cont'd ...

Dear David F.,

There are different opinions within families.
So I understand about your cousin and his views.
I have family members with whom I also don't
see eye-to-eye. But they are family - and we
tolerate each other. I try not to broach certain
subjects with them knowing how they view things.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Unconditional support is not the same as unconditional agreement. It is worse. It means one supports even though one does not agree.

Dear David,

«It is worse. It means one supports even though one does not agree.»

Yes, that was the story of Bhishma in the Mahabharata, who was the grand-grandfather of the whole clan of Kurus.

In his youth, when his mother was gone, his father King Shantanu wanted to marry a new wife, he was desperately in love with Satyavati, but her father refused to marry her off saying that Bhishma and his progeny would take over her sons as kings. For love of his father, Bhishma then took two terrible oaths that:
1) he will always remain celibate.
2) he will always unconditionally remain and support whoever sat on his father's throne.

So his father remarried and two generations later there came to rule King Dhritarashtra who was blind in more than one way, not only physically but also blind to the evils of his sons. The feud between Dhritarashtra's evil children and his nephews, the good sons of his brother, the late king Pandu, deteriorated and became more and more foul until the big war between them was inevitable - and 186 years old Bhishma who could stop it but due to his vows only watched in agony as the events unfolded, who was also the best warrior at the time, was forced to fight on the side of evil. In his heart, even while fighting against them, he always supported the good sons of Pandu and he was so relieved once he was gravely wounded in that war so he could no longer fight.

... but in the context of this thread, that would be the case if Israel was inherently and irredeemably evil, rather than just fallen due to a poor mistake. I believe that Israel can be redeemed, if only supported through tough love to let go of the poisoned fruits of its 1967 war.

Foxy,

Criticising Israel is not in itself antisemitism. What is antisemitism is falsely accusing Israel of "war crimes" or apartheid, comparing them to Nazis or generally holding Israel to standards that are not applied to the Palestinians.

Notably, the entire Hamas organisation has now been classified as a terrorist organisation.

shadow minister,

Criticising Israel's policies and practices is not
anti-semitism. We've already covered all of this
and citing terms like "war crimes" and "apartheid"
where applicable, is done according to international laws
that Israel continues to break.

As for Hamas? Hamas is the largest of several Palestinian
militant Islamist groups that rules Gaze. The humanitarian
situation for millions of Palestinians in Gaze has
deteriorated. The strips economy has collapsed and there
are shortages of water, electricity and medicine.

Will listing Hamas as a terrorist organization do anything
to advance the cause of peace?

Foxy,

The problem is that you and other left whingers say the right things and then do the opposite.

"Criticising Israel's policies and practices is not
anti-semitism.... citing terms like "war crimes" and "apartheid"
where applicable"

It would appear that you have no idea was is and isn't a war crime or even what apartheid was let alone where they are applicable.

For example, all Israeli citizens, Jewish, Muslim, black, brown white have freedom of movement in Israel, the right to vote and the right to stand for parliament. None of this was possible for non-whites under apartheid. Calling Israel apartheid is as flawed and frivolous as fwit demonstrators calling conservatives Nazis.

Similarly, anyone with a passing understanding of the Geneva convention would realise that Israel's retaliation against rocket fire was entirely justified according to the GC and not a war crime. Whereas much of what Hamas was doing was clearly war crimes.

So do yourself a favour and read the terms of the GC and what Apartheid actually was before making yourself look either like an ignoramus or a racist.