The PM wants to bring forward the reopening of our international boarders. Obviously the university sector, & Qantas are bringing pressure to bear.

Just chatting to a few around here, Queensland so actually legal to talk to friends, I have no doubt such a reopening, & the boost in infections it most definitely will bring, will be the death of him, & his party.

To hell with special interests, lets get this country up & running, if that is possible, & all state & interstate lockdowns are a bad memory, before betting the farm that vaccination is the all pervading answer.

Keep the international boarders shut until all lockdowns are just a bad memory.

Dear Hasbeen,

I totally agree with you on this one.

So long as people arrive only into infected areas where people and governments gave up on eliminating the virus, that's fine because it makes no difference in terms of COVID risks.

BUT, if they live in a safe area then it makes no sense for them to arrive because they will be stuck away from their homes anyway, better for them to remain overseas.

Kudos Hasbeen.

Yes. It would be the height of stupidity to open borders to anyone outside Australia when Australians cannot move freely about their own country.

What would appear to make the federal government even more confused - or mad and disloyal to Australians if you like - is the fact that while continuing to block 38,000 Australian citizens from Australia, they allowed 60,000 immigrants, many from China, to enter Australia in the same period.

Yes Hasbeen.

I'm sure the million or so people who used to be employed in the tourism industry completely agree with you.

_____________________________________________________________________

Speaking of international travel, on this day 2351 years ago Alexander of Macedon and 47000 of his friends defeated Darius III and 100000 of his mates at the village of Guagamela and began an extended tour of the Middle East,Afghanistan and India. I'm not sure if they bothered with virus passports in those days.

I didn't know that mhaze, how remiss of me, I'll bake a cake, and light a candle, you should do the same.

As for Morrison, the bloke is a complete cock-up. His efforts with the pandemic have been next to useless. Morrison failed with quanentean and the vaccine roll-out, two tasks that were vital for protecting Australian lives. The result of Morrison incomperdence has seen more than a thousand die, and tens of thousands infected. All in all, we can thank the six state Premiers and two Chief Ministers for their efforts in controlling the virus. There have been mistakes made, last year in Victoria, and now in NSW, but I think the state and territory leaders have been proactive in their fight against Covid.

Dear Hasbeen,

Mate, so you are finally waking up to how must conservative politics and decision making is so dominated by the wishes and needs of big business.

Welcome to the real world.

Well said Steele, Morrison has struck out in every area of his responsibility in this pandemic. Now he's trying to score some brownie points by claiming leadership with boarders. Try as he likes he is still incompetent.

Come on SR.

Labor, the unions & big business are the trifecta that has been ripping us all off for decades.

The libs are trying to catch up, but babes in the woods compared to the rip off ability of that lot.

Paul1405 said the following- I'm not sure these words are English- maybe someone can explain these to me- there comes a point where writing is no longer communication. Or maybe it's the communist tendancy to discredit pride in ones work.

And they say I'm not Australian.

quanentean
incomperdence

CM, I also have very bad eyesight, so stick it up your arse, you grub. I do have difficulties if I use my phone to write a post, so stick that up you arse as well you bloody pompous Nazi!

"I didn't know that mhaze, how remiss of me,"

Well I was just trying to provide some perspective. An event from 2351 yrs ago still remembered as the day the greatest empire the world had seen to that point fell to a new vibrant civilisation that came to influence the Middle East for a millennium and Europe right down today. By comparison the current brouhaha will be laughed at in 2351 weeks as the time a once sensible and free folk lost all sense of proportion in their hysterical search for safety.

I mentioned earlier that those in the tourist industry might not share the desire to remain coddled in their jammies to beat the dreaded virus and might look forward to rebuilding their shattered lives. I saw a few people on TV last night from the education sector who also looked forward to a return to some normality via overseas students. So another coupla hundred-thousand who support re-joining the world.

CM,

Worse than Paul's problems with literacy are his manners, his temper, and his obsession with 'Nazis', not to mention his lack of knowledge. There is simply no point in trying to deal with him or that woman. The Uglies of OLO are best ignored.

Ahh, the resident forum nasty ttbn - comes out again.
The same old sausage fizzing and sputtering in
his own grease

CM,

You mustn't be too harsh. The education in Juvenile detention is pretty poor.

When the vaccination rates reach 80% then there is no reason to keep the economy locked down. The borders (not boarders) must open.

