Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. What a well thought out and well written article. You have taken many myths and arguments and discussed them in a factual way. Thank you

I guess the main issue you have addressed here is, Why is it always the white guys fault? I say that believing to that Multiculturalism is indeed the best path for Australian. What I think always gets turned on its head whenever this topic is talked about no matter what the issues, it's always the white guys fault. This is the root cause of much of the back lash against multiculturalism in my view. White people cannot talk about any negative aspect of multiculturalism without being branded as a racist.
What many Australians think about the "Muslim issue" is not that we don't want them here it's more the feeling that they (the Muslims) don't want us here. That they don't embrace multicultural, that they want to live in a monoculture.
but seeing as I’m a white Anglo-Saxon male I guess it's my fualt.

Alice Aslan,
Please indicate where around the globe any form of Islamic governance has produced positive human rights outcomes.
Please also indicate where Islamic laws or doctrine repudiate the countless calls to violence in the Koran.
Please offer an explanation for the massive over-representation of Islamic immigrants in European jails.
Please explain the massive over-involvement of Islamists in terrorist activities.
Please explain how Islam can be reformed, in light of the comments of Muslim experts who hold little hope:
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/05/27/symposium-the-worlds-most-wanted-a-%e2%80%9cmoderate-islam-%e2%80%9d/
Please advise how the problems of
female genital mutilation,
Islamic terrorism,
honour killings,
etc, etc, etc,
will be ameliorated, and not exacerbated, by Islamic immigration.
It's all very well to imagine a utopian outcome
arising out of multicultural proselytising,
but this is the real world where the Koran, in fact,
preaches Islamic supremacism and death to the infidels.
It has done so for 1400 years.
What is your plan for stopping this relentless process?
To imagine it away?
It wasn't "fear which ate away the souls" of some
250,000,000 historical victims of Islamic barbarism:
http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/
More likely it was the head separating from the neck.
Islam and its naive apologists are a greater danger to the future of Australia than any "redneck".
You totally ignore the grim reality that, according to Islam,
Australia is Dar al-Harb and it is the duty of every follower of
Islam to work toward the day when the whole world becomes Dar al-Islam.

Alice Aslan, born in Turkey and now living in her second Anglo/Saxon country, has at least once before this article, made a point of insulting Australia and advising that Australia is a ‘multicultural’ country, and we just have to get used to it. At the time she wrote that, she received an understandable reaction from Australians who took exception to a foreigner telling them what they should get used to it. She must have been delighted to hear the opinion of fellow racist and ignoramus, Robin Williams. She also seems pleased that Left Anglo, self-hating Australians think along the same lines as Williams. While Williams is a nobody with nothing to do with Australia, the Left Australians are the real problem; they are maladapted in that, unlike most people, they tend to attack their own kind and believe that there is something fine and noble in buddying up to people who are unlike themselves, while rubbishing their own kind. Psychology has clearly identified these maladapted, malcontents who are becoming more prevalent among white, Westerners.

These left-wing cranks encourage the likes of Alice Aslan, who has been allowed to come to Australia, courtesy of our non-discriminatory immigration policy, to pontificate on subjects that most new comers avoid, if only because of their good manners and unwillingness to insult their hosts.

Alice Aslan, and those of her ilk, who come from non-Anglo, Third World countries - and Muslim countries like Turkey who are having trouble getting into the ECU because of their bad human rights history – then criticise the white, Anglo/Saxon havens that take them in, are at best extremely bad mannered and, at worst – and highly probable – dangerous to our culture and way of life. They already have enough raw troops in our Left-wing nutters.

Note how many of them flit from one Western country to another, spreading their ‘message’. I wonder where Alice Aslan will go next; bet it’s not a Muslim, non-Anglo, democratic country.

Alice writes from rhetoric and dogma. She writes

'Today, the majority of Australians from all walks of life have a negative opinion of Indigenous people. Indigenous Australians are associated mostly with alcohol abuse, dysfunctional family life, crime and welfare dependency. Even foreign visitors quickly form similar negative opinions through word of mouth once they set foot in Australia and avoid certain places in big cities because “Aborigines live there'

Have you lived in an area with many aboriginals? I have. Have you been had your house broken into by aborginals? I have chased a young aboriginal thief out of my house. Have you had aboriginal women beaten by aboriginal men in your front yard? I have several times of late. Have you had your car stolen by an aboriginal? My son has.

Until people funded by the Government get their facts right and take their racist blinkers off nothing will change. If you want to find out what true racism is like visit India and stop preaching your dogmas to the rest of us.

btw

considering the aboriginal population is less than 15% of the town am I just unlucky along with all the rest of the victims of crime or is there a sense of lawlessness among many of the aboriginal population. It does not take to many brains for the average joe to work out. Many of the newly arrived immigrants are more prepared to face the truth than cushioned city academics who need their funding to continue by saying the right things.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173287

TillyJ, Rubbish, Rubbish, Rubbish. The usual Loony, Left, Anti White Male, Diatribe delivered by a CARS, Communist, Anarchist, Radical, Socialist, who on this occasion happens to be female as well as foreign.

Multiculturalism was designed by the enemies of Western Democratic Culture to weaken & destroy it. Together with Fe"man"Nazism it was designed by our Communist enemies to simultaneously stop us breeding & import foreigners to take jobs from the few children, we have left.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

http://www.cruelhoax.ca/#top

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/01/2914561.htm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/camilla_cavendish/article7138520.ece

http://www.reich4.de/Begriffe/sittlichkeit/?lang=en

http://www.henrymakow.com/facebook.html

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173293

Kenny, They will never stop blaming you for everything & anything, victim culture, is what it is all about.

Multiculturalism, in some day dream world, might have some possibility of working, but the principle purpose, as it was with Fe"Man"Nazism, is to create competition for jobs & bankrupt our economy. Between 1945 & 1965 the gap between rich & poor was smaller. Now it is wider as a direct result of the ism's.

There are Aussies out there homeless &/or waiting for medical treatment, while Islamic immigrants are in 3 star motels or empty hospital buildings.

There are female, left wing, social workers from MICAH, out there, right now, rigging the stats on homelessness, in the lead up to the election.

The end game of the ism's is to create crime waves, followed by ever tighter, stronger, Laurenorder campaigns, leading to George Orwell's "1984" "Big Sista" nightmare a UN, NWO, 4th Reich.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173296

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173303

Proxy & Leigh, i see you guys have worked it out. These Loony, Left, wing nuts, have been going to all the worlds worst war zones to import an equal number of combatants from all sides of the conflict.

Then wonder why we are getting brawls, riots, at soccer matches.

Then mutter darkly about racial vilification laws when we complain about depleting government services, jobs, etc.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1052753/asylum-seeker-riot-leaves-three-injured

The Worst Racists are the Left Wing Nuts, they everybody white & male.

First, who cares what Robin Williams says?

This article appears rather tendentious,it assumes that racist attitudes originate from Anglo-Australians and then(naturally) the author assumes the moral high ground.Some examples of fallacious arguments-

"...racism in Australia mainly originates from racism against Aboriginal Australians" No,it has many origins,it's often brought to Australia by immigrants of (non-Anglo) ethnic origins.

"...some people purport to be opposing immigration on the grounds of economic and environmental reasons" Well,some might have a hidden agenda,however,there are sound economic and environmental arguments against high immigration rates and they have been presented on this site.

Islam is a religion not a race and attempts to equate disdain for Islamic superstitions with racism are dishonest.
Where's the evidence that multiculturalism challenges racism,what is 'multiculturalism' anyway? To what degree does the push for multiculturalism reflect racist attitudes within immigrant groups?

As to the treatment of indigenous people, I don't think I'd want to be an Armenian or Kurd in Turkey. The Turks conquered Anatolia from the Byzantines and Turkey's minority ethnic groups are still opressed,1000 years later--remember the Armenian genocide? Slow progress indeed,I hope indigenous Australians won't have to wait that long for justice.

Yes, I am probably a red neck now. I prided myself in being liberal accomodating and broadminded till the Australian's handling of the boat people showed another side of my previously held self-image.
I now dont give a damn what you say about me being a red neck. I only want my country emptied of these muscling into my country with their dirty tea cloth head gear and hated burquas and hijabs. God, how i hate them.
socratease

This explains better than anything I can say about Australian racism. In 2005 Eberhard and I were awarded the Queensland Multicultural Award for Small Business, the first year that this award was given out.

Another interesting article from Alice Aslan, eliciting some predictable responses from the usual suspects.

Aslan is quite correct that not all Australians are racists or "rednecks", as Williams put it. Far from it, of course, but there clearly remains a sizeable proportion of the population who are. They are usually the ones who bleat loudest about the supposed evils of multiculturalism.

She is also correct that the template for Australian racism is that which is still far too commonly directed at Indigenous people. That, along with the dreaded 'Yellow Peril' is where the infamous White Australia policy came from. The sentiment still expressed by some that 'Anglo-Australians' are somehow more Australian than non-Anglo (or worse, non-'white') immigrants derives from this cultural tradition.

Of course, such blatantly racist sentiments are generally unacceptable in polite company these days, so traditional Australian racism has morphed into the appalling Islamophobia we see expressed all too often in forums like this. The racists will claim that because Islam is a religion rather than a 'race', their bigotry isn't racism, but this is a disingenuous rationalisation at best.

She is also quite correct that "multiculturalism is still the best social and political system for societies based on migration since it provides institutional support to challenge racism". Australian society has been based on migration since 1788. Unfortunately, since about the middle of the 19th century "Anglo" Australians have been trying to maintain their dominance of the society, initially overtly but increasingly covertly since World War 2.

Equally unfortunately, the more they see their cultural hegemony 'threatened', the nastier and shriller they become. I feel sorry for them, because the days of Australia being an Antipodean outpost of 'White' culture are well and truly over.

I read the article with high hopes and was disappointed. Why do people feel the need to raise such issues without ever bringing anything new to the table? Aslan starts out promisingly, suggesting that we need to take the 'us and them' attitude away before we can progress. She then perpetuates the 'us and them' attitude by exploring only one kind of racism: the racism that DOES exist among much of the Anglo community. In her representation, it is a one-way stream of racism, with the whitefellas dishing out hate on everybody else. The same old arguments that have taken us nowhere several times before.

If she is suggesting that racism is, in fact, a two-way street (and if she is suggesting this, she has hidden the suggestion very well), then she is perpetuating the racism by assuming that the whitefellas are the 'bigger people' and should be the proactive ones who stop the racism.

Finally, an argument I found absurd was that the redneck Australians would take the time out to warn the migrant invaders about aborigines and, in doing so, spread their racism. Why would such a redneck, bogan group do such a thing? There are, I suspect, two causes for the spread of anti-aboriginal sentiment to immigrants:

1) Word of mouth. We tell people not to go up Flinders Mall in Townsville (for example) after the shops shut, because it can be dangerous and particularly unpleasant. Which it is.

2) First-hand experience. The immigrants venture up Flinders Mall, step on broken glass, get involved in domestics and have their wallets stolen.

Neither involves any signs of a reddened neck.

Dear Alice Aslan,

I also would like to add my voice
to Thank You for such an inspiring
article. Well written and reasoned.
And much food for thought.

