Pfizer have announced trials of a "NEW" oral drug for the treatment of Covid 19. Named PF-07321332, it is of the same family as Ivemectin, & acting in the same way as Ivemectin is already nicknamed Pfivermectin. Apparently it is just enough different to Ivemectin to allow it to be patent able. That should allow it to sell for a few hundred, or perhaps thousands of times the price of Ivemectin. What a surprise.

I guess it will need to. There will be a lot of hands that will expect greasing, all those who helped stop the use of Ivemectin.

It will be used in conjunction with ritonavir, one of those used in the concoctions of antiviral drugs treating AIDS. Could these people have been reading my posts on the subject?

Being "new" it could have hidden dangers, hence the trials, but it's so close to the almost totally safe Ivemectin that is unlikely.

This whole chapter is so close to that suggested by the conspiracy theory folk, that they had it almost line perfect.

I wonder if the vaccines have a similar action to steroids, & will require the vaccinated to keep getting reducing doses for some time, before they can be consigned to the rubbish bin of history. Could we still find we need a vaccine passport even after their use is no longer necessary

Dear Hasbeen,

Do catch up mate. Anti-virals are standard treatment already in our hospitals and have been for a long while.

"Two drugs work well enough that they are now standard in COVID hospital wards, including in Australia: the antiviral remdesivir, formulated to fight Ebola and somewhat effective in stopping the coronavirus replicating in cells, and the inexpensive steroid dexamethasone, which dampens that dangerous immune system overreaction. Dexamethasone is the stand-out, shown to bring down the risk of death by a third for COVID patients on ventilators, and nearly a fifth for those on oxygen therapy (“There’s no silver bullet but we’re very confident that saves lives,” Tong says)."
http://www.smh.com.au/national/how-are-hospitals-treating-covid-20210712-p5890t.html

We can hope that the Pfizer drug can lift those stats but to claim it will be a viable alternative to vaccination is just idiocy.

To Hasbeen- My understanding on Ivemectin is that although it can kill Corona 'invivo' it can't 'invitro' at least on it's own. The reason for the issues with the clinical use of Ivemectin are apparently because the treatment of Corona would require amounts that would harm the patient. The broad spectrum Ivemectin is able to treat most other viral infections as they have different properties to Corona. Perhaps the pharma companies have come up with a successful combination of chemicals in the Corona case. I can understand Trump's view on Ivemectin- as the medical view is a moving and sometimes unreliable target- as I can understand the business community's frustration with Corona policy. I can also understand if the community in frustration has taken action without the medical establishment.

Let me know if you have a different take- or disagree with my take

It's the patent of course.

No one could make billions out of a cheap old out of patent drug. Ivemectin had to be stopped, so a new version could be patented to coin the loot.

The tax payer will pay through the nose, so the cunning could make fortunes, aided by the usual useful idiots of course.

Only the blind or those who don't want to see could think otherwise, as the evidence is mountainous.

To Hasbeen- You could be right regarding the patents- it certainly has happened before- for example with aspirin for heart disease. They've removed some old medicines from the approved list too such as mercurochrome- you can still get it in Australia but you need to ask at the counter as it's not on the shelves at the pharmacist.

It's hard to know what the truth is- if we can't trust the experts.

I'm not a doctor so given the standard disclosure to comply with the law- the following is not medical advise...

The techniques for viral testing are seemingly more complex than for bacteria.

I assume one could breed a viral culture in rats or similar and test the effectiveness at a per molar level of Invermectin and compare this with the known toxicity in humans- at least in a lab- from memory they were breeding Tamiflu vaccine in chicken eggs.

Or you could test it at a "safe" dose and see- there are a few ethical concerns here.

I don't understand the Corona virus enough though. It would be useful to know what mechanism is used in attacking other viruses and their envelopes.

I remember something about Invermectin functioning similar to cancer drugs that disrupt the cancers reproduction by "inculcation" and necrosis- but I could be completely wrong on this.

I've lost interest in the daily Corona news- but I suspect the information is out there to answer many of these questions for those that are interested.

Thanks Hasbeen for your information. Kudos

I have a few simple questions.
What is a vaccine? I thought it gave the body immunity from diseases. In my family I got Mumps and my younger Brother and Sister both got Measles so we three are obviously immune to both of them now.
The current jabs, first two, now four I am assured will not stop me getting or of passing on Covid. It is claimed though that I will get it less severely though.
So any of you experts care to enlighten me?

