or not it is a crime. Whether or not they deserve to be here, or whether or not this law is just and fair is another debate - one I will try very hard not to join.

Foxy says Dr Eva Sallis’s article: “May give you a different perspective from the media spin”

A different perspective!

-- "People arrive by boat not because what we offer is attractive, but because what pushes them to flee is unyielding”
--“The term 'illegal immigrant' is a cruel and dishonest manipulation of terms”.
-- “The current policy is a return to the ‘White Australia’”

With all due respect, Foxy – none of it is different.
This is the same old spin we have been getting from "advocates" –both in and out of the media, for decades.

And the subtext to Dr Eva Sallis’s article is also, NOT NEW : “There are some issues which are beyond the ken of the plebes... let them eat cake,instead ”

Formerslag: are you on day release?

Tanveer Ahmed is a real thinker. He sees the hype put forward by the left - pretending to speak on his behalf (being from a minority) - but he knows from his own experience how miniscule the levels of racism are in a great liberal western democracy like Australia.

We have imported hordes of racists and bigots and homophobes in the cultures of the third world. To free them of their medieval ignorance and fear of change is what we all need to focus on.

Banning the burqa would be a good start, I feel sick knowing that whites have been the only in history to fight against slavery (the rest just accept it as the norm and only don't want it happening to their particular clan) and yet here we are tolerating this sickening value system that promotes gender aparthied.

"the hurt runs deep" Nairbe :)

Mate.. you wrote your piece in a way which is suggestive of "Those whites...yuk" as you outlined a few bits of history which seem to make your implied point.

I totally agree with the principle.. that "when one group of humans oppresses another,..it creates long standing hurt"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe

Have a look at the start date.. 1299....

Then have a look at the finish date.... 1699

That's 400 years of oppresssion.. of "taxing" conquered countries ("white" countries) 500 little boys.. as a tribute to be trained as mercinaries/elite soldiers (call them the WAFEN SS of their day) for the Turkish sultan.

Bottom line here.. we are talking about 'Humanity'...not 'white' prejudice and racism.

People are not dull...they do have memories of what was done to them, and by whom. They also know an ideology which has core values which are an inherent threat... Have a look at surah 9:29
http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe009.htm

by all means form your own opinion.. (read the whole chapter if you like)

But have a look at the next verse (9:30).. see if you see any reason to be concerned about a 'large number of people of that faith' coming to predominantly Christian Australia.

I've reversed that verse (9:30) and made the Muslims the 'cursed' ones and the Christians the 'author' so to speak and shown it to Muslims.. asking "DOes this look like hate speech to you"? and invariably they reply YES! (when they recover from the shock of the idea of someone showing them such a statement.) So... why should we feel any less threatened by such things ?

The crazy thing about the article is that it once again (yawn) equates the 'religion' Islam with 'race'..... that's not rational.

Have a peek at this :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

Look at the 'date' on which this attack happened..... ring any bells of something that happened in 2001 in New York?

Every year on that date..I stand at the State library with a sign..making this point.. makes for some interesting discussions.

Amicas, fantastic that things are working out well for you, good on ya. Don't know what you were reading in to what i wrote but i made no references to welfare or burdens of guilt. The situation does not require anyone to feel guilty just to take an honest view of the way we behave socially toward cultures that we perceive so differently that we don't understand them. Guilt is negative and creates the very welfare burden you speak of.
You make a very poor assumption that the "sit on my bum and feel sorry for myself" welfare sector is the way Aboriginal peoples live. They don't. Most of the families i know are very hard working and committed to the community. The welfare issue is a socio-economic one that spans all peoples that live in this country. That is another matter all together that runs deep into mental and community health as well as issues like education and child welfare.
The main point is the way we see and treat other countries, migrants and Aboriginal peoples. We are patronising at best. Look at the way we have dealt with many of our near neighbours over the past decade. We are often rude and insensitive to cultural matters in negotiations and representations. Things are improving but the constant use of boat people to gain political leverage is pathetic.
Perhaps when you have achieved some of your personal goals in life and have time to reflect on the values of humanity you will begin to understand that the world wasn't created for you. We are all part of this land and share it together, we don't have to rape and pillage it for our selfish gain and treat those who are different with suspicion and ridicule.

