One thing this election is highlighting is Australia's working poor, individuals and families that have an income that is barely meeting needs, let along providing any kind of luxuries in life. The old adage that; "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is certainly true in Australia. The bun fight between the parties over wages and housing demonstrates there is a general malaise within the underlying economic conditions for Australia's working poor. Australia is heading in the direction of having a growing underclass of poor folk in employment than ever before. If allowed to continue, big cuts to the living standards of low-income earners, driven by surging costs of living, can lead nowhere else than to an unacceptable standard of survival for many more Australians.

The immediate election issue of Labors support for a $1/hour increase for our lowest paid workers on the minimum wage was welcomed by the majority. Morrison's support for the big end of town with another; "its not my job" nonsense. Sure, Morrison doesn't set minimum wages, the Fair Work Commission does that, but he could have shown leadership and solidarity with ordinary Australian's by echoing Labors call. Does this guy Morrison really care about ordinary Australian's? Me thinks not.

You do know I presume Paul, that your "working poor" in Australia are the highest paid of any anywhere. Not that that helps them when the cost of living has got so high. Many of these costs have been forced by poor regulations imposed on employers, & the economy in general.

I am more concerned about the casualisation of the workforce. This leaves many unable to get housing & other loans, even though their income may be adequate. This is a perfect example of unintended consequences that arise from too many regulations forced upon employers making permanent staff too dangerous to have.

It is hard to understand why an employer is expected to hire an employee for life, when that employee can leave ant tine with a weeks notice.

With the huge cost of getting rid of bad employees, or excess staff in a down turn, regulations have dictated casualisation to the detriment of everyone.

Dear Paul,

Poverty is poverty, period.
If you consider poverty to be a problem, then deal with it, directly, without interfering with whatever private agreements and arrangements people make with each other.

The state should have never been involved with what it calls "employment" - that is none of its legitimate business:

Just because two people agree between them, possibly among other things, that 'A' will do such-and-such work for such-and-such time and 'B' will give them something(s) in return, whether that be money, gratitude, other work in return, sex, mentoring, a place to live in, the hand of their daughter in marriage or whatever, does not warrant labeling the one "employer" and the other "employee", then ordering them what they may or may not agree on.

- Have a problem with poverty? then deal with poverty.

And once there is no longer poverty, once nobody is hungry or cold, then naturally people will not agree to make unsuitable agreements between them that would not serve them!

---

Dear Hasbeen,

«I am more concerned about the casualisation of the workforce.»

Are you not ashamed of thinking of people as "workforce", in other words as slaves? What business of yours is whether, how and when they choose to work for each other?

You are further concerned that people would not be able to get loans... why are you so keen for people to get loans? so that they will be further encumbered, further enslaved for life?

Hi Paul,

I began watching the Liberal Campaign launch in
Brisbane and learned that elections do bring out the
worst in some people. I ended up turning it off. I found
it cringe-worthy and embarrassing . It was so artificial
and "dressed up" with their so called - "achievements,"
the emphasis being on what a great leader Morrison
was. So why does he want to change suddenly? Oh that's
right the pandemic is over? Actually it's not.

What these people don't seem to realize is that no matter
how they try to "dress things up" the hip pocket or the
cost of living for many people is what is important and
the electorate cares about who can deliver on the
fundamentals of their lives. Pretty basic stuff.

It seems that to the Libs elections are not about delivery
but about creating illusions. And boy, they were determined
to create one at this launch. Therein lies the difference
between the two major parties. Anthony Albanese talks
about how he's going to deliver whereas Morrison talks
about what a success
he's been thus far. Really?
Albanese supports a rise in award wages.
While Scott Morrison says a decent rise
is a terrible idea that would damage the economy.

History may well judge this to be the misstep that could cost
Morrison the election. Successful Liberal Leaders like John
Howard know to never be caught within close distance of a sign
saying "Wages Should Be Lowered."

This is not the way to woo outer-suburbs battlers to the Liberal
cause.

Hi Paul,

I forgot to add that having spoken to many of our
family, friends, colleagues, and neighbours,
who've previously been Liberal supporters
for most of their lives - have now decided to go
for Independents.

Dear Paul,

«Does this guy Morrison really care about ordinary Australian's? Me thinks not.»

One does not need to be old and wisened to tell that - Morrison is a politician and no politician ever cared about ordinary people, nor would any of these predators do so in future.

