National Service

Listening to "Australia all over" this morning the subject of Farm Producers unable to get workers came up.
They were talking about a severe shortage of workers due to COVID-19 restrictions.
Why on Earth should these restrictictions impact on food producing farms ?
Anyone 17 or older & unemployed should have to work for at least a season as part of easing into a National Sercvice scheme.
They're effectively isolated on farms so, the COVID-19 restrictions are in fact in place as the workers would not travel willy nilly,.
There's a very real threat of lost food production due to unavailable workers.
What could possibly be an objection for getting the snowflakes off their sofa & away from their video games & out to a farm. They'd be alongside new people their age & away from the status quo which distracts them from thinking for themselves in suburbia. The funding wasted on them by Centrelink could instead be put to better use of taking them out to the farms where they can get away from COVID-19, get fed & have a roof over their head.
It would expose them to & offer them a foot in the door to responsible thinking & a healthier mentality ! Many would find a way to kick their drug habits at the same time !
A win for all !

The reason that there is a shortage of farmworkers is low wages, 20 years ago people, whole families, used to follow the cycle of bush work and collect their wages cash in hand; this made the exercise worthwhile but the Government stepped in and made the employers deduct tax, the result was a sudden shortage of workers because it was no longer profitable to work, far better to stay home, unemployed, and save all that travel expense and the upsets of following a nomadic life.

Don't you get it? A National Service Scheme is something that the younger generations will oppose at all costs. Fortunately it's electoral suicide because freedom loving Australians won't give a party that supports it a higher preference than one that opposes it.

Work for the dole. No fruit picking or whatever needs to harvested, no dole. I don't like the idea of National Service under any circumstances.

A National Service Scheme is something that the younger generations will oppose at all costs.
Aidan,
Those who are employed won't need to participate at this stage but depending how the scheme works out after a couple years, things may change & or may need to change. The main thing is to solve the dilemma of young people roaming the streets or wearing out their parents' sofas.
I suggest people should give a thought to those who aren't as fortunate & would prefer to have a bed to sleep in after a good feed rather than have well-off others push some indoctrinated idealism from the comfort of their Public Service salary paid off homes !
The young people you're talking about aren't the ones being cold & hungry at night, you're talking about the snowflakes of the well off who need to be experiencing work & discipline as soon as it becomes clear that their learning grades fall. Those who would embrace such a service won't need to serve because their mentality has already got them into employment !

Peusdo-individual,

These are hard times and the farmers need all the low paid Chinese migrant workers they can get their hands on.

I saw on TV that farmers are offering $200 a day to people to travel from the cities to pick fruit and veg.

Problem is that these workers have to pay for their own transport, accomodation, food, etc., etc., which means they will probably end up with about $100 a day in their hand which goes in rent and bills back home. All up working for these farmers will probably get them the financial satisfaction of a Big Mac for their efforts.

Or else just hang in there until Scott Morrison can force the states to open their borders allowing him to open the international border to bring in cashed up Chinese to feed the economy and low paid workers from Asia.

And pseudo-individual, please don't embarrass yourself by telling us that this is all news to you.

Tempting offer pseudo-individual. Why don't you and your relatives hop in a car and do it if you think it is such a great offer?

Individual,

Is it possible to combine the two ideas - a year's national service for young people, AND taking up work in fruit- and vegetable-picking by young people ? A year - call it a gap year - in which young people move around the country doing all of those jobs, seeing the country perhaps for the first time - certainly from the ground up - and getting paid as well ? Maybe they could gain some understanding of how people used to make their livings in the olden days.

Of course, paid by results, not by the hour: pick bugger-all and you get bugger-all. I did that for maybe two years, all up, between 30 and 40, met some great people, gained enormous respect for blockies and dairy-farmers, and farmers generally, and saw a lot of the country. Ate a hell of a lot of fruit too :)

We were in the pickers' quarters one lunch-time, having coffee, and a brown snake came up to the door, the only door; we all froze, each of us waiting for him to bite one of the others, and he seemed to sniff at us and moved on, while we went back to our cold coffee.

Compulsory work or solitary confinement for a year: All for it !

Joe

"Work for the dole. No fruit picking or whatever needs to harvested, no dole. I don't like the idea of National Service under any circumstances."