To some people, it is self-evident
that their own norms, religion,
attitudes, values, and cultural
practices are right and proper,
while those of other groups may
seem inappropriate, peculiar,
bizarre, or even immoral.
Within limits, such ethnocentrism
can be functional for the group's
survival, for these attitudes
ensure it's members solidarity
and cohesion. People who believe that
their group and its way of life are
"best" will have faith and confidence
only in their own cultural tradition,
and will discourage penetration by
outsiders, and will unite to work for
their common goals. Pauline Hanson was
a "politician" as was John Howard,
who used this sort of mentality for their
own political advantage.

Thankfully, they both did not last.
Most people saw through their prejudiced
thoughts and found them - irrational,
illogical, and inconsistent.
These people fear things in proportion
to their ignorance of them. And the greater
the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.

However, these people will end up on the
dust heap of history. Most of us pay no
attention to them because we find them
irrelevant. Their concepts are vague and
sweeping in their scope - and they are
unfortunately psychologically prone
to prejudice - best to stay away from
people like that. (If you can).

The facts remain - Australia is a multi-
cultural society - and no matter what
the rants by the uneducated - it will
continue to remain and grow in spite
of these nutters. Which is something
for which we can all be grateful!

It is fascinating, but no longer surprising, that those who most
freely wield the racism and ignorance epithets are unable to refute
the critiques of Islam put forward by the "ignorant racists".
They are incapable of answering straightforward requests,
such as those asked above and repeated below:

Please indicate where around the globe any form of Islamic governance has produced positive human rights outcomes.
Please also indicate where Islamic laws or doctrine repudiate the countless calls to violence in the Koran.
Please offer an explanation for the massive over-representation of Islamic immigrants in European jails.
Please explain the massive over-involvement of Islamists in terrorist activities.
Please explain how Islam can be reformed, in light of the comments of Muslim experts who hold little hope.
Please advise how the problems of
female genital mutilation,
Islamic terrorism,
honour killings,
etc, etc, etc,
will be ameliorated, and not exacerbated, by Islamic immigration.

They cling with religious fervour to an ideology which proves ephemeral when examined in the cold light of history.

They celebrate the disappearance of their own culture's "hegemony",
while lauding a culture which demands death for those who stand in
the way of Islamic hegemony.
They can easily accommodate death threats against blasphemers of Islam
while condemning those who raise the issue.

They are the pathetic and tragic adherents of a doctrine of cultural
relativism which renders them incapable of responding to rational
debate simply because the answers they would find cannot be accommodated
within their paradigm.

They cannot admit the "inappropriateness, peculiarity, bizarreness",
let alone danger, of Islam because this would undermine their whole "rationale".

And then they have the unmitigated chutzpah to accuse their opponents
of being uneducated when they themselves have no desire or intent to
learn anything of Islam and its sordid history

The Robin Williams comment reminds me of the 'black face' saga on Hey Hey It's Saturday which was in itself an innocent enough skit of the Jacksons taken as something racist, understandably, from the African American experience in the US. Context is very important. In the US a skit like that could be seen as racist, in Australia where we take the mickey out of everyone it was not (IMO).

Having visited many other countries where racism is overt, where there is marked segregation of various populations based on race, I am grateful to be living in Australia. I worked within an organisation many years ago that hired an African American band, and they were amazed they could enter a shop here (and in the UK) without suspicious glances and were not scrutinised by our police forces.

The racist redneck stigma or race card is too easily drawn out in Australia for sometimes nefarious purposes including to avoid criminal prosecution.

Are there racists in Australia. Well of course there are. Can we do better - yes there is always room for improvement. The media tends to focus on the newsworthy dramas such as the 'redneck' opposition to the Muslim schools etc rather than the good news stories ie. Where people from different cultures live and work without incident in most parts of Australia.

I think we should be grateful we live here rather than in some parts of the world where the word tolerance has not even been coined.

If you want rednecks... or.. a manual on how to create them...just look at what moron, idiotic, racist magistrates say about White people.

TITLE:
"Pinned like a butterfly.. Whiteness and Racial Hatred Laws."
http://www.acrawsa.org.au/ejournalFiles/Volume%204,%20Number%202,%202008/O%27Connell%20Pinned%20Like%20a%20Butterfly%20FINAL.pdf

Magistrate :

xxxxxx FM finds that whites should
not be able to invoke the racial hatred
provisions of the Racial Discrimination
Act.

So.... is this kind of thinking likely to create an atmosphere of harmony and well being ? Hardly.

To my mind...that magistrate disqualified himself from EVER representing the Law of this land, as he openly claimed it should not apply to people on the basis of Skin Color or white racial background.

RACE DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975

Racial discrimination to be unlawful

(1) It is unlawful for a person to do any act involving a distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, COLOUR, descent or national or ETHNIC origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or fundamental freedom in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Rights to equality before the law

(1) If, by reason of, or of a provision of, a law of the Commonwealth or of a State or Territory, persons of a particular race, colour or national or ethnic origin do not enjoy a right that is enjoyed by persons of another RACE, COLOUR or national or ETHNIC origin, or enjoy a right to a more limited extent than persons of another race, colour or national or ethnic origin, then, notwithstanding anything in that law, persons of the first‑mentioned race, colour or national or ethnic origin shall, by force of this section, enjoy that right to the same extent as persons of that other race, colour or national or ethnic origin.

Can anyone actually believe that a "Magistrate" could find as the one above did ? It really happened.

WAKE UP Australia! The commies are not 'coming'..they are already here...on our Judiciary.

Thank you for this article. It always feels like we shy away from genuinely frank discussions about racism in Australia.

I am constantly amazed how people say that Australians are not racist, and then in the same breath will make a comment like "they don't look very Australian" or "they don't sound Australian". My own Mother has said this to my husband and I about something on the news one night. Whilst that was not particularly offensive...it WAS racist, and I hear small comments like that frequently. My husband is African by birth, but Australian by citizenship, and it makes me sad to think that others may never think of him as Australian, simply because his skin colour and his accent do not match theirs.

Those "rednecks" are part of the rich fabric of multiculturalism, like it or not.

What's up with "the usual suspects", don't you like that element of Australia, an element fully entitled to what they think, say and do?

Leave your prejudices behind you, and embrace the cultures you find here, rednecks included.

Australians racist ? By my experience in communities I have to say that the %age of racism in Australia is roughly thus; 50 % indigenous, 25 % non-white non-indigenous & 25 % white. Perhaps the scale is different in the dense population of the cities.
I base this on my observation that the indigenous place their loyalty towards their own kind no matter how right or wrong. For me loyalty towards integrity is #1. My loyalty towards a friend ceases as soon as I believe he/she is doing wrong. If I point the finger at wrongdoing race does not come into the equation. Why does it make someone a racist when someone from another race is doing something wrong ? That's a matter of right or wrong , not racism !

Country girl,

What point are you making?' Culture'is not synonymous with 'race',so what's the significance of a 'multicultural' award? If, in fact, they were equivalent terms 'multicultural awards' would be, in my opinion, rather patronising and er.....'racist',as they would single out ethnic groups as special categories and therefore not part of mainstream society.Why not 'Australian awards'?

CJ Morgan,

<<The racists will claim that because Islam is a religion rather than a 'race', their bigotry isn't racism,
but this is a disingenuous rationalisation at best.>>

What you say is complete balderdash, as we've come to expect.

I know from speaking to others that the following are not my sentiments alone:

Arab Christians, you are more than welcome to come to Australia to escape
the 1400 years of persecution by Muslims in the Middle East.

Arab Muslims, if you believe in the Koran, which clearly exhorts all Muslims to
"kill the disbelievers wherever you find them"(Sura 2:191),
then please stay in the Middle East.

Does that make me a racist or merely anti-Islamic?

Why don't you actually read up on Islam CJ?

You're free and easy with the word bigotry, but you don't seem to understand what it actually signifies.

Re: “The spread of anti-aboriginal sentiment to immigrants”

How might such sentiment develop?

A young Asian woman related the following to me just the other day .

“My daughter had to fight long and hard to get into dentistry – and we worked long hours to get enough money to afford coaching for her.
Just down the hall from my daughter is a girl of aboriginal descent, she got into the same faculty the easy way ”

From our relationship I doubt anyone prompted her –her experience of life in multicultural Australia nurtured that sentiment!

When you start distributing benefits/rights on the basis of ethnic identity you create inter-group discord.

Yes,Proxy,

Moslems aren't a 'race' anymore than communists are a 'race'(if there are any left). The equation of race and religion is simply a tactic to silence criticism of those repugnant ideologies that threaten our liberties.There are many 'useful idiots' who are conned by this trick, unfortunately.

Very Perceptive Mac...

yep..there are a couple.. maybe just a few more..not many.. definitely a sad minority.. who would vilify National Socialism as 'odious'...but when more clearly expressed ideas of hate, loathing and racism are found in another ideology.. they are mute.. see no evil hear no evil and speak no evil..

It's a concern when people who claim a decent education come up with rubbish like this.. it's complete irrationality and has no academic merit whatsoever.. to the point where it makes you wonder if they ever completed a critical essay on anything.

Only an irrational fool would equate religion with race. The simple fact that 'white' caucasians can be Muslim and equally subject to the criticism of their ideas or beliefs would convince all but the most bigoted hater of truth.

Bigoted anti australian racist fearmongering is a huge challenge here.. we need to combat it wherever we find it. Don't let it get any air mate. Expose PC bigotry at every opportunity. All they do is generate an odious fear and loathing for people based on their political or religious opinions. I suppose we should add "sheer hypocrisy" to the list of things to denounce :)

Here is a site which is one of the most loathesome examples of this awful blight on our society.
Please check it out.. you won't believe how racist it is.

http://www.acrawsa.org.au/

Mac,
You have it right in one.

I have long been opposed to the ideology of multiculturalism, because I see it as divisive and a philosophy that rates original culture above national loyality. Each time we adjust to accomodate some aspect of another culture, we compromise our own.

Usually when one projects these views I am attacked by CJM and his ilk, calling me 'xenophobic' or 'racist'. which does not worry me as I know the object is to put others on the defensive.

Now I notice that this author is introducing a new term of 'cultural racism'. What she is doing is expanding the term racism to encompice not only race but cultures as well. She is altering the term to meet her requirements because the word 'racism' still has more impact that cultural opposition.

I have always maintained that Aus is multi-racial but not multicultural as all our basic governance and social standards come from one source and there is not one other culture that we embrace in its entirity. A couple do come close, but some aspects of other cultures are simply not acceptable.

It is good to see that the government continues to ignore the multiculturalists and fosters integration and this should be encouraged.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173394

Banjo, i tend to agree with most of what you said, but it is worse than that now.

The "Multiculturalists" completely infiltrated the Red/green/getup/labour coalition over 5 decades ago. They are CARS, Communist, Anarchist, Radical, Socialists.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

What does ALP stand for?

Anti-Australian
Loony, Left, Wing-Nut, Lesbian,
Perversions.

They are all bigots who hate, loathe, despise, white, working & middle class Aussies. Fe"Man"Nazism is their Male Hatred wing & "Multiculturalism" is their, Hate all Whites from a European, or worse still, British background wing.

No Australian child will be safe until ASIO starts investigating, Re-Educating these criminally, insane, "Fifth Columnists".

They have been using/abusing "Multiculturalism" to import dysfunctional people, who will clog our jails & public hospital system. This is ET, Economic Terrorism, designed to bankrupt our economy.

