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The Forum > Article Comments > God has a human face > Comments

God has a human face : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 21/12/2015

While it is popular to say, in an intended peace-making turn, that Christianity, and Islam believe in the one God, it is apparent from close inspection that this is not true.

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The rumours say Constantine preferred Yehoshuah to be separate.
'Eusebius and Theognis ( of Arius non-trinity) remained in the Emperor's favor, and when Constantine, who had been a catechumen much of his adult life, accepted baptism on his deathbed, it was from Eusebius of Nicomedia.'
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 27 December 2015 10:58:50 AM
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Dear nicknamenick,

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What seems pretty certain is that those 300 bishops who gathered together at the Council of Nicaea in Turkey in the year 325 would never have arrived at an agreement on the doctrine of the Trinity if it had not been for the determination and power of persuasion of Constantine whose guiding motto was reportedly “one empire, one emperor, one religion”.

I’m willing to bet that, if Constantine had not succeeded in imposing the Trinity but somehow still managed to unify “the Church”, our dear friend Peter/Sells would be scoffing today at the suggestion that it could possibly have been adopted, telling us what a complicated concept it was. That no ordinary mortal could make head nor tail of it. Wondering how on earth anyone could ever have imagined God in the form of a single entity with three different, concomitant identities: two spiritual and one human, a sort of mythical Hydra guarding the passage to the Afterlife.

So much for the interaction and cross-fertilization of politics and religion.

I am also amazed that “the Church” has adopted, to symbolise itself, such a gruesome instrument of torture as the cross. The only logical explanation I can imagine is that it probably reflects the tortured personality of Saul of Tarsus who, with the help of his assistant, Luke, wrote 50% of the New Testament.

Saul had a long history of religious fanaticism. He participated in the stoning to death of the first Christian martyr, Etienne, then became a rabbi before having an illumination and converting to Christianity. He was a tent maker by profession. His life was marked by physical violence, pain, illness and self-flagellation – to such an extent that he seemed to have masochistic tendencies, detesting himself and the human condition, while glorifying the virtues of obedience and submission.

For Saul, religion appears to have been the sublimation of the death impulse which haunted him all his life. It obsessed him and consumed him. Nero put him out of his misery by decapitating him in Rome in the year 64.

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(Continued …)

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Monday, 28 December 2015 4:20:34 AM
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Banjo: those 300 bishops

& The major representatives of every other Religion in the Roman Empire. If he wanted the Roman people on his side he had to be inclusive of all the people. Otherwise he would have had a Major Revolt on his hands.

Locking them all in the Great Hall at Nicaea with the threat of death if they tried to leave. It was his idea of getting a consensus, by all the major religions, on a Religion everyone could agree on for the good of the Empire.

Nicknamenick: accepted baptism on his deathbed,

That's what I was taught at school. But as my teachers said we only have the Bishops words for that because they had dismissed the Guard & they were the only people at the deathbed. Very Convenient eh.

As far as Saul of Tarsus is concerned. He was a Tax Collector for the Temple. He brought the money collected from the non-Israel Communities back to the Temple to be undefiled by the Priests before it could be touched by a Jew. (I just can't put my finger on the word for non-Israeli Jew.)

I guess he was coming back to the Temple with a big Bag of money when he had his epiphany. "I am a Jew but I am still treated as an outsider." That's when he saw the light & became a Christian. Paul, never met or knew Jesus, Yet his teachings make up more than 50% of the New Testament. In fact not one of the Gospel writers ever set eyes on Jesus. It's all Hearsay. Where are the writings of the Apostles? Banned, hmmm...
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 28 December 2015 8:41:19 AM
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(Continued …)

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“The Church” celebrates the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross (also called Holy Cross Day) on September 14.

According to the historians, the cross existed as a religious symbol well before the advent of Christianity, but not with the same gruesome connotation. Before its adoption by “the Church” to symbolise the crucifixion of Jesus, exactly what it was intended to signify in ancient times remains a matter of conjecture among specialists.

