Shockadelic, the point of my last post was that it's all well and good to pick and choose bits and pieces that suit your view.

For instance, if we end your post at

"Of the deaths in 2004, USA: 18% were caused by firearms."

So, basically you're saying that in the US in 2004, almost one in five people died from firearm deaths.

It's all well and good to say plenty would have died anyway. As far as the 'suicides' go, perhaps it would be more difficult if they didn't have a gun. Often, suicides are a cry for help, though if you're using a gun, I dare say it's easier to be successful.

Then you say:

"10% of all deaths are homicides, but only 7% of all deaths are homicide by *firearm*. So 3% are homicide *without* firearms.
Without guns, people can still find many ways to bump you off!"

Yeah... but seven out of one hundred deaths were people being murdered with guns! Also a huge number!

Then:

"The police are always armed with guns, and are *deliberately looking* for criminals, yet they are responsible for only 2.6% of non-suicidal firearm deaths."

So more of the gun shootings aren't done by trained police?!
That's really not very comforting.

Ahh... I get it now. You must be secretly arguing for tighter gun control. Very clever.

Correction, I shouldn't have said 'almost one in five people died from firearms'

That should be, almost one in five deaths were from firearms.

Which, alone, really is argument enough.

TRTL,

Pity that you never had the opportunity to study logic.
Over 40 of the contiguous United States of America now have Concealed Carry laws which allow the law abiding to go armed if they wish to do so.
These States have had a drop in firearm related crime and other crimes of violence, since the above laws were introduced.

Now 40+ outa 50 ain't pickin' out little bits, that's taking a look at the big picture.

TurnRightThenLeft: "When you consider how many deaths there are from the US approach to gun ownership"
"I just don't want Australia to follow a path that has categorically resulted in increased deaths."
"They have a proportion of gun related deaths that is so far beyond these nations, it's sick."
"The US has a full blown case of gun disease"
"Massive gun death toll in the US"

How many deaths! Increased deaths! So far beyond! Full blown case! Massive gun death toll!
ARRRGGHHHH!!

I can't stand it anymore, I've got to get outta here!

I'll take care of this. Calm down, get a hold of yourself! (Slap!)

Seriously, 7% of deaths being homicide by firearm is not a "huge number".
No statistician would ever say 7% of anything was excessive.

You're also ignoring that *self-defence* is included in the "homicide" figures.
Some of these deaths are *defensive*, not aggressive.

You're also ignoring that 25% of Americans own guns.
So a 7% homicide rate (including self-defence) is hardly out of control.

"More of the gun shootings aren't done by trained police?!
That's really not very comforting."

Clever (not).
The point is that the death-by-police rate is so *astronomically low*!
Less than 1% of all deaths, and less than 3% of homicides (i.e. non-suicides).

And these are armed people *deliberately looking* for criminals!

Actually shockadelic, seven per cent of deaths being by gun homicide is a very, very big deal.

As for "seven per cent of anything is not excessive, not statistician would tell you that."

That's among the dodgiest mathematical claims I've ever heard.

I dunno where you learned maths, but in statistics it's all about context.
I think if you released a product and found that in only seven percent of cases it killed people, perhaps a few people may find it 'excessive.'
If it's a margin of error you're discussing, it comes down to numbers and again, the context.

Apply your logic.

Even seven per cent of deaths being homicide in general would be huge.

Factor in all the other ways to die.

Heart disease. Cancer. Car accidents, hell, any accidents.

If indeed, seven out of one hundred deaths are people not only being murdered, but murdered specifically by gun, that is indeed a very big deal.

Is Mise - actually, I have studied logic and critical reasoning. You're still looking at a select part of the puzzle. Go back a step to the part where the US has far more gun deaths per capita.
There's your logic.
You're still applying a band aid to a situation created by the gun problem in the first place. I stand by the flu analogy.

Hey you guys,
What the heck, there should not even be a percentage!
Get a grip...pulleaessse!