They import equal numbers of combatants from all sides of the worlds worst war zones, then we get brawls & riots at soccer matches.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1052753/asylum-seeker-riot-leaves-three-injured

The refurbished "Curtin" centre in WA is surrounded by fences & guards. Not to stop immigrants from escaping, but to keep "Homeless" Aussies out. Having shown on TV last night, the luxurious standard of accommodation being laid on to welcome the Islamic Terrorists, many "Homeless" Aussie, Swaggies will be hitch hiking their way across OZ, demanding to be allowed in.

I was thinking that Loony, Left, Leadership of the Red/green/getup/labour coalition had taken bribes from "Big Business" to throw the next election, but just when you think new records for criminally, insane, stupidity have been broken, along comes the new "Curtin" Immigration Resort.

Now the only possible explanation for this madness is that, knowing they are losing the next election. They are deliberately trying to make government policy so horribly, bad that it will incite, armed rebellion. Then they will be able to declare martial law, bring the military in & cling to power with a UN, NWO, 1984, "Big Sista" 4th Reich.

Banjo,

I agree with your comments on 'muticulturalism as an ideology' and in regard to its possible dysfunctions. Liberal democratic states are intrinsically multicultural as they allow citizens wide scope within society to practise religion and execise their poltical rights. I haven't read any coherent explanation from its promoters as to just what 'multiculturalism' is, and how far it will be pushed, instead we get the sort of platitudes expressed in Alice Aslan's article. Are some 'multiculturalists' promoting an Ottoman-style state with separate and independent communities,each with its own culture?
As someone who regards liberal democracy as superior to all other political and social organisations I need to get answers to these questions.
Immigrants come to this country because Australian society produces economic and political benefits that their homelands lack and they have to recognise that some of their cultural baggage is counter- productive to liberal democracy.

As a general observation,I don't think that democratic governments have any role at all in the promotion of multiculturalism, it's, like religion, basically not their business.

Aslan, I grew up in Cabramatta in the 1990's (yeah, I deserve a medal I know)

You want to know who looked down on Aboriginies the most? Asians? The ones I hung out were heaps racist, towards Aussies and Aboriginies.

YOu have no idea at all. Your a middle-class identity crisis person, who has roots in non-Anglo world, but lives in Anglo world and KNOWS it's the best.

Our laws are tolerant, the laws of ALL non-western countries are utter filth. Filth. Racist trash.

Only western Europeans are tolerant, and we let third worlders come here and what do they do? Make our suburb drug capital of whole country!

Lebanese Muslims 10% of prison population yet only make up 2% of country? Why? Racism from us? Are you kidding!

Sorry, and I'm glad Europe has woken up and gave heaps of seats to Geert Wilders, we western countries have had enough of the racist, caste system like values of the non-west.

Whites flee the suburbs because of the racial bashings, and rapes, and intimidation.

YOU are so ignorant ASLAN, it makes me sick to even see someone from a racist culture from non-west lecture whitey on tolerance. We wrote the book on it.

I just read her other article about why Australians don't like mosques being built. Are you for real?

Your MAIN, that is MAIN, cleric, the former mufti hilbilly hilali, was saying racist redneck things for a decade yet his mosque was full every Friday. Why?

Because your people are REDNECKS! If a church minister said anything remotely like he did, i.e. women deserver to be raped, white people are evil, jews run the world through sex (there is the bizarre islamic values coming out) 9/11 was good, and so on, they would be excommunicated.

But in your culture, he is SUPPORTED! You should tell Muslims to stop being so racist, Anglophobic (if only they were with our Centrelink payments too, we'd save heaps!) and accept us. After all, it is our country!

Imagine how the indigenous feel? Nobody treats them worse than third worlders. I've seen it growing up in racist, insular western Sydney with it's pockets of third world trash countries.

And the one about Australian Anglo tribalism?! What! The closest we come mate is over a football match!

Tribalism is something known to your own kind. Wouldn't mind getting your thoughts on the Armenian Genocide? Or does your tribalism block you from thinking about it as a genocide!

How dare you lecture us on anything. Our values in the west have gone beyond tribalism, the problem is we have let in a whole bunch of redneck cultures like Muslims - where tribalism is at murderous levels!

'afternoon all...

Wow, mention any epithet...redneck, racist, bigot, xenophobe, etc etc...and you'll certainly attract a crowd ?

I suppose if I carefully and honestly examine my own private views and beliefs, then perhaps I'm all of those things !

I wonder if the above descriptions are learnt, or are they deeply entrenched and enduring within one's character ?

On ANZAC Day, our Political masters when addressing Veterans, often wheel out that tired old chestnut - "...you blokes fought for your country; for our freedon; and the right to free speech..." ?

Do we enjoy free speech ? I don't belive so. Yet, (as a veteran) I'm told each April 25, that's what we fought for ?

Further, if I were to publicly declare, that I don't believe we should permit any further immigration of folk from the African continent, because of......? Gee, I'd be pilloried and denigrated with all manner of derogatory and pejorative labels.

So, at nearly seventy years of age, I must learn to keep my mouth shut - tightly ! Lest those of the left loudly, lambaste and denounce me for being a 'whatever' ?

You know something...we really are a gutless, weak and feeble country, when we can't even stand up to those critics abroad, who dictate to us who and what refugees we MUST accept. For fear of being labeled racist.

And as a retired copper, I can tell you, just how successful we've been, with the resettlement and assimilation of some of these people. But eh, that's another issue isn't it ?

Cheers...Sung Wu.

thanks a sung wu you sum it up accurately. You also highlight we are all red necks especially those who immigrate here and insist we adjust to their culture or religion. Our Police force would be heaps lower if it was not for many of the minority groups intolerance.

o sung wu,

I think your post is interesting. As a veteran, do you believe that you fought for freedom of speech? I don't know what war(s) or conflict(s) you fought in, but I can't think of a single war in which Australia's freedom of speech was at stake. I think it would be much less patronising to veterans if we found out what they really fought for, rather than assuming that they fought for any particular, arbitrarily imposed ideals.

That said, do you really think we have no freedom of speech? I have lived in a country without freedom of speech, and it seems to me that we have a lot of freedom here. What we have, though, is a responsibility to accept the consequences for our words. Just as you are free to call for a ban on immigration without any legal ramifications, others are free to call you racist without any consequences, either. That's freedom of speech at work - the freedom to express opposing opinions. Of course, if you call for people to go out and kill immigrants (which I'm sure you wouldn't), and someone actually did, then you would have to accept responsibility for those words.

I'd be interested to hear your views - maybe I am misunderstanding your idea that we don't have freedom of speech.

"Moreover, the most important thing of all is a reminder that Australians need to come to terms with their history and learn to look to the future with more confidence and hope in order to become a more cosmopolitan, ethical, prosperous and pluralistic society. Otherwise fear eats the soul."

Why should I? I've no interest in becoming cosmopolitan, I am related to about a quarter of the black fellas in northern Australia (by marriage/adoption) and am not interested in living in a pluralistic society of any shape or form.

The "fear that eats the soul" might well be that of bulk of our population, who have little to no idea what the Country looks, smells, tastes & feels like. The climate, the terrain and the locals can be harsh & unforgiving.

When one makes an effort to learn exactly what it is that makes these parts of Australia what they are, and the denizens thereof the people they are, then one might feel more or less afraid. It depends very much upon whether or not one is willing to try and fit in, if you are, it is a friendly place full of helpful souls who will give the shirt off their back to help you out, on the other hand it is a lonely mongrel of a place that will eat you alive if you refuse.

It isn't so much that Australian's are Rednecks, it is just that life in certain areas requires a willingness to pitch in and help, whether it be fire, flood or whatever. Those who have no concept of this, don't last long and feel that people didn't take the time to befriend them. That is the wrong way round, you earn their trust and their friendship, it doesn't come on a platter.

The reality is, in the "real" Australia, you look after (1) your own, (2) family & (3) friends, anybody else is not your concern, there's more than enough to be getting on with. Anybody who chooses not to fit into one of those categories, they'd best help themselves.

For examples of racist bigotry and disgraceful prejudice, one need look no further than the situation below.

Here (and I'm going to repeat this many times until it sinks in) we have an example.

THE LAW. (Race discrimination Act)

Section 9 RACIAL DISCRIMINATION UNLAWFUL.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to do any act involving a distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or fundamental freedom in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

SECTION 10 RIGHTS TO EQUALITY BEFORE THE LAW

(1) If, by reason of, or of a provision of, a law of the Commonwealth or of a State or Territory, persons of a particular race, colour or national or ethnic origin do not enjoy a right that is enjoyed by persons of another race, colour or national or ethnic origin, or enjoy a right to a more limited extent than persons of another race, colour or national or ethnic origin, then, notwithstanding anything in that law, persons of the first&#8209;mentioned race, colour or national or ethnic origin shall, by force of this section, enjoy that right to the same extent as persons of that other race, colour or national or ethnic origin.

FEDERAL MAGISTRATE STEWART BROWN begs to differ....

Brown FM finds that whites should
not be able to invoke the racial hatred
provisions of the Racial Discrimination
Act.
http://www.acrawsa.org.au/ejournalFiles/Volume%204,%20Number%202,%202008/O%27Connell%20Pinned%20Like%20a%20Butterfly%20FINAL.pdf
Page 7..right hand side.

Now..cut this cake any way you like.. that magistrate is being racially discriminatory. You can read the law..and you can read how he flagrantly disregarded it.

I just responded, then read through all the other responses...

Interesting, why EXACTLY do people associate lunacy with the LEFT? I'd put the majority of the pro-PC/Multiculturalism loons dead center, with the others who have no firm views about anything of any import either.

Personally, I think the actual LEFT needs rebuilding, it needs to address the needs and desires of "normal" Australians in "normal" communities... The funny thing is, Pauline Hanson, running as a Liberal, then as an ex-Liberal Independent, actually had the temerity to give a non-PC voice to these people, despite the fact that they FORMED the Labor Party (not the limp-wristed, latte sipping, upwardly mobile PC-twits who run it, but the ones who BUILT it).

I personally have had a gut full of the way these idiots treat the electorate, they play on the fact that certain families are diehard unionists/ALP supporters, whilst simpering into their lattes about how "bogan" they all are. We just had Irfan on here lecturing us on the same thing...

Quite simply, unless and until the migrant community or the multiculturalism for ever clowns, actually form the bulk of the voting population of the more far-flung electorates, you'd best get used to it. Yeah, it's OUR culture, we value it, we have no intention of changing and that is that.

I see no reason why our culture is worth any less than yours, or Joe al-Bloggses, so I refuse to assimilate, so what? Seems to be all the rage nowadays...

Hang on, why am I in the only group that you are allowed to call upon to assimilate? I mean, HREOC would be all over me if I tried it on you..

PS Robin Williams, oh yeah, Mork & Mindy... Used to be an actor & comic, then a drug addict... Relevance scale = zip.

I found the article very informative, it's interesting how some anglo Australians don't like hearing negative stereotypes but are quite happy to stereotype other races, especially Aboriginal people.

I was reading one comment by an anglo Australian who points out that he has witnessed Aboriginal people fighting on his lawn, his house being broken into and his son having his car stolen by an "Aboriginal".

I can assure you that Aboriginal people too have had their houses broken into, have had their cars stolen and have also witnessed domestic violence on their front lawn, by anglo Australians.

It's interesting that people always talk about personal experiences, thinking that crime is coloured. Crime comes in all colours and Aboriginal people aren't the only race committing crime, statistically more anglo-Australians commit crime then Aboriginal people.

In regards to alcohol contrary to public perception, surveys have in fact found that proportionally fewer Aboriginal people drink alcohol than whites do.

