The Government of NSW, with support from most parties has passed legislation that will see protestors who disrupt traffic and other legitimate movement of people and/or goods face heavy fines and jail time.
Fireproof Australia is one group that says it will not stop protesting.
Recent protests have gridlocked traffic.
Comments?

Expressing a point of view peacefully is one thing.
(it is integral to the working of democracy)
But disrupting the normal movement of people and goods is quite another.
It can cause unreasonable harm and disadvantage to citizens.
It is not beneficial to business or social activity, and should be frowned upon?

Rent-a-crowds must be dealt with far more harshly !

Indeed, why block roads against innocent ordinary people when instead you can serve them by turning government buildings into new roads?

Robert Askin was right all along....
http://www.drive.com.au/news/milestones-robert-askins-drive-over-the-bastards-quip-20141014-115b56/

They might 'face' heavy fines and imprisonment, but will the penalties be applied? Magistrates in Australia don't do their jobs properly. They all need to be replaced by people who will fine and jail people who think that they are above law. Too many of these publicly employed bludgers allow their private opinions to override their responsibilities. Climate change emotivism had one ratbag magistrate actually praising praising thugs recently, saying that he would be proud if his own daughter flouted the law.

Oh yes, the Usual Suspects have a topic they can get their teeth into, PROTEST! Talk of decent peacful decent is unacceptable to some, actual protest is in itself seen as an act of treason in their happy police state. Rubber bullets and tear gas are not enough, protest calls for live ammunition no less.

mhaze invokes the name of the gutless, corupt, war mungering, long dead Liberal Priemer of NSW Robin Askin. Askin was nothing more than wortless rubbish.

Protests that cause traffic gridlock endanger lives, emergency services, especially fire and ambulance cannot get through.
If someone dies as a consequence of this type of protest then the charge should be upgraded to manslaughter.

Since they have time to protest, they can spend time in jail, they will not be missed from a functioning society.

As though we don't have enough idiots of our own, we recently had a German here on a visitor's visa swinging from a bridge like a monkey. He was quickly returned to his own country where they have realised, since the Russia/Ukraine business, that they need to stick with fossil fuels and to halt the closure of nuclear plants.

they will not be missed from a functioning society.
Josephus,
Imagine the many prison warden positions that could be created if we locked up the disruptive morons ?
If we all contribute say $5.-/week we could have a better society & smoother running society.

People are entitled to protest - but they need
to do it lawfully or they face the consequences.
There are laws that we all need to abide by for
the sake of social cohesion.

Dear Foxy,

«People are entitled to protest - but they need
to do it lawfully or they face the consequences.»

Forget about that "lawfully": they need to do it without hurting innocent others.

«There are laws that we all need to abide by for
the sake of social cohesion.»

What then about those (like me) who have no interest in social cohesion?
Abstaining from hurting others is a universal value which remains paramount whether or not one is interested in laws and social cohesion.

Yuyutsu,
I agree with you on that !

Yuyutsu,

Not everyone is as considerate of others as you
obviously are. That's why we have laws to keep everyone
safe, comfortable, and have a better society.

That's why we have laws to keep everyone
safe, comfortable, and have a better society.
Foxy,
Do you think that persecuting victims & sheltering offenders is in the realm of laws of keeping citizens safe ?
Do you think that having the highest drug abuse in the World fits into better society ?
A Democracy where minority groups have the support of Courts when they query majority vote outcome ?
Yes, we're very fortunate thus far but just you wait till the population increases to uncontrollable numbers !

individual,

If people did not obey the rules of the road -
accidents would happen. If people were allowed to steal and
murder - none of us would be safe. If you continued to
park in a handicapped people's zone - think of what you
would be doing to people with disability. We have laws for
a variety of reasons. They do make for a better society.
At least that's my opinion. You're welcome to disagree.
And you're welcome to not obey the laws and pay the consequences.
The choice is yours.

Hi Issy,

Didn't you once claim you were part of a 20,000 strong gun crazy protest in Sydney? Blocking several main city streets, disrupting traffic and other legitimate movement of people and/or goods. Hummmmmm rubber bullets and tear gas wouldn't cut it. 20,000 you say, that might call for live ammo and water cannon! In the immortal words of the great LIBERAL Premier of NSW, Robin Askin, "how much dosh is in that brown paper bag!" sorry wrong quote, "run over the bastards!"

Dear Foxy,

«That's why we have laws to keep everyone
safe, comfortable, and have a better society.»

We have laws because some people imposed them on us.

The question is, what allowed them to do so?

If your answer is that they had the power to do it,
then there ends the discussion - might is right.

But if you believe that some moral justification is needed for
imposing rules on others, then you need to provide that justification.

So I understand that you want to be safe, that you have a notion of safety and believe
that imposing laws on others achieves that purpose. Well yes, perhaps it does, to some extent anyway.
But could you not achieve that degree of safety even without such drastic measures that hurt others?

Then you also want to be comfortable.
Are you feeling comfortable to live in a society that imposes laws on others
who never even expressed a wish to have anything to do with that society?
Are you also comfortable to live in a neighbourhood of others that are angry and frustrated
about having these laws imposed on them by strangers and completely against their will?

Then you also want to have a better society, and again, is that a better society which rather than
inviting people to join its ranks freely, considers everyone who happens to live on the land
to be its member whether they like it or not?

I just asked you several hard questions and I think that I should stop here
before I really overwhelm you and then again, possibly you could answer
my first question with "Yes indeed, it's their power to do it" and then might is right
and so you do not need to address any of my other questions.