CM , ttbn and SM,

When you guys get together in the bunker for dress ups, who gets to play Hitler? I know, you take it in turns.

ttbn; You're pretty far right, its the chicken farmer for you, Heinrich Himmler.

CM; You see yourself as the intellectual one, a cut above the others, always quoting Wagner, love collecting paintings, or some nonsense. Herman Goring.

SM; You the deviant one, always talking about the "P" people, you would have to be Ernst Rohm.

See, there is a perfect character for all of you. Can't all be the Fuhrer all of the time.

If I come along I'll be General Patton, that will spoil the party.

Smile fellas, life's too short.

KUDOS PAUL.

There's something redundant about calling a bad dog bad. Thanks for the Kudos.

ttbn- Yes as you say "don't feed the trolls". I'm a bit conflicted- in some contexts- failure to answer "the opposition" is admission of their claims so one feels somewhat obliged at times.

CM,

I know what you mean, but there comes a point when you have to accept that it's a waste of time. I'm about to go back into my fast upward scroll mode, very fast past the two Uglies, stopping only at sensible posters. Lie down with dogs for too long and you get fleas.

Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty
and the pig enjoys it.

ttbn, did you not claim some time back you wouldn't be reading the post of the 'Three Amigos', Foxy SR and Me. You never stopped, and you kept replying. You are full of it!

Shadow Minister- With respect I would keep the national borders closed- it would keep new strains out- and the old strains would die off in time- with some effort- but the globalists won't accept closed borders- for now- they are willing to sacrifice life and liberty for globalism- at least they are consistent- but don't think for one second that they are doing this for your interest- as they claim.

There are other challenges down this road- such as antibiotic immunity- perhaps they justify multiculturalism as mitigating ethno-weaponry of various forms.

Pauliar,

You are the chief troll and liar on this site. You used to throw out the P-word frequently until it came apparent that the greens were far more infested with these grubs than any other party. You now happily refer to us as Nazis even though the greens have more in common with the Nazis than any other party.

As for open borders, it has become clear that even Saint Jacinda is failing to control the delta version, and with Victoria now with nearly double the number of daily cases than NSW Dan now has now been completely exposed as incompetent.

Closing the borders is costing every Australian income and quality of life and since no one can beat the delta virus, vaccination is the only pathway to normality.

Shonky,

To bad, the whole outbreak of Delta virus is down to the incomperdent NSW government of Berejiklian, hundreds dead and thousands infected. Big Nose was too busy ripping off the taxpayers of the state with lover boy Daryl to worry about some virus. Typical LIBERAL PARTY CORRUPTION. Those state ICAC's are busy, in South Australia there is a conga line of CORRUPT LIBERALS lining up for the chop. Morrison doesn't want a Federal ICAC, not with 'Cry Baby' Porter and 'Bonking' Barney on the payroll!

Morrison will regain points if he stays away from Cop26, and demonstrates that Australia will not be bullied by thugs trying to link climate change to trade.

Pauliar,

Lying again I see. Considering that NSW processes more quarantined travellers than the rest of Aus together, their record is far far better than any other state. That the super contagious delta virus got through was only a matter of time.

The response to the outbreak is the measure of competence in which Dan Andrews comes a distant 2nd.

Canem..."I would keep the national borders closed"

So no thought for the million plus people whose livelihoods, careers, lifestyle, financial well-being, mental well-being and families, are inextricably linked to tourism (both internal and external) and foreign students? Those lives can be sacrificed on the altar of perfect safety?

"they are willing to sacrifice life and liberty for globalism"

How is the current policy setting protective of liberty? From where I stand liberty is being sacrificed in the vain search for protection from the unseen menace.

From an historic point of view, I find all this more than a little interesting. Over the decades we've luxuriated in the notion that we love liberty above all else - "give me liberty or give me death"; our forbears died to protect liberty etc. But now, populations, not just here, but in democracies the world over, are anxious to surrender liberty to any charlatan who promises safety. " Not with a bang but a whimper." The Hollow Man.

http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cec42d2d18cc23865a2b0deb8005073afc07c2643dee5ae26be40fe5046f78a6.jpg

Dear mhaze,

More emotive rot from you: "Those lives can be sacrificed on the altar of perfect safety?"

People are not dying from the lockdown. There would be an enormous loss of life if we had followed your open slather approach. These would have been actual lives taken.

SR,

There are plenty of people dying from an inability to get the medical treatment they need, additional suicides etc. This is in addition to the 1000s of people whose businesses and careers are in ruins.