It's interesting that the national slogan is "work hard and drink hard", it's the Aussie way. Or is this slogan only targeted towards "white Australian"?

Read more: http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-alcohol-consumption.html#ixzz0qbBhIFxq

It's also interesting that Police recently lobbied for laws to change around consuming alcohol after 3:00am because of the violence in Australia. And they weren't talking about Aboriginal people, they were talking about the general population.

So to those people who get sick of hearing about the "race card" then don't regurgitate a response by using "racist rhetoric".

Quayle, I agree with the gist of your post - crime is not coloured. Crime is often a symptom of deprivation and poverty, though, which is possibly why crime rates tend to be higher in areas with large indigenous populations. I live in such an area, and will note that the only crimes committed against my property have been committed by Aboriginal people. But I put that down to the concentration of Aboriginal people in the area, making it more likely that an Aboriginal person will commit a crime or, conversely, do a good deed, at any given time. I don't attribute it to any inherent "badness" in our indigenous population.

I do have to ask where you get your statistics from. For example, you state that "statistically more anglo-Australians commit crime then Aboriginal people". Is this because there are more Anglo-Australians, or are you referring to percentages? If it is the latter, then why are indigenous people over-represented (statistically) in our prisons? And please don't just reply that the legal system is inherently racist. I sincerely doubt that the majority of judges and magistrates in our country are "out to get" black people.

Quayle
Otokonoko makes some good points.

Using the race card inappropriately does just as much damage to racial relations as outright prejudice. Same goes for those who accuse someone of rape only to find out later the charges were bogus and retracted.

There is no point talking about Indigenous disadvantage including higher incarceration rates and then pretending Indigenous crime does not exist. We need to ask why and then do something to turn the situation around.

Interesting enough our Police force could be reduced by 80% if you take away aboriginal crime from my town. Given that they make up only 10-15% of the population you have to be in outright denial if you can't see the problem. Our prison has 90% plus aboriginals. Some of my best friends are aboriginals and they are first to acknowledge the problems. Its a pity so many academics shove their head in the sand or try to impress the inept political UN instead of coming out of denial.

For once I agree with Pelican who writes

'There is no point talking about Indigenous disadvantage including higher incarceration rates and then pretending Indigenous crime does not exist. We need to ask why and then do something to turn the situation around.'

The easy option is obviously to label the many victims of crime racist. One of our new arrivals from Sth Africa thought they were getting away from house break ins etc. They were sadly disappointed. Then again they must be racist!

Otokonoko, "As a veteran, do you believe that you fought for freedom of speech? I don't know what war(s) or conflict(s) you fought in, but I can't think of a single war in which Australia's freedom of speech was at stake."

Are you kidding? Ever heard of the bombing of Darwin and Kokoda for starters? If the US had not lost thousands of lives defending us in the Battle of the Coral Sea it is London to a brick few of us might ever have been born, let alone have the freedom of speech we should treasure.

Otokono, I'm from Townsville and I assure you, the local Magistrates and the terms they give for the same offence, with the same record, to aboriginal defendants EXCEED dramatically those given to white's from the suburbs (excluding those from Wulguru, Oonoonba, West End or North Ward).

One thing I have noticed, given that my family remains there (and deal with prisoners), is that although the demographics of Townsville have changed DRAMATICALLY over the last 20 years (about doubled in size), the same suburbs still make up the vast bulk of the prison population (regardless of race).

As a juvenile in Townsville I was subjected to continued, serious Police Harassment (Town High, shrug), and witnessed most of my friends (and enemies - Town High, it was simple if you were white you fought the blacks & vice-versa, I'm now friends with most of both, go figure). The obvious response from adolescents to continued harassment is in reality a self-fulfilling prophecy, particularly when you factor in the fact that the parents/families of these adolescents had been subjected to this as well.

I'm lucky, I got out of the place before I ended up on the merry-go-round (Jail-Parole-Charge-Bail)... Funny thing is, those older suburbs are majorly over-represented in Stuart Ck Correctional Facility, and I put it to you that it is the constant harassment of adolescents that is a major factor in it.

Then again, Townsville has changed. I visited my family a while back, to see on the front page, that some clown had been belted by his girlfriends ex-husband IN OONOONBA? Damn, it got reported? I mean, that ain't the Oonoonba I remember, I've seen stabbings down there go unreported.

Get off the white & black thing mate, Johnathon Thurston was arrested outside his own house? Why? Because he was black & didn't fit in in a rich suburb. Did he complain? Nope, he was treated like any other black fella in Townsville, ie. like crap.

Between that and pigs getting away with murder? Careful, Townsville is not a smart place to get too loud with the race card.

Custard,

Johnathan Thurston?
Bollocks it was because he was black and didn't fit in with the rich suburb. Johnathan is a fine footballer, but he himself admitted he was a party animal who drank to excess. He said the rest of the team had to take him in hand. Any young fellow found paralytic from booze or drugs will most likely end up charged and in the watch-house, how else are the cops going to ensure the person is safe (duty of care) and maybe learns something from his mistake?

There can't be too much 'discrimination' against Johnathan, he was after all one of Cleo magazine's 50 Most Eligible Bachelors for 2006.

Custard's right. I left Townsville about 10 years ago, after having lived there for nearly 20 years. I was married there, my two youngest were born there, and my father died there.

It's the most racist place I've ever lived in. These days, it's not just confined to the 'whites'. Indeed, it's probably the reason I still speak out strongly against racism.

Having said that, there are many good people who have been working hard for decades to address the racist culture, with great success in some areas but also demonstrable failures in others. I was up there about 18 months ago for my father's funeral, and I was appalled at how bad the place has got.

When I moved there it was a big, hot, dusty and friendly redneck town. Now it's superficially more attractively modern and green, but in some parts it has crime rates to rival the worst of the big southern cities.

I'm immensely depressed when I read Otonoko's account of Flinders Mall. I remember it as a nice place, where the community gathered for weekly markets, music performances and public celebrations. We took my eldest daughter there for New Year's Eve one year back in the mid 80s, dressed as a fairy.

What's happened?

Otokonoko

In the Australian context, racialized assumptions about Aboriginal inferiority have been fundamental to the way Indigenous people have been treated by the colonial state: from the denial of Indigenous sovereignty, to imprisonment on reserves and the stealing of children, to current criminal law and practice which undermines Aboriginal governance and rights to self-determination. In contemporary Australia, racialization has enabled the massive criminalisation and imprisonment of Indigenous people throughout the country.

Aboriginal people because they are more likely to have a previous record and are more likely to be arrested for the types of offences defined in the legislation (such as property damage).

In relation to the judiciary, the terms have usually been taken to refer to directly observable differences in sentencing outcomes based on Aboriginality. Although the distinction between direct and indirect discrimination is made in anti-discrimination legislation, such a distinction does not appear to have been taken up when considering judicial decisions. 'Racism' is a far broader category implying the processes through which one group of people are deemed to be essentially different to, and lesser than, those who dominate. It is also a systematic set of both ideas and practices which explain and perpetuate racial division. Racism need not be consciously articulated as a policy or personal belief - it may well be inherent in the structural and routine processes of an institution. It can be thought of in terms of direct and indirect practices. Racism is clearly one reason which explains why so many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are processed by the criminal justice system.

by Professor Chris Cunneen,
Conjoint Professor
University of Sydney , PhD. in Criminology, 2000.
University of Sydney , MA. in History, 1982.
University of New South Wales , DipEd. 1977.
University of New South Wales, BA. 1976.

explains why so many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are processed by the criminal justice system.
Quayle,
That's exactly right. If many of them didn't become so abusive & let out their racism into the open then their numbers would be a hell of a lot lower in the criminal justice system. They only get arrested for being stroppy when under the influence. When sober, no-one bothers. It's not colour people object to, it's attitude. Just because a white australian behaves like a pain doesn't make him a racist neither is an indigenous. When will the morons in our midst ever comprehend what racism means rather than using it as the bandwagon hymn. Are Australians really rednecks ? Many are, many are not ! Many migrants are rednecks as are many indigenous, just as there are many decent migrants & indigenous.

Otokonoko can speak for his/her self , I ‘m not trying to pre-empt what that might be. I’ll comment only on what I see as a masterly piece of evasion.

Otokonoko asks a question : “I do have to ask where you get your statistics from. For example, you state that 'statistically more anglo-Australians commit crime then Aboriginal people'. Is this because there are more Anglo-Australians, or are you referring to percentages? If it is the latter, then why are indigenous people over-represented (statistically) in our prisons? And please don't just reply that the legal system is inherently racist.” ---seems mild mannered in tone, and a fair enough question!

I’ll repeat the core issue: (Quayle, you said)“statistically more anglo-Australians commit crime then Aboriginal people Is this because there are more Anglo-Australians, or are you referring to percentages?” ".(interestingly, Quayle says “anglo –Australians" but doesn’t balance it with Aboriginal–Australians!)

But what does Otokonoko get, a whole lot of--straight of the political correct handbook "the legal system is inherently racist" rhetoric — And, for good measure, a shotgun blast of resumé whose only purpose seems to be to say “ I’m an expert and beyond challenge”

Perhaps there are no statistics which show that anglo-Australians percentage-wise are more prone to commit crime then Aboriginal people --perhaps he just made it up !
(at the very least, it might be very amusing to see him stumble around trying to sift “Anglo-Australians” from other Australians of European stock, other than Anglo)

Dear Quayle

You said:

//to current criminal law and practice which undermines Aboriginal governance and rights to self-determination//

I don't mean to upset your 1650 time warp thinking there, but Indigenous Austalians do not have a right to self determination other than that allowed by Australian law.

-They do not have sovereignty
-They do not have 'national' self determination.

If they did, they could do what Michael Mansell tried and liase with Colonal Gadaffi for 'help' in achieving even greater 'sovereignty' over other non aboriginal Aussies.

PRIVILEGEnotRIGHT
What they DO have.. is the privilege and freedom to operate within the guidelines set out by Australian (white/post colonial) law as established by the process of history.

If they wish to change that legal or power structure.. they can only do it by one means. "war" and I doubt they would do this.

LAW/PROTEST.
The only other method available is to incrementally undermine 'White' (for the sake of a term) sovereignty using the methods preferred by PC/MC left soft marxists.. ie.. protest..legal change.. human rights law and political support of communist unions and the neo Marxist Greens.

ACADEMIC SEDITION.
http://www.acrawsa.org.au/ is an example of that. "Critical Whiteness studies" ? ? ?

BACKLASH
That will work to a point.. until the rest of Australia wakes up to what is going on..and then the potential for a violent and tragic backlash becomes very real.

Individual you ask the question: Are Australians really rednecks ? Then answer: Many are, many are not ! Many migrants are rednecks as are many indigenous, just as there are many decent migrants & indigenous.

Thank you, given that is what the article asks?

I just find it interesting that when someone disagrees and refers to evidence based facts, then their evidence comes from a "moron using the bandwagon hymn" or they will automatically make a generalisation about the "whole race".

Individual, not every Aboriginal becomes abusive and a racist under the influence, some do and some don't and not every Aboriginal who is arrested is a racist.

And yet he was arrested for trying to break into his own house (having forgotten the keys)... How many people here have had to break into their own house on at least one occasion?

How many had the police called on them? How many, having had the Police called on them, were actually hauled in and charged?

I'd say not one...

CJ, funny, yeah Townsville is/was a friendly redneck sort of Town... Nobody thought anything bad about it...

