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The Forum > Article Comments > Are Aussies really rednecks? > Comments

Are Aussies really rednecks? : Comments

By Alice Aslan, published 10/6/2010

Multiculturalism is still the best social and political system for societies like Australia which are based on migration.

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How would you define racism bigos?

Jay what has racism got to do with left or right political ideology? Malcolm Fraser is involved with welfare issues around asylum seekers and has spoken to these issues for some time. Hardly a leftie - whatever you think that means.
Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 9:08:52 PM
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Bigos, I was going to let it rest but a few other people have brought it up. I asked you to explain your statement that "Racism is the idea that one race is superior to another, which is a scientific fact". I probably asked a tad aggressively, and I apologise for that.

Perhaps I misinterpreted you - I understood you to be suggesting that the superiority of one race to another is a scientific fact, but your subsequent posts suggest otherwise: that one man's superiority is another man's inferiority. Thus superiority could not be scientifically proven, as the term "superiority" has been rendered entirely subjective. What did you actually mean when you said this? I'm asking out of interest, by the way - not to set a trap or provoke an argument. I'd like to understand exactly what it is that you are arguing.
Posted by Otokonoko, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 9:40:06 PM
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pelican
"How would you define racism bigos?"
Read my comments. My position is clear. The today's PC definition is so ambiguous it means anything. That's why no one can define what it actually is, or produce a scenario of racist behavior. If an ethnic person feels marginalised in the white-anglo world it's oppression and racism, oppress and anglo and it's social justice.

Otokonoko
"I probably asked a tad aggressively, and I apologise for that."
Don't apologise for anything. I'm down with the flu and I'm trying to cure it quickly by taking fists full of Codral and drinking cough syroup by the litre. Let me explain my self. All people are
different, whether it be by race, culture, ethnicity. I recognise and acknowledge these differences. What is superiority is also arbitrary, what I see as superiority might be inferiority to another person. Nonetheless the difference is there. I can make a sweeping generalisation by saying Africans are excellent sprinters, and Asians make excellent Computer Scientists. Tell me which you believe is superior.
Posted by Bigos, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 10:06:39 PM
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Bigos: << Since races exist, racism exists as an ideological construct. >>

I've refuted your claim that "races exist" in any scientific sense.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10541#173629

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

Your subsequent posts have ignored that refutation, which is why I think you're being obtuse. Indeed, your obtuseness seems familiar.

Mind you, I agree with you that "racism exists as an ideological construct". However, in these PC days it's more often expressed in cultural terms than in strictly "racial" terms, because the notion of race when applied to humans no longer has any scientific or moral authority.

Islamophobia works in exactly the same way as racism. People are ascribed innate essential negative qualities on the basis of religious rather than 'racial' traits, but the effect is much the same.

But you know all that, don't you?

How nice to see Jay back too.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 11:03:49 PM
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“My position is clear.”
Yes it is, but probably not in the way you mean. As for your claim that “ no one can define what it actually is”, that's nonsense also, and you supply your own evidence.
Racism is simply 'making sweeping generalisations', on the basis of race. A redneck is someone who not only makes sweeping generalisations, but infers some innate superiority or inferiority on the basis of sweeping generalisations.
Your assumptions are so ingrown, they apparently have become invisible to you. How can we tell you “which we believe is superior', when we don't recognise any innate superiority?
People are all different, as individuals.
And 'Jay of Melbourne's hypocrisy can only be described as unbelievable. Do you find people of other 'races' beautiful, Jay? Do you love them?
And please, show me which remarks of mine in this thread identify me as being 'left'.
Or, are you under the impression that socialism is “ the unwillingness to pre judge people, on the basis of their physical appearance, or place of birth”.
Posted by Grim, Thursday, 17 June 2010 7:15:14 AM
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CJ Morgan
"I've refuted your claim that "races exist" in any scientific sense. "

No you haven't, you quote a bunch of American Anthropologists engaged in group think. This isn't the position of the scientific community. The most important part you left out; Here it is, what's imporatnt is in brackets since I cannot bold.

"(The following statement was adopted) by the Executive Board of the American Anthropological Association, acting on a draft prepared by a (committee of representative) American anthropologists. (It does not reflect a consensus of all members of the AAA, as individuals vary in their approaches to the study of "race.") (We believe that it represents generally the contemporary thinking and scholarly positions of a majority of anthropologists.)

"However, in these PC days it's more often expressed in cultural terms than in strictly "racial" terms, because the notion of race when applied to humans no longer has any scientific or moral authority. "

Yeah, my argument is it's anything you want it to be. Maybe you can cite an example?

"Islamophobia works in exactly the same way as racism."

Yes it does, it's just used to smear people with real grievances rather then identify a certain mode of behavior, which is what a phobia is. Phobia is essentially an unfounded or an irrational fear. Generally people being smeared with this have genuine fears. Note generally.

Grim
"..you supply your own evidence."

I supply the evidence that it can mean anything, there is no defined meaning to the term anymore, anyone can call anyone a racist these days for any reason.

"A redneck is someone who not only makes sweeping generalisations, but infers some innate superiority or inferiority on the basis of sweeping generalisations."

I could say that, a redneck is anyone Grim says is a redneck.

"Your assumptions are so ingrown, they apparently have become invisible to you."

Actually I haven't assumed anything, I merely point out fact.

"People are all different, as individuals. "

I don't deny this at all.
Posted by Bigos, Thursday, 17 June 2010 7:14:49 PM
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