My feelings are most in line with ttbn,
- Only I think it should be an optional scheme, not compulsory
Where you get double-dole for full time work doing things to help the government / country - save money or be more productive and profitable.

Don't force them, let them choose the better option for themselves,
- And make it good option.

People who CHOOSE to take on this scheme
- get the financial benefits
- they also get training credits towards upgrading their skills
- so they can go on to do bigger and better things

People who CHOOSE not to take on this scheme
- get the absolute barebones basic minimum government assistance;

But they still get a minimum standard of basic education,
And they still get a minimum standard of basic healthcare,
And the opportunity of a job -
- the opportunity for more money and more mental wellbeing
- the opportunity for a better life
- if they so choose it.
And they should be encouraged to do so.

The scheme should not be an exploitation of lower paid workers but one which empowers the individual to get more skills and do better for him or her self.

Surely we can find plenty of useful things for them to do?

pseudo-mouth and pseudo-individual,

Sounds like a fantastic idea - just as long as neither of you have to do it.

Put the idea to rest and bide your time while Scott Morrison works out a way to open the international border and start flooding the country with low paid Asian workers who will end up in the cities when their visa expires hiding amongst their fellow countrymen and working in sweatshops and cafes until they get picked up as illegal migrants (in theory that is).

Armchair Critic,

Unfortunately the scheme being proposed by pseudo-mouth and pseudo-individual will exploit lower paid workers and will not empower the individual to get more skills and do better for him or herself.

But everything will be alright with their scheme providing that they or their family members are exempt from it.

It should be a scheme run by the Govt Welfare Dept & the co-operation of the farmers for UNEMPLOYED !
It has nothing to do with people travelling to & from cities. Don't condemn something before it's thought through. If you'd rather keep paying more & more taxes for more & more unemployable people then go & register your Tax file number so they can deduct it from your pay.
I'm offering an idea that would be a solution to get out of status quo & offer young people some hope !

individual,
It sounds like you want it to be a slippery slope!

Imposing solutions on young people, for a dilemma you wrongly assume they have, isn't helping them at all! Genuine opportunities are needed but instead your prejudices make you want them forced into dead end jobs.

Dear Indy,

Anything is worth a try to save our farmers and our
agricultural produce. Not so sure about National Service.
But its worth a try. And certainly it's worth getting
the unemployed young people to contribute something in
return for the money they're receiving.

Foxy,
To start off with changing for a well overdue change, we have to do two things. Let young unemployed people make a choice as outlined so well by Armchair critic. Then, let them experience the outcome of their choice.
I'd say there'd only be the standard dills who dispute that there's a desperate need for a change.
What is needed is to get unemployed & homeless people off the streets & give them hope !
This is particularly important for the young.
Being away from the soul-less concrete jungle & spending their days actively involved with others & knowing they'll get a good feed & a dry bed should only be unattractive to the already utterly lost !

Aidan,

The pandemic has cut off the almost endless supply of cheap Chinese labour so now the likes of pseudo-mouth and pseudo-individual and Phil turn their minds to feeding off the misfortunes of the younger generation of Australians who are currently in a vulnerable position.

You have to keep in mind that all those cheap Chinese migrant workers have been keeping a lot of people on OLO in good pensions and concomitant lifestyles.

And old Scotty boy will be trying his hardest to restore the social system that feeds their desires.

Mr Opinion: Very few farms in Australia have Chinese workers. Indeed if there is a farm with a lot of Chinese workers than it is most likely that they are breaking the law (they would be hiring illegal immigrants).

The source of the majority overseas labour that farmers rely on is:
- Primarily backpackers on one year working holiday visas with an optional extension to two years on completion of about 90 days of work in designated regional/rural areas (ie: the 471 visa). These visas are not available to general Mainland Chinese. Indeed backpackers from very few countries are eligible for this visa: only those from most of the EU (including UK), Canada, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. The main reason why these backpackers work on farms is to qualify for the second year extension. Most will return straight back to the cities for more work once they have secured their extension.
By-the-way, the other type of working holiday visa is the 462. People with passports from: Argentina, Bangladesh, Chile, Indonesia, Malaysia, Poland, Spain, Thailand, Turkey, USA, Uruguay may qualify for this visa. However, this visa has more stringent requirements than the 471, such as for many the countries listed you need to have a minimum of two years university level education. And this visa doesn't offer the second year extension, because of this very few with this visa would ever work on a farm.

