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The Forum > General Discussion > Conflict between freedom of religion and individual rights

Conflict between freedom of religion and individual rights

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David,
Have a life saving operation in one of their excellent facilities.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 16 October 2022 6:51:59 PM
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Dear David F.,

«I don't see how one can give religion a good reputation.»

Okay, Okay, but you do not need to shout out telling everyone that you are blind :-)

...

Actually you are not blind, you only have a blind spot, a kind of astigmatism that causes you to see "religion" where there is none (e.g. in persecuting homosexuals and witches, scaring children, killing opponents, arresting scientists, etc.) and on the other hand notice only decency, charity, selflessness, righteous behaviour, inner peace, poise and contentment where there is more to it, where religion is in the background and bring these forth.

...

But yes, religion does have a poor reputation among the lazy, among those who like to gain all comforts, wealth and pleasures without making an effort, who like to make shortcuts without caring for the consequences on others, who only want to eat, drink and be merry, then stay the whole Sunday in bed.

...Honour thy father and thy mother
...Thou shalt not kill
...Thou shalt not commit adultery
...Thou shalt not steal
...Thou shalt not bear false witness
...Thou shalt not covet

I can understand why these are unpopular...
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 16 October 2022 9:27:36 PM
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Indy,
>If Homosexuality were natural why hasn't the human body evolved accordingly ?
Firstly, what makes you think it hasn't?
Secondly, what would you regard as evolving accordingly?
Thirdly, what relevance is it whether it's natural or not?
Posted by Aidan, Sunday, 16 October 2022 9:42:33 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

You cited the meaningful commandments advising behaving well in the ten commandments. You left out:

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall make no idols.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Keep the Sabbath day holy.

Commandments about God are nonsense. I see no harm in making an idol. Sabbath observance laws are discriminatory since different religions observe different sabbaths. You did what bible bashers do - pick out the good parts and ignore the bad parts. There are many bad parts. In Joshua God orders the Israelites to commit genocide. In that book God is Hitler.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 16 October 2022 9:50:33 PM
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Are homosexuals being discriminated against? I believe that homosexuality is wrong because it is unnatural and totally at odds with anatomy. Nothing to do with religion. However, I have never discriminated against homosexuals themselves, and never would. The discrimination here is against Christianity and Christians expressing their beliefs, and against anyone who has exercised his or her freedom to think differently from sanctimonious virtue-signallers who probably don't even know a homosexual person or persons.

If a homosexual person is banned or rejected from anything purely for his or her sexuality, that's discrimination. At that moment all the discrimination is against people exercising their rights to freedom of speech and thought. In the Essendon case, a man was victimised, not for anything he said, but what someone in his church said about Christian teachings which, no matter what anyone else thinks, he was perfectly entitled to say, and it is his job as a pastor to say it. You don’t like it? Don't get involved. Mind your own business and stick to your own opinions.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 16 October 2022 10:34:29 PM
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Dear David F.,

I excluded the first 4 commandments simply because they were not relevant to my example of what makes religion unpopular among lazy people, etc.

I can however see how the first 4 commandments can be unpopular among modern scientific people like yourself.

«Commandments about God are nonsense.»

They can be used as techniques to train and purify the mind (but please bear in mind that like any technique, they are suitable for some and not for others), that is their useful purpose, I don't think the Bible ever attempted to make sense as that wasn't its intention.

«I see no harm in making an idol.»

As a Hindu we do this all the time, we use idols to REPRESENT God, to help [some of] us focus on God, but for some reason or another (be it a religious reason or otherwise, that would require more research) this particular technique was deemed unsuitable for Jews.

«Sabbath observance laws are discriminatory since different religions observe different sabbaths.»

So what's wrong with that? Different methods/techniques can be useful for different people.

«You did what bible bashers do - pick out the good parts and ignore the bad parts. There are many bad parts. In Joshua God orders the Israelites to commit genocide. In that book God is Hitler.»

I was pointing to commandments that can be incorporated as part of one's religion. Not everything in the Bible is religious. While I defend religion, I'm not trying to defend the Bible. You seem to commit the error of believing the Bible' claim that the genocide orders were indeed God's and not, say, Joshua's!

The Bible is the national book of the Jews, a mix of topics of which religion is only one.
It could be written better, more organised, by adding headers/indexes saying:

"The section below is part of our mythology"
"below is part of our national history"
"The section below contains moral lore"
"Below comes civil law"
"Below is a collection of wisdom"
"Below come genealogical and real-estate listings"
and yes, also:
"The section below contains religious instructions for Jews"
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 17 October 2022 12:20:17 AM
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