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The Forum > Article Comments > Anti-immigration backlash roils ties between Australia and India - part I > Comments

Anti-immigration backlash roils ties between Australia and India - part I : Comments

By Robin Jeffrey, published 9/3/2010

Despite being a nation built by immigrants, Australia faces fresh challenges in dealing with new arrivals, particularly from India.

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Before we indulge this theory of 'rednecking' why don't we read what the Federal Court of Australia has had to say about comments like those that Jay has been posting. Then you can decide for yourself whether it is lawful or unlawful.

McGlade v Lightfoot:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2002/752.html
Toben v Jones:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2002/1150.html
Silberberg v Builders Collective:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2007/1512.html

Jay has put his speech out there and the inferences I've drawn are fairly reasonable. Thats the consequences of publishing speech - others are allowed to draw reasonable inferences from them. In this instance I think that on balance that Jay's comments go beyond a point that the law allows. The courts have made similar inferences in Silberberg and McGlade.

You'll note that the RDA is a civil liability scheme - not a criminal statute - so there's no question of 'jail time' (?!). I'm not suggesting that the debate on immigration should be shut down, rather that a post calling for a "final solution to the black problem" should be removed.

These are the laws of Australia and nobody is so special that they should be allowed to flout them. ... Lawyer Pride Worldwide!! ;-)
Posted by David Jennings, Saturday, 27 March 2010 4:05:28 PM
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Forrest says:

"David Jennings goes on to say:

"..., it is pretty easy to see that this is racist
hate speech. It basically infers that the non-whites
are out to get the whites and are parasitic upon them."

No it isn't, and it doesn't."

Well then why does Jay say:

"....every non White person that comes here diminishes the proportion AND the number of White children in this country, that's how demographics works."
"Every job that goes to an Indian, every increase in house prices due to excessive immigration means that less White children are being born."

What inferences can we draw from that? How does positively describe the relationship between whites and non-whites?

What about:
"I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem"

What do you read from that? Does he regard the blacks as equal human beings or as a problem?

"Indians are not competitive and would need Affirmative Action programs to level the playing field IE they need to be "given" jobs rather than earn their place."
"put five Indians to the task that one White man can accomplish alone and the job gets done eventually."
"Does anyone feel uncomfortable driving past a carwash staffed entirely by Sikhs and patronised almost entirely by White people?
With regard to them "taking our jobs":
Does anyone really believe that the average Indian is a capable competitor in a White society?"

Are these not extremely racist remarks?
Posted by David Jennings, Saturday, 27 March 2010 4:16:18 PM
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David, can we move on? We've looked at the issues. In the context of the thread a post, even if it is racist, if it is directed to discussing the matters which we are discussing, does not make the thread in breach of the act. The act allows for this sort of discussion in an academic context.

Further, you are not accurately interpreting at least some of what Jay is saying. Instead of characterising what he says as racist, some of which clearly is, address the substance and why his point of view is wrong.

You are essentially arguing about moderation, not about the matter which is the subject of the thread, so you posts are off-topic.
Posted by GrahamY, Saturday, 27 March 2010 6:37:23 PM
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As the article's author, Robin Jeffrey, observes in its opening paragraph, 'racism' has now become a dirty word in Australia.

It seems to me that there are two senses in which the word 'racism' can be claimed to have 'dirty' connotations. The first is with respect to the actual practice of racism, exemplified by such things as disqualification for employment on the basis of physical appearance or country of origin, and it is the actual implementation of such racially-based discrimination that is the thing regarded as being 'dirty'. The second is with respect to what is widely perceived to be the taking of first resort to branding the Australian community at large, or more specifically that overwhelmingly major component of it that can be identified as 'white', or 'anglo', or of 'British origin', as being comprised of or containing a significant proportion of persons as having racist attitudes.

I think it is in the second sense that the author has claimed 'racism' as having become a dirty word in Australia. That seems borne out by the reference to the success of 'Vindaloo against Violence'.

It seems incredible to me that, in all of the publicity surrounding the targetting of Indian students with violence, the news that was initially kept from the Australian public [that a very significant proportion of the violence was actually perpetrated by other Indians, rather than by persons from the 'white' Australian community] would not have been known to Indian diplomatic officials.

It further seems that thoroughly justified Indian diplomacy on behalf of some of its citizens [Indian students studying in Australia] has brought to light a dirty little bi-partisanly-kept Australian political secret, in the form of the linkage of participation in the study rort to the securing of permanent Australian residency status. That secret being that an over-blown Australian academic structure had been becoming increasingly sustained by a ripping-off (with the assistance of the migration industry) of the life-savings of aspirant Indian families.

Too many overpaid academics for the public payroll. The political bullet not bitten. The problem disguised.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Sunday, 28 March 2010 10:37:22 AM
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Forrest Gumpp: << the news that was initially kept from the Australian public [that a very significant proportion of the violence was actually perpetrated by other Indians, rather than by persons from the 'white' Australian community] >>

Are you sure about that, Forrest? In my reading of the media reportage of recent violence against Indians in Australia I'm only aware of a few cases where the perpetrators have been reliably identified as Indian. Whether these constitute a "very significant proportion" depends to some extent on perspective, I suppose.

Do you have any reliable references for your claim?

Incidentally, I agree about the education/training and residency scam. There's no way that participation by foreign students in paid education or training in Australia should have been linked with promises of permanent residency. The rort seems particularly egregious when the training involved is some kind of bogus 'hairdressing' or 'cooking' course.

Of course, it would have been better if this scam had come to light by other means than an apparent crime wave against Indian students in Australia.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Sunday, 28 March 2010 1:35:14 PM
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Surely we have already discussed what Forrest states on another thread. There I pointed out that of the last 5 Indians killed in Australia, 4 were killed by fellow Indians themselves. I'd say that constitutes a significant proportion. The reason I choose to deal with deaths/murders is that usually the media idenitifies the perpetrators and the numbers are easy to deal with. Dealing with general violence is a whole different issue as there are literally thousands of incidents and the Police do not take information on a persons cultural background.
Anyway if we don't have the stats for general violence that's certainly no reason to assume they are commited by 'white' Australians. I'd want to see the evidence to support anyone stating the majority or even a significant proportion of the violence is conducted by white Australians. I've certainly never seen any reports to support that.

Here is the list I gave to support the statement that 4 of the 5 most recent Indians killedd in Australia were killed by fellow Indians.

A) In early Jan 2010 Nitin Garg (1) was stabbed to death. The killer has not yet been identified.

B) In early Jan 2010 Ranjodh Singh(2) was set alight whilst thought still to be alive. The killers were all indians, Harpreet Bullar, Harpreet Singh and Gnrpreet Singh.

C) In early Feb 2010 Navdeep Singh(3) and Kanwaljit Singh(4) were stabbed to death by an Indian student who was sharing the house with them. The killings were over $20.

D) Just the other day Gurshan Singh(5) was killed by an Indian student taxi driver.

If there are any murders that I have not listed then I apologize and would appreciate being corrected. However that would not change the overall position that a significant proportion of Indians killed in Australia have been killed by fellow Indians.
Posted by ozzie, Sunday, 28 March 2010 9:51:21 PM
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