Holocaust Remembrance Day (or Yom HaShoah) falls this year on April 8.

One of the aims of the remembrance is to ensure the world doesn't forget and doesn't allow it to happen again.But it is happening again, and the world is essentially shrugging its shoulders at the unfolding genocide.

In western China there is a region called Xinjiang which is peopled by the Uighers, a Turkish peoples related to Kazaks and followers of Islam. The Chinese government has decided that this ethnic minority must be destroyed.

Vast camps have been established where around 3 million people are housed in the most appalling conditions. The main aim is to indoctrinate the ideology of the CCP into these people and destroy their culture. Murder, forced abortion and sterilisation is usual. Rape is almost routine.

Children are separated from their parents and their culture to be trained to love Chinese ways and the CCP leadership. Dark rumours of organ harvesting abound. Human hair from the inmates is a major export earner.

While all this is known and becoming more apparent, the world is averting its eyes. The Muslim world, who would declare jihad if any of this happened in a western country, have abandoned their religious brethren in favour of good relations with the CCP.

Western companies such as Nike, Apple and Google are profiting from the efforts of this slave labour force. Disney shot one of its hits in the region but assiduously avoided showing the camps and later thanked the regions administrators for their help.

While the Trump administration outed it as genocide, the Biden administration, filled as it is will Sinophiles and those making money from China (10% for the big guy), has downplayed the issue going so far as to excuse it because “culturally there are different norms”. It seems the 'norm' in China is genocide and that's a-OK with the big guy.

As the west and its values declines, these type of old world 'norms' using new world technology will expand. The Chinese century won't be pretty.

There's no disputing the enormity of Hitler's
Holocaust. But it is equally important to be as
aware of the accomplishments of the Soviet regime
which brought death to as least four times as
many Russians, Poles, Jews, Latvians, Lithuanians,
Estonians, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Gypsies, and
Romanians as Hitler did in his eleven years
as a leader of the '1,000-year Reich.'

While half of the criminals, the Nazis, have been pursued all
over the world for their crimes, the other half, the
communist criminals, were allowed to go free.

They were, in effect, given tacit permission to
continue the operation of their concentration camps, to
expand their draconian system to include psychiatric
wards, thereby raising torture, suppression and murder
to a science. The fact that the process persisted was
vividly disclosed to the free world by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

Yes, by all means lets remember the Holocaust. But also
as has been pointed out - the Yazidis, the Rohinghyas,
the Uyghurs and perhaps the plight
of the Palestinian people should also be considered.

At all times, vigilance is the price of liberty.
We must remain vigilant because while it might not be us
today, it will be some other group down the road.
The measure of our society over history is our fidelity to
our principles. We must remind our government and our
people to remain faithful to those principles or
otherwise our society, like so many in the past, will be
swept on the ash heap of history.

Well, the world has forgotten, and they will let it happen again and turn their backs - unless it happens to them. There is just as much anti-Semitism, mainly from the Left, as there ever was. Some observers say it is worse than ever.

As for Uighurs, that persecution has been going on for a long time - well before Australia and the rest of the West started trading with Communist Chinese, sucking up to them, and apologising for them because there was money in it for the usual few. And, what about Tibet? That has been going on long before our politicians buddied up with the Commos.

There is no point in dragging up events of nearly four decades ago when the same thing is being done now, and the 'free world is doing nothing about it because it might affect their economies.

If there's no point in "dragging up events"
that happened so long ago - how about -
letting go of Anzac Day, and Australia Day?
Why not throw in - Easter, Christmas, (and
many more we could scrap) . They all happened so
long ago.

Foxy,
Thje ANZACS helped fighting the Nazis, the other crowd caused the rise of the Nazis ! Big difference !

Individual,

You miss the point.

The response was to - why drag things up that
happened so long ago?

You've answered the question.

Foxy,

While I agree with much of what you said I find the attempt to draw a parallel between the Holocaust and the plight of the Palestinians to be contemptible.

The Palestinians have openly declared their intention to kill all the Jews and pay terrorists and their families bonuses for murdering Jewish civilians.

I believe that Hamas and the PLO are closer to the Nazis than the German Jews.

You miss the point.
Foxy,
No ! You just don't have an answer !

Shadowminister,

The reference to Palestinians was Israel's different
treatment of Jewish settlements to Palestinian
communities throughout the West Bank, including
East Jerusalem. The two tier system of laws, rules, and
services that Israel operates for the two populations
in areas in the West Bank under its exclusive control which
provide preferential services, development and benefits
for Jewish settlers while imposing harsh conditions on
Palestinians..

In any case Antony Lowenstein's a Jewish journalist and
writer has covered the conditions in Israel rather well.
Reading his book, "My Israel question," might help.

cont'd ...

Zionism plays a large part in this conflict.

Individual,

You've answered it yourself by bringing up why
ANZAC DAY should be remembered.

Case closed.

Speaking generally, for years we've seen
survivors raise awareness of the atrocities
they've endured, fighting for justice on
behalf of their communities. In order to do so
they've had to re-live the pain and suffering
inflicted on them and relive the ignorance of
the international communities that allowed these
atrocities to happen.

It's been pointed out that in the past years we've
witnessed several instances of mass atrocities meeting
the legal definition of genocide including by Daesh
against the Yazidis, by Myanmar military against
the Rohingyas, by Boko Haram and Fulani militia in
Nigeria and the Chinese communist party against the
Uyghurs.

So as we can see - it is worth remembering what happened
in the past - for the simple reason that it is still
happening today.

There is no such thing as Palestine; it does not exist. Palestine is a construct to appease a bunch of stateless thugs and terrorists. The ALP's threat to recognise a non-existent state speaks volumes about about modern Labor's idiocy.

The barbaric and bigoted ABC program Q&A has, despite a new presenter and new time spot, driven away all but 228,000 viewers according to the ABC's equally twisted left propaganda machine The Guardian.

Foxy,

"The reference to Palestinians was to Israel's different treatment of Jewish settlements to Palestinian communities throughout the West Bank, including East Jerusalem."

Different treatment? Wow! that's a sure sign of genocide. That's as lame as you can get. It might have something to do with Hamas trying to kill as many Jews as possible.

Shadowminster,

How many Palestians have been killed?
You obviously don't value their lives.

There are obviously all sorts of disasters for various peoples around the world, some self-inflicted (the so-called Palestinians) some the result of historic anomalies (the Rohingya people).

But what is happening on the western borders of China is orders of magnitude worse. The numbers involved are enormous. The Uighurs number some 13 million and at any one time, 3 million of them might be in concentration camps. Rape, forced sterilisation and forced abortion are routine, the aim being to suppress the numbers. (I'd have though, given all the virtual signalling over rape over the past month, this would matter to the woke in this group).

