I have just written a letter to Energy Australia complaining about the short notice given with their latest account.

The bill for my quarterly supply arrived today, for $821,94, a not insignificant amount, which has increased exponentially since renewables were added to the mix. It is not that long ago that this bill would have been under $500.

However this was not my complaint to them. You see it is due for payment on or before December 27Th. This is much shorter notice than they have given in the past. I budget for these things, so not a problem for me, but I'm sure raising $800 in a couple of weeks would be a problem for the more unwary among us.

Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill, or should these people put more effort into giving more lead time, as they used to?

Hasbeen,

Energy Australia is a Chinese company.

Maybe the Chinese Communist Party has told it to turn up the heat on its customers to make life harder in Australia.

I TOLD EVERYONE THIS WOULD HAPPEN

But everyone said "Oh don't listen to Mr Opinion he's just a racist when it comes to the Chinese."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ............. China is now showing its real face and now you're all in deep sh!t with your wonderful Chiners.

GOOD ............. And the worst is yet to come.

Hassy, as a nuclear man I would have thought you would be selfsuffient in power with a one mega ton reactor pumping out the good stuff from down in your root cellar. If you haven't got one, maybe the Pakistanis could drop one on you. The alternative is solar panels in the sunshine state.

Mr O, I become sus of 'Energy Aussie' when the bill started arriving with a menu for Mr Xi's Golden Dragon take-away attached. Also the "sweet and sour" sauce stains on the envelop was a bit of a turn off as well. I immediately switched to a dinky-di Aussie supplier 'Fung Lee Power of Shanghai'

BTW, anyone dealing with 'Energy Aussie' must have rocks, sorry coal, in their head, its the dearest energy supplies in Australia.

I have always had the habit paying bills the day I get them. I never look at due by dates.

ttbn, not every one is as well organised as you & I.

We have an newish acreage development of 180 blocks between us & the main road. A couple of the new comers are vintage car enthusiasts, & have formed a local car club.

These are not poor people, Every home would have cost over the million mark, but some might have been a bit surprised at the cost of providing your own drinking water, irrigation & grey water systems. At a recent show & shine it was amazing what cars came out of the woodwork from pre WW1 through many classics to the latest US mussel cars. A few were complaining about the cost of Queensland registration at $1000 for a 80 year old straight 8 vintage car etc.

A couple were saying that a couple of car registrations & insurance bills, an electricity bill & our exorbitant council rates coming in in a month was a bit of a shock.

I recently rearranged my House & car insurance & registration dates, to fit more comfortably into the year with rates & power bills. Even budgeting properly $10,000 in a single month was not nice a nice prospect.

For lower income earners, struggling with house repayments as well as feeding a couple of kids, a bit more time before payment was due could be vital.

Paul1405,

The thing that makes me happy is knowing that I was right about the Chinese and can now say to all my critics "I TOLD YOU SO".

If I had my way I would cancel all the visas of non-Australian Chinese and send them packing because I think under the current China-Australia dispute they represent a clear and present danger.

But I'm sure nothing will happen because Soot and Dazza's gal are intent on bringing tens of thousands of Chiners into the country and I am just going to be saying again "I TOLD YOU SO".

Problem is most of the people on The Forum are just too dumb to work things out for themselves. They have to see it before they will believe it.

I don't know where you get your information about Energy Australia Paul, perhaps it is the same rag you get your global warming garbage from.

However let me assure you EA the cheapest out here on the bush, by over $400 a quarter when I switched to them, & their price has not increased on my average bill.

I wonder if you are worth them suing you for defamation ?

Paul1405,

Did you hear that? Hasbeen reckons Energy Australia will sue you for making fun of them.

Talk about being a pro-Chiner apologist. Don't worry Hasbeen your day will come. Someone will shoot that imaginary fighter plane of yours right out from under your arse.

Your mate, Mr Opinion (aka the guy who can say "I TOLD YOU SO")

Mr Opinion,
How about ceasing being a pain for awhile ?

individual,

No.

I get a kick out of telling everyone "I TOLD YOU SO" and telling everyone that things are going to get worse.

A big Aussie Ni hao! to you all. And remember you heard it here first.

LOL

Your bestest pal, Mr Opinion.

Mr 0,
Energy Australa's parent company is from Hong Kong,not mainland China.
And discriminating against Chinese people won't help anyone.