Lockdown is a blunt instrument that causes nearly as much damage as it cures like chemotherapy. A similar approach to road safety would see the banning of all cars etc to prevent the roughly 1100 road deaths p.a.

Lockdown has to be lifted and the only debate is at what % of the population needs to be vaccinated. Shortly anyone will have had the opportunity to be vaccinated and the lockdown should be lifted.

SR no lives are being lost to the lock downs? Are you mad? I suggest you look at facts in future not navel gazing. Surgeries, cancer and mental health are ramping up and will get far worse.
You idiots thinking you can beat a life force with no eyes, ears, arms, brain or heart. It is just a piece of dna in a protein envelope. The virus just wants to infect, not kill, if it kills it dies too. I wont go into the complicated bits of this it would interfere with you too much.
As the Chinese boy Andrews is finding, easy to talk, difficult to do. He presides over greatest deaths, greatest infections and greatest cost. The virus is still getting through and these hopeless vaccines are neither stopping you getting it or passing it on. three jabs, four jabs and it still infects people. Only once though so we can easily get through this. Look at crowds in the US having fun, yes that is what really irks you wonderful people someone enjoying themselves. Children of Cromwell all of you stupid fearful and intolerant!

Shonky,

"their (NSW) record is far far better than any other state." Have you been swigging on the bottle of Donald Diso again. The Gladys virus has seen over 400 deaths, and thousands infected. It wont take long for the Gladys to kill as many as the ScumO' did in private aged care in Victoria last year. Both have cocked-up their pandemic responses, Morrison with quarantine and vaccine roll-out, and Berejiklian with her shambolic lockdown and health orders.

Are you still hiding out in NZ, with the protection of a Labour government? We are lucky here in Queensland with Annastacia Palaszczuk running the show, and not that air head, Miss Corruption from NSW.

Pauliar,

In NZ where nearly half the population is in lockdown, this Labour state is not doing much better than NSW or Victoria with the delta virus breaking out.

Victoria Labor has still killed the most people reaching nearly 900

NSW has quarantined more than 1/2 of all visitors shouldering the load for the rest of Aus and have easily squashed the contagion from bubonic Dan's cock up.

NSW is the gold standard and Victoria the turd standard.

mhaze said-

"Canem..."I would keep the national borders closed"

So no thought for the million plus people whose livelihoods, careers, lifestyle, financial well-being, mental well-being and families, are inextricably linked to tourism (both internal and external) and foreign students? Those lives can be sacrificed on the altar of perfect safety?"

Answer-

Interesting point.

How do I put this...

The tourism and education industries seem to be sources of community instability and over reliance seems unwise- their promotion seem to be linked to the Global Citizen philosophy enjoyed by global elites- though they do bring in a lot of "free" money. Free money is of course not free- there are always strings attached. Also it depends on where the tourism and students are coming from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citizenship

Global Industrialists want the free movement of people, capital, resources in line with Ricardo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citizenshipeconomics- because it's in their immediate interest- in practice politics contradicts this paradigm.

Short term free money, business and military coup's can position advantageously in the competitive landscape but I perhaps this isn't a solid foundation for national survival or world stability.

I can understand that those indoctrinated by business schools may not see things in such terms- indoctrination is everywhere.

I try to see the world as it was in the 1950's and the 1500's and other mileposts and try to work out what went wrong contemporarily- in these ages there wasn't the mass movement of people that we have today. With the advantages of technology I can't see the reason why we can't live well today based on social principles similar to the 1500's. The Rhode's scholarship brought only very few- the cream of the cream- of the world's intellectual talent to Britain- not the masses in Australia today.

Australia's prestigious educational institutions are for the benefit of the local's- the education industry is like selling the farm rather than the wheat.

Freedom vs responsibility.

mhaze- I'm interested to hear your views

I would have no problem with opening up the whole world on condition that we can chose our own preference in medication.

There can be no smoke with out some fire. Why do the elites want to force vaccination with experimental materials upon us? There has to be some reason they are trying to keep hidden the success of anti virals in other countries, & the low infection rates in areas where anti malarial prophylactic treatment is standard. It all looks like dirty money to me from here.

If I am allowed to tell them to stick their experimental jab, & given access to doctor prescribed anti virals, they can do what they like, but they will get nothing but civil disobedience from most folk I know if they persist with this forced vaccination rubbish. It has to be a rort.