Would you like to know when such a miracle can happen?
It is said that at the end of days...

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest" [Isaiah 11:6-8]

... only then shall a politician care about ordinary people!

Talking about caring for ordinary people?

George Carlin once said:

"I'm pretty sick of church people. You know what they
ought to do with churches? Tax them.
If Holy People are so interested in politics,
government, and public policy, let them pay the price of
admission like everybody else. The Catholic Church alone
could wipe out the national debt if all you did was tax
their real estate."

The argument that the "poor employer" can't sustain the demands of "greedy workers" is not supported by the facts. In general small business does very well in Australia, the failures are the lazy, the unintelligent or the downright stupid, I had several years in the 1980's at running a successful small business with two employees.

The problem Yuyutsu is you assume 'A' and 'B' are negotiating on a level playing field where each exerts the same degree of power over the other, not so in reality. We do have a problem with poverty, and collectively we must deal with that problem.

"no politician ever cared about ordinary people" Yuyutsu, a very cynical statement as you could not possibly know every politician. Not sure how your snakes and goats biblical quote comes into it.

"Wages Should Be Lowered." There's the rub Foxy, the problem for the likes of Howard is he agreed with the sign, but didn't want to be associated with such a sign. The Liberal leadership always have the problem of being against the people, but at the same time needing the peoples support so they can kick em' in the guts! What's that about; "You can fool all of the people, some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" That's the Coalition for you.

Yuyutsu,
You forget about the Shooters Fishers and Farmers Party who do think about and represent ordinary Australians.

Shooters Fishers and Farmers Party, the untainted Party.

The Shooter and Hooters had their campaign launch today in Buffalo NY, they shot 10 dead. The shooting was a race hate crime.

This is the party that is financed by the American NRA through their Australian chapter the SSAA. Their policy includes arming five year old's. "support measures increasing a person’s right to self-defence." They have no policy in regards to age or competency. This is a party of gun happy misfits that supports uncontrolled gun ownership in Australia, American style. Fortunately at a Federal election they are not even a blip on the radar. Back em' to win Issy, they'll get you a "sheep station" for a dollar if they get up.

Paul,
More asinine allegations, can’t find a reference to back yourself up?
Why don’t you invent one?

The SSAA now has 209,153 members as of March 2022.
They have their own insurance company which caters to members including income support.
See insurance@ssaains.com.au before making any fatuous remarks.

I'm thinking Pauline, or Clive maybe..
Would prefer the independents give the majors a run for their money but they're all part of that Climate 200 thing,
And as much as I think Scomos done a very average job it's nothing compared to the poor effort I expect from Albo and Wong.

I'd rather choose a couple of well-presented cane-toads out in the driveway before I'd vote for Labor candidates.
And they would probably do less harm in the long run too.

Dear Paul,

«The problem Yuyutsu is you assume 'A' and 'B' are negotiating on a level playing field where each exerts the same degree of power over the other»

Well of course, no two people have the same degree of power, intelligence, health and even beauty for that matter, let alone people - what about farm animals that work till they drop for a bit of hay? Such is Nature, so if you have issues with this then you need to address them to the Creator - that would make a good interesting theological discussion, but I am not convinced it belongs in this particular thread.

But on top of the natural variation, governments created a further power gap and bias by unfairly establishing and supporting the excessively-powerful entities called "companies". That should not have happened, but do you at least agree with me that individuals who operate in person in their individual capacity must be exempt from being classified as "employers", that whatever they agree with other individuals is a personal relation rather than an "industrial" relation, thus they should not be made subject to "IR" laws?

«We do have a problem with poverty, and collectively we must deal with that problem.»

For sure. But can you see that once poverty is out of the way, the fact that people have varying degrees of power, intelligence, integrity, health, beauty, etc., even luck, need not be looked at as a problem?

Further, companies and poverty gone, why associate agreements between two individuals as a matter of power, why not as a matter of joy?

«"no politician ever cared about ordinary people" Yuyutsu, a very cynical statement as you could not possibly know every politician.»

I may well know them before they are elected and even think of them as good people, but once they get inside that evil machinery of the state, they become corrupted in no time.

Hi Issy, so your SA has over 200,000 members, when can we expect the torch light processions to begin? Better watch out for the other half of the club, the SS, they could be coming to get you. Did you 'Shuffle off to Buffalo' for the party launch today? I believe it was a real shoot em' up and dodgie car hoot. You know the Shooters and Hooters is the shoot em' up, and dodgie car drivers of the One Nation and Crazy Clive Party, btw how is your good mate, and Fearless Leader Steve "Dicko" Dickson these days.