Aidan,

Hong Kong is part of China and the people of Hong Kong are Chinese.

EnergyAustralia (along with lots of other energy assets) is owned by the Chinese company China Light & Power.

How could I have got it so wrong?

Wow ............. You guys are just so smart. And remember, I TOLD YOU SO.

The most successful Chinese export is fear. That export has turned already inept Australian politicians into the proverbial headless chooks, clucking around, closing borders, and every day proving that we should be withholding our votes until they grow up or are replaced by people who know what they are doing. The latest from that lunatic in WA is closing the border to people from NSW while they are in midair.

On the matter of electricity, China's refusal to take our coal is seeing massive power outages to hundreds of millions of their citizens who are banned from turning on any heating until the temperature is below zero. Chinese will have plenty of time to think about the CCP as they climb all of those stairs in their high rise apartment blocks because the lifts aren't working.

Some areas of China are experiencing temperatures 40c below zero. More than a billion Chinese are being punished far more than Australians are by the CCP's stupid ban on Australian coal.

In 2021 we will have worse things to worry about than electricity, the China virus and bushfires, according to predictions from two public figures: one a solid currently serving politician not given to emotional outbursts; the other a bit skatty but not a total write-off.

Number one: there will be an expanded grey zone conflict with China or an actual war. Low probability, but we must prepare now.

Number two: Chinese boat people will come from their “fishing” base in PNG or the four islands they own in the Whitsundays. We will continue to attack our own soldiers who are needed to defend us. China will continue to see Australia as a vast vassal state; they can’t feed their own people and they will be wanting to come here and own it.

Ni hao cobbers! Anyone seen this Aussie:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9066939/Police-release-photo-suspect-Woman-allegedly-filmed-toilet-Sydneys-Circular-Quay.html

If you do then please contact the police.

So it's not just Australian politics, industry and communications they are spying on, they are also spying on our toilets - with a view to replacing the holes they squat over back home.

ttbn,

The Chiners just can't get enough of our toilet pussy.

Dear Hasbeen,

Quit your belly aching mate.

This is the reality for your area.

"Australian Energy Market Commission Residential electricity price trends report 2019

Power prices are estimated to fall in south east Queensland in response to rising supplies of renewable generation and falling environmental scheme costs. Over the three year period modelled by this report consumers could save $278 (or 20%) on their electricity bills out to 2022."
http://www.aemc.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-12/SE%20Qld%20fact%20pack%20-%202019%20Residential%20Electricity%20Price%20Trends.pdf

To you have anything besides your anti-renewable energy mantra that says otherwise?

Come off it SR. This must be the 5Th or perhaps 50Th time some bull duster has made such a promise, always just before there is another hike in the price.

I don't know if you are a fool or a con man, but I do know no thinking person would trust you as far as they could kick you.

Dear Hasbeen,

You really are a deeply ignorant man on so many levels.

Here is the Queensland Competition Authority's price determination for 2019-20 for regional retail customers.

http://www.qca.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/fact-sheet-residential-customers-2019-20-notified-prices.pdf

It said it ensured an average 4.4% decrease in electricity prices for the period.

So when you say; "I don't know if you are a fool or a con man, but I do know no thinking person would trust you as far as they could kick you." I'm not sure why you in particular wouldn't trust me.

SteeleRedux just wrote:

"Dear Hasbeen, You really are a deeply ignorant man on so many levels."

Tell us something we don't already know.

Hasbeen,

Correct. Falling electricity prices is just another one of the lies of RET fans and climate fanatics. Wholesale prices might well fall, but that makes the continually rising retail prices even bigger ripoffs. These people are so used to having their lies believed by you know who, they think that the rest of us don't notice that prices go up, not down. There are useful idiots helping the crooks to spread their lies. SR is just one of them. Always look at the cost per kwt, not fancy 'discounts' and other BS.

Like the bull dusters on global warming, starting at a suitable point can almost make some total lies believe.

If we chose as a starting point my first electricity bill in this house & my current bill, it paints a rather different picture.

Of course the entire electricity was coal fired in those much healthier days. My total bill was $299, which included $21 for the controlled supply to my hot water service. That serviced 3 adults & 3 kids. Today the $137 services just 2 adults, & occasional nights when my son stays, a 600+% increase for half the service.

