Dear Paul,

«The problem Yuyutsu is you assume 'A' and 'B' are negotiating on a level playing field where each exerts the same degree of power over the other»

Well of course, no two people have the same degree of power, intelligence, health and even beauty for that matter, let alone people - what about farm animals that work till they drop for a bit of hay? Such is Nature, so if you have issues with this then you need to address them to the Creator - that would make a good interesting theological discussion, but I am not convinced it belongs in this particular thread.

But on top of the natural variation, governments created a further power gap and bias by unfairly establishing and supporting the excessively-powerful entities called "companies". That should not have happened, but do you at least agree with me that individuals who operate in person in their individual capacity must be exempt from being classified as "employers", that whatever they agree with other individuals is a personal relation rather than an "industrial" relation, thus they should not be made subject to "IR" laws?

«We do have a problem with poverty, and collectively we must deal with that problem.»

For sure. But can you see that once poverty is out of the way, the fact that people have varying degrees of power, intelligence, integrity, health, beauty, etc., even luck, need not be looked at as a problem?

Further, companies and poverty gone, why associate agreements between two individuals as a matter of power, why not as a matter of joy?

«"no politician ever cared about ordinary people" Yuyutsu, a very cynical statement as you could not possibly know every politician.»

I may well know them before they are elected and even think of them as good people, but once they get inside that evil machinery of the state, they become corrupted in no time.

Hi Issy, so your SA has over 200,000 members, when can we expect the torch light processions to begin? Better watch out for the other half of the club, the SS, they could be coming to get you. Did you 'Shuffle off to Buffalo' for the party launch today? I believe it was a real shoot em' up and dodgie car hoot. You know the Shooters and Hooters is the shoot em' up, and dodgie car drivers of the One Nation and Crazy Clive Party, btw how is your good mate, and Fearless Leader Steve "Dicko" Dickson these days.

Anyway Issy, I still love you.

What a stupid little man you are Yuyutsu, of course people need loans. How is any one going to buy a home without borrowing, & most want to own a home.

My son tells me that the long distance drivers for a transport company he has been doing some work for are paid by the trip. They are earning at least $100,000PA so should be able to afford a home, but are prevented from getting a housing loan due to the payment method.

People are much better off on a permanent wage than being permanent casual but excess silly regulations have forced employers to move that way.

Some people seem to think the "working poor" only have themselves to blame for the situation but it was greedy employers and manufacturers who shipped their local jobs off overseas in search of increased profits.

Likewise the government was also complicit by stripping away hard fought-for employment conditions and even encouraging workforce casualisation in lieu of full-time work and financial security of the workforce.

I suspect few High School teenagers spend their time dreaming about getting a job delivering pizzas or being exploited in the "Gig Economy". Meanwhile the wealth of our billionaires has doubled since the start of the pandemic.
https://www.yourinvestmentpropertymag.com.au/expert-advice/kate-forbes/australias-billionaires-doubled-their-wealth-during-covid-pandemic-278949.aspx

It wasn't so long ago that Australia was once considered to be "a farm, a quarry and a nice place to visit" and likely to eventually become "the poor white trash of Asia" and little has changed since.

The current discussion about raising the minimum wage is centred around improving productivity but there has already been a decade of increased productivity that went largely unrewarded but now they face the systematic dismantling of whatever Superannuation many may still have. All this is being dressed up as some sort of economic miracle but historically, people often vote against their own best interests. It will be an interesting few years ahead.

Thanks rache, spot on with the above as usual, Hassy with your; "excess silly regulations have forced employers to move that way." Please explain these "silly regulations" the truth is casualisation is designed for the purpose of boosting the employers bottom line. I will agree there is a limited requirement for short term casual work, like Xmas Santa's, or second employment type casual work, but casual work should not be a dominant feature of full time employment. After a set period the employee should be made permanent with all appropriate benefits.

BTW, no casual employee should be on less than a minimum $35/hour, and substantially more if skilled and/or working outside normal hours.

Hassy, your son, what costs come off the $100k? sick pay insurance, long service leave, annual leave, how many hours worked for the $100k. I would say my son, a permanent Sydney bus driver earning $95k/pa plus benefits such as 5 weeks annual leave, o/t rates, even 5 days covid leave is better off. btw they have a mortgage from a bank.

Gig economy; Does the bloke running a "business" on a bicycle with a box on the back delivering pizza's, have the same bargaining power as the other bloke with 10,000 outlets and a trillion dollar turnover. According to some its all a level playing field.

According to Morrison people working in the gig economy are not entitled to even $21/hr less costs.

Dear Paul,

«Not sure how your snakes and goats biblical quote comes into it.»

Several Biblical passages speak of such world peace, harmony and non-violence as something that will happen either when the Messiah arrives or at the "aftermath of Time". I also happen to believe that it will be so, but only in 426,877 years (by the end of the kali-yuga). For now, we must work with what we have.

---

Dear Hasbeen,

«of course people need loans. How is any one going to buy a home without borrowing, & most want to own a home.»...«People are much better off on a permanent wage than being permanent casual but excess silly regulations have forced employers to move that way.»

Having dug yourself (not you personally) into a ditch, the industrial ditch, no wonder you would be concerned that any move could cause dirt to spill over your head.

But why are we in that ditch to begin with, a ditch full of fears in which we cannot be happy?

Why must having the survival basics such as food and shelter be linked with employment and strife?

Had that not been the case, then surely "casual" work is better, when one can go and leave work when they have better things to do, or when their boss wants them to perform unethical or even just useless things that they do not agree with.

Why should work be done out of fear and not be a joy, something one does proudly as a service to others?

People had and built their houses long before there were banks, and speaking of regulations, it is all the building regulations that make having a home so expensive, where one is not even allowed to build their own home without resorting to building companies and all that red-tape!