The problem with Flinders St Mall started with Mooney's drive to clean up the park so that the Council could sell it for unit developments. The parkies on the whole, were inveterate alcoholics, who were not welcome in their communities, although they were rarely violent (except when deliberately provoked, ie. the trifecta, Drunk & Disorderly, Resist Arrest, Assault Police, and the cop got a nice payout from the victims of crime fund plus compo)...

It has long been racist as all hell, the blacks don't like white people and vice versa, especially in the older suburbs. Now, we have new suburbs springing up on the floodplains that were badly inundated several times when I lived there, the inhabitants (and the houses) look like they have been lifted straight out of Sydney/Melbourne and put in these cookie-cutter suburbs. They have no concept of the underlying racial tension and are as likely to be preyed upon by the older white families as the black.

The fact that they have bought their inherently racist, "I'm not racist, but..." culture with them, makes them flinch or appear scared when confronted by the local indigenous groups, who take it as a sign of weakness and that is that.

Yup, Townsville, it was friendly but by god it was vicious... (I saw that piddly little "fracas" on TV from Melbourne last night... If I didn't know better I'd place the "doers" from Townsville - it is the same modus operandii I grew up with, except no-one was kicked on the ground, and it was reported - it certainly wouldn't have been in Townsville).

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm a bit alarmed that some thought I was playing the race card - what I was trying to say was far from that. I questioned Quayle's statistics to get a better understanding of them, and I noted that, when one lives in a largely black neighbourhood, it is obviously more likely that the people you see doing good OR bad things will be black. When someone ducks through the hole in my fence carrying the clothes off my washing line, I'm unsurprised that the person is black. If I lived in a much "whiter" neighbourhood, I would be more surprised by that. Similarly, if I was mugged by a white person at 4:00 in the afternoon on Flinders Mall, I'd be surprised because there aren't that many white people around there at that hour. Sorry if I seemed to be playing the race card. I was just commenting on the odds.

I think the decline of the Mall has been caused by three factors: the development of the shopping centres out in the suburbs, which took the shoppers away; the development of the Strand, which took the events away; and the development of surrounding areas, which supplanted the parkies and forced them into the Mall. Now the Mall is being redeveloped and reopened to traffic. It'll be interesting to see where the parkies will pop up next. It's like the gypsies I saw when I was in Athens. They are constantly being moved on, hidden around a corner somewhere, but the underlying problem is not addressed. It's all about a clean facade, rather than a nice, clean and harmonious town.

It is completely misleading to focus on racism as the 'problem' in places like Townsville, when reducing crime, in particular violent crime, is what authorities should be concentrating on.

Crimes are commited through choice, because the offenders enjoy the adrenalin of crime and the easy life of no routine, no responsibility and no work. Indigenous people too want these offenders dealt with and it is a shame that the victim industry doesn't represent the real victims who are those affected by crime.

However there is no Guvvy gravy train for those who advocate for victims of crime and that is the difference. For those who commit crime and get busted for it, there is no work and no responsibility in gaol either and maybe that should be changed as well.

Townsville's tough streets could contribute workers (colour of skin is no impediment) to build infrastructure for indigenous communities in remote areas of Queensland. Being a guest of Her Majesty is not so attractive where offenders are obliged to live in temporary camps and do some hard yakka from 5.00 am on to earn their keep. However there are many men and women who voluntarily live like that for their whole lives, earn a pittance and are fiercely independent, eschewing the easy life in town bludging on government hand-outs and welfare. They are not the squeaky wheels that do-gooders might notice and of course there is no money in them either for the advocates, lawyers and consultants of the victim industry. There are no OLO articles devoted to them but that comes as no surprise either.

AlGoreisRight in regards to your statement:

I don't mean to upset your 1650 time warp thinking there, but Indigenous Austalians do not have a right to self determination other than that allowed by Australian law.

I do not have a 1650 time warp, but Indigenous people do have a right to self determination unless offered under Australian law, self determination should never be a right that needs to be practice under Australian law, it should be an inherent right to be able to make and have choices not based on race. But in saying that I have seen Aboriginal people practice their self-determination rights, Mabo for one challenged his rights to his lands and the concept of "terra-nullius" empty continent, land belonging to no-one and won, hence the Native Title Legislation.

I am a bit amazed that you believe that self-determination equates war, you've really pulled a long bow there, and in regards to governance there are many Aboriginal people who practice governance everyday in their communities.

My point was that for the majority of Aboriginal people their rights aren't recognised under the Australian legal system, but I have certainly seen legislation changes to accommodate Aboriginal rights.

The Native Title Act, the NSW Land Rights Act, Intellectual Copyright Act, UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, and many more areas of law have changed. My point is there are many more areas of law that needs to accommodate Indigenous people's rights to self-determination and Aboriginal people have exercised their rights not through blood shed, nor violence, but through patience and lobbying government, court challenges, media, etc, because that is our rights as Indigenous people and as Australian citizens.

If the purpose of any article on OLO is to stimulate discussion, then clearly this one is a winner.
I have to say I thought the author's arithmetic was a little cute:
"But today one fifth (or 20%) of the population in Australia was born overseas, and almost 20 per cent (or one fifth) of the population has one or both parents who were born overseas."
Well yeah, that would make sense, wouldn't it?
And if a significant number of these 20%(or one fifth) also disapproved of boat people (as polls suggest they do), what does that make them?
Ethnic rednecks?
I'd like to pick up on a point Banjo made, about us being multiracial, rather than multicultural. In my (limited) experience of blackfella culture, many still appear to have a tribal attitude to private ownership; ie what belongs to one, belongs to all.
I know my blackfella mates are very careful to lock up everything they own.
This is clearly a cultural thing, which gets little or no truck with the (whitefella) law.

Hi Otokonoko,

Firstly I think it's interesting because I didn't answer your question after a set time frame that people have automatically assumed that I have avoided your question. I did mean to get back to you, but other things took precedents and some other opinions caught my attention, to which I felt an impulse to reply to theirs, with the intention of getting back to you.

Now in regards to the statistics of crime verses the statistics of imprisonment. Imprisonment is not a measurement of crime, but moreso a measurement of who and how many people receive a prison sentence.

I agree the imprisonment of Aboriginal people is 13 per cent higher in NSW and 37 per cent higher in Australia. The imprisonment rate has risen because Aboriginal people are more likely to be refused bail and the number of Aboriginal people on remand, it doesn't mean that more Aboriginal people commit crime.

I was also talking about more non-Aboriginal people in the general population are more likely to commit crime and yet people appear to just focus on the prison population, assuming crime is greater in the Aboriginal population.

I never said that Aboriginal people don't commit crime, I just said that crime comes in all colours. I did respond to your question partly by cutting and pasting Professor Chris Cunneen's research when I replied. Yes, a bit sloppy, but not with the intention to say "I'm a professional, don't question me" I was just being lazy at the time and well the reality is sometimes people shouldn't make uneducated statements without backing their beliefs or statements by evidence, because that's how ignorance, racism and stereotypes flourish.

Hi MamaChui, in the cities and country where I have lived and live, there is a small percentage of people who pass curious comments when coming across a person who has either been born overseas or has an accent. More out of curiosity and interest to learn, as opposed to being racist thereby not accepting that person.

Most people I mix with through work and socially were either born overseas or here, however travel extensively, mix with people of all origins regularly and are not racist. For the small number who are racist for whatever reason: "Forgive them, for they know not what they are truly doing" ie the profound hurt inflicted born out of ignorance and fear

Quayle: "Indigenous Austalians do not have a right to self determination other than that allowed by Australian law."

Well, yes. And in amongst all those common rights, is the right to self-determination: how does the right to organise one's fellows conflict with Australian law ? People have the right to go off and live pretty much as they like, wherever they like, if they gather the resources. What else do you have in mind by 'self-determination' ?

Terra nullius ? I don't think it was ever law in Australia: in every pastoral lease agreement, there was this clause:

"And reserving to aboriginal inhabitants of the said State and their descendants during the continuance of this lease full and free right of egress and regress into upon and over the said lands and every part thereof and in and to thesprings and surface waters theris and to make and erect and to take anduse for food, birds and animals ferae naturae in such manner as they would have been entitled to if this lease had not been made."

I'm fascinated by that last phrase: Aboriginal people had these rights on Crown Land as well as pastoral leases ? So where is the Terra Nullius ? These are full usufructuary rights, all the rights that people previously had except the right to exclude others. Actually, there were other restrictions concerning keeping a mile away from homesteads and cattleyards, but the gist was (not any more) that people had those usufructuary rights.

So in the 90s, people negotiated from a position of NOTHING, when they actually had a strong base to work from, and so ended up with less than they already had. God save us from advisers and lawyers.

Joe

I just googled "ethnic tension” and this is what I got from the most popular hits prompt:

ethnic tensions in Afghanistan
ethnic tensions in Australia
ethnic tensions in Somalia
ethnic tensions in Nigeria
ethnic tensions in Iran
ethnic tensions in Chechnya
ethnic tensions in China
ethnic tensions in Indonesia
ethnic tensions in Kenya
ethnic tensions in Turkey
ethnic tensions in India

What struck me about this prompt is that all the nations listed had huge numbers of casualties, hundreds or thousands brutalized or murdered, except one....guess which one. Why is "ethnic tensions in Australia" on the top hits list of google? Who is politicizing a non event as shown by the interest factor in web hits.

Australia is not racist, Australia has imported a load of politically savvy ethnic groups that will not assimilate, the migrants from the 40's,50's, and 60's seemed to survive and prosper in this hot bed of racial hatred we call Australia.

Australian politicians have signed away our right to decide who we let become citizens. Illegal Economic refugees who jet into Indonesia to catch the ferry to Australia win eight out of ten times they take us to court to overturn an extradition order, it's a travesty.

Finally to the bleeding heart humanitarians on OLO. You are being manipulated by a Fabianesque socialist society that is itself being manipulated by the "money". I can understand how globabisation is in the "moneys" interest, but why they want a global melting pot that diffuses societies I can only see as a control factor for the later this century. The only problem that they will have is the one we are now experiencing in first western countries. That is that the Muslims do not assimilate and their cultural heritage is practiced regardless of where they are. They have beaten the west into submission with political correctness, but the Muslims do not buy that bull dust.

A last word to the ethnic whingers and idiots like Pauline Hanson, if you don't like it here, go...goodbye.

"Idiots like Pauline Hanson"?

Ummm, she did have AN AWFUL lot of people vote for her, which suggests she was not a one off.

What happened to her, well... That is the work of the various parties and demonstrates the nastiness of party politics in this Country.

But as to whether She, I or anyone else has to assimilate to a multicultural society, NO. Not going to happen, now, next week, the next year or the next life.

I like my part of society just the way it is, sure, there are some problems, but they are our problems and will be dealt with our way.

Anyone trying to "force" ethnic Australians (oxymoron if ever I saw one, you're Australian or Ethnic, one or the other), into assimilating would be hounded to the ends of the earth by the press and HREOC.

So why do people assume it is alright to "force" Pauline, Me or anyone else who has no interest in "assimilating" into a multicultural society into doing so?

Trust me, if I can't do it, you can't and you can expect a hell of a fight if you try. I come from a place where blacks and whites can and do live in a state pretty close to harmony (well with everyone but the pigs). Flinders Mall now, going on how it was a year ago, is nothing on what it was in the early-mid 90's, when groups of AJ's used to get bashed in there every weekend. The nightclub strip is pitiful now too, what is with the half dozen divy vans across from the Mad Cow & 50 odd pigs on Friday/Saturday nights?