The total bill was $900 before the Queensland Govt. rebate of $87. This works out that the solar panel & wind mill savings are remarkably hard to find. An actual total increase of just over 300%, is a pretty poor looking saving in any ones book.

I really don't see how anyone can expect to be taken seriously when they talk such utter bull s##t.

Hassy, don't know what price you paid for you house in the year dot when you bought it, but I suspect you wouldn't sell today for that price. Be honest, now would you. Yes I know you have done some improvements, like the chook pen, and the long drop out the back, we'll allow for that.

P's Hassy house FOR SALE 90 pounds, 8 shillings and threepence halfpenny.

Hassy, a happy holiday season to you and the family, and all the best for the new year. and I mean that sincerely.

ttbn says, "Always look at the cost per kwt, not fancy 'discounts' and other BS.", so I've decided to do just that. I moved into my current house four years ago and opened an account with Origin Energy. Here are the prices I've paid for electricity at the start of every quarter*.

In list below:
PU = Peak Usage rate, which is the price I pay for mains power, with units [c/kWh]
SMC = Solar Meter Charge with units [c/Day] - which over a quarter is negligible at only a few dollars
SC = Supply Charge with units [c/Day] - which averaged over the last four years has surprisingly decreased.

SFI = Solar Feed-In rate, is the rate they pay me for supplying solar to the grid, with units [c/kWh].
(As-an-aside, it is interesting to note that the total quarterly money I get paid for solar is ball park the same as the SMC+SC charge. Is this a coincidence or evil conspiracy? :) )

jan/apr 2017: PU-23.26 SMC-6.26 SC-116.47 | SFI-6.00
apr/jul 2017: PU-23.26 SMC-6.26 SC-116.47 | SFI-6.00
jul/oct 2017: PU-24.51 SMC-6.43 SC-114.19 | SFI-7.00
oct/jan 2017-18: PU-24.51 SMC-6.43 SC-114.19 | SFI-7.00
jan/apr 2018: PU-24.51 SMC-6.43 SC-114.19 | SFI-7.00
apr/jul 2018: PU-24.51 SMC-6.43 SC-114.19 | SFI-7.00
jul/oct 2018: PU-24.20 SMC-6.43 SC-112.73 | SFI-7.00
oct/jan 2018-19: PU-24.20 SMC-6.34 SC-112.73 | SFI-7.00
jan/apr 2019: PU-24.20 SMC-6.34 SC-112.73 | SFI-7.00
apr/jul 2019: PU-26.63 SMC-6.974 SC-124.003 | SFI-7.00
jul/oct 2019: PU-24.915 SMC-6.974 SC-116.061 | SFI-7.00
oct/jan 2019-20: PU-24.915 SMC-6.974 SC-116.061 | SFI-7.00
jan/apr 2020: PU-24.915 SMC-6.974 SC-116.061 | SFI-7.00
apr/jul 2020: PU-24.915 SMC-6.974 SC-116.061 | SFI-7.00
jul/oct 2020: PU-23.935 SMC-6.70 SC-111.498 | SFI-6.00

So over the last 4 years, the cheapest was jan/apr 2017 @ 23.26c/kWh and the most expensive was apr/jul 2019 @ 26.63c/kWh. This is an increase of 14.49%.

However, from 4 years ago (jan/apr 2017) till most recent (jul/oct 2020) the price has increased from 23.26c/kWh to 23.935c/kWh. This is an increase of just 2.90% which is way less than general inflation.

[*Note: prices typically change during a period not at the start.]

Dear Hasbeen,

This is pretty simple mate. What tariff are you on? Regional Qld so probably 11. What was your cost per kw last year and what is it this year?

Hi Steele,

Hassy hasn't gone metric yet, can you put that in BTU's. He does so love horsepower, still keeps a Clydesdale just for that purpose.

Happy holidays Steele, all the best to you and yours, take care and a Happy New Year.

Got the local tribe over for Xmas day.

Dear Paul1405,

And happy holidays to you too.

A couple of biggish family gatherings coming up. Eating and drinking far too much of course but it will be good to catch up.

And yes unlikely to hear from Hasbeen on those prices I feel.

“Residential customers Typical customers on the main residential tariffs (tariffs 11, 31 and 33) are expected to pay around 5.9 to 16.6 per cent less for their electricity in 2020–21.”

http://www.qca.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/main-report-final-determination-2020-21.pdf

Go to page 4 for the graph.