But this is a deliberate government policy to wipe out a peoples. Yes, ISIS had a policy to wipe out the Yazidi, but they weren't a government and we went to war to stop them.

The Chinese government is using all the technical and military tools it has to destroy a segment of their population they consider to be problematic. It won't stop there and we need to be aware that the regime that will likely control world affairs for most of this century sees this genocide as justified.

And their supporters in the west will accede to that justification. There are any number of companies in the west who have profited from the misery of the Uighurs. Consumers likewise revel in products made by slave labour. Wearing Nike shoes should be considered as shameful as wearing a swastika t-shirt. But it won't be. How's that i-pad going? Are you concerned that some of its parts were made by slave labour?

We can't stop this new Holocaust short of war which means we can't stop it. But we, the west, can make it painful for the CCP. But with Sinophiles now controlling the US, that's unlikely as well.

Foxy

How many Jews have been killed by Palestinians? obviously, you don't care about their lives.

Shadowminister,

Here's something from Human Rights Watch:

"The Israel government continues to enforce severe
and discriminatory restrictions on Palestinians'
human rights; restrict the movement of people and
goods into and out of the Gaze strip; and facilitate
the transfer of Israeli citizens to settlements in the
occupied West Bank, an illegal practice under international
law."

"Israel's 12-year closure of Gaza, exacerbated by Egyptian restrictions on its border with Gaza, limits access to
educational, economic and other opportunities, medical
care, clean water, and electricity for the nearly
2 million Palestinians who live there. 80% of Gaza's population depend on humanitarian aid."

" Israeli forces stationed on the Israel side of fences
separating Gaza and Israel continue to fire live ammunition
at demonstrators inside Gaza who pose no imminent threat
to life, pursuant to open fire from senior officials that
contreve international human rights standards."

There's much more at:

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/israel/palestine#

cont'd ...

I've read an interesting article in Haaretz that explains
the words people use to describe conflicts determine the
way they think about them. Using terms like "so called
Palestinians" and the problems being "self inflicted".

According to Haaretz:

"If the conflict is seen as being between Israelis and
Palestinians, a two state solution seems reasonable."

"But if its an Arab-Jewish struggle it seems reasonable
that Arabs get to keep their giant realm stretching
22 countries from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean and that
the entire land of Israel - a speck of dust in comparison
remains in Jewish hands."

" An Israeli - Palestinian conflict
could be seen as lasting 100 years,
at the most, which means it is quiet reasonable
to see it ending soon."

"But a conflict between Arabs and Jews could be seen - and is
seen by many - as lasting from biblical times, from the
conflict between Jacob and Esau, through the time of
Muhammed to our very day. There is no reason to believe
that a conflict spanning millennia should end anytime soon."

" Israelis see things from the Jewish-Arab lens - not Israeli
Palestinian lens."

It won't be ending any time soon.

Dear Foxy,

"On this day 73 years ago, Zionist gangs entered the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin in Jerusalem , killing between 107 and 254 villagers, mainly women, children, and the elderly - There were documented cases of rape, mutilation, and humiliation; the victims being mainly Palestinian women."
http://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/mni2me/on_this_day_73_years_ago_zionist_gangs_entered/

Why oh why does anyone bring up the Holocaust when they know full well it's an open invitation for the resident Leftist anti-Semites to spew their hateful bile, and drag up everything the Israelis have done to protect their country and themselves as if self-defence was a crime.

Given what has been done to the Jews by extremists, and Arab and Palestinian terrorists, unremittingly over a very long time, Israel has shown admirable restraint.

Foxy,

The UNHCR has for some time been headed and run by representatives from authoritarian countries with appalling human rights records and has been deeply anti-Semitic. That the border between Gaza and Israel has been closed is due to Hamas smuggling terrorists into Israel to kill civilians which have occurred in several well-documented cases.

The border between Israel and Gaza was formed in 1948 and is internationally recognised.

SR,

Your antisemitism is well established. Posting a link to a Palestinian propaganda web page that is flagged as antisemitic is just another example. That it is factually wildly incorrect doesn't help your cause either.

Shdowminister,

Oh Dear!

ttbn,

Once again - you come out with the "Leftist crap!"
It's wearing a bit thin.

At last. One of the anti-Semites - also a racist if you accept that Jews are a race - recognises that leftism is "crap".

You obviously don't value their lives.
Foxy,
Do the Palestinians value others' lives ?

ttbn,

Antisemitism is wrong.

It isn't wrong because it
is wrong to denigrate and dehumanise Jews.

Antisemitism is wrong because it is wrong to denigrate
and dehumanise anyone.

Which means, ultimately that
any effort to fight antisemitism that contributes to
the denigration and dehumanisation of Palestinians i
s no fight against antisemitism at all.

As for your constant references to "Left" and "Right"
as Aidan pointed out - shows a very limited line of
thought. Surely you can do better than that to make
a point. Unless of course you have a limited
vocabulary and mindset. I look forward to an improvement
in your postings.

"Why oh why does anyone bring up the Holocaust when they know full well it's an open invitation for the resident Leftist anti-Semites to spew their hateful bile,"

Well I only mentioned the Holocaust to indicate that part of the commemoration is to try to ensure that it never happens again. Yet it is happening again and the world is averting its eyes. That many here are doing so also is just a microcosm of that larger issue.

Of course people also want to divert the discussion from the Chinese because they can't bring themselves to criticise a regime that they basically admire.

__________________________________________________________________

Re Deir Yassin...basically everything that SR wrote was rubbish as a cursory understanding of the history would reveal. Going through it point by point would be tedious and futile because the SR's of the world believe what they want irrespective of the facts.

But as an example he wrote... "There were documented cases of rape". In fact, there weren't. An employee of the Palestinian Broadcasting Service admitted that the rape stories had been fabricated by Arab leader Hussein Khalidi who, having been told by a resident that there was no rape replied "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews".

So much of what passes as fact concerning the Israel-Arab wars is propaganda.

Regarding the massacre of Deir Yassin.
The Jewish newspaper "Haaretz" published
the following article:

Propaganda?

It depends whether your claim is
to erase the Palestinian experience.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/MAGAZINE-testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin-1.5494094

Would it be irksome of me to point out that the word 'rape' isn't used even once in Foxy's propaganda piece?

Rape is of course mentioned quite often in regards to the Uighurs, but, it seems, most would prefer to not know that.

Foxy,

So, stop being anti-Semitic and racist. Prove that you think that it is wrong.

As for your objection to my criticism of Leftism, it is only natural that a Leftist like you would be paranoid about it.