Tanveer Ahmed is in no position to lecture Australians on prejudice, while his religion is the world's most prejudiced belief-system.

As noted by Mark Durie http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2009/12/greatest-recitation-of-surat-al-fatiha.html

"To be genuine and effective, reconciliation between Muslims and those they refer to as 'People of the Book' (Jews and Christians), requires that Al-Fatihah and its meaning be discussed openly. That devout Muslims are daily declaring before Allah that Christians have gone astray and Jews are objects of divine wrath, must be considered a matter of central importance for interfaith relations. This is all the more so because the interpretation of verse 7 which relates it to Christians and Jews is soundly based upon the words of Muhammad himself. As Al-Fatihah is the daily worship of Muslims, and represents the very essence of Islam itself, the meaning of these words cannot be ignored or glossed over."

and from Sahih Bukhari, Book 12, Number 723 http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/012.sbt.html

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever does not recite Al-Fatiha in his prayer, his prayer is invalid."

Ginx: << Formerslag: are you on day release? >>

LOL. Reading through most of the posts in this thread is like walking into a One Nation group therapy session.

Same old, same old. If this thread and other discussions about 'racism' at OLO are anything to go by, Tanveer Ahmed seriously underestimates the level of racist and xenophobic bigotry in Australian society.

One interesting point that is evident in both the article and some comments is the particular racism towards Aborigines that is often displayed by more recent immigrants.

Foxy,
The present government recently stopped the processing of Afghans and Sri Lankans for permanent residency.

This is clearly racial prejudice so why are not the Australians Against Racism organising street demos about that? What does Dr Eva Sallis have to say about it? Are these people not fleeing genocide and persecution, as we have been told? Where are the asylum advocates?

According to our resident constitutionalist on OLO, Mr Gerrit, (see other thread on Asylum seekers) It is unconstitutional unless we deny visa processing to all Afghans, including those that arrive by air. This would apply to all Sri Lankans as well. So where doe this leave us?

Is the Government racist and is it currently acting outside our constitution?

Racism or Prejudice?
We are continually accused of being a racist society. But is it racism? Or plain old Aussie prejudice! For instance, Chinese restaurants dishing up stray cats as rabbit or chicken! This old tale kept me off Chinese food for years! Aussie ex-P.O.Ws from ww 2 refusing to buy Japanese cars because of their treatment. Is this racism? If so, what is colour prejudice? If you're white you're right, if you're brown hang around, if you're black get back. This is a determining factor in Aboriginal society as well. Is this racism? And if you're Islander (Mud) get back even further! The division between Full-Blood and caste Aboriginal People is legend. An issue not discussed in the public domain. Almost like a taboo subject ! But a fact of life. You won't hear Michael Mansell or Marcia Langton talk about this. A Full-Blood will accept and trust a white person before they would a yella fella or mixed blood Aboriginal they know will exploit them. Is this racism? Torres Strait Islanders are derided by us. Is this racism? This is one reason why they are seeking to annul the marriage "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders". On the grounds of non consummation. It was a marriage in name only. Regarding and involving easier and continued access to funding. A marriage of convenience so to speak. (alb c. 9/07) (again!)Is this statement relevant? for more info on this and other issues, and in operation again, www.whitc.info

Belly, you triggered a thought that disproves all this racial prejudice rubbish, by the majority of Oz.

For the last 60 years, that I know of, the descendants of most the Pacific islanders, brought in as near slaves, to work in the cane fields, have been comfortably mixing in the mainstream Oz society.

A mate of mine, who's father was full blood melanesian, was a RAAF fighter pilot, who flew in the Korean war. It was education, & ability, not background, that controlled pilot training selection.

Throughout Queensland, & northern NSW you find these people in all walks of life, with no prejudice I have noticed.

This, to my mind, proves it is how you, [& your family perhaps], act that dictates your acceptance by others.