This is on top of the 4% reduction over the last financial year. All down to those pesky renewables dropping the prices.

Same for us Steele, eating and drinking, down for a big lot at our place, I'm doing the hangi, Maori's have no idea when it comes to that sort of thing. I miss my brother-in-law, he would feed a 100 people with an in the ground hangi at his house, he would pay for the lot, a very generous man, could not do enough for people. We got on so well, Jake The Muss, and this "Skippy" married to his Sis. Seriously, it always goes well, I use pickled pork rather than fresh, along with chicken and lamb plus lots of veg.

Just had an unexpected Xmas visit from our mokopuna, along with her partner and our great grand moko, she's only 6 months, children with children, but they're doing fine, never a problem with so much family support.

The Problem with Solutions
No one seems to understand that fossil fuels are needed to construct the renewable infrastructure and very few seem to understand just how much solar/wind/batteries/hydro is needed to replace the present infrastructure. It is not just as simple as saying the present maximum demand is 1X gigawatts so we will install 1x gigawatts of wind and solar generation.

Before we go into that, fossil fuels are needed to produce the cement, steelwork, aluminium, copper, plastics fibreglass etc etc. Also they must be mined processed and manufactured into components. That is an enormous project on its own and at the same time you are trying to reduce emissions !
You cannot build such a system while at the same time reduce emissions.

However you have not taken into account that the sun does not always shine, there are cloudy days and the wind certainly does not always blow. The solution to that is you have to have other generating equipment elsewhere to pick up the wind and solar. Multiple sites spread over thousands of kilometres are needed.

Batteries are always suggested as the obvious backup sources and they are very useful for technical services in the network such as frequency control and instant availability if a large bank of cloud passes by.
However as the usual meaning of base load supply is concerned they are a mirage, for a reason that never gets mentioned. Except the MHR Craig Kelly spoke about it recently.
Take this scenario;
It is winter and the sun is setting at 4pm, around the same time as is usual in winter the wind is dropping, and commercial buildings are switching the lights off. Drivers are arriving home and putting their electric cars on charge, about 7kw each, the microwaves and ovens are cooking dinner and domestic water heating will switch on at off peak time.
The falling generation and rising demand requires the demand to passed to the batteries and all night they hold up the supply, heating water heaters, charging cars and supplying TV sets and air conditioner until all to bed.

Next morning switch on the jug, the toaster and as it is cold switch on the air conditioner. Just about then the sun comes up and the solar cells are producing about 30% of their maximum, the wind starts picking up and the day starts.
Now the batteries are discharged and the operators need to charge them for the next night in case it is another cold still night. The system has to find the about equivalent amount of power that is daytime demand. The system is flat out supplying the country there is no surplus that big !
Well next night hope the wind is blowing a gale, whoops not over 25 knots or they shut down or you face it with flat batteries.

However, what if the next morning was still and overcast.
Would not happen everywhere so the sites in remote areas will have to supply the large demand areas such as Sydney and Melbourne as well as their nearby loads.
Will they be able to recharge the batteries as well ?

Do you now see the problem ?
Will the whole system be affordable.
Key Alan B and thorium generation, and I think he has a point !

Some people are just disconnecting from the grid completely because they are sick of the idiot electricity market and associated government red tape. High power appliances are problematic such as refrigerators and washing machines but solutions can be found. Some are perhaps attempting to mandate electric vehicles and force people back onto the grid due to the very high energy requirements. Perhaps electric vehicles are the cause of large increases in electricity costs. Strangely I've found that the connection costs are about $1 per day this means that there is a limit to how much you can control costs no matter how conscientious you might be with usage. At $400 for the connection cost per year you might soon be better off buying generation and storage systems that last 15 years.

See below- How often do you need to replace batteries in electric cars.
8 to 10 years for small cars
5 to 6 years for big cars

http://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/batteries
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/the-afterlife-of-electric-vehicles-battery-recycling-and-repurposing/
http://drive-green.co.uk/ev-info/electric-car-battery-faq/

There are 20,000 electric cars in Australia right now.
So that is a peak demand if all start charging at 10pm the usual
off peak time would be about 50 Mwatt. However only some would need
a full charge. A friend of mine charges his car about twice a week
from a 10 amp GPO in his garage.
The average distance driven by all cars in Australia per day is 40km.
It will become a major factor when the numbers get a lot higher.
It will take a long time at the present rate although Norway has the
fastest uptake at 70% of all new car sales.
If only EVs by 2030 then who knows.
Even taking into account the cost of battery replacement the all up
cost of an electric car is cheaper than a petrol car PROVIDED you do a
substantial mileage each year, despite initial high cost.
Battery warranty is 8 years.
From figures I have seen people doing 50km each way each day are well
in front. Service costs are near zero. Tyres only running cost.
My friend whose car is nearly 8 years old has never had a service.