It's getting so a man can't even have a decent brawl any more, which is a shame. Actually CJ, I'd have to suggest that parts of Townsville are more violent than anything I've yet to encounter in the major cities, over a lot less too.

Nobody's forcing you, Custard, and that is what being multicultural means - in the sociological sense of 'culture'. Freedom of expression in Australia ensures that nobody has to change their values, or beliefs, or outlooks, not you or me or any Muslim or Buddhist or fundamentalist Christian or communist or Hansonite, or any combination of the foregoing - it's all legal.

It's a liberal, multicultural society: you have all the freedoms as long as they don't intrude on anybody else's, and vice versa. You don't have to like any particular group, and they don't have to like you.

Yeah, I miss those days of biff too :(

But that is just the problem mate, I keep seeing on here how every other ethnic/cultural group but the poor old Anglo-Celt and the black fella have to change so as to assimilate into "our" new multicultural society.

If the multiculturalists had the balls to come out to where we live, live with what we live with, see what we see and see if they can do what we do, then there'd be a chance.

Quite frankly, this is the second article in 2 weeks saying that "we've" got to change, from someone who couldn't tell anyone here which Australian town/city holds the record for the hottest day & what it was...

I know, I've lived there and all about the place. My family lived there, it also did so 100 years ago and it really hasn't changed much since.

So I ask again, why should anyone else have the "right" to tell me to "Change" when I don't have the "right" to tell them to "Fit in"?

I must be dumb or something, I'm certainly not understanding this big city multicultural stuff, does that mean I have to apply to be an Aussie now? How do I know what is and is not Australian, I mean, I thought I knew, but obviously, watching the news, I'm well out of the loop. I wonder what my 2 great-grandfathers would have thought...

One was not allowed to join the Light Horse (His step-father was the AWU Secretary @ Winton during the strikes), so he joined the Infantry and the other joined the 1LHR in Adelaide at the end of a cattle drive...

I suspect they'd have no wish to take part either, so yeah, thanks for the suggestion, but you just keep it to yourselves ok?

If that makes me a racist redneck, then that makes me a racist redneck (that's still Australian right?). I strongly suspect both would have taken a dim view of being lectured by any breed of Turk, or is that just me?

Custard, it's a nonsense to talk about "assimilating" into multiculturalism. How can you assimilate into diversity?

OK. So you're a proud racist redneck. Bully for you - you have a right to your bigotry, and to express it.

Just don't expect the more tolerant and reasonable majority to agree with you :)

Custard, you're completely free to be whatever you like - if you want to call it 'redneck', that's your right too. You don't have to change - why are you trying to manufacture a problem that doesn't exist ?

My grandfather was also in the 1st Light Horse, at Gallipoli, then in the Camel Corps, then in the 1st Remounts in Palestine. He was a Wobbly, an anarchist, and my parents were communists. I like to think I'm still a Marxist, whatever it might mean - and that's all quite legal. I don't have any fear that any neo-liberal or conservative government will outlaw me or force me to change, they know I'm harmless. That tolerance is just one of the crosses that a Marxist has to bear in a liberal society, the b@stards.

Joe

Ms. Aslan is wrong with most of her statements. Firstly Australia is not a nation of immigrants. It's a nation of Aborigines, British colonists and their descendants. The white Australia policy was not racist, it was a sensible immigration policy encouraging migrants that could easily assimilate into the Australian way of life, which is sensible. Cultural racism? Racism is the idea that one race is superior to another, which is a scientific fact. You cannot dispel a negative stereotype, that's illogical. A stereotype is perception of observed phenomena. Multiculturalism is a failed ideology, it has failed everywhere it has been tried because it ignores human nature. There is 3000 years of recorded warfare to prove it. Also wondering why it is that White, Judo-Christian Europeans are always asked to be tolerant when everyone else is intolerant. Couldn't our 3rd world Islamic migrants, migrate to countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia; Places where they would fit right in? Lastly multiculturalism is in breach of UN Human rights charter, which is a cherished document of the leftists.

Okay, I'm going to take the bait. I know I shouldn't, but then again I do a lot of things I shouldn't do.

Upon what evidence is the scientific fact that one race is superior to another based? I know that many Asian societies boast greater longevity than Western societies, but I was of the understanding that their longevity was based largely on diet. Similarly, many Asian societies produce "smarter" people - but this is because of their schooling habits. The indigenous kids I have taught, who come from Palm and the Torres Strait, are generally much better than I am at catching fish. They can also make a lively meal out of possums and other creatures I would never have considered eating. But again, I thought this would have been more to do with upbringing. Raise an Asian kid or a Torres Strait Islander in the sleepy outer suburbs of Townsville, with affluent Anglo-Saxon/Celtic parents like mine, and I reckon they'd turn out a bit like me.

Some Eastern African societies are made up of people who are typically taller than Westerners - is this the superiority to which you refer? It's certainly a genetic factor, so it could be the scientifically proven racial superiority we're looking at. Funny, though. I'm pretty short and have never felt inferior.

I don't agree with much of what Ms. Aslan said, either, but at least she offered some proof rather than spurious blanket statements to back her arguments up. I invite you, Bigos, to do the same. But I suspect you won't bother.

Otokonoko; No need for biting. An exchange of ideas will do.

"... so it could be the scientifically proven racial superiority we're looking at. Funny, though. I'm pretty short and have never felt inferior."

This is evident in itself. I could link you 100s of DNA studies, but it can be summed up in a single logical statement. A white couple cannot have an Asian/African child through natural conception. Also one mans superiority is another mans inferiority (in regards to your last statement). Since racism is an idea, its meaning is entirely arbitrary, so it could mean anything, anyone wants it mean. I was referring to "cultural racism" Ms. Aslan was referring to not racism per se as defined by PC thinking.

"... she offered some proof rather than spurious blanket statements to back her arguments up."

What is the proof that Ms. Aslan offered? Apologies I missed it, can you point it out please. Also everything I have said is not a blanket statement, it's self evident. I don't need to provide proof, the proof is all around you. Let me know what I can clear up for you?

Does multiculturalism spawn racism ? :) ohhh.. please..bite..bite :)

One example of that racism is the very topic under consideration.

Simply raising the question begs the answer "yes...OF COURSE...they are"

At least in the mind of the racist left wing author.

CUSTARD and BIGOS and if his radar is on.. PERICLES...

You blokes will lurrrrvvvv this :)

http://www.bnp.org.uk/?q=news/national-lottery-exposed-vicious-anti-black-racists

Make sure you read the body of the text.. the 'punch' is kinda hidden :)

Multiculturalism is less likely I would think to spawn racism than segregation. You cannot fear something if you live among it, get to know it and make friends with it.

Ignorance is more likely to spawn racism because it makes stereotypical judgements purely on race without knowledge or experience.

From birth to the age of 12 I lived in a very multicultural society - a mixture of Australian/Anglo, Chinese, German, Greek, Italian, Korean, Vietnamese, Yugoslavian and a larger Indigenous population. It was the Darwin of the 60s well before the term multiculturalism had been phrased. As a young child this was normal and there were no deep ethnic tensions that I remember in school other than some issues with Indigenous Australians regarding alcoholism (the parents not the kids).

Then I lived in a very working class Anglo culture for five years. However, while there was no racism as such (given the monoculture) the school was fraught with many more tensions than the one I left. Mainly due to poverty, lack of education and class politics.

The way I see it the world is surely a better place when we learn to live with one another even if there are a few initial teething problems.

In a free society we can be what we want and think freely but multiculturalism did not spawn racism, racism was well and truly around since early times. Fear is not a new phenomenon. Hitler used this fear well, when demonising Jews. The idea of purity of race is also not a new phenomenon.

(Celivia forgive me - that Godwin fellow again)

ALGOREisRICH - Yes you're right. Racism can only be perpetrated by white people. Basically the modern PC meaning of racism is anything that puts an ethnic minority at the same level as the host population, doesn't let them get ahead.

pelican - "Multiculturalism is less likely I would think to spawn racism than segregation."

Put you thinking cap back on mate. Multiculturalism is culture segregation.

"Ignorance is more likely to spawn racism because it makes stereotypical judgments purely on race without knowledge or experience."

A stereotype can only be created by experience.

"In a free society we can be what we want and think freely but multiculturalism did not spawn racism, racism was well and truly around since early times."

Racism is a natural thinking process. We're comfortable around our own kind, that's why after 40000 years of homo-sapience we have different races and not a single race of people. Since races of people exist, it means racism has also always existed. This fact is undeniable.

Bigos: << I could link you 100s of DNA studies >>

<< Since races of people exist, it means racism has also always existed. This fact is undeniable. >>

I think you're confusing 'race' with 'ethnicity'. Don't worry, it's a common mistake among the ignorant and/or racist.

<< American Anthropological Association
Statement on "Race"
(May 17, 1998)

In the United States both scholars and the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species. >>

[cont]

[cont]

<< Physical variations in any given trait tend to occur gradually rather than abruptly over geographic areas. And because physical traits are inherited independently of one another, knowing the range of one trait does not predict the presence of others. For example, skin color varies largely from light in the temperate areas in the north to dark in the tropical areas in the south; its intensity is not related to nose shape or hair texture. Dark skin may be associated with frizzy or kinky hair or curly or wavy or straight hair, all of which are found among different indigenous peoples in tropical regions. These facts render any attempt to establish lines of division among biological populations both arbitrary and subjective.

Historical research has shown that the idea of "race" has always carried more meanings than mere physical differences; indeed, physical variations in the human species have no meaning except the social ones that humans put on them. Today scholars in many fields argue that "race" as it is understood in the United States of America was a social mechanism invented during the 18th century to refer to those populations brought together in colonial America: the English and other European settlers, the conquered Indian peoples, and those peoples of Africa brought in to provide slave labor. >>

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

This statement is as true for Australia as it is for the USA. Let me know what else I can clear up for you.

CJ Morgan;

"I think you're confusing 'race' with 'ethnicity'. Don't worry, it's a common mistake among the ignorant and/or racist."

How, where did I confuse the two? Just because you say/think, that someone is ignorant/racist, it doesn't make them so.

Everything you quoted agrees with everything I have said?

"Let me know what else I can clear up for you."
Everything. I'm not sure what you are on about, after all keep in mind I'm ignorant. You might want to spell it out for me.

'afternoon all...

This thread has certainly precipitated some compelling exchanges !

Myself, on the extreme 'Right Wing' - a bigoted, racist, violent and corrupt retired copper. And, oh yeah a Veteran. And no, I've never actually massacred any women or children - but I did callously 'jolt' from his sleep, and out of a tree, a minuscule member of the primate family, with a fearsome SLR !

While ever this world continues to prevail, bigotry in ALL its guises, shall exist. All we humans possess our own prejudices, bias, and intolerances. Governments mandating that we shall all accept, tolerate, and 'embrace' others, though well intended, is simply quite vacuous ?

When I was in the job, I saw some shockingly brutal and merciless crimes, directly attributable to RACE issues. Asian on black, black on asian, asian on islanders, white on whoever.. whatever constituant you wish to nominate ?

I reckon people are like water, we find our own level; pool, and exist, until the rains bring more, only to either evaporate, or again, seek our own level; and........

Gotta go !

Before so doing I must say, I always
enjoy commentary from C. J. Morgan !