There is no problem in the West that cannot be laid at the feet of Leftism. I will be critical of the Left as long as I live, and at every opportunity.

In this country we have a leader of a once right of centre party who takes literally the name of that party. He is a liberal, whom you often speak well off, which in itself shows how bad he is.

ttbn,

Here we go again.

You're confusing criticism of Israel's policies with
criticism of Jews and calling it "antisemitic and
racist."

That's wrong.

Jews have a wide range of opinions and many Jews around
many are also
critical of Israel's policies. Many aren't even aware
of what's going on in Israel.

Catholics shouldn't be attacked for the positions of
the Vatican. Muslims shouldn't be held responsible
for terrorism. And so on.

Think before you post.

cont'd...

I also will continue to be critical of anything that
I feel is wrong. The difference between us though
is that I don't turn my attention only to "Leftism."
Wrong is wrong no matter which side of politics it
comes from. My family lost their country, friends,
positions, family members, to what was wrong.
And they also paid a high price for it all.
So kindly don't finer-point to something you know
nothing about. It's ignorant and does not become
you. You need to stop doing it because it may
disagree with your viewpoint.

cont'd ...

BTW : I'm not paranoid about "Leftism."

I am concerned about your mindset - which
indicates a rather small-minded, troubled
soul. I feel obliged to try to help.

Foxy,

Surely you could have fitted all that garbage into a a single post. Don't you have word count on the ancient machine that prevents you from typing right across the page.

I haven't read any of it. Please refer to my response in the ABC thread - or not, depending on your state of mind at the moment.

ttbn,

Don't worry about my style of posting.
Worry more about why you're worried
about the way I post.

Well, at least you've found a hobby.

Shadowminister,

My anti-semiticism well established? Bulldust. It is just one of the refuges you go to whenever you find yourself completely exposed as an utter liar and embellisher. As I'm the one who pulls your pants down the most often I cop the slur more than some but you have bandied it around with your usual gay abandon to others on this forum. It is venal, pathetic and oh so typical of you.

My link was to reddit you tosser. It was actually created by a Jewish person.

Dear mhaze,

You used the Holocaust to segue into the Uygers. Foxy used it to do the same with the Palestinians. I replied to her with a quote, not my own words, which you have taken exception to as you typically do.

From Haaretz

Quote

Another harsh account was provided by Prof. Mordechai Gichon, a lieutenant colonel in the Israel Defense Forces reserves, who was a Haganah intelligence officer sent to Deir Yassin when the battle ended. “To me it looked a bit like a pogrom,” said Gichon, who died about a year ago. “If you’re occupying an army position – it’s not a pogrom, even if a hundred people are killed. But if you are coming into a civilian locale and dead people are scattered around in it – then it looks like a pogrom. When the Cossacks burst into Jewish neighborhoods, then that should have looked something like this.”

According to Gichon, “There was a feeling of considerable slaughter and it was hard for me to explain it to myself as having been done in self-defense. My impression was more of a massacre than anything else. If it is a matter of killing innocent civilians, then it can be called a massacre.”

Cont.

Cont.

Yair Tsaban, a former Meretz MK and government minister, related in his interview with Shoshani that after the massacre, in which he did not participate, he was sent with fellow members of the Youth Brigades to bury the corpses of the dead. “The rationale was that the Red Cross was liable to show up at any moment and it was necessary to blur the traces [of the killings] because publication of pictures and testimonies about what had happened in the village would be very damaging to the image of our War of Independence,” he said.

“I saw a fair number of corpses,” he added. “I don’t remember encountering the corpse of a fighting man. Not at all. I remember mostly women and old men.” Tsaban testified that he saw inhabitants shot in the back and dismissed the claims of some of participants in the action that the locals had been hit in exchanges of fire. “An old man and a woman, sitting in the corner of a room with their faces to the wall, and they are shot in the back,” he recalled. “That cannot have been in the heat of battle. No way.”

End quote

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/MAGAZINE-testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin-1.5494094

Why do you feel the need to downplay this massacre?

Dear Steele,

mhaze called my link from Haaretz "a propaganda piece."
He refers to the "so called Palestinian," and says that
their suffering is "self-inflicted."

And he tells me that I am wrong?

Being wrong is acceptable, but staying wrong is
totally unacceptable

SR

"I replied to her with a quote, not my own words, which you have taken exception to as you typically do."

Oh, you're using that defence again. Oh I was just approvingly quoting someone...its not my fault they were lying.

Your quote claimed that "[t]here were documented cases of rape, ".
I pointed out that the claim was made up and indeed there were no documented cases of rape. That was just an example of how the entire claim was rubbish. But despite all the twisting and turning from Foxy and SR, neither have found any documented cases of rape - and you can bet they both tried hard to do so.

"Why do you feel the need to downplay this massacre?"

It wasn't a massacre. It was a battle in a war where the very existence of the Jews in the Israel was threatened. The village was targeted because the Jews were trying to open up supply routes through to Jerusalem where several thousand Jews were being starved into surrender. It was war. The Jews warned the villagers to leave and many did. Those that remained resisted the occupation of the village and fought back.Women were targeted because they were re-supplying fighters or because some of the fighters were disguising themselves as women.

Did I mention it was war?

Foxy wrote: "mhaze called my link from Haaretz "a propaganda piece."

Well no, you wondered if it was propaganda and I concurred.

Foxy wrote:"He refers to the "so called Palestinian,"

That's because its a made up term or descriptor. Until it became politically expedient, there was no such thing as a Palestinian. The people who now want to be called Palestinian, prior to 1940 or so, thought of and called themselves Arab Syrians or just Arabs. If you read text or history of the region written before 1940 you struggle to find the term Palestinian used at all.

Foxy wrote: "[Mhaze thinks] their suffering is "self-inflicted."

That's because it is. Over the past 70 years, the so-called Palestinian leadership have regularly rejected efforts and offers for peace which would have ended the people's suffering. People like Arafat grew fabulously wealthy while refusing to allow his people to gain peace.

Foxy wrote: "And he tells me that I am wrong?"

Not true. I haven't used the word 'wrong' in this thread. I did however, in a different thread, say you were "wrong. Just plain wrong.". But that's only because you were...ahem....wrong.

So a a lieutenant colonel in the Israel Defense Forces reserves, who was a Haganah intelligence officer sent to Deir Yassin when the battle ended calls it a massacre but our dear little mhaze running rightwing tropes from his safe little keyboard says it wasn't.

Guess which one I'm choosing to believe.

And more rubbish from him. “The people who now want to be called Palestinian, prior to 1940 or so, thought of and called themselves Arab Syrians or just Arabs. “

http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/b6spsi/palestinian_passport_1935/

mhaze,

Methinks you protest too much.