Anyway Issy, I still love you.

What a stupid little man you are Yuyutsu, of course people need loans. How is any one going to buy a home without borrowing, & most want to own a home.

My son tells me that the long distance drivers for a transport company he has been doing some work for are paid by the trip. They are earning at least $100,000PA so should be able to afford a home, but are prevented from getting a housing loan due to the payment method.

People are much better off on a permanent wage than being permanent casual but excess silly regulations have forced employers to move that way.

Some people seem to think the "working poor" only have themselves to blame for the situation but it was greedy employers and manufacturers who shipped their local jobs off overseas in search of increased profits.

Likewise the government was also complicit by stripping away hard fought-for employment conditions and even encouraging workforce casualisation in lieu of full-time work and financial security of the workforce.

I suspect few High School teenagers spend their time dreaming about getting a job delivering pizzas or being exploited in the "Gig Economy". Meanwhile the wealth of our billionaires has doubled since the start of the pandemic.
https://www.yourinvestmentpropertymag.com.au/expert-advice/kate-forbes/australias-billionaires-doubled-their-wealth-during-covid-pandemic-278949.aspx

It wasn't so long ago that Australia was once considered to be "a farm, a quarry and a nice place to visit" and likely to eventually become "the poor white trash of Asia" and little has changed since.

The current discussion about raising the minimum wage is centred around improving productivity but there has already been a decade of increased productivity that went largely unrewarded but now they face the systematic dismantling of whatever Superannuation many may still have. All this is being dressed up as some sort of economic miracle but historically, people often vote against their own best interests. It will be an interesting few years ahead.

Thanks rache, spot on with the above as usual, Hassy with your; "excess silly regulations have forced employers to move that way." Please explain these "silly regulations" the truth is casualisation is designed for the purpose of boosting the employers bottom line. I will agree there is a limited requirement for short term casual work, like Xmas Santa's, or second employment type casual work, but casual work should not be a dominant feature of full time employment. After a set period the employee should be made permanent with all appropriate benefits.

BTW, no casual employee should be on less than a minimum $35/hour, and substantially more if skilled and/or working outside normal hours.

Hassy, your son, what costs come off the $100k? sick pay insurance, long service leave, annual leave, how many hours worked for the $100k. I would say my son, a permanent Sydney bus driver earning $95k/pa plus benefits such as 5 weeks annual leave, o/t rates, even 5 days covid leave is better off. btw they have a mortgage from a bank.

Gig economy; Does the bloke running a "business" on a bicycle with a box on the back delivering pizza's, have the same bargaining power as the other bloke with 10,000 outlets and a trillion dollar turnover. According to some its all a level playing field.

According to Morrison people working in the gig economy are not entitled to even $21/hr less costs.

Dear Paul,

«Not sure how your snakes and goats biblical quote comes into it.»

Several Biblical passages speak of such world peace, harmony and non-violence as something that will happen either when the Messiah arrives or at the "aftermath of Time". I also happen to believe that it will be so, but only in 426,877 years (by the end of the kali-yuga). For now, we must work with what we have.

---

Dear Hasbeen,

«of course people need loans. How is any one going to buy a home without borrowing, & most want to own a home.»...«People are much better off on a permanent wage than being permanent casual but excess silly regulations have forced employers to move that way.»

Having dug yourself (not you personally) into a ditch, the industrial ditch, no wonder you would be concerned that any move could cause dirt to spill over your head.

But why are we in that ditch to begin with, a ditch full of fears in which we cannot be happy?

Why must having the survival basics such as food and shelter be linked with employment and strife?

Had that not been the case, then surely "casual" work is better, when one can go and leave work when they have better things to do, or when their boss wants them to perform unethical or even just useless things that they do not agree with.

Why should work be done out of fear and not be a joy, something one does proudly as a service to others?

People had and built their houses long before there were banks, and speaking of regulations, it is all the building regulations that make having a home so expensive, where one is not even allowed to build their own home without resorting to building companies and all that red-tape!

Yuyutsu,
The Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party have had MsP for over 20 years, none of them were.corrupt or corrupted.

