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The Forum > General Discussion > A Prime Minister Or A Dictator

A Prime Minister Or A Dictator

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The true terror that the Russians had in the Gorbachev years was Reagan's Space Defence Initiative ie a space system that would knock ICBM's out before they could deliver their payload. Even though we now know that SDI would never have worked, the Soviet's were terrified it would eliminate their first strike capacity.

That was why Gorbachev worked toward the various treaties to reduce nukes. It had nothing to do with their desire for peace, and everything to do with their fear of Reagan's military build-up. Not just in space but in the army and airforce as well. Russia was near to bankrupt and couldn't hope to keep pace with the US spending. So again they were forced to seek peace.

Then, as Reagan began to apply pressure to their empire ("Tear down this wall") they realised they had neither the capacity nor the will to resist. They also miscalculated, thinking that their satellite states wanted to remain communist. The Soviet as well as the East German leadership were completely blindsided by the desire of their subjects for freedom, once the military occupation was shown to be a paper tiger. This is why Deng thought Gorbachev was an idiot.

Gorbachev opposed each move toward freedom (eg by eliminating freedom activists in places like Lithuania) until he couldn't. Then he tried to make the best of the disaster.

He is among the most overrated leaders of our time. A pawn of those who truly made history like Reagan and Thatcher.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 1 September 2022 2:02:09 PM
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Gabrielius Landsbergis, the son of Vytautas Landsbergis
who led Lithuania's independent movement in the early
1990s, and is now its top diplomat tweeted that:

"Lithuanians will not glorify Gorbachev."

Memories are still fresh in the Baltic country of January
13th, 1991, when hundreds of Lithuanians headed to the
television tower in Vilnius to oppose Soviet troops deployed
to crush the country's bid to restore its independence.

In the clashes that followed 14 civilians were killed and more
than 140 others were injured. Moscow recognized Lithuania's
independence in August that year.

"We will never forget the simple fact that his army murdered
civilians to prolong his regime's occupation of
our country. His soldiers fired on our unarmed protesters
and crushed them
under his tanks. That is how we will remember him."

However Gorbachev's policies enabled the eventual independence
of the 3 Baltic countries - Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.
That is how I prefer to remember him.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 1 September 2022 3:14:26 PM
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1987..."President Reagan, declaring Baltic freedom day, said Monday the United States will never recognize 'the Soviet Union's illegal and forcible' takeover of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia."

1987..."Reagan to Soviets: 'Get out of the Baltic'"

1987..."'The United States government has never recognized, nor will we, the Soviet Union's illegal and forcible incorporation of the Baltic states,' Reagan said. 'The United States staunchly defends the right of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to exist as independent countries."

2010..."Mr Reagan is extremely popular in Eastern Europe due to his tough stances during the Cold War confrontation with the Soviet Union. He is also credited with fostering the spread of democracy in the region." Lithuania's parliamentary foreign affairs committee.

Reagan strived for and achieved freedom for the captured nations including Lithuania. Gorbachev strived for, fought for and killed to try to keep the captive nations including Lithuania in the Soviet Empire. Crediting Gorbachev places the credit in the exact wrong spot.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 1 September 2022 5:04:12 PM
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The United States has never recognized the de jure
occupation of the Baltic States by the Soviet Union.
It however did accepted the de facto situation that
existed.

It was commendable that President Reagan made the gestures
of acknowledging the Baltic Independence and Freedom
Days - which had been (and are) celebrated throughout the
Baltic and in all of their communities overseas.

Yet the Baltic states remained under Soviet occupation
despite Mr Reagan's speeches and proclamations.

It was the activists in the Baltic States, and their
organisations both in their countries
and abroad that actually achieved results.
And they took the opportunity under Gorbachev's
policies of Glasnost and Perestroika to force the issues.

Mr Gorbachev may not have realized what he was starting - but
once it started - it could not be stopped.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 1 September 2022 9:14:40 PM
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Reagan was a warmonger, as was Thatcher, Reagan's doctrine during his time in office was to wage war through proxies. As a puppet of the US military/industrial complex Reagan promoted wars in Afghanistan, Angola, Lebanon, Grenada, Nicaragua and Cambodia.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 2 September 2022 8:55:31 AM
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Good Morning Paul,

Just checking in to remind people that
Father's Day is only a couple of days away.
I want to wish all the dad's on OLO a Happy
Father's Day - and may you all enjoy the day with
your family members and forget about politics.

Why do we close our eyes when we pray, cry, dream?

Because the most beautiful things in life aren't
seen but felt only by the heart!

Take care.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 2 September 2022 10:07:46 AM
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