Check your posts on page 5!

" So much of what passes as fact covering the
Israel-Arab war is propaganda."

( I then questioned that - Propaganda?_

And then you referred to my Haaretz artcle as
"Foxy's propaganda piece."

Are you pants on fire?

They should be!

SR,

You are the liar and embellisher and I have caught you out just recently. You unprincipled antisemitic twat.

Secondly, the Reddit page to which you linked not only was flagged as antisemitic, was openly tied to Palestinian causes and to top it was factually incorrect as to claim that it was that incident that motivated the Arabs to attack Israel. If you are going to post antisemitic propaganda, at least try to post something that is not so blatantly manipulated.

I'm not arguing that it wasn't a war crime. That it occurred after a series of massacres of Jews by Arabs is the detail that you deliberately omit which highlights your antisemitism.

When you finally admit that the Palestinians are significantly responsible for what is happening to them then your posts may take on a semblance of rationality.

SR writes: "Guess which one I'm choosing to believe."

SR believes whoever tells him what he wants to hear. Its the way he always operates - reach the conclusion and the search for (and believe) anything that supports the conclusion.

Part of the problem is that SR doesn't really look into the history of an issue - just his immediate concerns. Its as though he looks at WW2 from 1944 and concludes its was all about Germany being attacked by avarice neighbours. Then he finds a Goebbels speech to support his claim.

There are any number of sources which explain the so-called massacre as being just part of the war eg... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-capture-of-deir-yassin#15

"My unit stormed and passed the first row of houses. I was among the first to enter the village. There were a few other guys with me, each encouraging the other to advance. At the top of the street I saw a man in khaki clothing running ahead. I thought he was one of ours. I ran after him and told him, "advance to that house." Suddenly he turned around, aimed his rifle and shot. He was an Iraqi soldier. I was hit in the foot."

NB: this is one example of a vast literature on the issue.

SR's lack of background understanding is also shown on the Palestinian Passport he thought proved that the people thought of themselves as Palestinian.
The people who lived in that region were effectively stateless following the fall of the Ottoman empire. The passport was issued to the people in the region - Arabs, Jews, Egyptians, Syrians, ex-pat Europeans, Turkish holdovers. Note:it was a British passport. Think of it like this...there was also a British Hong Kong passport but the people didn't think of themselves as Hong Kongians.

To understand the whole issue you really need to go back to around 1870 when the Ottomans started encouraging Jewsih immigration, having noticed that the Jewish settlers were much more productive than the then residents. But for SR that's a bridge too far.

Foxy writes: "Are you[r] pants on fire?"

What's this? Are we back in 3rd grade?

Foxy, you linked to a article and then immediate after asked "Propaganda?" I took that to mean you recognised that it might be embellished. I was surprised and impressed at your unusual display of insight.

Seems I was mistaken and over-estimated your understanding of nuance.

________________________________________________________________

Meanwhile, in the real world there is currently a furore over people doctoring the photos of victims of the Cambodian killing fields. Since the perpetrators of that holocaust were communists, it tends to get ignored and suppressed.

Just as we see here with people like Foxy and SR, they are very anxious to talk about the Israel conflict as though it is a holocaust but also very anxious to ignore actual genocide perpetrated by those regimes they actually admire eg Xinjiang.

mhaze,

Shame on you!

Shadowminister,

Mate don't flatter yourself, you have never once caught me out.

You claim the sub-reddit page has been flagged as anti-semitic. By whom? You? Rubbish.

Your main criticism is that it is tied to Palestinian causes. Were you being thicker than usual when you wrote that? Of course it would be.

I also subscribe to the Judaism subreddit and it is certainly tied to Israeli causes. What of it?

How is the invasion and colonisation of millions of European Jews spouting a 2,000 year old claim to their land the Palestinian's fault?

Grow up.

Dear mhaze,

Did you really just post a link to the Jewish Virtual Library page? Is this your unbiased source? The Haareta link Foxy and I posted is to a Jewish newspaper and it discusses the documentary made of the massacre but a Jewish director. She was able to retrieve documents and gather eyewitness account which make your link laughable. There you will find accounts of looting, of summary executions, of tying a young man to a tree and setting him alight and piles of bodies being burnt to hid the evidence. Smacks of war crimes to me but because they are Israeli they get a free pass from one of the more unprincipled people on this forum.

But at least you are now providing some sort of links rather than directly contradicting a lieutenant if the Israeli forces with your vacuous personal opinion. We are progressing it seems.

Finally this gem from you:

“Think of it like this...there was also a British Hong Kong passport but the people didn't think of themselves as Hong Kongians.”

Lol. Perhaps you need to talk to a few.

Shame on you!
Foxy,
Wow, that seems a genuine reply, not one of the usual cut & paste jobs !

SR wrote: "Lol. Perhaps you need to talk to a few. [ holders of the British HK passport]."

Over the past 257 years I've had four roughly six-month stints in HK. I think I've spoken to a few more than SR could poke a stick at.
But SR wasn't serious or factual on this...it was just his way of trying to divert attention from the fact that his original claims about the Palestinian Passport were shown to be ignorant balderdash. Standard SR there.

As to the rest, SR's found one quote he likes and he's sticking to it for all its worth. Someone who wasn't there tells him what he wants to hear and that's it. I quote from someone who was there and SR pretends not to see it. I show actual history and SR pretends not to see it. I point to ways to understand the history and SR pretends not to see it. Nup he's got his one quote and that's all the history he's interested in.

Of course he also had another quote he hung his hat on but when I pointed out and proved it was factually wrong claiming there were documented cases of rape, well guess what...SR pretended not to see it. Not only that he's pretending to not even see his original quote.

Struth what a dill.

"Wow, that seems a genuine reply, not one of the usual cut & paste jobs!"

Shame on you is Foxy's quirky way of saying she concedes the point.

SR,

I caught you out lying just recently.

You moronically tried to sneer when I pointed out that it was from a Palestinian site but failed to address the fact that it was a factually incorrect piece of propaganda. That it was flagged as antisemitic is something I found and you can too if you try.

That you quoted antisemitic lies from an antisemitic Reddit thread is perfectly in character with your deeply antisemitic ideology. That you have justified the atrocities committed by the Arabs / Palestinians is detestable.

Dear mhaze,

You simper away with:

“it was just his way of trying to divert attention from the fact that his original claims about the Palestinian Passport were shown to be ignorant balderdash”

No they weren't at all you little cherub.

Your claim that the concept only surfaced after 1940 is utterly wrong.