- Long term/permanent migrants. The main break down of migrants in Australia are those are allowed as a)Refugees and the like, b)have a connection to family here, c)can prove that they can support themselves and will have a positive economic impact- either because they are rich and/or are skilled and d)New Zealanders. Category "c" folk, although some are Chinese, are not going to work on farms. Some of "b" do work on farms though not many, most commonly their family will be in the city and they can get work and support from/through them.

-- continued below --

-- continued from above --

A fair portion of (a) do work on farms, typically those with no/low skill, no/poor English but in general refugees are typically NOT Chinese (Except for the special case in 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre Australia in the main doesn't accept wholesale numbers of Chinese citizens as refugees).

- Some special rural work programs for citizens of specific small Pacific nations

- Some overseas students on study visas. But these visas are restrictive, they only allow a max of 20 hr/wk work during study times but unlimited hours during holidays. During study periods they almost certainly won't by working on farms. During the holidays some do, but most don't since either they return home or stay in their leased/rented accommodation in the city and earn more in the city than they would on a farm.

- Illegals

thinkabit,

Fair enough.

But I wasn't inferring that outsourced labour on farms was all Chinese.

The use of low paid Chinese workers is mostly in the cities.

But the point still is that Morrison is anxious to open the international border in order to flood the country with low paid migrant workers. (As well as bring in cashed up Chinese to stimulate the economy.)

That's the reason he is at loggerheads with Victoria and Qld on state borders. He needs them to open first so that he can justify opening the international border.

Personally I think Andrews should just say he'll do exactly what Morrison is telling him to do and remove restrictions and when the virus gets out of control again just blame Morrison because it was he who demanded Andrews to remove Victoria's program to contain the virus.

.. the reason he is at loggerheads with Victoria and Qld on state borders
Mr Opinion,
It could also be the other way round as they're Labor States ! The more damage they can inflict on Morrison's Govt the more Epicaricacy satisfacion for them.
I'm not saying it is such but, it can't be ruled out either !

pseudo-individual,

I totally agree with you.

It just depends who is more convincing. The two premiers could be using it as a political weapon.

But I still reckon if Andrews obeys Morrison he can blame Morrison for the next wave of WuFlu.

But then Morrison will just say it's a State matter and sidestep responsibility to put the blame back onto Andrews.

Misopinionated,

Your last comment: so you ARE living overseas somewhere ? That makes a lot of sense. Somewhere in Asia, perhaps, roughly in our time zones ? Somewhere pro-Chinese ?

As for your futile attempts to disrupt conversation on OLO, and to help you brush up on your techniques, can I recommend:

"Gas-lighting for Idiots" ?

Joe

Pseudo-mouth,

How did you work out that I am an expat? Very clever. What gave me away?

I am not trying to disrupt the discussions as you put it.

What I have always tried to do is engender critical thought about the issues and a search for the truth in place of blind acceptance.

Sorry for being the odd one out. It's the sociologist in me.

Loudmouth2,
Can 14 year olds be expats ?

Surely Aidan, there is nothing more dead end than being a dole bludger.

It is about time for a change in welfare attitude. No one should be allowed to bludge on the tax payer for more than say 6 months. If someone can't find a job in 6 months, there is nothing wrong in "helping" them get a job by sending them fruit picking.

If everyone knew that 6 months was the limit before such work became mandatory, many more would put at least some effort into finding more desirable, to them, employment.

Fruit picking can be fun & profitable. In Young in the 50s about 30% of the kids would go cherry picking. The season coincided with the finish of school exams. Both the school systems uttered threats about absenteeism, but the chance of earning the money for a new bike, sporting gear, or even a horse was too great to stop.

Life in a country town was great, but was even better when a couple of weeks pleasant work could earn you a week at a beach after Christmas. Nothing like earning your own way.

Hasbeen,

It used to be that if you lived within 90 minutes drive from work, fruit-picking, sheep-dagging, milking, hole-digging, whatever, you couldn't get any Unemployment. Benefit. Fair enough.

