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The Forum > Article Comments > I have a dream > Comments

I have a dream : Comments

By John Tomlinson, published 15/6/2010

Sometimes people who have been visited by a Kadaitcha man get sick and die within a few days ...

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jon j
This perpetuates the myth that Traditional Indigenous culture is for the benefit of old men. I agree such a society would be barbaric. Well, hello there. From my perspective this is precisely the foundation of the society in which I live. And believe me it is barbaric, as the data about the increasing rates of violence against us and ours, irrespective of where we live, is testament.
Further, it demonstrates an appalling lack of knowledge of the pivotal part that women have in both traditional and urban Indigenous communities. This includes, but is not limited to a respected role in consensus decision making for the benefit of the whole community. Unhappily I am well used to a singular lack of valuing of the essential role women have in bearing, nurturing, developing and protecting children and the land, as is shown by what is omitted.

Such myth marketing encourages the continuance of unseemly outbursts by many against Indigenous peoples, as has been seen in one of our main cultural activities such as playing State of Origin.
It would seem apparent that Education and Awareness Raising is indeed required for all of us, not just elite footballers.
Posted by Jennie, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 10:08:18 PM
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Jon J,
Can't agree with you .Sounds a bit Racist to me .
Aboriginal Culture and male/female relations, have naturally evolved over 100,000 plus years.
It's ALL about survival, not getting the best of the opposite sex .
Changes are now occurring to bring a mix of old and new Culture to Aboriginal Australians .
It would be interesting to see what your life and relationships would be like in your World in say 10,000 years ....
But then in your perfect Capitalist Western World we are all on a level playing field allready aren't we ??
Posted by kartiya jim, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:17:41 PM
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Just wondered:

Isn't it racial-discrimination to allow only aboriginals to opt-out of Australian/western society and return to the stone-age (with or without their children)? Why shouldn't white-people be allowed the same privilege?

Also, why particularly the stone-age? for the aboriginals this means only 200-300 years back, so what if others want to opt-out and go only 200-300 years back in time (like the Amish for example)?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 2:15:58 AM
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Meanwhile, 25,000 Indigenous people have graduated from universities: 50,000 graduates is a likely achievment by 2020. Indigenous commencements and enrolments are at record levels. There are, on average, four graduates per day. Ph. Ds are graduating at an average of one every three weeks. Overwhelmingly, those graduates are urban-based, and they will live and work in their cities.

Fifteen thousand years ago, ALL of our ancestors were living a Stone Age existence, with stone, bone and wood as the basis of their technology. Ultra-parochialism and warfare between groups was the rule: tiny groups spoke utterly different languages from the next tiny group. Human sacrifice and cannibalism were common on all continents. The concept of environmental awareness and concern were utterly unknown.

Jennie, try to put those two paragraphs together, they are both (IMHO) accurate. Seriously, if you were Indigenous, which pathway would you take ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 11:45:10 AM
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As I am not Indigenous it is impossible for me to answer your question ... which would I choose?

I do know however that many of the Indigenous people I know have a sophisticated way of navigating this difficult terrain. As they are totally conscious of the fact that theirs is the oldest continuous living culture on this the oldest continent on the planet, they seek to apply the new technologies and cultural artifacts within the values and beliefs to ensure this continuance. This is particularly with respect to issues of health and well being as opposed to illness and disease.
Again beware of the myth making. While it is true that some Indigenous peoples have practiced cannibalism, this has not been established within the Indigenous peoples of Australia.
I am sure that I would prefer to live in a society whose war technology was limited to sticks and stones rather than nuclear weapons, self guided missiles anonymously destroying whole communities in a single blow. And I would prefer to live in a society which uses the resources available to it equitably and respectfully leaving the land in bountiful condition for future generations.
If we are to live here in peace together we must develop the elasticity of our brains to adapt and accommodate more than what our own culture has prescribed.
Posted by Jennie, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 11:59:01 AM
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'Sticks and stones' ? When Lloyd Warner wrote his book 'Black Civilization', he was shocked to calculate that the death-rate of young men through warfare in Arnhem Land was equivalent to the death-rates of British and German soldiers in the First World War. Constantly. For tens of thousands of years, Jennie. Hence the steady-state population. Hence the practice of old men each married to many young women.

All of our ancestors were living in Stone Age conditions, fifteen thousand years ago. All societies then had 'culture', and have had 'it' since: most societies have adapted and modified, even revolutionised, their cultural practices in those fifteen years. So I don't know what is so laudable about an unchanging 'culture', or society. That sounds like extreme conservatism, even reaction, to my Marxist ears.

In 1788, the Aboriginal population was around half a million. To forgo our airconditioning and ease of living, Jennie, we would have to get rid of around 21.5 million people. I'll go way out on a limb here and suggest that that is not likely to happen. So let's get on with living - together - in the real world and stop flogging history with a feather.
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 12:43:49 PM
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