“The Palestinian Citizenship Order 1925 was a law of Mandatory Palestine that created a Palestinian citizenship for residents of the territory of Palestine Mandate. It was announced on 24 July 1925 and came into force on 1 August 1925.”

Prior to 1925 Palestinians were given Laissez Passer documents issued by the PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine_passport#/media/File:1924_Palestine_travel_document.jpg

So for over 25 years there were official Palestinian nationals who enjoyed Palestinian citizenship.

Before 1950 the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestine Post. Before 1960 the Israeli Electric Company was called the Palestine Electric Company. Of course people thought of themselves as Palestinians. You are the one trying to strip that history from the books.

Shadowminister stutters:”I caught you out lying just recently.”

No you didn't my little fellow so why claim it. You still haven't furnish any evidence that the subreddit has been flagged as antisemitic at all. Put up or shut up I think is the appropriate vernacular.

SR,

I absolutely caught you lying. You claimed more than once that I call on the organisers of an art show to cancel dark mofo. You lied.

Secondly, I don't see you disputing that the link you provided was a) antisemitic, or b)factually grossly incorrect.

We are now at the point where SR realises he's screwed up and starts playing semantic games to try to convince himself he's not completely wrong.

Yes, SR, there were people who were designated as Palestinians because they from a region the British called Palestine. But they weren't an ethnic group. Jews were Palestinians, Egyptians were Palestinians, Syrians, Turk ex-pat Europeans, Iranians, Yazidi.

There are people from a region called Queensland who call themselves Queenslanders, but that doesn't mean there is an ethnic Queenslander group.

But the so-called Palestinians, during the 1940s started to try to claim that they were an ancient peoples, distinct from Syrians and other Arabs. And it just ain't so.

Can't help but notice that SR continues to pretend to not see a whole bunch of facts that he'd prefer not to known about. "Documented cases of rape". SR believed that until he didn't and now pretends he never heard such a thing.

There were over 120 terrorist bombings and attacks in Israel, in a time when Israel was
quite relaxed about Palestinians coming into Israel to use the hospitals, work and shop.

The last straw was the bombing of a busload of Israelie children killing them all.

Israel then built the wall between Israel and Palestine and put guards requiring ID’s of people coming in on the border.
The punishments became harsher to deter these attacks. With the families of Palestinians living in Palestine being expelled
from Israel if a member of their family committed a terrorist attack inside Israel.

Meanwhile missile attacks continued regularly into Israel.
Until Israel had finally had enough and retaliated with a full scale attack, killing 1,0000 Palestinians before being called
off by the United Nations.

The full scale retaliation by Israel, seemed to put an end to the years of missile attacks into Israel, for the moment.

The fight is really a tribal bloodline fight, over the land.
The two populations continue to grow on both sides.
I believe I read somewhere Pr Trump paid the Palestinians a lot of aid money to help them with their poverty
and the financial hardship in Palestine.

For the moment it seems as though it may have eased the tension, but for how long?

Today is celebrated as Israel's foundation day. This is according to the Hebrew calendar although by our calendar it happened on 14 May 1948.

This is a nice article about the role Truman played in that event.
http://lidblog.com/israel-independence/

________________________________________________________________

Meanwhile on the main point that the resident Sinophiles want to ignore...

"The think tank invited “dozens of experts in international law, genocide studies, Chinese ethnic policies, and the region” to examine “all available evidence that could be collected and verified from public Chinese State communications, leaked Chinese State communications, eye-witness testimony, and open-source research methods.”

The report concluded that the People’s Republic of China bears responsibility “for committing genocide against the Uyghurs in breach of the 1948 Convention.” Pointing to the Chinese Communist Party’s deliberate actions in killing members of the group, inflicting serious bodily harm, and preventing births, the report concluded that China has the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part” the Uyghur ethnic group under the framework of the Geneva Convention."

http://www.campusreform.org/article?id=17200

As long as the decades of occupation of East Jerusalem,
the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights is justified,
and the Zionist massacres are denied, and the daily
harrassment and humiliation of Palestinians
continues with the razing of homes, the arrests, the
interrogations and torture, the conflict will also continue.

"Never again to anyone" or "Never again to us?"

Is something that requires a great deal of soul searching.

Antony Loewenstein was awarded the Jerusalem Al-Quds
Peace prize in 2019.

Palestinians are calling for equality and justice.
Theirs is a collective human struggle similar to
what happened in challenging apartheid in South
Africa.

Israel has violated over 60 UN Security Council
Resolutions and over 200 UN General Assembly Resolutions.
Without the US using its veto powers to shield Israel
from international law at the United Nations Security
Council, the number would have doubled.

We should remember in tears and revolt all holocausts, past and present, including the present Uighur holocaust.

Please allow me to settle some facts about Deir Yassin, as I personally heard from people who were there:

Mhaze is perfectly correct: Deir Yassin could better be described as a Western Arab suburb of Jerusalem, on a hill that overlooked the only road in/out Western Jerusalem. The locals there shot the traffic below, effectively blockading the city and starving its population.

The battle to take over Deir Yassin was conducted by the "Irgun". Only fighters were killed, only houses from which the troops were fired on were blown up and the possibility of rapes is laughable: understanding the mentality at the time, no Jewish/Israeli man could possibly have the slightest sexual attraction toward Arab women any more than they would toward a camel with lice.

Nevertheless, the Irgun played that tactic card brilliantly and planted agents among the fleeing Arabs who encouraged them to spread horrific rumours about what supposedly happened there, including "rape". As a result of these false rumours, 100,000's of local Arabs across Israel panicked and fled their homes to end up as refugees. Had they remained, Israel might have lost the war, never came to exist and had its population massacred, likely raped too beforehand.

This is from a Jewish newspaper and also from people who
were there:

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/MAGAZINE-testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin-1.5494094

Dear mhaze,

You seem intent on shooting yourself in the foot. If Queensland were to cede from the rest of Australia and become an independent country they would likely still proudly see themselves as Queenslanders.

Sicilians are Italian but it does not take independence from Italy before that becomes a legitimate identification. Palestinians were given that delineation from the rest of the region in 1925 with the national laws that were enacted.

Prior to that the name of Palestine has a history going back over 2,000 years.

The Histories of Herodotus in the 5th century BCE used the term. What we now know as the Dead Sea was called the Lake of Palestine by Aristotle.

The inhabitants of the land of Palestine embraced many religions and to dismiss their identification as Palestinians because they are not a coherent ethnic group is bewildering coming from a so called Australian.

Dear Yuyutsu,

I am prepared to consider your perspective about the claims of rape but the rest runs completely counter to the evidence and the testimonies procured by the documentary maker from the Haaretz story. I have little doubt your version is also dramatically influenced by one of the world's most effective State propaganda machinery in existence.