Pauliar,

I see WA is in lockdown after a security guard who was last tested in January and who had insufficient PPE has tested positive for Covid. That he is suspected of being an uber driver makes it far worse.

So much for the Labor polished turd standards.

Unlike too many Australians, anyone entering, like elsewhere, will be vaccinated, as even negative tests will be no longer sufficient to enter many nations.

Meanwhile locally, constant deflection from the issue of insufficient vaccine procurement, logistics and delivery; backgrounded by media based denialism, scepticism and confusion round Covid and any public health measures which may impair business.

If Australia had vaccination rates comparable to many other nations this conversation would be irrelevant.

Shonky,

With NSW taking all those returning travellers, like that Liberal Party businessman from Indonesia, 9 trips in a year, then Covid. Do you think Gladys and Lover Boy Daryl might be getting a cut off the top? The ICAC should turn up something.

SR,

"People are not dying from the lockdown. "

Same old SR - take a sentence completely out of context, then utterly distort the meaning and finally pontificate on that distortion. When I talked about lives being sacrificed, I was referring to the lives I mentioned in that very same paragraph. But they aren't being sacrificed in the sense of dying. This isn't a binary breathing-not breathing thing. Lives are being destroyed by the lockdowns.

"your open slather approach"

I never called for an open slather approach. But I've said that so often that I'm sure you know that - just prefer to ignore it.
Same old SR.

Canem,

There's a fair bit to unpack here. So, let's start with some delimiters. I think there are three separate issues which you've conflated - tourism/foreign students, globalism and the globalist project.

Tourism and foreign students are an export source for Australia in the sense that's its a way for us to earn money to pay for the things we import. You seem to think that tourism takes something from us. But what? I can't imagine. A Chinese tourist watching the sunrise over Ayers Rock hasn't taken anything. It’s still there for any local to experience tomorrow of a century hence. Equally education. Foreign students aren't taking education facilities from locals. As we've seen, sans the foreigners, locals don't get their places. Those places just cease to exist. Indeed, it’s clear that universities etc are able to offer more local places using the profits derived from the foreigners.

Globalism - this isn't the same as the globalist project. Its aim is to expand global trade and global integration. While I know there are those who deny that trade enhances economic well-being, it seems clear that that is just wrong. All periods of advancing well-being have been associated with enhanced trade, be it the great civilisations of the 13th century BC, or the pax Romana or the global trade systems of the 18th and 19th century.

The globalist project (which seems to be your main concern) is indeed as you describe, an attempt by global elites to define away global boarders. They do want open transfers of peoples between nations (although nations would really not exist) and the free movement of monies and means of production. But this movement of peoples is, for the globalists, not the 2-week Contiki tour, but a more permanent or semi-permanent relocation of workers. Conflating a very temporary tourist with a relocated labourer isn't valid.
/cont

/cont

So, from my perspective - tourism is great and useful, globalism is to be encouraged and the globalist project is to be opposed at all points.

But what you seem to be suggesting is that its fine to jettison the tourism and foreign student industries in the fight to oppose the globalist. Even if they linked (they're not) quite why the workers in those industries are to be sacrificed in that fight is unclear and manifestly unfair.

So again...do you have any sympathy for the victims of lockdown?

"I try to see the world as it was in the 1950's and the 1500's and other mileposts and try to work out what went wrong contemporarily..."

Might I suggest that you consider working out what went RIGHT, contemporarily. No one who understands the period wants to live in the 1500's. As much as I admire Periclean Athens, life there compared to now would be abysmal. We live in a golden age (or did until very recently) and need to understand how and why we got here. It wasn't all down to globalism, but it was a large part of it. Opposing tourism or trade to fight the globalists is very much a baby-bath water situation.

mhaze,

Your replies to Canum Malum are -
absolutely brilliant! Well done!
Kudos!

Dear mhaze,

Rubbish.

Livelihood instead of lives would have been far more accurate, in fact you used the term earlier in the post. But you went with the emotive to make your point and I called it out. You just can't help yourself.

mhaze- Thanks for your reply. Kudos. I'm not sure that I agree with your thesis- I'm sure that you will prepare to defend your position- it's indeed great that I can compete with such a worthy opponent- perhaps you won't see things the same way. I'll try to get back to you soon. The devil is often in the detail. The conflict between Traditionalist and Industrialist thought is in some ways encapsulated in movies such as "Titanic" and "The Sound Of Music"- old verses new money- the holding of land verses holding of technology. Of course both are important but in what proportions. Sun Tzu says that directing an army is like directing a river into a canyon- it's not a precise, moderate, or proportionate act- in some ways the societal forces we are discussing are powerful and unpredictable forces of nature- at least Freud thought so- even though he could have been considered somewhat of an outsider. Anyway I'll try to get back to you soon. Take care.