As o sung wu remarked Ted Mack was an outstanding politician and absolutely above corruption, he even resigned early from Parliament so that he didn’t qualify for a Parliamentary Pension , the which he considered to be unjustifiable.

Hi Issy,

Ted Mack was not a member of the Shooters and Hooters, he detested Nazi's. What about "Elephant' Bob who shot and killed the poor Elephants, and your good mate Tony Azzie, the illegal wombat killer. Then there was Steve 'Dicko' Dixon , chasing political millions from the NRA. What about how the SSAA trained John Edwards to use a gun to kill his children.

Any comment on; "A white 18-year-old wearing military gear and livestreaming with a helmet camera opened fire with a rifle at a supermarket in Buffalo, killing 10 people and wounding three others Saturday in what authorities described as “racially motivated violent extremism.”

If the Shooters and Hooters were in power in Australia, this would be happening here every other day.

Paul,
Having trouble finding any thing wrong with SF and F Party MsP; you have my sympathy in your futile quest.

Did you know that there is to be a three month assessment of the NSW Firearms Registry, they are so incompetent that the Government finally has to act.
SF&F Party and the SSAA brought the matter to a head.
SF&F were also responsible for the Traffic Spy Camera cars. on our roads now having to display signs again.

Salutations Issy,

I'm not totally against the Shooters and Hooters, at least they annoy The Nationals in country NSW. Besides my relos in Orange vote for them. I did once spend time with a bloke from the party at a pre-poll some years back, a decent chap, he was a Hooter (4WD) not a Shooter, was rather pro Labor. Me thinks he could have blown into Sydney with a flock of bin chickens or something, Shooters and Hooters are not known to do pre-polls in inner Sydney.

My old grandfather, a 'cow cocky' a staunch Country Party man, the 'Old Man' I've said before he was a Langite (Lang Labour) thought the sun shone out of Jack lang's arse. Always lamented that the Commo's in Labour never gave Lang a fair go. I recall how he was shocked when Paul Keating came to power in Federal Labor, he said something like; "its one thing for the Menzies mob to have a poofter on show, but the Labor Party, this Keating bloke, he should be tared and feathered and frog marched up George Street." I said; "times change Dad" ....Mum would annoy the 'Old Man' with; "I rather like Mr Menzies, I think I will vote for him."

Issy nothing to say on this;

"Payton Gendron, 18, will be prosecuted for hate crimes — he live-streamed the attack in a predominantly black neighbourhood from a helmet camera before surrendering to authorities"

10 shot dead. You avoid comment on mass shootings, Why? As the gunnies here are in favour of uncontrolled guns laws, similar to the US.

Paul,
Hate crimes in the US have as little to do with us as do the hate crimes in South Africa, which you never mention.
The firearm owners that I mix with are all in favour of the gun laws when they are fairly administered.
After all it’s the gun laws that have given us new and improved ranges (ours’ even has mains electricity and modern toilets, including disabled, and showers), way out in the bush.
Political clout and standing in the community as trusted individuals; and a totally unexpected spinoff of protection from scammers ripping people off by offering rare guns or hard to get components as is happening in the US and also in Europe.

My dad used to say about Bob Menzies, that he was the only politician that ever got elected when no one said that they voted for him.

Bula Vinaka Issy,

You can't ruffle me today, our "Boy" 22, in Fiji is doing well at his work in the Design Office, and his manager has given him a very good report, and a small pay rise, which will help, as I understand his mother is not well, and he lost one of his older sisters not that long ago. He tells us "no girlfriend, no time for girls", doesn't drink or smoke, no gambling, just church group. He is boarding with an aunt, and supporting his mum as well. Will send him a good "birthday" present in July

The working poor have been created by excessive bureaucrat salaries which caused the imbalance & are driving up costs & prices.
Freezing Public service salaries from $200,00 upwards will bring low wages back to where they are again economically viable for employers.
The point is that too many are paid too much for nothing being achieved. Do not confuse professionals with un-required bureaucrats. Those bureaucrats who do serve some purpose have to accept that we the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay them above their level of competence & merit.
The Peter Principle must be done away with asap.

A $1/hr increase doesn't achieve half as much as a $1/hr cut in bureaucrat salaries would !

Wages go up 5%
Then there's payroll tax
So cost of business goes up like 8%
So then businesses have to put prices up 15%

And everyone is paying more a whole lot more than what was gained
it's a race to the bottom

Armchair,
If the cost of business goes up 8%, why would they have to raise their prices nearly double that?