Dear Cherful,

What a completely biased and one eyed perspective. What of the multitude and extent of terror attacks from Israel against the Palestinian people? These are an occupied people resisting that occupation with the quite rudimentary means available to them. Do you give that struggle any legitimacy at all?

Dear Foxy and SteeleRedux,

What you say demonstrates that the operation in Deir Yassin was successful:

The operation had two objectives:
1. To open the road to Jerusalem.
2. To empty the country of its Arab population.

However, one objective they obviously did not have, was to look good in the eyes of the world and future generations.

Insofar as it was necessary to achieve the first objective, fighters and their helpers were killed and the houses from which they operated blown up. Sadly, some unfortunate innocent people were also killed as a result of being in these houses.

To achieve the second objective, they staged the atrocities.
Yes, they used some of the dead bodies for that purpose.

They wanted to be seen as ruthless savage monsters, capable of anything.
The "Left witnesses" believed them.
Haaretz believed them.
You believe them.

Fair enough, all that mattered to them, was that the local Arabs believed them too, fled their homes and thus Israel could be created and its Jewish population saved from another holocaust.

You don't have to like what they did, you don't have to agree with their second objective, or even the first, you may curse them for the rest of your life, yet their grandchildren are still alive and flourish as a result.

BTW, it is this same mentality of saying "never again" to the holocaust, which made Israel grab and hoard these vast amounts of COVID vaccines. We may be enraged that we, and most of the world, cannot get vaccines (or only poor-grade ones) while they already secured 4 Pfizer doses per person for next year (plus a vast stock of Moderna), over and above their current vaccination round. You may be angry and curse them, yet COVID-19 is dying off in Israel: the virus listens to the vaccine rather than to your sentiments.

Dear Yuyutsu,

With respect mate that is inane.

Why would documents which had been hidden in the archives have been written to scare away Arabs who would not have been privy to them?

Why would the commander be relating to a documentary maker in 2009 a few weeks before his death be saying things like:

“I won’t tell you that we were there with kid gloves on. House after house ... we’re putting in explosives and they are running away. An explosion and move on, an explosion and move on and within a few hours, half the village isn’t there any more”

“Our guys made a number of mistakes there that made me angry. Why did they do that?” he said. “They took dead people, piled them up and burned them. There began to be a stink. This is not so simple.”

And this from Yair Tsaban, a former Meretz MK and government minister, related in his interview with Shoshani

Quote

he was sent with fellow members of the Youth Brigades to bury the corpses of the dead. “The rationale was that the Red Cross was liable to show up at any moment and it was necessary to blur the traces [of the killings] because publication of pictures and testimonies about what had happened in the village would be very damaging to the image of our War of Independence,” he said.

“I saw a fair number of corpses,” he added. “I don’t remember encountering the corpse of a fighting man. Not at all. I remember mostly women and old men.” Tsaban testified that he saw inhabitants shot in the back and dismissed the claims of some of participants in the action that the locals had been hit in exchanges of fire. “An old man and a woman, sitting in the corner of a room with their faces to the wall, and they are shot in the back,” he recalled. “That cannot have been in the heat of battle. No way.”

End quote.

Rather than show anything they were trying to hide it. You sire are speaking through your hat.

As to this:

"BTW, it is this same mentality of saying "never again" to the holocaust, which made Israel grab and hoard these vast amounts of COVID vaccines. We may be enraged that we, and most of the world, cannot get vaccines (or only poor-grade ones) while they already secured 4 Pfizer doses per person for next year (plus a vast stock of Moderna), over and above their current vaccination round. You may be angry and curse them, yet COVID-19 is dying off in Israel: the virus listens to the vaccine rather than to your sentiments."

This is a stab at modern day persecution complex? Who is criticizing them. Not either of us. Israel got hit hard by by the virus. Hoard away, but also deal with the population you have under occupation with the stewardship required.

Dear SteeleRedux,

«Why would documents which had been hidden in the archives have been written to scare away Arabs who would not have been privy to them?»

Are you referring to the documents by Shraga Peled?

He was from the rival militia, the Haganah, so as part of the scheme he was set up and presented with the pogrom-like ugly pictures, in hope that he will "expose" it. Shraga chose not to expose, but others did.

«Why would the commander be relating to a documentary maker in 2009 a few weeks before his death be saying things like:»

It was an authentic description of a fierce house-to-house battle.
Some of his soldiers made mistakes, that happens too.
You do need to get rid of corpses one way or the other, otherwise they spread disease.

«And this from Yair Tsaban, a former Meretz MK and government minister, related in his interview with Shoshani»

According to the article, Shoshani wasn't there during the "massacre", but only sent there afterwards.

No wonder they were sent to bury corpses, no wonder they were trying to hide things from the Red Cross - they were from the Haganah, the rival militia, they didn't share the same objectives and strategies with the Irgun!

As for corpses of old people shot at the back, things happen in the heat of a battlefield, not every shot reaches its exact target, civilians get mixed up when perhaps they want to give the fighters a glass of water, or even to ask them to cease and surrender. The clever thing was to then take such corpses that were accidentally shot and sit them in a corner of their room, facing the wall, or to burn a corpse with a tree as if he was burned alive - this was the unique strategy of the Irgun which the Haganah did not share.

«Hoard away, but also deal with the population you have under occupation with the stewardship required.»

I fully agree. Israel's denial of responsibility is not only cruel, but also stupid because it increases the chances of variants emerging next-door.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Mate you have gone from you stridently asserting “Only fighters were killed, only houses from which the troops were fired on were blown up”

To:

“Insofar as it was necessary to achieve the first objective, fighters and their helpers were killed and the houses from which they operated blown up. Sadly, some unfortunate innocent people were also killed as a result of being in these houses.”

And finally:

“As for corpses of old people shot at the back, things happen in the heat of a battlefield, not every shot reaches its exact target, civilians get mixed up when perhaps they want to give the fighters a glass of water, or even to ask them to cease and surrender.”

Look I get it, this is the type of behaviour or gas lighting those who choose to defend the actions of Israel inevitably find themselves engaged in.

You have attempted it on a number of fronts during this discussion and it has caught up with you. Outside of the topic of the actions of Israel I am happy to consider your contributions as having a degree of veracity. With the greatest respect, on this subject never again I'm afraid.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I am not trying to defend Israel, only to be objective about the facts, which are in this case:

1. Israel will do whatever it takes to win its war of survival. Yes, even if innocent others are accidentally killed, whatever it takes, no hold-backs.
2. Israel does not harm others otherwise, be it for fun or whatever.

Is such policy right? is it wrong? You be the judge...