Hi Steele,

Our resident "intellectual" has managed to link mhaze nonsense, sorry thesis, to the Sound of Music, Sun Tzu and Freud, he left out Aristotle!

Kudos Steele, in fact make that a DOUBLE KUDOS, one from Aristotle as well.

Famous Chinese philosopher Confusion said; Man who burn toast have lousy breakfast.

Foxy wrote: "Your replies to Canum Malum are -absolutely brilliant! Well done!"

Thanks Foxy, that means a lot. I mean it.







Canem wrote: "Anyway I'll try to get back to you soon."

I'll wait.






SR wrote: "Rubbish".

SR, if you seriously think that I was suggesting the lockdown was killing people then your comprehension skills are worse than I thought. Which actually explains a lot.






Paul, in his valiant efforts to raise the tenor of debate on the site writes: "mhaze nonsense, sorry thesis"

I can't wait to see Paul's careful analysis and explanation as to why he thinks what I wrote was nonsense.
Oh wait, we are talking about Paul, whose main contribution to the debate is to throw inane, moronic stink bombs and then scurry away like a naughty schoolboy, hiding behind his "I never explain" mantra. By which he means he never CAN explain.

Thanks mhaze. I’m sure my answers aren’t complete.

Comment 1-

Canem,

There's a fair bit to unpack here. So, let's start with some delimiters. I think there are three separate issues which you've conflated - tourism/foreign students, globalism and the globalist project.

Answer 1-

How do you separate global tourism/ international students from Globalism? Not saying it isn’t possible- in a sense- with respect I just don’t see how you’ve delineated it.

Comment 2-

Tourism and foreign students are an export source for Australia in the sense that's its a way for us to earn money to pay for the things we import. You seem to think that tourism takes something from us. But what? I can't imagine. A Chinese tourist watching the sunrise over Ayers Rock hasn't taken anything. It’s still there for any local to experience tomorrow of a century hence.

Answer 2- My main concern here is that Australia’s come to rely on this cyclical source of income where perhaps we could be using this resource on other types of productivity. Ayn Rand also says that you should only do business with those that have a similar philosophy.

Comment 3-

Equally education. Foreign students aren't taking education facilities from locals. As we've seen, sans the foreigners, locals don't get their places. Those places just cease to exist. Indeed, it’s clear that universities etc are able to offer more local places using the profits derived from the foreigners.

Answer 3-

Foreign students often don’t bring money into Australia they work in Australia to pay for the tuition- this distorts the employment market in certain sectors- for example low skilled work that local students compete for. There is supposed to be a twenty hour limit per weeks but this seems to be routinely bypassed by the cash economy- not that I’m against the cash economy- but foreign students exploit it. Often immigrant business owners are anecdotally the worst exploiters of this loophole- eg. someone was offered a dollar an hour. But the politicians and the bureaucracy turn a blind eye to it because it suits their agenda.

Comment 4-

While I know there are those who deny that trade enhances economic well-being, it seems clear that that is just wrong.

Answer 4-

I think it’s more complex than this- sometimes it enhances well being- sometimes it doesn’t- it depends on the trade and who it’s with. I suspect that trade improves well being more often than not. See Francisco D’Anconia’s (James Taggart Wedding) and Hank Reardon’s (A sale requires the consent of the seller) speech. An interesting counter example to trade improves well being is the example of Western trade with China- China uses trade profits to build weapons to destroy the West.

Comment 5-

The globalist project (which seems to be your main concern) is indeed as you describe, an attempt by global elites to define away global boarders. They do want open transfers of peoples between nations (although nations would really not exist) and the free movement of monies and means of production.

Answer 5-

Thanks.

Comment 6-

So, from my perspective - tourism is great and useful-

Answer 6-

If pushed I wouldn’t support broad tourism from non-friendly nations or cultures.

Comment 7-

- why the workers in those industries are to be sacrificed in that fight is unclear and manifestly unfair. So again...do you have any sympathy for the victims of lockdown?

Answer 7-

I have sympathy for the victims of lockdown- but also disappointment for those that caused it.