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as a threat, destroy it, and to further recognize and destroy any of the microorganisms associated with that agent that it may encounter in the future. Vaccines can be prophylactic (to prevent or ameliorate the effects of a future infection by a natural or "wild" pathogen), or therapeutic (to fight a disease that has already occurred, such as cancer). Some vaccines offer full sterilizing immunity, in which infection is prevented completely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system#Antigen_presentation_to_T_lymphocytes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps

Mumps is a "viral" disease caused by the mumps virus. Initial symptoms are non-specific and include fever, headache, malaise, muscle pain, and loss of appetite. These symptoms are usually followed by painful swelling of the parotid glands, called parotitis, which is the most common symptom of infection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles

Measles is a highly contagious infectious disease caused by measles "virus". Symptoms usually develop 10–12 days after exposure to an infected person and last 7–10 days. Initial symptoms typically include fever, often greater than 40 °C, cough, runny nose, and inflamed eyes.

In simpler language (could be inaccurate) vaccines educate the body about viruses (rather than bacteria) by exposing the immune system to the (RNA) virus code that fingerprints the virus (also see CRISPR Gene / DNA editing- TED Talk by Jennifer Doudna is good).

http://www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_doudna_how_crispr_lets_us_edit_our_dna

Viruses are usually constructed of a cellular envelope containing hostile RNA code that injects into it's target to reproduce.

An RNA chain is half a DNA chain (or ladder- the code are the rungs of the ladder- with the rails being Carbon chains) made up of the DNA alphabet ACGT (compare with the machine language alphabet of 01/ or the English alphabet of a-z)

DNA is essentially a duplicated (dual RNA) computer code that defines the cells of the body.

The immune systems of mammals are fairly similar as I understand- and is based on White Cells which kill bacteria and T-Cells that kill viruses. T-Cells include T-Helper Cells that detect the virus and trigger the immune system, T-Killer Cells that kill the virus, T-Suppressor Cells that turn down the immune system.

From looking at bacteria (procaryotic cells- no nucleus), human cells (eucaryotic cells- has a nucleus), viruses, etc you can start to understand how life might have developed over time.

Hopefully this is useful JBowyer.

Thank you Canem for the trouble you went through but what about "The current jabs, first two, now four I am assured will not stop me getting or of passing on Covid. It is claimed though that I will get it less severely though."
That was the real question that oppresses us daily and I am unaware of it ever even being asked but Martin Foley said after the jabs etc. That made me very surprised and still no questions?

I finally accessed that database today.
Found an article about Craig Kelly texting everyone, they're not happy.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-craig-kelly-has-been-allowed-to-send-you-texts-about-covid-19-vaccines/

As it turns out Craig Kellys giving out false information.
http://uap-media.com.au/tga-full-report-of-covid-vaccine-adverse-events-and-deaths/
The link to his site gives out the following info:

Number of reports (cases): 46438
Number of cases with a single suspected medicine: 45778
Number of cases where death was a reported outcome: 448

So I checked again myself and finally got access
- I noticed the Moderna Spikevax listing has been removed.
The data I got was this:

Number of reports (cases): 52318
Number of cases with a single suspected medicine: 51556
Number of cases where death was a reported outcome: 485

44 PAGES OF OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF ADVERSE REACTIONS
http://apps.tga.gov.au/PROD/DAEN/daen-report.aspx

I saw another page of medical conditions from the CDC on a video once as well, if I come across the list of conditions again I'll share it.

- And where can I get some Ivermectin, Hydrochloriquine, Prednisone, Anti-virals etc.
Surely I don't have to go to the doctor and pretend I've got lice and worms...

Vaccines are no guarantee of full immunity and some vaccinated people will inevitably still be affected. That's what the term "efficacy" means.

However even AZ is more effective than the typical annual Flu vaccine and 80% or something is better than 100% of nothing.

That's why masks and social distancing will need to be used until the pandemic eases.

The crazy use of Ivermectin may be a handy way of Nature flushing some people out of the gene pool.
I agree with this guy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJpJyPzTcv8

In answer to your questions JBowyer-

1. The Corona virus changes every four months or so through mutation- so the body can't recognize it- it also can change how poisonous it is- and how quickly it spreads. This relates to different strains such as the Delta and Lambda strains.

2. Apparently the vaccine will protect a vaccinated person for the four months from developing symptoms but they will still act as a carrier and a transmitter- I'm not sure of the mechanism here. Based on this a high percentage of vaccinated people probably keeps ICU cases lower and people actually dying- if the ICU gets overwhelmed then more people die- but the new strains moving across the world probably mean that the crisis will never end without much greater national border controls. The Lambda strain only hit Australia in July 2021 seemingly from South America- now we have the new Mu strain. In my view the state politicians can do more to seal the national borders but the conflict between the Labor State Government of Victoria and the Liberal Federal Government has undermined this. I blame the Labor Victorian Government. Of course the Federal Government often relies on state police for enforcement.

3. I'm not sure whether you will get Corona less severely with vaccination. There seems to be a balance between theory and statistics to quantify risks. Of course there are other secondary-order socio-political risks alongside the first-order Corona ones that can and are just as concerning. One day I saw the death figures- 12 people died, 1 was 30-40 years old, 1 was unknown, 10 were over 60, 8 were over 70, 3 were over 80- from memory.