Be that as it may, there is not the slightest shadow of doubt today that the cross has become the symbol of violence, torture, pain, suffering and excruciating death in the most horrible possible conditions.

I have difficulty understanding why “the Church” of Peter/Sells wishes to continue to project that image of itself to the rest of the world ?

A more peaceful and fraternal image would seem to me to be far more appropriate. Why not that other symbol the early Christians were known to use and which has been found in many funerary inscriptions in the Roman catacombs: a white dove holding an olive branch in its beak. Perhaps that symbol should be revived and promoted.

That would certainly project a less morbid image of “the Church” than the cross.

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Monday, 28 December 2015 10:38:22 AM
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Banjo: the cross has become the symbol of violence, torture, pain, suffering and excruciating death in the most horrible possible conditions.

One reason I remember from my early Education is that "The God" wanted to show that any suffering we have on earth is nothing compared to what "The God." suffered for us. That gave the early Church Carte Blanche to inflict what ever punishment or harsh conditions it wanted to on it's members.

Early Christian Symbols; The fish (Roman), The Lamb (Syrian), The Dove (Turkey or Eastern Holy Roman Empire. The final image was the Lamb holding the Cross in it's front legs with the Dove & Olive branch shining a light down on them. The Lamb & Cross signifying Jesus & his death & the Dove in a Halo & Light signifying God the Father & the Holy Ghost. RefS; "The Lost Language of Symbolism." Vol. 1 & 2, by Harold Bayley. ISBN: 0-898-185054-1 & 987-1-58509-309-0. "Symbols." by Sandra Forty. ISBN: 1-57145-979-0. "Dictionary of Symbols." Tom Chetwynd. ISBN: 1-85538-296-2.
The whiteness of the Lamb signifies Jesus's purity, The Cross or Stave signifies the Sheppard (Jesus) If its a banner with a Cross, It's John the Baptist.
The fish was used by the Romans. Supposedly the letters for Fish in Greek spelt out "Jesus Christ, Son of Man, Saviour. I learnt that in School too. The Dove goes back to Noah & the Ark. When the Raven didn't return & the Dove did.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 28 December 2015 12:02:36 PM
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Dear Jayb,

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You certainly seem to have had a pretty heavy religious education. Am I right in thinking it must have been a Catholic school? Mine was a State primary school in the Queensland bush - my only formal education.

You also seem to have an excellent memory. I can’t, for the life of me, remember anything from the religious education classes I had occasionally.

Thank you for those interesting details on Christian symbolism. I definitely prefer the dove to the fish, the lamb, the cross or the stave (with or without the banner).

France, where I now live, passed a law in 1905 making it a secular state, i.e., separation of church and state, the state observing strict neutrality in respect of all religious denominations, favouring none, but guaranteeing freedom of religion for everybody as a fundamental human right. However, a law of 1993 made polygamy illegal, a law of 2004 made it illegal to wear conspicuous religious symbols in public schools, and a law of 2011 made it illegal to wear a face-covering veil or other mask in public places such as the street, shops, museums, etc.

Since 1905, the symbol of unity of the nation is no longer religion but the Republic, which resulted from the French revolution of 1789, and the symbol of that was the storming of the Bastille and the decapitation of the reigning king, Louis XVI and his wife, the queen, Marie Antoinette.

Nevertheless, I can’t imagine anybody in France wanting to wear a necklace with a guillotine on it or placing a full life-size guillotine in all the public buildings throughout the country as Christians place crosses of the crucifixion of Jesus in all the Christian churches throughout the world. Nor can I imagine a footballer, a boxer, or anybody else for that matter, making the sign of his head being chopped-off (as with the guillotine) before some important event, as I often see some of them furtively crossing themselves (as Christians) today, presumably to bring them good luck.

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(Continued ...)

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 3:35:48 AM
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