That's how it was when I first started fruit-picking and since I wanted more money than the UB provided, with a wife and two kids, it was fine with me. With no car, I hitched to various regions and picked, then hitched back home some weekends.

If young people did that sort of thing for a 'gap year' - and it may be the only time in their lives when they will EVER do manual work - then they may gain some appreciation for how this country was built, and for the people with few other options but lifelong hard, manual labour. Not that there is much of that these days, but we live in hope.

You could call it a form of national service if you like. Either way, young people would perhaps value uni and further education - or life in general - more highly. Plus see the country, and how stuff is made (not always in a factory by overseas labour), AND as the Big Mac says, find the love of their lives. They could do worse.

Joe

Unemployment must not be allowed to continue as a chosen alternative income.
Homelessness can be solved by a National Service scheme.
No-one should be exploited just as those who chose not to work should not be allowed to exploit welfare.
A National Service will bring about a better mentality !
A new slogan should be;
"Didn't serve a term of National Service ?
"Don't expect to land a job in the Public Service !"

Dear Individual,

You have raised this topic time and again.

- and I told you time and again that the idea of forcing people to work is sickening and amounts to slavery.

I cannot trust that this time you are motivated by a genuine concern for farm producers. Rather, I sense that your true motive is of nation-building by instilling feelings of national identity in young people, as your latest slogan betrayed: «A National Service will bring about a better mentality !».

Fortunately your evil plot will never be accepted by parliament and is also full of loopholes as you declared that:

«Anyone 17 or older & unemployed should have to work for at least a season as part of easing into a National Sercvice scheme.»

Well, what stops a young person (especially students who live with their parents and only concentrate on their school/university studies) from faking being employed, say by asking their uncle (who needs no workers) to formally employ them, then hand back their "salary" to their uncle?

And... are you going to have the military-police shoot any youngsters who attempt to escape the farms/gulags?

Actually, everyone should be making decisions for their own life ahead, just don't expect others to support you for not wanting to pull your weight.
A term of National Service should be the minimum entry requirement for the privilege to joining the Public Service .
The corruption & incompetence would drop significantly thus leaving taxpayer Dollars for where they're really needed & of good use.
Don't like doing NS, test your competence by competing in private enterprise !
As I stated earlier, to start off, only unemployed young people should be required to join & learn basic skills. Skills they have no hope in attaining on the steps of Centrelink ! Once the value of a NS becomes more & more obvious, new rules can be put in place. There's no need for a full-blown NS from Day 1, just start it & let it build & develop according to the economic state of the Nation ! The first lot of inductees can start building the infrastructure for those to follow ! The NS could be an employer for some ex Defence/Police personnel.
I have no publishable ideas as to how to deal with the Yuyutsus of this nation !

"Actually, everyone should be making decisions for their own life ahead, just don't expect others to support you for not wanting to pull your weight.", says individual the pensioner!

Perhaps a variation of the National Service idea might work.
Those young people on the dole could be offered if they come with a
mate two return tickets to a region where labour is needed.
They could be allocated a farmer to work for and they would get the
next dole payment as well, provided they worked for long enough.
Centrelink should have info on farmers in need already.
I feel that they might be more inclined to take it up if they could go with a mate.

thinkabit,
How about trying to live up to your name ?
Pensioners have already purchased their income over fifty + years

All you old age pensioners out there, do you agree/disagree that the old age pension is underserved Welfare ?
Or, do you see it as I do that we've invested in our pension for over 50 years ?
To simply wipe away a lifetime of paying taxes including a 7.5% component for the pension by some Govt apron clingers is a very dangerous pretext !
Just because the contributions were no longer shown on payslips not long after the Goaf outfit, is no justification for calling the pension now Welfare !
Many Job incentives & project funding of late are actual welfare yet no-one remarks on that.
I firmly believe that a National Service is vital for at least maintaining if not bettering the present economics. Anyone who served would not be so insipid as to call the old age pension Welfare !

Bazz,

Better still, why not put them in shackles and put them to work as slaves?

And when the farmers are finished with them you can sell them to your Chinese mates for organ transplants.

If you don't have any Chinese mates then try asking some L-NP MPs who can put you in contact with some Chinese business contacts of theirs.

If you don't know who to contact just keep your eyes on the news because they'll be coming out of the woodwork soon.