SR in utter ignorance wrote : The Histories of Herodotus in the 5th century BCE used the term.

In fact he didn't. That's just used in translations to make it easier for the uninitiated to understand. He used a term closer to our Philistine to describe people from the region of Phonecia.

But let's pretend you're right. The people there at the time were Jews. So by your 'logic' Jews are Palestinian. The people now claiming to be Palestinian didn't arrive for another 1200 years.

I'd encourage you to learn the history of the region but you refuse to even learn the history from 1870 it's unlikely you'll learn it from 511BC

Dear Mhaze,

«The people now claiming to be Palestinian didn't arrive for another 1200 years.»

Many of these people who now claim to be "Palestinian" are in fact the original Jews who lived in Israel and farmed its land for millennia. They happened to convert to Islam at some stage (in order to avoid the heavy taxes), but they are still the same people.

The question is why are you focusing on the one incident where Arab civilians were killed and ignoring the 3 incidents when far more Israeli civilians were deliberately targeted by Arabs and murdered.

That's clearly antisemitism or racism in itself. Apparently the left believe that the Palestinians are sub-humans that cannot be held responsible for their actions and need to be protected like sharks.

Shadowminister,

Two quotes that sum up the situation:

The first is from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu and his approach to Palestinians:

"Beat them up, not once but repeatedly,
Beat them up so it hurts so badly,
until it's unbearable!"

The second quote is from author Noam Chomsky:

"Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval
vessels to bomb densely crowded refugee camps,
schools, apartment blocks, mosques and slums to
attack a population that has no air-force, no navy,
no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized
armour, no command in control, no army, and calls it
war. It's not war, its murder!"

Dear Yuyutsu,

You say: “Israel will do whatever it takes to win its war of survival.”

Well yes, all that is being acknowledged here is that deception, embellishment, gas-lighting and outright lying is included within that strategy by so many of its supporters.

You have employed some of them here and been called out on it.

As to your facts they could just as easily be written as such:

1. Palestinians will do whatever it takes to win its war of survival. Yes, even if innocent others are accidentally killed, whatever it takes, no hold-backs.
2. Palestinians does not harm others otherwise, be it for fun or whatever.

What is the difference?

This is from a book Warrior at Suez.

At that point the Israeli gunners aimed their heavy mortars on the civilians in the centre of the crowded town of Gaza, turning it into a slaughterhouse. “the investigation team counter seventy-nine impacts of 120mm mortar shells, all at a distance of more than one kilometer from the nearest Egyptian military position,” noted the U.N. Observers' report. Shelling was centered on the main street of the town. The Israel allegation according to which the Egyptians had ,fortified emplacement within the confines within the city of Gaza' and 'the heavy mortar fire from these emplacement was directed at Israel settlements' was without any foundation in fact.

“The bombardment of Gaza started at 4:15 pm and resulted in the deaths of sixty-two Arabs, including 25 women and children, and 107 wounded, forty-six of them women and children.”

All this without a single Israeli death.

So how is knowingly targeting a market place with so many mortar shells any different to planting a car bomb? Both are acts of terrorism in my book.

Dear mhaze,

Nick off mate you have become boring

Dear SteeleRedux,

What is the difference?

1. The "Palestinians" are not in a war of survival. Nobody would ever stop them from living peacefully on their land had this been what they wanted. Had they not attacked first in 1948, they could have had their state over the majority of Israel (according to the map as decided by the United-Nations), leaving Israel tiny and unviable, or alternately been integrated into Israel and controlled it democratically from within.
2. Even if they were fighting for survival, let us suppose, then the violent steps they took only achieved the opposite and lead them away from survival. They only get further beaten whereas by peaceful diplomatic means they could instead accept, not once, Israel's offer of independence on 97% of their land, then of course they could and should have used their new position to continue to improve and pursue the remaining 3% (fair enough, that would be deceptive, so what?). If we are to believe that they do what they do in attempting to survive, then we can only conclude that their intelligence is totally obscured... so much that they are not even capable of deceit, let alone evaluate their strengths and weaknesses realistically.

Well there goes the difference between intelligent, effective successful terrorists, who when finding themselves in a desperately inferior military position make good use of deceit, compared with foolish, clumsy failed ones who despite their military advantage always shoot themselves in the foot.

Deception was also used extensively by the Partisans who fought the Nazis from the woods. Would you condemn them too?

Sadly, the useless and violent "Palestinian" policies only brought out the ugly violent tendencies in Israel, supporting its continued occupation and the rise of Netanyahu.

"Surely you need guidance to wage war, and victory is won through many advisers." [Proverbs 24:6]

" It would be my greatest sadness to see Zionists
do to Palestinian Arabs much of what the Nazis
did to Jews."
( Albert Einstein)).

"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete
without the freedom of the Palestinians."
( Nelson Mandela).

" Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same way
that England belongs to the English or France to
the French."
(Mahatma Gandhi).

"Nick off mate you have become boring"

Translation for those who don't speak SRese....Mhaze, please stop point out my errors.

Meanwhile for all those trying oh so hard to not see anything that might show China in a bad light....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-17/inside-china-s-media-war-on-xinjiang/100068394

Talking about putting China in a bad light?
(As compared to Israel?). Well lets see if
there are any parallels:

The Washington Times gave an opinion/analysis
in late December 2019:

They pointed out :

"What would happen if the Israelis were keeping a close
eye on Palestinians within Israel's borders and that
for at least (several decades) had been rounding up
Palestinian men and women (and children) and shipping them
off to "re-education" or concentration camps without
trials?"

" The international community and media would go nuts.
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu would be roundly denounced
by one and all, the US Congress would enact sanctions.
Middle Eastern UN Representatives would denounce Israel
as totalitarian anti-Muslim and illegitimate and there
would be demands that Mr Netanyahu be arrested as a racist
and tried by the International Criminal Court for crimes
against humanity."

" Universities and pension funds would face demands that
they "divest" themselves of any investments in Israel and
there would be demonstrations or even riots in many Arab
cities."

"Of course Israel has never launched or even contemplated
such an attack on minorities within its borders, but
China is doing just that. China is actively persecuting and
imprisoning and terrorizing millions of Uyghurs in the
Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of northwest China."

"Beijing has continually denied all this - at the same
time claiming it is necessary for their security and to
fight terrorism. And they remind their critics - what
goes on in China - is nobody's business but theirs
and the world should mind its own business."

"Most countries have muted their criticism of what
amounts to as a humanitarian crisis in an effort to
avoid "offending" Beijing. Beijing's money, power,
and trade are as significant as Beijing's willingness
to punish any nation or entity critical of its policies
and reward those that accept or even defend their
behaviour and practices that would never be tolerated
from other nations."