Lets face it oil fuels will end as the fracking oil declines with
the bankruptcy of the companies in that field if you pardon the pun.
Already Shell & BP want out.

I predict someone will now post "What happened to peak oil ?"
It happened in 2005, didn't you know ?

Batteries have a somewhat fixed number of recharges (need to be replaced every 100k-150k miles)- the no maintenance aspect is positive and could offset some of the costs- the price of new car battery packs is high I believe (Leaf is $5k Tesla $10k)- they also need to do a lot of work to re-engineer the car to support battery technology- I think that many people that use their cars for more than just carrying the shopping will be disappointed. Not sure how a Tesla would go towing a trailer or a boat. I suspect the resale value of vehicles will need to be adjusted to accommodate old batteries.

I still find it difficult to get over the fact that battery technology is low density energy technology by it's very nature and cannot compete with petrol for energy density- for this reason electric cars will likely be replaced very soon- by CO2 split petrol- those with petrol cars won't be affected in this scenario.

Electric motors however are much more efficient than ICE engines- although solar panel technology is not.

Despite the impression electric vehicles don't run on "free" electricity- the electricity still costs money- 30c per kilowatt hour.

The economic benefits of electric cars is still perhaps inconclusive.

At the end of the day it requires a minimum energy to drive around a one tonne vehicle whatever it's motive power.

Whatever technology wins out in the end will be interesting

Merry Christmas Canem.
Not sure what you mean by this;
replaced very soon- by CO2 split petrol- those with petrol cars won't be affected in this scenario.

I don't think you were talking of hybrids.
The only country that has made a go of tight oil is now up against it
as the costs of drilling and fracking are eating their sales.
Because of the financial difficulties Wall St has lost interest.
We have to face it as tight oil production declines it reveals how
conventional oil production has declined.
If fracking stops suddenly then we will be in real trouble.
In the US there is a company that takes the car battery and replaces
the failing cells. Have not heard of them for a while. Maybe the
exact fit cells are not available for the newer cars.

The relative efficiency of petrol and electric cars is interesting.
Some calculations show that mine (coal) to power station to battery
to wheels has less energy loss than well to refinery to service
station to engine to wheels. A large part of the loss is in heat
generated in the petrol engine.

However we go there will be major change as oil based products
decline.
The aviation industry will hang on as it has plenty of room to
increase its prices for a reduced clientele. Certainly we are in for
some changes in the energy system.
Aside from the vehicle area it seems to me that wind and solar with
or without batteries is a no goer if we want to use electricity as
we do now, heating and cooling our work places and homes, multistory
office blocks and housing, & public transport and private transport.
Where else can we get it at a price we can afford ?
I can't see a solution other than nuclear.

These are some links on the same subject...

co2 splitting- electrolyze carbon dioxide to carbon monoxide, which is then mixed with hydrogen to produce liquid hydrocarbons like gasoline or kerosene that can be used as fuel.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/splitting-carbon-dioxide/

http://phys.org/news/2017-06-low-cost-carbon-dioxide.html

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.energyfuels.6b01265

http://www.sciencealert.com/the-first-low-cost-carbon-dioxide-splitter-means-a-brighter-future-for-clean-energy

Merry Christmas to you too Bazz.

Canem, I had heard of that process but not any details.
The articles are over my chemical head but I notice that the product
is mixed with hydrogen to make the liquid fuel.
What process is used to make the hydrogen, electrolysis is not very
energy efficient which is why hydrogen fueled cars are not efficient.
As the process relies on sunlight do we get back to duplicating the
plant to get a full days output of fuel ?
Is it like fusion, always just 10 years away ?

There are a few different versions of CO2 splitting- but the details seem to be fairly thin- probably due to a fair desire to obtain patents for the processes. Yes just ten years away like fusion. That's why we need to reduce the birthrate. But there is as you've said the fission option.