With LRTI's pneumonia and death is a risk- older people have reduced lung capacity. Without a vaccine you treat the symptoms. Keep the patient warm, calm, bed rest, give oxygen, etc, etc.

I find the Spanish Flu of 1918 as a useful comparison.

The State of Vermont in USA is a standout for getting it population vaccinated and the benefits are abundantly clear.

Not only that but they have maintained a very good set of statistics which are being updated weekly. The latest can be found here:

http://dfr.vermont.gov/sites/finreg/files/doc_library/dfr-covid19-modeling-090821.pdf

Lower death rates, lower infection rates and lower hospitalisations.

Of course they are well above the vaccination rates we have in this country but they certainly show a pathway out of the Covid noose.

Then there is Israel SR.

Over 80% fully vaccinated, now many with a third dose.

They currently have the highest daily infection rate they've experienced since the start of the pandemic, currently higher than many hell holes.
Over 60% if those infected are fully, repeat FULLY vaccinated.

Wouldn't it be nice if these Bast**ds would give us some factual information, rather than propaganda pushing vaccination.

These new Ivemectin substitutes, Pfivermectin & now others have a per dose cost of over $2000, compared to $0.05 for the real unpatentable stuff.

Just how much smoke does it take for some to realise, there is fire producing that smoke.

Unfortunately our lot can't see the smoke, & are betting the farm on vaccination, which has failed in most places. Yet another bad choice piled on all the other dreadful choices we have had so far.

Dear Hasbeen,

Struth mate, even a blind Freddie would look at 80% vaccinated but msking up only 60 of infections and not say there is an appreciable preventative element.

"When US researchers dug into the Israeli data and broke it up according to age groups, they found the vaccine was more than 90 per cent effective at preventing severe disease in people under 50, and more than 85 per cent effective in those over 50.

"When interpreting data, you can't just look at raw numbers," Professor Lewin said.

"In Israel, when you look at the age-adjusted numbers for vaccination, the chance of you being hospitalised if you're over 60 is reduced 40-fold if you're vaccinated compared to if you're unvaccinated."

Yes Canem Malum, we used to apply Mercurochrome to coral cuts when tourists on our outer reef trips cut themselves. Applied with in a few minutes of the cut, it prevented any of the infection so prevalent with coral & oyster cuts. On days when walking on the coral flat was difficult, but just possible, it looked like we had a pack of Dalmatians on board, with all the spotted legs & arms.

Later we had to switch to, Gentian Violet when Mercurochrome was no longer available. I have both in the medicine cabinet, both sourced from the USA, but I will check the local chemist. They had 2 packs of Ivemectin when asked.

SR you tout Vermont and obfuscate Israel figures? Why is there just so much disagreement and protests of dishonesty?
I will tell you, because from day one we have been lied to but like all good lies there is a skein of truth the liars fight you over.
This is all a battle for integrity and they have lost it with me. You can try your usual snide remarks and insults but last time I looked I had the same vote as you and my vote is against the major parties and their lies.
Now summer is here the covid will subside and if we complain enough and vote out the political scum they will not bring it back, hopefully.

Dear JBowyer,

Rubbish.

The figures in Israel and Vermont are not in disagreement at all.

Name a single lie you have been told. On the whole the authorities have been very forthcoming and updated their advice and strategies as the pandemic has progressed. The only serial liar in this whole sorry affair was Trump but now he has gone.

Wake up.

Yes JBowyer and Hasbeen- we need to be careful what we believe as Ben Goldacre's talk below indicates which includes issues with Tamiflu. As he says in his talk The Cochrane Group tried to get the complete data for a number of years without success from the Pharma companies. The doctors appeared to have been misled in this case and governments around the world spent Trillions of dollars on Tamiflu stockpiles at the taxpayers expense. Be careful of doctors and psychologists using our emotions against us.

http://www.ted.com/talks/ben_goldacre_what_doctors_don_t_know_about_the_drugs_they_prescribe

Hi JBowyer,

"Now summer is here the covid will subside and if we complain enough and vote out the political scum they will not bring it back, hopefully."

I was hoping that too, but I read something about delta that made me think this unfortunately will not be the case.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-09-09/covid-19-israel-vaccination-high-case-rates-lessons-australia/100442304

- Scroll down to the paragraph 'Israel 'flung the doors open' just as Delta arrived'

"There were lots of big gatherings, religious meetings, and all sorts of events that happened in June, in the middle of summer.

At the same time, the highly contagious Delta variant arrived on Israel's shores, first emerging in school-aged children and quickly spreading to their parents.

Leading infectious diseases expert Sharon Lewin said without any measures to control the Delta variant, it was difficult to stop chains of transmission, even with reasonably high rates of vaccination."

- So don't count on summer saving us.

Now over here:

http://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

>>What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. “There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government. “One of the big stories from Israel [is]: ‘Vaccines work, but not well enough.’”<<