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The Forum > Article Comments > Hirsi Ali: an apostle of liberal democracy and of secularism? > Comments

Hirsi Ali: an apostle of liberal democracy and of secularism? : Comments

By Mark Bahnisch, published 15/6/2007

A liberal democracy is not worthy of the name unless it treats all its citizens equally and without discrimination.

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DOES "ISLAM" ALLOW sex with Infants?

Don't let ME tell you.. ask this Arab campaigner for human rights....
Let her tell the full, ugly story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb-EASDD7Mo&mode=related&search=

Look at what 'misyar' marriage is...Mutah marriage..

The quote of the clip "And you mean to tell me SHARIA law allows THIS"....

Not much more to be said.

Its time we have video recordings of every Muslim applicant for migration where they specifically DENOUNCE such practices in the Quran and Sunnah and hadith and Sharia.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 15 June 2007 8:29:05 PM
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I see that Boazy is still shamelessly rabble-rousing. Actually, I just looked up Mut'a and misyar marriage at Wikipedia, and they don't seem at all to be inherently objectionable practices - sort of Sh'ia and Sunni versions of Western de facto relationships. No mention at all of child sex...

More of Boazy's fantasies. Bigot business as usual.

On the actual topic of Hirsi Ali, I think that Mark Bahnisch is on the mark in his analysis. Disagreeing with Hirsi Ali is not a form of liberal heresy, as some commentators would have us believe. It's called freedom of speech.

That's why I support Hirsi Ali's right to say anything she likes - but I find the obsequious feting of her by the lunar right just a tad disingenuous.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 15 June 2007 9:36:42 PM
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali began with great promise for leadership in the Netherlands.

She was initially a member of the biggest left wing party in Holland. She was speaking mainly from a feminist view in support of women.

Increasingly her pronounements began to alienate the very women on the 'left' on whose behalf she supposedly spoke.

She switched over to a major conservative party with a platform to reduce migrant intake. Effectively making it harder for women like herself to escape cultural and/or religious repression. Making it harder for other women to a chance she felt she had a right to.

Her former conservative party is glad she has left the country, though she retained her citizenship. She is increasingly stridently atheist and many conservatives are also people of faith.

She stopped speaking for the 'left'. She is not speaking the language of the 'right'. she is no longer a representative in the political arena. Who is she speaking for? Only for herself. She is the author of an autobiography, she does not speak for women of her previous faith or indeed with her experiences.

In the Netherlands, there are other voices of Muslims. They question, but are not condemning of Muslims. It creates debate and reflection, not polarization.
Posted by yvonne, Friday, 15 June 2007 9:39:02 PM
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David JS first.. (CJ, Ur next)

Two points Dave.

1/ When you describe "Islam is a religion and a State" as 'garbage' you make a common error mate.. you fail to distinguish between the 'practice' of some countries at this point in history, from the basics of Islam as a faith. I strongly recommend you persue some private study on the emergence and growth of Islam, and examine the concept of Sharia Law.
2/ Christianity was beaten back ? :) I always smile when people make the same mistake twice. No..not 'Chrisianity' but (again) the historical manifestation of human social engineering in the 'name' of Christianity.
Christianity is....'Christ'. So, rather than look at the failings of the Church or churches, look to Him, then..criticize them in relation to where they should be or have been relative to the One they claim to represent.
cheers.

CJ. you rather fell into that one old son.. KaaaaaPloop! Now a bright person like yourself, who decorates his posts with uncountable flowery words :).. should have picked up on the following:

a) I raised the question "Does Islam allow"... and then the answer could have been either way.. for.. or against. Then..
b) I said "don't let ME answer it.. hear it for yourself from" .....
and.. did you actually watch that vid ? where the answer to the question is found? Apparently not, but you went to wiki and found something to your liking? hmmm then you describe it as nothing more than 'Western Defacto Relationships'... totally forgetting that Islam rants and raves, points spiritual bones at so many things it consideres 'immoral' one of which is 'fornication'. People are even stoned to death for such things.

In your zeal to pigeon hole me, you then neglected to see the most obvious problem with "Islamic moral purity" in that they DO the very things they rant against, but simply avoid self condemnation by giving it a different name. "Fornication and Adultery" are now 'temporary marriage'.

You also failed dismally to recognize that Islam/mohammad allowed 'sex with newly captured women'. (See Apocalypto)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 16 June 2007 8:03:26 AM
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"ISLAM IS STATE"

Waleed Aly (Islamic Council of Victoria) was on the panel (Issues Deliberation Australia) Camberra in February - advocating for Islamic Tolerance in Australia.

Waleed is also the voice of Hizb-al-Tahrir (interesting).

Their constitution:

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm

A pamphlet:

(note the Islamic State date below)

O Muslims!

Hizb ut-Tahrir calls upon you to mobilise your forces and rally your ranks to help and support it in its work to establish the Khilafah state, by which you will restore your glory, attain the good pleasure of your lord and destroy your enemy.

Let each one of you do that which he is able to do:

Whoever is capable to join in this work in the first rows as a front line supporter to help in establishing the state, let him do so and come forward.

Whoever is capable to work in the rear rows as a rear line supporter to help in establishing the state, let him do so and come forward.

Whoever is not capable to work, and will be around it for protecting the state and the da’wa, let him do so and come forward.

Whoever is unable to do so because of an excuse or a reason, let him support it by his heart and du’aa.

As for us, Hizb ut-Tahrir, we are proceeding in our work by the Will of Allah, to seek realisation of His promise:

‘Allah has promised those of you who believe and do good deeds that He will surely make them to succeed (the present rulers) in the earth…’ [24: 55]

And to seek realisation of the good news given by His Messenger sallalahu alayhi wasallam:

‘Then it will become Khilafah on the model of prophethood’.

We do all this with true belief and we ask Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to let us meet Him with this belief, and with good deeds which we ask Allah to accept from us. We will work hard and hurry in our march rehearsing His subhanahu wa ta’ala’s words:

‘To help believers is incumbent upon Us’. [30: 47]

2 Jumada Al-’Awwal 1426 AH (09.06.2005 )
Posted by coach, Saturday, 16 June 2007 10:39:25 AM
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Boaz,

Marriage in Islam have 2 corners: Intent (intention to be with and raise and family with the chosen person) and announcement (ie 2 witnesses + public announcement). So anything like 'temporary marriage', 'secret marriage' is a disguised adultery that individuals chose to mislead themselves into and commit on their accord.
To understand marriage in Islam, visit:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5938#83823
Posted by Fellow_Human, Saturday, 16 June 2007 11:21:36 AM
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