GINXYYYyyyyyyy.. ur back :) hug hug... a good one liner too....

Followed up few posts later by 'the green yapping puppy'... with all the wisdom of an old boot.

One Nation eh ? :) yeah yeah.

I note that recitation of Al Fatihah.. the Quran doesn't actually have the prejudicial 'like the Jews' or 'like the Christians'.....in that section... but it does have far worse insults and racist bigotry in surah 9:30... but.. you all know that don-cha'

Ginxy..any constructive thoughts about Carbon Trading? (see other thread)

Speaking of racist bigotry from Christian nutters:

<< Burka ban MP accused of chasing bigot vote

Updated Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:36pm AEST

New South Wales MP Reverend Fred Nile has introduced a private members bill to the state's parliament, calling for people to be banned from wearing full face covering in a public place.

The Christian Democrat succeeded in getting his bill debated before parliament last night after having it rejected in May.

The Summary Offences Amendment (Full-face Covering Prohibition) Bill 2010 would make it an offence to wear a face covering while in a public place, punishable by a fine of $550.

The bill says a person's religious or cultural belief would not constitute a reasonable excuse for covering their face, although places of worship would be exempt.

Greens MP John Kaye says the bill is directly targeted at Muslim women wearing burkas.

He says if Reverend Nile was serious about addressing the issue he would be working with the Muslim community not introducing legislation to ban the garment. >>

Full story at http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/23/2934503.htm

Yeah, Islam's a religion rather than a 'race', but such a proposal is certainly a dog-whistle to racists who don't want to share Australia with brown-skinned people who are culturally different to them.

Hi AL, Yes know of the 9/11 reference to Viena it's a good one.
On reading back i see what you mean, i have offered and inferred that this is all a white problem. Certainly at this point in history it centres more around white culture but by no means restricted to. It more (for want of a better description) is an issue that lays with the ruling culture of the era in history. We (as in all people and cultures) don't have much trouble with hate and mistrust.
I do though still feel that the indigenous cultures predominately of the southern hemisphere have been dealt a pretty poor deal over the last few hundred years.
The references to Surah 9:29 are ugly, but heavily interpretable as is the Bible. I know this is of a different ilk, but Jesus did say for the rich man to give away his wealth to enter the kingdom of heaven. I haven't noticed too many doing so.
I know i am not very articulate, unlike the PhD's on this form i am a mere tradesman with a piddly Diploma. I just feel we are so overly influenced by societies norm's and are scared into seeing things the way the media and business wants us to with big ad campaigns and editorial decisions based on business interests and political influence that we forget to think for ourselves and consider what it is we are doing and why we do it.

cj, you see some of the "recent immigrants" don't subscribe to the rascist way aboriginals are separated out of mainstream Australia.

As long as they get "special treatment" for being or claiming to be aboriginal, they are under a racist system.

When they are integrated into mainstream, by just wiping out all the special treatment, then they can hold their heads up and be Australian.

until then, they are an underclass in need of special treatment, and they get told regularly they need it, we get the gratuitous sympathy and grovelling from the likes of yourself and other bleeding hearts.

They need to join the rest of Australia and then in time will work it out - why on earth do you all whine and squeal when ever anyone says they should not be treated as special

Surely if you are separating them, by race, for special treatment because they cannot get the act together, that's racist .. is it not?

I don't share you collective guilt just because I am Australian (recent arrival or not, I am Australian) why should all people coming here have to kowtow to this stupid view you all have that a section of the community needs to be separated by race for a leg up?

Who is the racist here? You who want them separated by race, or me who wants them treated the same as everyone else?

As long as you treat a group differently, they will be different. There's no end to this until this racism stops, there will be pain for those who make money out of it, who have become comfortable in it and the industry around it who use it to berate the rest of the community and when ever anyone questions it - you call them a racist.

Times have changed cj, and you're pov is no longer acceptable, particularly to all the "newer" Australians who feel no reason to join your group guilt trip.

Hi Nairbe... hey don't put yourself down mate :) thus far your posts have been a total delight.. specially when you seem to agree with me! *smile*

You can be my standby therapist when I'm emotionally bleeding from the bites and scratches of CJ and Pericles :)

Seriously.. glad ur here.. a fresh name and a fresh personality.