Interesting analysis.

Foxy,

Your last post actually makes my point. There a long list of countries committing atrocities against minorities and the rest of the world is silent.

Yet Israel who actively tries to reduce civilian casualties when terrorists are firing from populated areas is condemned and those firing from populated areas (effectively using them as human shields) are free from criticism.

This is significantly due to antisemitism.

Shadowminster,

Aren't Arabs semites as well? And isn't being
anti - them - anti-Semitic?

Foxy,

The Geneva convention which applies to declared and undeclared conflicts makes it clear that firing on an unarmed civilian population is a war crime UNLESS there are enemy combatants within that population that are actively firing on your positions. In this case relatatory firing is not a war crime, and the act of using civilian populations as a human shield is a war crime.

The incident refered to by SR where civilians were killed has several reports not only of Arabs firing from households full of civilians, but also of Arabs firing on Israeli troops after a cease fire to evacuate civilians was agreed. If this was the case the killings while a tragedy were not a war crime.

Finally,

While Arabs are also "semites" the term antisemitic is synonomous with anti-jewish.

Shadowminister,

The term "anti-Semitic" was coined in 19th century
Germany. anti-Semitic literally and technically
means being opposed to someone who speaks a
Semitic language (Arabic and Hebrew). At that time
Jews in Europe did not speak a Semitic language.

And we don't know how much knowledge of philology and
linguistics Wilhelm Marr the German who coined that
phrase in 1879 had.

All a bit confusing. People have used it to their advantage
for decades.

shadowminister,

That indeed was the IDF excuse after the attack but the subsequent inquiry showed it to be completely false.

SR

An excerpt from Wiki on the account of the attack shows clearly that there was heavy armed resistance from the Arabs.

"After the briefing, the fighters were driven to their assigned positions. The Irgun force approached Deir Yassin from the east and south, arriving at the edge of the village at about 4:30 AM. The Lehi force was supposed to be taking their positions around the village at the same time but were in fact late. The Irgun commanders had no way to contact them, and had to assume they were on schedule. Following the Lehi group were Pa'il and a photographer. He wanted to observe the revisionists fighting capabilities.

Fighting began at 04:45 when a village sentry spotted the Irgunists moving in, and called out in Arabic, "Mahmoud". One of the Irgun fighters thought he had said "Ahdut", part of the password. He responded with the second half of the password, "Lohemet". According to an Irgun fighter, the Arabs shouted "Yahud" (Jews) and opened fire.[34]

A gunbattle then broke out. The Irgun force came under fire from a three-man village guard in a concrete pillbox, and from houses in the village as residents scrambled for their rifles to join the battle, firing out of windows. The Irgun men replied with withering fire towards the pillbox and into the village.[citation needed]

When the Lehi force, which was late, finally arrived at the other end of the village to begin the attack, the fighting was already underway. The Lehi force was spearheaded by an armored vehicle with a loudspeaker.[fn 2] The plan was to drive the vehicle into the center of the village and blare a warning in Arabic, urging the residents to run towards Ein Karim. Instead, the vehicle halted or overturned at a ditch directly in front of the village, and as it struggled to get out, the Arabs opened fire on it. Whether a warning was read out on the loudspeaker is unknown. Yachin stated that it was:[35]

Cont

"After we filled in the ditch we continued travelling. We passed two barricades and stopped in front of the third, 30 meters away from the village. One of us called out on the loudspeaker in Arabic, telling the inhabitants to put down their weapons and flee. I don’t know if they heard, and I know these appeals had no effect.

Abu Mahmoud, a survivor, told the BBC in 1998 that he did hear the warning.[36] Aref Samir stated that he didn't hear the warning:[37]

Many times [previously] a curfew had been imposed on the village, and when the British loudspeaker would call out at one end of the village, I could here it at the other end; moreover, a shout from Givat Shaul, even without a loudspeaker, would be clearly heard in our village. On the morning of that day we heard nothing. No loudspeaker and no shouts. We awoke to the sound of shots.

If a warning was read out it was obscured due to the sounds of heavy gunfire and few, if any, villagers heard it.[38][1]

Cont

"Irgun and Lehi commanders had believed the residents would flee, but the fighters encountered resistance. The residents did not realize that the point of the attack was conquest, thinking it was just a raid, and failed to run while they had the chance.[39] The villagers' sniper fire from higher positions in the west, especially from the mukhtar's house, effectively contained the attack. Some Lehi units went for help from the Haganah's Camp Schneller in Jerusalem.[40] The men had no experience of attacking an Arab village in daylight, and lacked support weapons. Following an order from Benzion Cohen, the Irgun commander, they resorted to house-to-house attacks, throwing grenades into every house before charging in and spraying the rooms with automatic fire.[41]

The Lehi forces slowly advanced, engaging in house-to-house fighting. In addition to Arab resistance, they also faced other problems; weapons failed to work, a few tossed hand grenades without pulling the pin, and a Lehi unit commander, Amos Kenan, was wounded by his own men.[42] Yachin in an interview decades later, claimed: "To take a house, you had either to throw a grenade or shoot your way into it. If you were foolish enough to open doors, you got shot down—sometimes by men dressed up as women, shooting out at you in a second of surprise."[43] Meanwhile, the Irgun force on the other side of the village was also having a difficult time. It took about two hours of house-to-house fighting to reach the center of the village.[38]"

Shadowminister,

It is not often that we get such clear and self confessed examples of brutal ethnic cleansing do we.

SR,

There are many more examples of the Ethnic cleansing of Jews by the Arabs.

Shadowminister,

No there patently is not so why claim it?

Just one example:

https://www.jimena.org/remembering-the-ethnic-cleansing-of-egypts-jews/

The same happened in Jordan, Syria etc.

As for the 3 examples of massacres of Jews by the Arabs in 1948 which ostensibly was to rid Palestine of Jews, followed by the 1967 and 1973 wars started by the Arabs to ethnically cleanse Israel.

shadowminister,

It wasn't just the Jews but a whole bunch of those deemed foreigners.

"The exodus of the Mutamassirun ("Egyptianized"), which included the British and French colonial powers as well as Jews, Greeks, Italians, Syrians, Armenians, began following the First World War, and by the end of the 1960s the exodus of the foreign population was effectively complete. According to Andrew Gorman, this was primarily a result of the "decolonization process and the rise of Egyptian nationalism"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956%E2%80%9357_exodus_and_expulsions_from_Egypt

SR,

What bollocks, while foreigners were discouraged, Jews specifically were targeted. All their land and possessions were confiscated and they were told to leave or be put in concentration camps.

This was largely replicated amongst all Arab countries which lead to the Jewish population in Israel more than doubling.