Aidan,
You really have no clue how things work in business do you ! To put it simple, business has to make a profit, the Public Service doesn't have to do anything except just being there !

Years ago a mate had a pest control business and he employed four men.
As Government charges and regulations ate into his already slim profit margin he got rid of the employees.
He used the simple expedient of setting them up as contractors; they still worked for him but all concerned came out better off.

is Mine,
isn't it a sad indictment when an economy is so badly managed that only the exploiting of loopholes can make people get by ?

Individual,
It wasn’t really a loophole and they were all better off.
The mate was relieved of much responsibility and extra paperwork
His former employees were now responsible for their own insurance etc. but they could now claim more expenses, notably the cost of fuel to get them to work, something that all Governments have denied those who are employees and not businessmen.

they were all better off.
is Mise,
I don't doubt that for one moment, I'm thinking of the others who became affected by the flow-on. When one lot gets more, another lot gets less ! As soon as one lot gets more another lot instantly feels entitled to get more also.
It's merely a Dog chasing its tail.
We'll see that happening in the next few weeks when wages go up by ten times less than what everything else will go up by !
Brace yourself for increased taxes blamed on the previous Govt.

Hey Aiden,
"If the cost of business goes up 8%, why would they have to raise their prices nearly double that?"
It's called 'markup', maintaining a certain amount of profit, based on your costs.

I'm sure you know about PE ratios and ROI far better than me Aiden.

You know the one subject kids don't learn about in school?

- Money -

We don't prepare our kids to be entrepreneurs.
That would require an understanding of money, accounting, business, tax, real estate and loans.
Our kids in public schools are prepared for a life of servitude as employees, or if they're lucky academics.
Where private school kids are prepared for a life of owning people, as employers or again they become academics.

The reason I think the system is built this way is simple.
Rich people will always need people beneath them to do the things they don't want to do.

- Like emptying the bins and cleaning the toilets -

That requires different classes of people.

People pay a fortune sending their kids to private schools so that they don't have to do that when they grow up, but we don't really teach or prepare our kids to be entrepreneurs, that's outside the system, it doesn't serve it.

I think there's more emphasis on getting kids into University these days because it serves a bigger political agenda.
- If you can get people to glue themselves to roads or chain themselves to trees, then for one, that makes the country less productive, which means people need to swipe their credit cards more to pay for their living expenses (keep them all poor) and secondly they become more indoctrinated to preferred global agendas, such as climate change and identity politics, and these things do serve the system.

Ac,
I went to a private school and 99% of the students came from working class families.
A few of them became employers in a small way, two of us became soldiers and later tradesmen, of the rest of my class two became teachers and two became Marist Brothers/teachers, the rest were workers.
This break down of students careers is fairly typical of most private schools, only the Greater Public Schools would possibly fit your criteria.

...private school and 99% of the students came from working class families.
is Mise,
In our area 99% of kids from all indigenous families go to private schools free with pocket money provided, non-indigenous working class kids families have to pay.

Armchair,
>"If the cost of business goes up 8%, why would they have to raise their prices nearly double that?"
>It's called 'markup', maintaining a certain amount of profit, based on your costs.
>I'm sure you know about PE ratios and ROI far better than me Aiden.

It appears I really do!

If the cost of business goes up 8% and your prices go up 15% to maintain the same profit level, it means your profits are nearly double your costs. Indeed probably more than double, as some business costs are already sunk.

So rather than HAVING TO raise prices by 15%, the business is only using rising costs as an excuse to further boost its profits by charging the customers more.

>People pay a fortune sending their kids to private schools so that they don't have to do that when they grow up,
Few do in my state, and nobody should have to. But the governments of the eastern states seem to have found that there's a federal incentive for them to provide substandard education!

>but we don't really teach or prepare our kids to be entrepreneurs, that's outside the system, it doesn't serve it.
I really don't get your serving the system hypothesis. ISTM globalization would destroy the gains that those in power would otherwise make from it.

In any case to keep the same % of profit, the same PE and the same ROI the cost of goods and services has to go up MORE than the wage cost.
Then there's other factors as well like fuel and electricity, it's not just wage costs but also transport and energy costs.

Don't expect things to get any cheaper, that's for sure.

You simply can not narrow the gap of inequality by making it wider ! That's what Public Service salaries do in comparison to industry wages !