Cheers...Sung Wu

Right on, CJ. The fiction of 'race' was demolished long ago.

Bigos,

Don't confuse difference with segregation: some Australians are religious, some are atheist, but can you talk about segregation of the two, just because one can differentiate between them ? On a more trivial level, some barrack for AFL teams, some for NRL teams, some for Union, some for Soccer - can you talk about segregation of supporters ? Some vote Labour, some Liberal, some Greens - is that segregation ?

And how on earth can you eliminate people's ancestry ? Australians are descended from people from a multitude of countries - how can they drop their ancestry and become what you would like them to be, and thus avoid 'segregation', i.e. difference.

Or are you defining 'segregation' to mean 'people behaving differently' ? Bit of a long bow ....

Racist societies have almost invariably been segregationist - those who could not be assimilated were to be segregated (Aboriginal people) or kept out altogether (non-'whites'). Of course, the next step in the most racist societies was extermination.

Thankfully, Australian society is neither assimilationist nor segregationist - it is equal-opportunity integrationist, if you like, and that's fine with me.

Joe

Bigos: << Everything you quoted agrees with everything I have said? >>

Er, no. Since you're new here, I'll assume that you're genuine and spell it out for you. You said:

<< We're comfortable around our own kind, that's why after 40000 years of homo-sapience we have different races and not a single race of people >>

I've provided evidence of why that is a scientifically false statement. What you seem to be talking about is ethnocentrism, i.e. the universal human characteristic of feeling more in common with others of similar descent, language and culture - in other words shared ethnicity. Racism and ethnocentrism aren't the same thing.

"Race" persists as an outmoded culturally defined social category, but it has no biological basis with respect to humans. However, many people still treat others as if the outmoded "racial" categories demarcate significant essential differences between human groups, usually with the purpose and effect of inferiorising those groups of which they are not a member. That's called "racism".

One of Aslan's salient points in the article is that the way that some bigots regard and treat Muslims is structurally similar to the way that racists treat others whom they classify as belonging to different "races" than their own, which is why she calls it "cultural racism".

I hope this helps.

P.S. Thanks to Joe and o sung wu, whose contributions I always enjoy too :)

Pelly

you said:

"You cannot fear something if you live among it, get to know it and make friends with it."

Glad to see you have hopped onto the assimilation love boat :)
because what you desribed there was certainly not 'multiculturalism'

cheers

Oh.. CJ.. while you are clearing things up for people.. please contact the Attourney General and advise him that the terminology '

"Racial" Discrimination Act.. is incorrect and should be 'Ethnicity" discrimination act.

Better tell him also that only 'racists' use such terms.

I'm sure he will be most grateful for your wise insights and pedantism :) After all.. not all of us can be as brilliant wise and modest as you.

You can add to your list of people to clear up

"Racial" and Religious Tolerance Act..and bring them up to speed on how they should change all the words from RACE to 'ethnicity'

For the RDA

(1) It is unlawful for a person to do any act involving a distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on RACE, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin.

Welllll. what a pack of dumbo's we have in parliament... they clearly need a dose of CJ MORGAN wielding a verbal rubber hose of 'correct terminology'to put them right.

What a privilege we have here.. to have a genuine 'oracle of truth' in CJ.

Al Gore, are you into cricket ? Your attack on CJ comes from 'silly point': a racist is someone who tries to load the term 'race' with more than is warranted - so 'racial discrimination' is discriminatory treatment against someone on the spurious grounds of their 'race'. Clear enough ?

Your definition of assimilation is also way-off: just because someone gets on with people from other ethnic backgrounds, has nothing really to do with assimilation. My wife Maria was Aboriginal, but in our 42 years together, I didn't become Aboriginal and she didn't become Anglo-Celtic: in fact, I don't know how one could change like that.

My left-field definition of assimilation is something else: a person supports assimilation if he refuses to associate with anyone unless they become/act/behave/think as he/she does - otherwise, he/she will ignore or exclude or despise or (if he/she has the power) mistreat those 'others'. So an assimilationist and an exclusionist (or segregationist) are, to me, very much the same animal, we're just looking at different sides of the same coin.

I welcome your views, as always :)

Joe

@CJ Morgan, I am continually being told that "I" have to change, so are you, I have no intention of changing, thus the statement. It is a "ridiculous statement", that is correct, it was made to demonstrate the stupidity of requiring myself or anyone else to "conform" to the current "multicultural agenda", go back, read the article...

It is nothing more nor less than a blatant series of statements that Australians NEED to be more supportive of multiculturalism, NEED to be more supportive of Aboriginal rights (I'd suspect I'm more supportive of these than the Author, just in the real world, not academia where there is no asbestos dust, dogsh*&t, obscene smells and fights).

I am pointing out, that neither I nor anyone else NEED do anything. We are under NO COMPULSION to assist anyone or alter our ways in any way shape or form (contrary to the Author's position). As I am sure you are aware that I have a tendency to make points through irony, satire or even sarcasm (never, who me?) you know well what I am saying.

@Loudmouth, check out the online records - all the personnel files for the LHR are online via the AWM site, in PDF format.

Good post, Loudmouth.
In all my years, I have never met a (country) redneck who didn't know at least one "good blackfella".
How do you define a good blackfella? They act just like whitefellas...

CJ Morgan
From your own quote "analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes." 6% different genes which err make us different?

Loudmouth
"Right on, CJ. The fiction of 'race' was demolished long ago." Can you tell me exactly when we have reached this pinnacle of human evolution?

"Don't confuse ...." And apples are separated from oranges in the supermarkets. Read Ms. Aslan's article.

CJ Morgan
Ms. Aslan claims that .. "Multiculturalism is still the best social and political system.."

Then you pull out this chestnut ...

"What you seem to be talking about is ethnocentrism, i.e. the universal human characteristic of feeling more in common with others of similar descent, language and culture - in other words shared ethnicity."

"Racism and ethnocentrism aren't the same thing."

I never said anything of the sort. My argument is that PC meaning of Racism is arbitrary, it can mean anything these days.

"..but it has no biological basis with respect to humans"
You first quote from the American Anthropological Association kind of contradicts this statement.

"... some bigots regard and treat Muslims is structurally similar to the way that racists treat others whom they classify as belonging to different "races" than their own"
Can you tell me what you mean by this statement? What would think is racist or cultural-racist behavior?

Bigos,

'Pinnacle' ? 'Abyss', more likely. And surely the Second World War put a dent in thinking about (and acting on) the myths of race. If you're in a hole, Bigos, I advise you to stop digging and climb out.

Quite so, Joe. I think Bigos either has a comprehension problem or is being obtuse. Either way, I'm not inclined to provide more oxygen to what seems to be yet another half-clever rationalisation of bigotry.

Loudmouth's right, Bigos - stop digging. You're dealing with people who know what they're talking about here.

Loudmouth
"And surely the Second World War put a dent in thinking about the myths of race."

Godwin? WW2 was started with annexation of Bohemia and a naval attack on Poland. The left wing fascists didn't like Jews (ethnicity?), but neither did they like German gypsies and homosexuals, Poles and Russians. Not sure what this has to do with cultural-racism and multiculturalism in Australia, but I suppose when you run out of arguments anything goes.

CJ Morgan
"...half-clever rationalisation of bigotry"
I'm not the one stuck denying obviousness. Your argument is a fools folly. I asked a simple question which I was wondering whether you could answer. Here it is again:
"What would you think is racist or cultural-racist behavior?"

My whole argument is around the fact that multiculturalism is a failed ideology and racism in modern day context is anything, anyone wants it to mean. Run out of arguments just label people bigots, racists ...

"You're dealing with people who know what they're talking about here."

Looks like it, just before Loudmouth said:

"Right on, CJ. The fiction of 'race' was demolished long ago."

Bigos,

Good trick: when an issue is raised, find something vaguely to do with it which substantially doesn't, and flog that irrelevant side of it to death. There must be a name for this in Logical Fallacies 101.

Let's try an example: say, nineteenth century British imperialism: in the nineteenth century, Dickens wrote brilliant novels, Lister and Faraday and Kelvin made ground-breaking scientific discoveries, Darwin revolutionised biological science, and universal education was introduced in all Australian states - how could these be said to be products of British imperialism ? If so, was British imperialism so bad ? Discuss.

As you suggest, 'Not sure what this has to do with cultural-racism and multiculturalism in Australia [or Dickens et al.], but I suppose when you run out of arguments anything goes.'

Joe

Loudmouth

"Good trick: when an issue is raised, find something vaguely to do with it which substantially doesn't..."

Just exactly what issue was raised, what did I find something vague to it? I merely am arguing that multiculturalism is a road to disaster. If you get two cultures that are polar opposites to each other, then one or the other has to give. As for cultural-racism, well I'm waiting for an answer as to what you guys think it actually is? If Ms. Aslan is following this discussion maybe she could enlighten us?

"..nineteenth century British imperialism: in the nineteenth century, Dickens wrote brilliant novels.."

What do these people have to do with British Imperialism? They were a product of British Plural culture. Besides what's better or worse about British imperialism then say, Roman colonial expansion 200BC-300AD, Islamic Jihad expansion 700AD-1400AD, and Mongolian expansion around the same time into Eastern Europe. I'm not sure where you are going with this?

"As you suggest, 'Not sure what this has to do with cultural-racism and multiculturalism in Australia [or Dickens et al.], but I suppose when you run out of arguments anything goes.'"

I have made my argument crystal clear, it is CJ and yourself who appear to be engaging logical fallacies, arguments from authority and supporting each others argument. However you have not made a single argument that is actually coherent, just labeled me a racist bigot and that's all.

Why don't you just tell me what you think racist or cultural-racist behavior actually is? Is it just anything you want it to be?

Quite simply Bigos, your behaviour is racist.
You made the statement:
"Racism is the idea that one race is superior to another, which is a scientific fact."
After Oto queried you on this, you replied:
"This is evident in itself. I could link you 100s of DNA studies, but it can be summed up in a single logical statement. A white couple cannot have an Asian/African child through natural conception."
I'm sorry, I must be missing something. How does not being able to have an Asian/African child prove superiority?
Also, I found your very first statement there mystifying.
"Firstly Australia is not a nation of immigrants. It's a nation of Aborigines, British colonists and their descendants."
I'm pretty sure if you check with a few Korees, you'll find most of them would consider "British colonists" to be immigrants.
In fact, illegal immigrants.
You want to know what racism is? Read your own posts.

Grim
"I'm sorry, I must be missing something. How does not being able to have an Asian/African child prove superiority?"

It doesn't. You are selectively quoting me out of context. Since races exist, racism exists as an ideological construct. One persons superiority is another persons inferiority as I have already mentioned.

"I'm pretty sure if you check with a few Korees, you'll find most of them would consider "British colonists" to be immigrants. In fact, illegal immigrants."
I did say Australia is a nation of Aboriginals (Koori) and British colonists. I'm not sure how the Aboriginal population would think of the colonists as immigrants since no nation state existed, nor did they even know they were on an island (I think). More likely invaders, but that's beside the point. Historical fact is Australia was settled by British Colonists, initially a penal colony follow by general population during the gold rush. There was no state foreign immigration programs until the 20th century.

"You want to know what racism is? Read your own posts."
You missed my point. Racism is an idea. An idea can only exist in the mind. In order to realise the idea one must be aware of it. Ergo that would make you racist since you seem to accept the idea? Or is racism what you say it is and that's it?

