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Childhood — a time of innocence and indoctrination : Comments
By Glen Coulton, published 23/4/2010Is requiring children to adopt the religious beliefs of their parents not akin to child abuse?
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Posted by Proxy, Friday, 30 April 2010 11:01:22 PM
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TBC:
quote Can you lead the way with a examples of what this means, 'holding your tongue', and its relationship to 'justice'.... having defined what part/s of 'justice' you highlight? unquote The 2 were suggested as two distinct topics An example to illustrate the first. PM Gordon Brown recently said some nasty things about a woman and was recorded doing so. He subsequently apologised. What lessons should we draw from this... for ourselves and our children? What should the PM have done, if anything, if he was not caught? Suppose what he said about the lady was 100% correct, should he then have been expected to apologise? Should he apologise even if he was not caught? Finally, where do you derive your answers? From 'reason', a utilitarian philosophy, gut-feeling, intuition, inspiration, something else? Posted by grateful, Saturday, 1 May 2010 7:30:15 AM
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Proxy.
<<You're part of the problem.>> Wrong. You yourself are a part of a bigger, wider problem that encompasses all religions by letting Christianity off the hook and only reprimanding Islam. All while perpetuating the myth that atheism is anything more than the lack of a religious belief - a mistake predominantly made by theists. <<You cannot bring yourself to differentiate between Christianity and Islam.>> As a former Christian myself, I have a very good idea of the differences between Christianity and Islam. And as someone who now sees them both from a clearer perspective, I can tell you that they really are very much the same thing. Only a Christian or Muslim would think otherwise. <<In fact, you go further by condemning Christianity while giving "the religion of peace" a free pass whereas it manifestly does not deserve one.>> Neither TBC nor myself have referred to Islam as a “religion of peace”. Islam is a violent and primitive religion just like its sister religion - Christianity. <<As a non-Christian, non-Islam, non-Atheist...>> Okay, so if you’re a “non-atheist”, then you’re a theist. But if you’re not a Christian or a Muslim, then what religion are you? And why would you display such admiration for Christianity without so much as the slightest mention of your own religion? <<This probably has something to do with what JC had to say to his followers compared to the example Moh set.>> Oh, you mean like endorsing infinite punishment for finite crimes that the majority of us will apparently suffer (Matthew 7:13-14), and all because of god’s deliberate failure in the Garden of Eden that equates to giving a toddler a loaded gun - knowing in advance what’s going to happen - and then punishing him for the rest of his life when he hurts himself with it? Yeah, real great guy that JC was, eh? Some “prophet of peace”! Or are you just selectively referring to the good bits like a good Christian would? By the way, only Christians affectionately refer to Jesus as “JC”, as in: “Good ol’ JC... he’s me pal!” Posted by AJ Philips, Saturday, 1 May 2010 1:01:31 PM
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AJP,
"Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader meaning is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is distinguished from theism, which in its most general form is belief that at least one deity exists. The term atheism originated from the Greek (atheos), meaning "without gods", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshiped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century. Today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist, while a further 11.9% is described as nontheist." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist While wikipedia is not considered definitive it nevertheless gives a better account of atheism than you do. Posted by Proxy, Saturday, 1 May 2010 1:28:06 PM
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Ah Proxy, I’ve dealt with this many times before.
Had you read the Wikipedia article more thoroughly and not just selectively quoted it, you would have noticed it also makes a distinction between “implicit atheism” and “explicit atheism”. Implicit atheism is simply the lack of a belief - like that of a baby, and explicit atheism is the position that there are no deities. Essentially atheism means “not a theist”. We are either theists, or we are atheists. So again, if you are a “non-atheist”, then what religion are you? Posted by AJ Philips, Saturday, 1 May 2010 1:41:25 PM
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AJP,
I do not consider myself a theist or an atheist. Unlike theists and atheists, I find myself in the unfortunate position of not knowing with any certainty. I am, however, pleased for those atheists (such as yourself) and theists who are privy to the secrets of the universe. Posted by Proxy, Saturday, 1 May 2010 2:14:50 PM
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You're part of the problem.
You cannot bring yourself to differentiate between Christianity and Islam.
In fact, you go further by condemning Christianity while giving "the religion of peace" a free pass whereas it manifestly does not deserve one.
As a non-Christian, non-Islam, non-Atheist, I can at least recognise that Christianity has evolved to a far higher level than Islam has or, in my opinion, ever will.
This probably has something to do with what JC had to say to his followers compared to the example Moh set.
JC was a prophet of peace.
Moh was a prophet of war.
My children haven't been indoctrinated into, or even taught, any religion.
In fact, my 5yo asked me last Christmas who Jesus was when she heard his name somewhere.
But if they were to be indoctrinated into either Jesus or Mohammed's teachings, I'd rather it be the former.
Furthermore, I believe that anybody without an agenda who has studied their lives and read the real teachings of JC and Moh would say the same thing, if they were honest.
Don't bother responding.
I'll do it for you:
"Nyaa, nyaa, he's a Christian!"