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The Forum > Article Comments > Hirsi Ali: an apostle of liberal democracy and of secularism? > Comments

Hirsi Ali: an apostle of liberal democracy and of secularism? : Comments

By Mark Bahnisch, published 15/6/2007

A liberal democracy is not worthy of the name unless it treats all its citizens equally and without discrimination.

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‘… pundits such as Janet Albrechtsen and Miranda Devine, loudly castigated the “secular left”, but they were unable to cite anyone who actually defended the practice of female genital mutilation on “cultural” grounds, the key point of their critique.’

Exactly. And neither have I.

It’s time to push this disgusting culture-wars myth back into the sewers where it belongs.
Posted by MLK, Friday, 15 June 2007 9:50:58 AM
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"The separation of church, or mosque, and state is not supposed to imply a crusade against religion."

But what if a religion cannot separate islelf from the state?

Islam is a STATE AND A RELIGION.

We enjoy our secular and democratic freedoms BECAUSE of Chritianity and our fore-fathers principles.

All religion are NOT the same.

It will pay - for the sake of secular freedoms - to publicly expose the Islamic realities about integration and tolerance before making broad brush statements...

Multiculturalism has failed because (it) did not factor for the possibility of the NON-ASSIMILABLES!
Posted by coach, Friday, 15 June 2007 10:53:21 AM
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"Islam is a STATE AND A RELIGION."

Garbage. Not in Turkey it isn't nor was it in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Regimes in Syria and Egypt (majority Muslim populations) have spent considerable time and energy killing Islamic fundamentalists because the bid to set up Islamic theocracies is a threat to their power. Islam may be the state religion in Iran, for instance. But it is not the case in many other countries where Muslims reside.

"We enjoy our secular and democratic freedoms BECAUSE of Christianity and our fore-fathers principles."

More malarky. It is where Christianity has been beaten back by secular, democratic forces you see the greatest freedoms. Spain was a virtual Catholic theocracy in the 16th to 19th Centuries. In the early 21st Century Spanish people have much greater freedoms than they could imagine as recently as Franco's time. Why? The power of the Church has lessened (not without a struggle). The Catholic Church in Spain also supported Franco.

Note also that the founders of Australian federation including the separation of religion from state affairs in the constitution. They obviously knew the possible disasters of religious outfits meddling in state affairs.
Posted by DavidJS, Friday, 15 June 2007 11:45:27 AM
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Perhaps a copy of this article should be specifically directed to Greg Barns, who has castigated Hirsi Ali in an extremely savage way. I admire this woman and her courage. How long before a fatwah is issued against her?
Posted by perikles, Friday, 15 June 2007 11:46:09 AM
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'"Islam is a STATE AND A RELIGION."

Garbage. Not in Turkey it isn't nor was it in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Regimes in Syria and Egypt (majority Muslim populations) have spent considerable time and energy killing Islamic fundamentalists because the bid to set up Islamic theocracies is a threat to their power. Islam may be the state religion in Iran, for instance. But it is not the case in many other countries where Muslims reside.'

Garbage yourself. Ever read up on how Copts are treated in Egypt? A state with a majority of Muslims is still a Muslim state, with Muslim laws. Ever heard of the aprtheid bumiputra laws of Malaysia? Heard of how difficult it is to for a Malay to change religion (from the automatic Islam) in Malaysia? Not heard of how Christians are treated in Turkey? How did Turkey and all these other Muslim (or Islamic, not much difference) states get to be 99% Muslim? The Fundamentalists merely challenge the rulers of the day, which is why they are persecuted, not because of their religious beliefs, which are very close to those self-same rulers'. Saddam was a little different, he protected the rights of minority religions, but was savage against Kurds and Shia.
Posted by Viking, Friday, 15 June 2007 5:31:53 PM
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Hirsi Ali is an apostle of liberal democracy and secularism, and the fact that she is a minority - black, a woman, and a Muslim, is why she resonates with so many.

Here is this 'third-worlder' telling us that the cowardly leftists who dominate our education system, shoving nonsense down our throats about the west being evil, decadent, racist, and not unfavourable to the odd genocide, are themselves the bigots - that our western values are to die for.

Many have succumbed to this mentality, a sickening self-loathing, nihilistic display of self-hate by weak pricks who are too scared to confront the value systems of non-western cultures.

Why? Because they know that such value systems ARE decadent, that those from such cultures ARE racists, ARE tribal, and ARE sectarian.

The writer tries to turn it to say that the vitriolic attacks Hirsi Ali has copped while in Australia, and everywhere she goes - by the cowardly leftist herd, are really just attempts to subject her to criticism!

It's laughable, but also deliciously ironic.

This is the very reason she even exists, as the leftist bigoted herd won't allow anyone to criticise any non-western cultures or religions!

This was meant to be a joke right?

Hirsi Ali reminds those racist leftists - by attacking her comments about the backward, intolerant, homophobic, misoginistic, nature of Islam, that all cultures are NOT equal, that western values ARE superior.

They already know this, but have decided to hide from it, so as to not offend those from bigoted, racist cultures and religions, that, for example, won't allow their burqa clad wives to swim in the same pool as the dirty kuffour.

They just accomodate that bigotry, wheraes enlightened people like Hirsi Ali, and myself, would use force to smash that backwardness.

And no, it is not hypocritical to espouse the values of tolerance, acceptance, equality, but then want to destroy systems that don't respect those values.

If so, we were wrong to use force to overthrow Nazism.
Posted by Benjamin, Friday, 15 June 2007 5:52:51 PM
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