One has to assume that people having a shot at pensioners and calling the Age Pension "welfare" are themselves too rich to qualify for it. Most people on an Age Pension, full or part, didn't have any form superannuation when they were working. The younger smart arses think the the world started at the time of their birth, or that everything prior to their existence was the same as it is today.

Perhaps they would like to see Australia ending up a Third World country quicker than it already is, with no pension, no nothing: just average people having to work until they drop dead. Something like Communist China, where they could still be rich, but tout the virtues of socialism.

What the silly, selfish gits don't seem to comprehend is that, we propped up their parents' & grandparents' pensions just as we expect them to put in their share now for us. The fact they work at least a decade less than we did is something they have to come to grips with !
The previous generation brings up the next !
Superannuation will eventually falter as much of it is being used up long before they reach retirement age. They'll be in a jam of their own making !
A National Service scheme could pull them out !

ttbn,

Keep on going down the path that most on OLO want to tread and we'll probably soon end up as part of China.

Indy, I've been away and haven't had a chance to comment on your "National Service". You said; "Anyone 17 or older & unemployed". Well, I take it you're a tad over 17 and in between engagements at the moment, you're a prime candidate.

Paul1405,
The lack of judgement you & Mr Opinion & a couple of others put on display here for the World to read, is exactly the kind only a National Service can remedy !
It's time to give you trolls a wide berth again for awhile !

Indy keep your shirt on,

All is not lost, the cavalry have arrived in the form of 160 mango pickers from Vanuatu, two weeks hols in Darwin then its into the NT mangos, onto North Queensland for, you guessed it, more mango picking.

Indy I do believe you hail from up North Queensland way, how are you up a mango tree? The mangos are calling! "pick me, pick me"

Once I get my Seniors National Service up and running the old folks wont know what hit em'. No more hanging around gods waiting room, knocking back schooners, playing bingo, no more pigging out on the complementary cheese and crackers at the bar. No more of those $10 pensioner specials, bangers and mash, being an old folky favourite at the bistro for lunch, no more ideal afternoons playing the pockies! No siree, its up and at em' the mangos are waiting!

I do believe we have enough old folk welfare fellas on the Forum to form our first work detail. Indy you are promoted to the rank of corporal and are in command. Hassy, ttbn, mhaze, runner, etc etc report for duty at 0 400 hours , that's army lingo for 4am, you'll love the early start out there in the great outdoors.

Mr O, as the only one showing enough intelligence to run this operation. Are you free to take overall command with the rank of Major General and HQ'ed in the penthouse of the Ritz, with full hotel service of course, on a token salary of $800,000 pa.

Paul, you are not far out;
Read recently about grey nomads stuck in one state filling in time and
getting a bit of pocket money fruit picking.
The farmers realised there was some bored nomads in the caravan park.
Complete with accommodation and food. Or just commute each day.

My understanding of Individuals National Service idea is that it has two parts- rights and responsibilities.

Rights- Young people have the right to a job and to participate in the success of Australia to have the opportunity to grow within the structure of Australian society in line with their contributions so that both Australia and the young person benefit from their loyal service.

Responsibilities- Young people have the responsibility to try to contribute.

The responsibility of the institutions is to create opportunities for young Australian's and others to integrate into Australian society utilizing their brilliance for the benefit of all and to be rewarded accordingly- this cooperation and cohesion making Australia strong.

The right of the institutions is to expect loyalty from their people for their protection.

From time to time changes there may need to be made to the institutions after careful consideration but this shouldn't become a license for changefulness, progressivism and instability.

Society in the past was in theory a system of rights and responsibilities between parties- modern society is profligate.

Those societies that protect themselves- in a broad sense- from themselves and others- will prosper.

In the past- the village looked after it's own- over time faulty experimental government systems have left the vulnerable impoverished- mass culture and over competitiveness has definitely influenced this- although it has also sometimes helped for example with mass production reducing costs for the so called middle class- but there are still the dispossessed- those for which society has become toxic and meaningless.

The communist agents are happy to promote slavery for ideas in our schools but not in the forces because for the time being they don't control them. Control of the army perhaps is in the final stages of communist subversion. Ideas are more dangerous than guns- Joseph Stalin.