Bigos, you can't argue with these people, knock one of their 'Isms' on the head and they bring out another one, when they get sick of you they'll call you a "Holocaust Denier" as if that is some sort of "Bigot Kryptonite".
The writers published on this site write what they do because it's their job to manufacture information, they are the "Workers", their words and their followers are the manufactured goods of the Neo Communist cult of PC.
Everyone from Dandenong to Dagestan knows what you and I know, Race is REAL and it matters.
Every day we find out something new and amazing about Race, Egypt for example is now appearing as a Multiracial society NOT an African one. With White Europeans like Tutankhamun, Semites like The Shepherd Kings and even Black Africans such as Shabaka I rising to power.
People such as You and I believe in discovery,endeavour, beauty, faith, pride and love.
The Lefties only understand hatred,perversion, power relationships ugliness, shame and self loathing, all the things they'll accuse you of are actually reflections of themselves.

Jay Of Melbourne

Your description of left wing ideologues is pretty accurate. They themselves smear me as a racist bigot even though I clearly state my position. I like to think of myself as a centrist, I use fact, reason and logic to try and form an argument. This doesn't mean that I am right, however I would like to be shown that I am wrong and perhaps that will change my thinking process. I'm not even sure how I am supposed to respond to statements such as this:
Loudmouth - "The fiction of 'race' was demolished long ago."
This comment defies common sense, something everyone should be able to recognise is denied. This can only be due to some kind of ideology. I don't quite understand Ms. Aslans article as well, multicultural society gives us state sanctioned racism, ala:

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/indigenous/index.htm

And cultural tension in terms of the Sydney race riots. As far I can see if we keep practicing this multicultural delusion things are only going to get worse as society breaks down into a bunch of warring ethnic tribes competing for ever dwindling resources and hegemony.

How would you define racism bigos?

Jay what has racism got to do with left or right political ideology? Malcolm Fraser is involved with welfare issues around asylum seekers and has spoken to these issues for some time. Hardly a leftie - whatever you think that means.

Bigos, I was going to let it rest but a few other people have brought it up. I asked you to explain your statement that "Racism is the idea that one race is superior to another, which is a scientific fact". I probably asked a tad aggressively, and I apologise for that.

Perhaps I misinterpreted you - I understood you to be suggesting that the superiority of one race to another is a scientific fact, but your subsequent posts suggest otherwise: that one man's superiority is another man's inferiority. Thus superiority could not be scientifically proven, as the term "superiority" has been rendered entirely subjective. What did you actually mean when you said this? I'm asking out of interest, by the way - not to set a trap or provoke an argument. I'd like to understand exactly what it is that you are arguing.

pelican
"How would you define racism bigos?"
Read my comments. My position is clear. The today's PC definition is so ambiguous it means anything. That's why no one can define what it actually is, or produce a scenario of racist behavior. If an ethnic person feels marginalised in the white-anglo world it's oppression and racism, oppress and anglo and it's social justice.

Otokonoko
"I probably asked a tad aggressively, and I apologise for that."
Don't apologise for anything. I'm down with the flu and I'm trying to cure it quickly by taking fists full of Codral and drinking cough syroup by the litre. Let me explain my self. All people are
different, whether it be by race, culture, ethnicity. I recognise and acknowledge these differences. What is superiority is also arbitrary, what I see as superiority might be inferiority to another person. Nonetheless the difference is there. I can make a sweeping generalisation by saying Africans are excellent sprinters, and Asians make excellent Computer Scientists. Tell me which you believe is superior.

Bigos: << Since races exist, racism exists as an ideological construct. >>

I've refuted your claim that "races exist" in any scientific sense.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173629

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

Your subsequent posts have ignored that refutation, which is why I think you're being obtuse. Indeed, your obtuseness seems familiar.

Mind you, I agree with you that "racism exists as an ideological construct". However, in these PC days it's more often expressed in cultural terms than in strictly "racial" terms, because the notion of race when applied to humans no longer has any scientific or moral authority.

Islamophobia works in exactly the same way as racism. People are ascribed innate essential negative qualities on the basis of religious rather than 'racial' traits, but the effect is much the same.

But you know all that, don't you?

How nice to see Jay back too.

“My position is clear.”
Yes it is, but probably not in the way you mean. As for your claim that “ no one can define what it actually is”, that's nonsense also, and you supply your own evidence.
Racism is simply 'making sweeping generalisations', on the basis of race. A redneck is someone who not only makes sweeping generalisations, but infers some innate superiority or inferiority on the basis of sweeping generalisations.
Your assumptions are so ingrown, they apparently have become invisible to you. How can we tell you “which we believe is superior', when we don't recognise any innate superiority?
People are all different, as individuals.
And 'Jay of Melbourne's hypocrisy can only be described as unbelievable. Do you find people of other 'races' beautiful, Jay? Do you love them?
And please, show me which remarks of mine in this thread identify me as being 'left'.
Or, are you under the impression that socialism is “ the unwillingness to pre judge people, on the basis of their physical appearance, or place of birth”.

CJ Morgan
"I've refuted your claim that "races exist" in any scientific sense. "

No you haven't, you quote a bunch of American Anthropologists engaged in group think. This isn't the position of the scientific community. The most important part you left out; Here it is, what's imporatnt is in brackets since I cannot bold.

"(The following statement was adopted) by the Executive Board of the American Anthropological Association, acting on a draft prepared by a (committee of representative) American anthropologists. (It does not reflect a consensus of all members of the AAA, as individuals vary in their approaches to the study of "race.") (We believe that it represents generally the contemporary thinking and scholarly positions of a majority of anthropologists.)

"However, in these PC days it's more often expressed in cultural terms than in strictly "racial" terms, because the notion of race when applied to humans no longer has any scientific or moral authority. "

Yeah, my argument is it's anything you want it to be. Maybe you can cite an example?

"Islamophobia works in exactly the same way as racism."

Yes it does, it's just used to smear people with real grievances rather then identify a certain mode of behavior, which is what a phobia is. Phobia is essentially an unfounded or an irrational fear. Generally people being smeared with this have genuine fears. Note generally.

Grim
"..you supply your own evidence."

I supply the evidence that it can mean anything, there is no defined meaning to the term anymore, anyone can call anyone a racist these days for any reason.

"A redneck is someone who not only makes sweeping generalisations, but infers some innate superiority or inferiority on the basis of sweeping generalisations."

I could say that, a redneck is anyone Grim says is a redneck.

"Your assumptions are so ingrown, they apparently have become invisible to you."

Actually I haven't assumed anything, I merely point out fact.

"People are all different, as individuals. "

I don't deny this at all.

Ok. It's painfully obvious that racism/multiculturalism are the most argued subjects of late on OLO. Why, instead of playing blame tennis, don't we simply put forward ideas of how to make something that doesn't work, work. I for one am getting weary of what has been done wrong. Let's hear of what is being done right or could be done right. I want to live my live in a much friendlier society than the present one & I am doing my part to work towards a better system.
Let's hear from those who believe it isn't too late to get back on track & how ? Today is day 1, let's hear it !

Individual,

Thank god, a constructive comment. Yes, why don't we try reaching out to each other ? Not necessarily all huggy-huggy, but catching people's eyes and saying g'day with a smile is not a bad start - most people would be surprised how well it works.

The British philosopher Paul Gilroy has written a lot about 'multicultural democracy': many above might see this as an oxymoron, but surely - in almost every society in the world now - that must be the aim ?

Sometimes I feel a bit sorry for my Anglo-Celtic brothers and sisters: once, they were totally dominant, and never had to think about identity, culture, ethnicity, etc. - they were IT: they were Australians, Australia was THEM. Then along come (or emerge from the segregated shadows) people who were not Anglo-Celtic: Aboriginal people, Balts, Mediterraneans, Arabs, Indo-Chinese, Turks, Maori, and then a flood of people from most of the countries of the world - and what do these people do ? They assert themselves, they group together voluntarily, they exercise their right to association, then their rights to free expression and to stick up for themselves. Worse still, they inter-marry with other Australians ! That was not supposed to happen ! And on top of that, they legitimately claim to be Australian !

So where does that leave many Anglos when 'their' identity now has to be shared with people who also have strong alternative identities ? In Britain, they have to scramble to dig out the flag of St George and in the US, they have to join the Republicans and demand that the country return to the 1950s, or join one of the rag-bag of supremacist groups (a bit the same thing, really). Here they wrap themselves in ther flag as if they alone have sweated and died for it.

[TBC]

Joe

[continued]

But it does not have to be that way. We can embrace the realities of a multi-sided Australia, multi-coloured, multi-cultural, multi-belief, multi-cuisine, multi-talent, and recognise that in a much more fluid world, just as there are half a million or so Australians living elsewhere around the world, Australia can live up to its values as a welcoming country where, in a formal sense, everybody has equal rights to associate and express themselves, and to recognise each other's right to live as we like, where we like, and with whom we like.

So just reach out - say hello, give each other a smile and a nod - you'd be amazed.

Joe

way to go loudmouth, cheers !

Yes, great stuff Joe. I couldn't agree more, and it's nice to be agreeing with individual for a change :)

“I could say that, a redneck is anyone Grim says is a redneck”.
Er, actually no Bigos; you appear to be confused again.
You Bigos. Me Grim.
Bigos say: “My position is clear. The today's PC definition is so ambiguous it means anything.”
This mean no definition, can call anyone redneck (or, not call anyone redneck).
Grim say: “A redneck is someone who not only makes sweeping generalisations, but infers some innate superiority or inferiority on the basis of sweeping generalisations.”
This mean 'redneck' only called when fall within defined parameters. (sorry, I don't know how to say that more simply).
Now I'm going to muddy the waters a little more. I hope Bigos doesn't get too confused.
Going back to one of my earlier points (how does a redneck define a 'good' blackfella? They act just like whitefellas), and I think concurring with one of CJ's points, I don't believe your average redneck is a 'racist'. I think they are more commonly 'culturalists'.
Aussie rednecks don't really care about people's race, or ethnic characteristics; they just want everyone to act like whitefellas.
If you visit a Chinese restaurant in Wauchope NSW, (cattle country) and ask for a dim sim, you will get a good Aussie beef burger, wrapped in won ton skin.
I can't think why I thought that was topical...

Grim

I have no idea what some of your ramble was on about. What I understand is below.

"This mean no definition, can call anyone redneck (or, not call anyone redneck)." That's my point, it's only used to smear people who do not share an ism worldview.

"This mean 'redneck' only called when fall within defined parameters. (sorry, I don't know how to say that more simply)." What are these parameters, my point being in the modern PC word these parameters are what anyone wants them to be. Therefore if someone doesn't agree with another persons opinion or has a different view they are labeled as racist, xenophobe, islamophobe or put into the redneck category, in order to stifle their view.

"..how does a redneck define a 'good' black fella? They act just like white fellas" Is this your idea of what Ms. Aslan refers to a as a redneck, is this racism, cultural-racism? Before I asked for an example, is this it?

"Aussie rednecks don't really care about people's race, or ethnic characteristics; they just want everyone to act like whitefellas." You mean lead productive lives and adhere to the rule of law or something else? Please explain.

"If you visit a Chinese restaurant in Wauchope NSW, (cattle country) and ask for a dim sim, you will get a good Aussie beef burger, wrapped in won ton skin. I can't think why I thought that was topical..." Neither can I; Let me know if the burger is good, I might add Wauchope to my drive through holiday destinations.