Oh..ur a TRADY? :) Then (if you've watched Frazier) you will be driving a new E class Merc right ? haha.. there was this episode where Niles tries to name drop to the plumber with his bum crack hanging out... "Oh.. I'll just go down to the car park..it's in my 7 series beamer"...the plumber replies casually "Oh.. I used to have one of them..then I traded up to an E series" or something like that.
I love that show.

WHITE POWER STRUCTURES.. the thing I find most repulsive about these various attempts to undermine them..is that until I saw this kind of stuff I had no 'white' consciousness.. I just had 'human' consciousness. Now..... it seems I'm part of this 'white' privileged 'race' which must be destroyed at all costs by all means.
The man who wrote that article, ironically, is Jewish. (But also a marxist)

AMICUS.. exactly (all you said) but beware mate.. you will be quickly lumped into the 'fundy, fringe hatemongering christian'mob by a couple of beloved OLO contrubutors here :) (even though you might or might not be a man of faith)

NEWBIES.
For those who are new here.. for full on entertainment value.. keep your eye on any post by GINX.. she is a colorful character...witty and sharp tongued. Severin (fractelle) of course.....GINXs mini me.. has not yet gone completely to the dark side :) (they both hate my guts :)
If you see my nick.. Ginx or Serverin might be close by..But if you like intellectual, well structured bile.. look at Pericles, a lovable character, though a tad irrational (hmm no.. VERY irrational) at times. He delights in tearing down a posters argument..does a good job sometimes and can be quite informative.

Amicus <"As long as they get "special treatment" for being or claiming to be aboriginal, they are under a racist system."

Can you list for me the 'special treatment' you think Aboriginals receive Amicus?

If they do get any special treatment, then it sure isn't helping the bulk of them is it?

Aboriginals in Australia have a life expectancy 17 years less than other Australians.
For all age groups of Australian people under 65 years of age, Aboriginals are twice as likely to die than others.

Aboriginal babies are twice as likely to be of a low birthweight than others, and three times more likely to die in infancy.

Chronic diseases, communicable diseases, mental health problems, and disabilities are all significantly higher amongst Aboriginal people than any other Australians.

They are far less likely than other Australians to own their own home or car, or to be in employment. They are over represented in jails and are far more likely to be homeless.

Yep, it sure sounds like they are doing famously with all this special treatment doesn't it?
Gee I hope the rest of us get it as good as they do soon.....

At least Amicus is honest, I suppose. It has always struck me that economic immigrants to Australia are often among those Australians who are least sympathetic to Indigenous people in their adopted home, despite the fact that contemporary Australia was built entirely on the dispossession of Aboriginal people from their land and their relegation to the fringes of Australian society. Every non-Indigenous Australian is the beneficiary of that sorry history of brutality and discrimination, whether or not they recognise it.

While there has been some improvement since about the 1970s, no amount of well-intentioned government policy and legislation has had much of a positive effect on the lives of Indigenous Australians, who still cop the brunt of racism against them - most graphically in the kinds of demographic and health statistics to which suzeonline referred.

Without the expropriation of Aboriginal lands and the relegation of Indigenous people to the status of an underclass in the society that subsequently and relatively recently developed, economic immigrants like Amicus would not have an "Australia" to emigrate to. I think that the bigotry they express is a way of avoiding acknowledging that they are the beneficiaries of gross injustice and some of the most blatantly racist acts in modern history.

Suze of course they get special treatment, even an intervention, special laws a separate government department ,.. I could go on but we both know you know exactly what I mean.

Of course it doesn't do them any good, so why do you all bristle up and defend this appalling racist system.

Get rid of the government department and all the laws and entitlements that separate them from the rest of Australia.

Clearly the paternal method of babying them does nothing.

You seem to have a big dose of shoot the messenger Suze .. all I'm doing is pointing out the obvious, however distasteful it is to teary liberal bleeding hearts who would prefer the aboriginals to be kept in some sort of primitive almost zoo like state.