The communists want disillusioned young- fodder for cannons

Paul1405,

Thanks for the job offer but I was hoping to get the role of imaginary Admiral of Phil's imaginary aircraft carrier where I could watch Phil having dogfights with the Red Baron from the bridge.

"Roger Phil Roger ...... good show old boy ....... all clear to land."

That's ok Mr O, me thinks Phil was the spotter pilot for Captain Cook on the Endeavour, a bit tricky landing on the deck with all those sails and things in the way. Up there in the wild blue yonder in his Sopwith Camel, with the Red Baron firmly in his sights!

CM are you one of histories revisionists with; "The communists want disillusioned young- fodder for cannons" Anyone with half a brain would know it has been Capitalism that has sent millions of young to fight and die in their phony wars, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East just to name a few major wars of modern times, all the work of Capitalism. The Communists were a lot of things but warmongers they were not.

Communism is the worst kind of Capitalism !

Just found these;

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Pseudo-individual,

He also said that all men are created equal.

He just happened to be an owner of a lot of slaves at the time he said it.

And that's why I call you pseudo-individual.

PS Are there any more like you at home?

He also said that all men are created equal.
Well, lately, some were created in test tubes !

Paul,

Yes, we are all well aware of how the Capatilsist of North Korea invaded South Korea and started the Korean War.

pseudo-individual,

You just said:

"He also said that all men are created equal.
Well, lately, some were created in test tubes!"

Would you like to have another go?

Would you like to have another go?
Mr Opinion,
Yeah why not.
Some were even created by force, some parents can't remember how their kids were created.
Many were created in such a way that they call the wrong man dad.
Still more were and, are still created in ethnic cleansing attrocities.
If you can imagine it, people were created by whatever means you can imagine.
How do you imagine you were created ?

Individual,

What makes you think he/she/it was ? It could be a failed bot :)

Joe

pseudo-individual and pseudo-mouth,

Someone as fantastic as myself can only exist in your imagination.

Loudmouth2,
He/she/it would obviously be a total waste of space in a NS scheme, not even suitable for cannon fodder.
NS schemes around the World are military-based but I believe a non-military, community service based scheme would would be supported by the majority if only those at the political helm had the gonads to propose it.
It should commence now whilst the labour shortage for fruit picking is of huge concern. NOW is a perfect God-given time to do so when so many are homeless & unemployed. Even the unemployables like our resident git troll could pick up a rake if they're too clumsy to hold a fruit !
The main issue is that they have to learn to accept that the times of reward for no effort are a thing of the past. Those bureaudroids who continue not doing their job must be identified & moved into positions where they have to perform. Also, not participating in a National Service should automatically exclude anyone from the privilege of employment in the Public Service ! We keep getting reminded how valuable a BA is so, let them prove its value in private enterprise !

Still going on about something that isn't going to happen!

Still going on about something that isn't going to happen!
ttbn,
just you wait till vegies are in short supply soon on the Supermarket shelves !
Consumers will demand the young unemployed go to the farms picking fruit & vegies !
Similar to a NS scheme.

I hope you all pay attention to this post.
I outlined the solution for you years ago and my reasons why I thought it was the right one.

And I still support the exact same conclusions I originally came to.

Look at the bigger picture.
We have private capitalist healthcare and a socialist base level heathcare system
We have private capitalist education and a socialist base level education system
- The socialist systems prvide a base level of heathcare and education to all citizens, whilst the private capitalist systems allow you to enjoy a higher standard than the base level, if you're willing to pay for it.
We have a private capitalist jobs sytems but we don't really think of it that way, it's just jobs.
But to make the system right, and fair to all, we need a socialist base level jobs system, to help pay for the free base level healthcare and education systems we already have in place.
Some people argue to get rid of medicare, this just takes up backwards.
To go forwards we need to build the system properly with a base level socialist jobs system.

Think 'The job you have when you don't have a job'
Think 'Double-dole doing full time work doing things to help the government save money - or be more effective for the nation'
Think we already pay people half of 'double dole' to do nothing.
Why not pay them double dole, get something back and then break even instead of taking an outright loss?
Why let them fall into a downward spiral in their lives if you don't have to?
How much are you going to save altogether?

Let them choose.

What happens if we remove Centrelink compliance and all that goes with it, save all that money and put it into a system that actually does provide a fair and decent opportunity to get ahead?

