Foxy,

I've read Shirer (twice). It covers the issue at hand. I don't know how you could have read it and still think Hitler wasn't socialist.

I've read Speer. It doesn't cover the issue at hand so completely irrelevant as regards Hitler's socialism.

I've read Rosenbaum. I don't recall it discussing this issue. Perhaps you can tell me where it does so. I've still got it in my Kindle library so I can look it up after you point me in the right direction.

I read pretty much all of Conquests books. I don't recall him discussing this issue either. Again perhaps you could give a pointer where he does so.

You write: "Do try to do your research in the future..."

I've done my research. Indeed in this thread on this issue I'm the only one bringing forth facts, unlike those who just do a quick Google search trying to find someone who'll tell them what they want to hear.

"Otherwise I'll go back to not reading
your posts -"

Oh no! However will I cope?

As to the Encyclopedia Britannica, as compared to most (eg Wikipedia) it's pretty good. If I want to find out the mating habits of the red-throated warbler, that's where I'd go. But on issues of political controversy, it's always going to come down on the left side. Not as left leaning as Wikipedia, but in that direction

Good work mhaze- Kudos.

Well this is a rather confusing post to respond to.

Were the NAZIs originally socialist and did that inform a reasonable amount of their manifesto? Of course. But it is also clearly evident that much of the said manifesto or 25 points was primarily employed in furthering toxic nationalism and their hatred of Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

As such it is puerile to be attempting to make the case that the NAZIs were any kind of flag bearer for Socialism. Read the 25 points. What most utterly pervades the manifesto is the kind of deep corrosive nationalism we have recently seen employed by Trump.

Another example might be to claim they supported democracy due to point 6 which states: The right of voting on the state's government and legislation is to be enjoyed by the citizen of the state alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, shall be granted to citizens of the state alone.

But of course as soon as they got the chance they abolished elections.

The NAZIs were Jewish hating fascists through and through. The deprivations caused by brutal reparations sowed the seeds for their support within the Germany. Without it they would have likely remained some fringe party like One Nation. What they did was adroitly use the vehicles of socialism, nationalism and antisemitism to gain power.

Why fixate on one?

Good Work Steele, Kudos!

Yes SR I completely agree.

The Nazis were socialist but not solely socialist. They were nationalist but not solely nationalist. They were racist but not solely racist.

"The NAZIs were Jewish hating fascists through and through."

Well I wouldn't go that far, but they were fascists....and fascists were socialists. Heh, SR you're on a roll here.

"As such it is puerile to be attempting to make the case that the NAZIs were any kind of flag bearer for Socialism."

Completely agree....who said that?

Foxy,

wrote:"Good Work Steele, Kudos!"
Oh dear Canem Malum...looks like you got under her skin.

So Foxy, you were very happy to purport to have read widely and have special knowledge on the issue based on your research which you accused me of not having done. But once you were asked to be specific about your assertions (a claim without evidence) you suddenly disappear. Its what I expected but it's still interesting.

So Foxy, you claimed that Rosenbaum in "Explaining Hitler" and Conquest somewhere wrote about the issue at hand. Are you going to show me where? We both know the answer, don't we?

Dear mhaze,

You write: “Well I wouldn't go that far, but they were fascists....and fascists were socialists.”

Really? Here we go again. By what measure do you deem fascists as socialists?

“Fascism opposed class conflict and the egalitarian and international character of mainstream socialism, but sometimes sought to establish itself as an alternative "national socialism". It strongly opposed liberalism, communism, anarchism, and democratic socialism.”
Wikipedia

I think the last is the most telling.

This habit of yours of finding the smallest crack to launch yourself through is getting a little tiring. Were there some socialist elements to the dictators who lorded over fascist regimes? Of course, about as much as the KKK are a Christian organisation, which they are. Yet if I were to frame the Christian movement by the actions of the KKK you would be the first to call foul.

As to: “who said that?” I think you will find Graham did, or at least drove for it in his post.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you. I have in my extended family a German immigrant who lived in Berlin during the war as a child. He tells me that one of the popular things Hitler did was to cap the amount of profit a business could make either at wholesale or retail. Though obviously targeting Jews for a people struggling under reparations this was manna.

He listened to Hitler on the radio live and raised the similarities with Trump well before the last election and was a lot more concerned about him than I, this was despite his strong born-again Christian beliefs.