Nothing at all in your past has worked, so try the one thing you have to tried - assimilate them immediately and with out delay, no payouts, no compensation just the normal life responsibility and ownership of your own future everyone else in Australia has.

What gets me is the assumption people commonly make that "racism" [insert definition here] is always automatically a bad thing. I for one vehemently reject this assumption. It is perfectly NATURAL human behaviour for people to prefer their own ethno-culture to others as it is natural for us to be suspicious of people that don't share our ancestory, language, values and culture.

According to the politically correct ethic, white people are always the perpetrators of "racism" and never the victims of it. And Tanveer Ahmed simply reinforces that in his article. In the modern politically correct world, the ethic of anti-racism is effectively used to systematically whack white people over the head with if they dare to have anything other than a highly favourable attitude towards ethnic minorities.

Hence there's some absurd expectation that white people are somehow morally obligated to be highly accepting and favourable in attitudes towards non-white minorities. According to this ethic, white people must never judge negatively or criticise, or mock, or make fun of, or abuse or speak out against ethnic minorities. If we do, we are apparently commiting some heinous moral sin!

Such an ethic is in reality an absurdity that runs completely contrary to the group interests of white people. At a time when our race faces a demographic genocide it has never before seen in history, it is an ethic that should be thoroughly rejected.

It is not logical, nor is it just or reasonable for society to effectively put ethnic minorities on such a pedestal. THEY ARE SIMPLY NOT THAT PRECIOUS. I submit that anti-racism is a pseudo morality espoused by people who don't understand human nature and who haven't learned to think for themselves. It is high time white people stopped allowing themselves to be intimidated by the term "racism" or "racist". Our very racial survival depends on it.

Those of you who thought that the
previous website that I gave by
Dr Eva Sallis was
purely "Media Spin," should take
a read of the following:

http://www.safecom.org.au/myths.htm

And -

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2001/s417232.htm

"I submit that anti-racism is a pseudo morality espoused by people who don't understand human nature and who haven't learned to think for themselves. It is high time white people stopped allowing themselves to be intimidated by the term "racism" or "racist". Our very racial survival depends on it."
Posted by gytre, Saturday, 26 June 2010 12:06:41 PM
______________________

You submit do you? Perry Mason would be so proud of you!

Tawkin Bolox understands you perfectly.

Foxy,
Is not the suspension of the proceesing of visas for Afghan and Sri Lankan illegal arrivals racist?

What does Eva Sallis have to say about this? Do not asylum advocates critisize a labor government, no matter what?

By the way the boats are still coming, it seems the boat people do not believe the suspension will last long and it will be back to business as usual.

As a CONSTITUTIONALIST I view Australia is racist as s.51(xxvi) is specifically in the constitution for this. Personally I oppose racism but I have to accept that Aboriginals themselves supported the 1967 referendum to be discriminated against by racist legislation. The Northern Territory Intervention Act is neither within s.122 of or within s.51(xxvi) of the constitution and yet nothing was done to stop it. Why not? There are those who criticise Pauline Hanson and while I never was a fan of her nevertheless as a CONSTITUTIONALIST I understood better what she was about just that she wasn’t able to translate her policies on basis of the constitution.
The whole immigration issue is a failure because the Framers of the Constitution specifically created the constitution so the commonwealth could deal appropriately with the influx of aliens. We now have a so called system where long term refugees are continuing to suffer in refugee camps and those who can afford to pay a people smuggler can so to say jump the que. Money wasted we could for example spend on the young invalids now left in old age nursing homes, etc. We need to pursue that those refugees which desire to come to Australia earn that right by learning about the customs and traditions of Australia and its language and not take for granted that they can demand to be living in Australia. Often racism is caused by the very people who are then subjected to racism. If refugees came here from refugee camps having learned the English language and customs and traditions being different then their native country then most Australians wouldn’t worry about them! However Australians are well entitled to be concerned when aliens come in and then demand their native country’s customs and traditions then overtake those of Australia in a clash of cultures. Australia is out home and any visitors have to respect this!