---

Just noticed some new additions were made while composing my above response. briefly then:

«If people were allowed to steal and
murder - none of us would be safe.»

Yes of course, but is imposing laws on others the only way to prevent them from stealing and murdering? I think not.

Yuyutsu,

I believe in the rule of law.

We've been over this many times in the past.

In this country people elect their representatives
who make the laws. And the laws are not set in concrete.
They do and have changed over time. We elect the governments
that we want to represent us. If we disapprove of any laws -
we apply pressure to have the laws changed. We also can
change our governments.

I do not wish to argue with you.

Yuyutsu,

For a community or a society to work it needs to have
a level of structure that applies to everyone and is
understood by everyone. Laws create that structure and
regulate the way in which people, organisations and
governments behave.

Having the rule of law limits the powers of governments,
businesses and citizens and protects citizens against the use
of arbitrary power - autocratic decisions not bound on law.

SBS had a doco on the Hong Kong protests this afternoon. These anarchists were shown to be worse than anarchists, they were right-out criminal !
Why the Chinese Govt forces didn't go in more heavy-handed is a mystery !

And you're welcome to not obey the laws and pay the consequences.
I have always obeyed the Law & copped the short end of the stick instead of those who robbed me !
They got free legal aid, I couldn't even engage a lwyer because we don't have any in town !
All these things you mentio would happen if we had no Law are in fact happening with the Law we have !

individual,

We obviously live in different worlds.

We obviously live in different worlds.
Foxy,
I'll let other posters with sober observations answer that !

Dear Foxy,

You believe what you believe and I respect that.
I also believe in what I believe.

The question is where are our red lines, how far are we willing to go and what immoral acts are we willing to commit in order to obtain what we believe in.

Your particular belief is in the rule of law.
I have my own list of beliefs, too long to list here.
And a Muslim too, for example, may believe that all women must wear a Burka.
And I respect that too, so long as they do not use violence and abuse to make that happen by hook or by crook.

Having known you for years, Foxy, I am confident that you wouldn't willingly murder or rape for getting your goal of having the rule of law in this country. Your good heart would not allow you to.

But lesser, minor, injuries, I think are not out of the question, what if it's only a verbal abuse, some threatening nudge to bring others to toe the line and support your rule of law?

Where exactly go your red lines, only you can tell.


«For a community or a society to work it needs...»

Wait, just pause here please: what does "to work" mean?
It is shaky to continue here when there is no consensus about it, and I believe there isn't, but for now let's go on anyway:

«...to have a level of structure that applies to everyone and is
understood by everyone. Laws create that structure»

So what exact level is needed? what kind of structure exactly?
Of course we cannot determine this without going back to try and agree what "to work" means.
Nevertheless, cannot such structure, be also constructed and achieve more or less that same
using much less violence and draconic means than what the law-structure that we now have requires?

Anyway, I have burdened you enough today, so I wish you a sweet night.

Paul,
The protest by gun owners was more than 20,000 and it was entirely lawful, and carried out in a calm and peaceful manner.
There was prior liaison with the Police and everything was legal and above board and not even one firearm was carried, even as a token gesture.

As a peaceful, well organised demonstration it stands as a model for lawful demonstration, and it was held on a Sunday so that there was a minimum of disruption and no one was blocked from travelling through Sydney.

Of course, as a legal protest the Greens opposed and deplored it which is in contrast to their support of illegal protests and their opposition to the new laws.

Paul,
Addendum; I wasn’t physically part of the protest, I photographed it from the roof of the Law Courts building as it allowed views of Elizabeth St. and the area in front of Parliament House.
I add that I had permission to be on said roof and to take photos of the march.

You either teach a child the limit to which you can go before breaking a law, or the value of being a responsible citizen and acting with respect. It is either the fear of the Police or the fear of one's own conscience as personal accountability.

The Law is a limit switch.
Just like a switch, if it's of poor quality it'll let you down when you need it it most !

Issy, I respect your right to peaceful protest, even if I don't agree with what you are on about.

Paul,

Pray tell what you disagree with in what I wrote, tell us all where I erred and put me to shame.

Happy to see laws to deal with the right-wing nutjobs along with their anti-vax buddies who have closed not only our capital but also others in countries like the US and Canada over the last year.

They have been the ones who have forced these laws on to the books. Retrograde step in many ways but understandable.

Hi Issy,

I was only refering to your right to protest, not these laws, which in my opinion are retrograde and dangerous to civil liberties. Protests above all should be peacful, and organised in such a way to be the least disruptive to the general community. There are plenty of police powers in place to "protect" the community from those who disrupt.

The coppers have come a long way in that they don't jump straight in these days, and start kicking heads as they once did.

Protests should be aimed at those you have a gripe with, don't inconvenience, disrupt or cause damage or harm to those that you're claiming to protest for !

Indy, was that you in the Newcastle pub having a go at ScumO' about the lack of beer and pokie money for the aged welfare mob?

was that you in the Newcastle pub
Paul1405,
No, just some disgruntled Labor voter blaming Scomo for Labor's legacy !

Yuyutsu said- "Forget about that "lawfully": they need to do it without hurting innocent others."

Answer- In the animal kingdom they eat each other- even their own kind- mankind does too- under cover of validity. Tools in the toolbox- one innocent tool says "murder". Everyone is trying to murder everyone- one murder doesn't end where another begins- 11

Dear Canem Malum,

Other than in Hollywood cartoons, I never saw animals marching in protest.

I never saw animals marching in protest.
Yuyutsu,
They're just about all animals, they just look human !