Comment 8-

"I try to see the world as it was in the 1950's and the 1500's and other mileposts and try to work out what went wrong contemporarily…". Might I suggest that you consider working out what went RIGHT, contemporarily. No one who understands the period wants to live in the 1500's. As much as I admire Periclean Athens, life there compared to now would be abysmal. We live in a golden age (or did until very recently)-

Answer 8-

Some things go right and some things go wrong in every era perhaps. I think I implied this in my original comment. The modern era has sacrificed community for technology.

My concern is in this so called enlightened age people feel less empowered and in a sense more enslaved than at other more ancient times- a gilded cage- better to die virtuous (free in an Aristotelian sense) than to live in a golden (c)age. It might be useful to reflect on the Hierarchy Of Needs- despite it’s faults.

Comment 9-

(We) need to understand how and why we got here.

Answer 9-

I agree.

Comment 10-

We live in a golden age (or did until very recently)- It wasn't all down to globalism, but it was a large part of it.

Answer 10-

This comment is like saying that the biggest profit comes down to the biggest market. This is sort of what David Ricardo said about free trade in Comparative Advantage of Nations. It can be a guide. The Art of War- best army has the best- leadership, law, chain of command, training, discipline- it’s not just about having the biggest army. Depends perhaps how one defines globalism and well being- is it research, exploration. I’m torn by the philosophy of Ayn Rand here. Some things can be defined in terms of Economics or Accounting. A lot of things in the community are not quantifiable economically at least not in the short term- perhaps it’s even more strong than that- the most important things in the community are not quantifiable in economic terms- at some point I suspect that it’s subjective/ existentialist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricardo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

Overall the current embodiment of globalism is characterised by naivety- the naive belief that with openness everything will be ok- globalism has always existed in a sense- to greater or lesser degree- depending on the place- it’s nothing new. It’s interesting that businesses promote openness in others but are closed themselves- sounds like a power play to me.

But at the same time trust can be promoted between mutual friends by reciprocal sharing.

Some have implied that global businesses are the nations of the future- they are more adaptable- they are dictatorial- they are efficient- etc.

In a sense many monarchies were in a sense similar to this- but the best nations understood that well being needs to filter down through the hierarchies in order for themselves to prosper- this can take many forms- at first glance perhaps malevolent.

Monarchies in ruling their own ethnicities had a perhaps closer empathy with their own people that those of other ethnicities due to more common traits- and were perhaps more emphathic- though there is always a gap between the ruled and the rulers- the powerless and the powerful. Also eg. project power hierarchy is necessary to achieve goals. Project leaders should try to delegate where feasible.

Technology has the potential to be more dictatorial than dictatorship ever was.

Trust is important between the army and the general- if they both face death together they will give their all- people also need an enemy at times to give them meaning- a good leader perhaps might be one in which helps people to understand that meaning can be internal.

Perhaps we should all be more tourists of our own communities rather than tourists of the world.

Canem Malum,
From my viewpoint this so-called enlightened age is in fact 90% a new dark age.

Thanks Individual for your comments.

"From my viewpoint this so-called enlightened age is in fact 90% a new dark age."

Answer- Yes this has become my view too. I've been researching Mass Psychosis and Group Think as well as Dostoevsky's comments in Demons/The Possessed- seemingly encapsulating our era- though narcisistic totalitarians of course will try to use DARVO to reverse the blame to avoid accountability.

Some of this research suggests that Pavlov's techniques are used by Totalitarians on The Masses. It seems to present James Burnham's Managerialism in a subtle new distinctiveness.

On a lighter note- Dandrews has seemingly become a figure of ridicule due to his maskless exploits- despite his claims of "maskless village witches". Hoisted with his own petard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoist_with_his_own_petard

I suspect that mhaze has an exemplary knowledge of Dostoevsky- I spent a week reading Solzhenitsyn when this came up in previous discussions- and remember mhaze's comments to be instructive.

Thanks again Individual for your comments. When all we have is our sardonism they'll still indict us as aggressors. It's important to keep a sense of sardonic humour in these times- it may be the only power we have- they'll still of course try to take it away- let them come for it.

mhaze- Thanks for challenging me on this issue- it always helps me to clarify my thoughts and position on things even if I find my position sometimes proven to be somewhat inconsistent. It enables me to pressure test my ideas. It indicates the complexity and subtlety in the argument and the pressure points in the community. I found the way you challenged me was great. Thanks again for sharing your greatness mhaze. Canem Malum.