Hi Peter,

From an atheist's point of view, of course the depiction of a god by Christians and the depiction of a god by Muslims are dramatically different, and those depictions, illusions as they may be, are powerful exemplars of the drastic differences in the ethical basis of each religion.

Even an atheist such as myself can understand that the ethical intentions of Christianity are vastly superior to those of Islam: what counts as good or bad ? What is exemplary behaviour ? What is the believer's place in a very mixed world ? Who is your brother or sister ? Overall, what is the general tenor of a contemporary believer's relationship to other people - to love or to conquer ?

Christianity and Islam deal with these sorts of questions in drastically different ways. And in such different ways that reconciliation is ultimately inconceivable. Even I can see that.

And we have to have the courage to call it like it is: Islam instructs that, ultimately, the population of the entire world (since it is perceived to belong to Allah) must be brought into submission, surrender, or be exterminated.

Christianity, at least in its more modern forms, has a far more indulgent, live-and-let-live, approach, a recognition that people have their own views and beliefs, that persuasion should be the means of bringing them into the light rather than the sword or bomb.

Far be it for me to defend Christianity - obviously the Catholic Church has a long way to go but we don't see priests these days burning witches or throwing gays off the top of buildings, or Jehovah's Witnesses randomly butchering old ladies on their home-visits. I can't recall the last time I heard of a Mormon beheading anybody or machine-gunning children. Let us know when that happens.

Is it utterly outlandish to think it could ? Then, if there is ever going to be any coming together, under 'the same god', then I would far, far rather that they do so under the banner of current Christian ethics than the current barbarities of orthodox Islam.

Joe

Says who? You? And apart from endless hearsay and quite massive plagiarism! There are no eyewitness accounts nor physical evidence for this claim?

Why even the exodus from egypt to the promised land by the "chosen people" and the resultant commandments written on stone by the hand of God is being challenged by the revealed archaeological evidence?

And as such proves that the authors of so called holy text were consummate story tellers?

And according to some of those stories the man you called God, promised that those who followed, would perform even more remarkable miracles than he did, and just by the laying on of hands and being used as a CHOSEN instrument of God! [It is not I that does these things but the father in me!]

Now that is evidence Peter!

And nowhere apart from the placebo effect do I see any evidence of this happening.

Yes there is evil at work in this world; and given an evil incarnate, one would hope that there are counterbalancing angels lined up against it?

We Christians have a set of beliefs and prophesies, if you will, borrowed from many diverse belief systems.

Thus we get the holy trinity from the druids, The fourteen commandments and a promised messiah from the jewish tradition.

And quite clearly an embellished text by John a Jewish scholar, so as to provide the missing messianic elements, like walking on water, that until John, were missing from this, [man made] well after the event record/concoction?

Proving as nothing else can, that in order to give credence to a theoretical concept, one needs just a little more than hearsay and or legend.

That said, I for one cannot look at the night sky and dismiss divine intelligence and a creator!

However I don't check in my brain with the hat and coat, when I enter an august establishment.

Truly truly Peter, unexamined life is not worth living, nor is an unexamined belief system worth following; particularly with fanatical cannot err, blind faith, and therefore little more than a cult!?
Rhrosty.

Congratulations, Rhrosty,

Five full stops. A new record. Keep up the good work.

Well said Rhosty. At least he addressed the article, unlike yourself Calwest.

"Christians can have this discussion because we know that in the grace of God all people exist as human souls before God. Thus religious belief may be discussed without it leading to prejudice and persecution."

You surely must be joking Mr. Sellick? From what I have seen, Christians are no better and no worse at 'discussing' religion without getting somewhat upset with others that don't agree with them , than any other person.

The Christian fundamentalists certainly don't like being any argument against their beliefs, that's for sure! If you dare to consider abortion as a woman's right to choose, for instance, well you can expect to be persecuted at the very least, if not shot dead for those actions or beliefs. The US Tea Party crazies are a case in question.

No one has ever been able to prove they have seen a God of any sort, let alone one with a human face. It always amuses me that the many fictitious depictions of the Christian god's face show a white male. That's not surprising though really, given it was a group of white males who wrote the fictitious bible.

Why not a black face? Why not a woman?
I prefer to think of it as a sort of Mother Earth, if at all.....

Hi Suse,

Of course most sensible people believe that there never have been any gods.

But I'll stick by what I wrote bove:

"Far be it for me to defend Christianity - obviously the Catholic Church has a long way to go but we don't see priests these days burning witches or throwing gays off the top of buildings, or Jehovah's Witnesses randomly butchering old ladies on their home-visits. I can't recall the last time I heard of a Mormon beheading anybody or machine-gunning children. Let us know when that happens.

"Is it utterly outlandish to think it could ? Then, if there is ever going to be any coming together, under 'the same god', then I would far, far rather that they do so under the banner of current Christian ethics than the current barbarities of orthodox Islam."

Of course, that's hardly likely to happen: we're likely to become LESS religious as time passes. So the only option, incredibly difficult as it may turn out to be, is for Muslims to force through the total reform of their belief system, and adopt a more human live-and-let-live approach, in order to co-exist with others, including us non-believers.

In other words, to recognise the rights of all people to believe what they like so long as it does not involve any threat or compulsion exerted against others.

What do you reckon ?

Joe

Peter Sellick: we are all recipients of the grace of God even though we know it not. This is a better basis for tolerance than willed blindness to religious difference because it has the capacity to lead to real understanding.

Now all you have to do Peter is go to Syria & have a meaningful dialogue with the Leaders of ISIS. I'm sure they will give you an understandingly mindful hearing, then lop your head off. ;-)

On the God or Gods. Fact is, there is no God or Gods. I have no proof of that, just as anyone else has no proof that there is. It all relies on Faith in a Belief. Then there has to be a Dogma to go along with that Belief. Now, aren't there some doozy Beliefs & Dogmas. Along with these Dogmas is a Penalty System of Punishments if you fail to adhere to those Dogmas. Why Punishments. Control, that's why.

So what the Beliefs in a God or Gods comes down to is Control of the masses.

Control is managed either by Love or Fear. The Love part sounds great on the surface until you dip your head under the waters only to find that Love is conditional on Fear.

Fear is what drives the World. Fear God, Fear Rulers, Fear Bosses, Fear Wife or Husband, Fear of missing out, Fear of dying, Fear of not having something better than everyone else.

All Advertising is based on Fear & so are Religions.

The trick is not to fall for it.

My bet. We'll never hear from Peter.