Divine
Myths do not necessarily depict reality. They are there to teach lessons. I would have thought that the lesson was about making sure that incest and other close family marriages eg first and second cousins prohibited from marrying,unlike like the British royals, roman royals etc of our glorious ancestors. The myths and gods of Indigenous people are in no way more or less violent than the ones with which I was educated such as the ancient gods of Greece and Rome, Grimms Fairy Tales and so on.

What a shame that so much of the attention John's article has been focused on disavowing the perspectives of the many aboriginal nations here. Denials and gainsaying prevent us all from reaching common ground, learning from each other and developing as a people.

The idea that the State can and should allow bureaucrats to "manage"the money of income maintenance recipients is repugnant. The fact that it is done first in Indigenous communities on the pretext that these people are somehow incapable of living human lives BECAUSE they are Aboriginal is racist.

Participation in decision making about all aspects of our lives, health and communities makes for healthy people and healthy communities. (See Healthy Participation National Health Strategy of which Ms Macklin was a co-author.)

My last word, as it is clear that no consensus can be reached in this, kind of forum, is
As ye sow so shall ye reap

Jennie dear, it is not because they are Aboriginal, it is because they are IRRESPONSIBLE. It is a MINORITY of Aborigines affected - the ones who are not taking proper care of their children.

Doesn't this provision also now apply to anyone who is totally abusing welfare payments in order that some of the money gets spent on ensuring that the kids at least get a feed? So if that provision was enacted FIRST in some Aboriginal communities could it have been because of the appalling need for it?

On Planet Jennie does that matter? You seem to think that everything aboriginal is somehow 'sacred' 'untouchable' 'unquestionable' by we white fellas? God knows why? Their 'culture' is no more 'noble' than our own and not based on peace and love and total oneness with the Earth. In fact there's a lot less of it. Go check out a camp or outstation and see how the custodians treat their surrounds? Unfortunately not everything is as biodegradable as it was 200 years ago. Swap places with a traditional Aboriginal woman for a week. Just how much experience ACROSS THE BOARD have you had with Aboriginal people anyway? For heavens sake, take off the blinkers and get a view of REALITY. There's lots of good happening out there with Aboriginal people integrating into mainstream society. There's truly terrible things happening in some places and it's not white mans fault - it's aboriginal doing it to aboriginal - like has been going on for millenia. FACT!

Right on, Ms Divine. Myths reflect SOCIAL reality, the power of some, usually the older men, over the rest. Myths are cautionary tales to pull subordinates into line, and to reinforce the 'culture' that keeps them there.

Mikk,

Once upon a time, ALL of our ancestors lived in Paleolithic societies - in parts of Britain, until barely a thousand years ago. The last official witch-burning in Europe occurred in 1929, in Hungary. Jesus, talk about the effects of myths.

Nowadays, the vast majority of Aboriginal people live in urban environments, 99 % live in houses with electricity, most have access to cars and pretty much all are dependent on a money economy. 25,000 Aboriginal people are university graduates - that's one in every nine adults - and that is set to double by 2020. That's the direction that Aboriginal society is going in, regardless of 'culture', ideology or the wishes of the white middle-class pseudo-left, who would prefer that all Aboriginal people bugger off into the sticks for another 60,000 years. Not going to happen.

Just like pretty much everyone else, Aboriginal people had drastic effects on the environment; firing practices completely changed Australia's landscape and accelerated soil erosion. Nothing unique about that: over-grazing, over-cultivation, burning practices - these all had negative environmental effects all around the world, until people learnt (usually the hard way) or didn't learn at all, and simply moved on into some other group's country.

Nobody is exceptionally learned about the environment, particularly if they are utterly unaware of the long-term effects they are having on it, which has been all of us, including Aboriginal people.

Joe Lane

Loudmouth,
How about a bit of realism Joe,Western Society is at present on the same flight path as that of the Mythical " OOH AHH " bird that flies around in ever decreasing circles until it disappears somewhere smelly; even Blind Freddy [who was most likely Aboriginal] knows this .
We just don't like the answers to our excesses and the sooner we live simpler lives and use our intelligence in sensible ways to conserve what we have left the better .
For some this is impossible to countenance.
Ms divine.- very hard to please !
However I offer the Anmatyerre [Pronounced Amud-jerr-ah]Love Story that appears in the famous Tjapaltjarri Painting .
This has the luring, by Love Magic of a Napangati young woman to a Tjungurrai man's camp who by law should have married a Nangala Skin woman.The woman, who loved the "wrong-side " man, went to him .
The Elders allowed the pair to stay together although it was against usual Traditional Law,so greatly impressed were they by the power of the magic .
Did they live "Happily ever after " ? I think so !
Ps.The last time I was in an Aboriginal community , it was very clean, the people were generally very healthy and happy .Many of the young people were Computer savvy ,while respecting their language ,Elders and Culture.
While there, only time I heard a disturbed dog bark at night was when at 1am in the morning I went to the Testra Phone to try to find out the whereabouts of a white contracter friend who had gone drinking outside the Station Boundary and in a drunken had got lost in his vehicle .
If some Aboriginal People have Severe Social problems, or any group in our dominant Society we should ask THEM "Why"?
They don't need University degrees to tell us but we don't ask .

kartiya jim
Thank you . You expressed my thoughts so beautifully and simply..

Jim,

'We just don't like the answers to our excesses and the sooner we live simpler lives and use our intelligence in sensible ways to conserve what we have left the better .
For some this is impossible to countenance.'

Yes, we live in an imperfect world, but more people than ever before in history are aware that that is so. The issue is not how to reject it all lock, stock and barrel, but what to do about those imperfections ? Nobody is going to go back to a Stone Age existence, in Britain, Asia, Australia, or anywhere else. But the option is always available, Jim: off you go :)

I was intrigued about your attack on Indigenous people with university degrees: you wouldn't be an Indigenous academic or 'leader' by any chance ? I guess it's getting harder to be a member of a tiny Indigenous elite, when there are tens of thousands of Indigenous university graduates out there now, and tens of thousands more to come, breathing down your neck.

Joe