What happens if we just create a system where in the same way you choose to take part in this optional system, your also choosing to not take part in it if you dont?

Double Dole, + Training Credits towards purchasing new skills
+ extra rewards and incentives for more difficult or better skilled work.

Incentive on training for jobs via the app - free
(free to watch videos of job tasks, practical and theory of skills and jobs explained)
For example learn how to use equipment by simulators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKIH1inweIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZa24yI_ESw
Testing for these new skills - comes out of your training credits or you can pay for it yourself or even afterpay the testing costs
- digital resume, and jobs in the socialist base level jobs system matched to skills in digital resume

What happens if we actually create a system that breaks the cycle of intergenerational welfare dependence, with one that empowers the individual to do better for themselves?

I figured this out years ago.

We have the power with computers and apps to do it.
We could never do this before, and now we can.

I thought we needed to create a national project like high speed road rail water electricty internet hub connecting all capital cities.
And connect all different sources of power generation to this hub
Generators in train wheels to return power to the grid when not under power, water flow generators from the transferring of water from full dams to emptier ones.
Solar and wind farms, waterwheels even, built where practicable all along the grid to increase output, even nuclear plant in each state if necessary.
Big housing factories where various designed removalble dwellings come off a production line and can be delivered anywhere via the new road rail network fast.

I was thinking big, but making best use of farms is just as important.

The reason why I thought 'high speed road rail water electricty internet hub connecting all capital cities' was the best idea, was because I realised the only way to actually make businesses in our country more competitive without lowering wages is to lower the cost of transport and electricity instead.

So the real aim of the socialist jobs system is to provide more skills for and opportunities for the capitalist jobs / business system.

One hand washes the other.

And the housing factory idea came as a progression of the transport hub idea.
If we now have a more effective transport hub why not use it to our benefit create more jobs for people assembling these houses in factories and deliver them anywhere.

We extend the benefits.

The government could rent them to people requiring housing, and sell or lease excess, we could've used some quarantine areas with this pandemic.

Armchair Critic,
We simply can not start Day 1 with everything in place. What we need to do is simply start !
Start & then let it snowball !
I just pray that the COVID-19 situation & the very soon shortage of produce workers situation, will jerk people into clearly seeing that we can't go on as we have in the 30 years.
we need to accept that only reward for effort keeps things going, not fanciful idealist rhetoric.
Socialism only works for a few & only as long as the capitalists can employ people.
Does anyone here think COVID-19 is the only hurdle for us ?
Think just a little more about bureaucrats who inappropriate our Tax Dollars & still get full pay whilst many lost income & even accommodation !
Whilst we have the impact of COVID-19, Public Servant salaries should be dropped by 10 % as should registration fees !

Also council rates should drop by 10% or more. My understanding is bloated councils have increased at greater than inflation for a while and are now offering extensive costly services that aren't used by many. What about user pays. Child care shouldn't generally be run by the councils. $120 for rubbish per year when you don't have a bin- ridiculous. Australian's need to put pressure on state governments to control council rates- I think that is the how this works- Minister for Local Government- they need to reduce head count in councils. High rates keeps rent high

The one reason why the salaries & rates etc haven't been reduced so-far is because the Public Service Union (Labor) won't allow it. They'd rather see hundreds of thousands of decent Australian Citizens lose everything so that the public Servants don't have to sacrifice a tiny bit of income, which they don't morally deserve in the first place !

"IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM"

WRITTEN BY A 21 YEAR OLD FEMALE

Wow, this girl has a great plan! Love the last thing she would do the best.

This is how she feels about the social welfare big government state, that she's being forced to live in!

These solutions are just common sense in her opinion.

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco, TX.

PUT ME IN CHARGE . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. No cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away.

If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. Then, we'll test you for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine.
If you want to use drugs, alcohol, or smoke, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair.
Your "home" will be subject to inspections any time and possessions will be inventoried.
If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you.
We will sell your 22-inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common good."

Before you write that I've violated your rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary.

If you want our money, accept our rules

Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin your "self-esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self-esteem, also called stealing!

If we are expected to pay for your mistakes, we should at least attempt to make you learn from your bad choices. The current system rewards you for continuing to make bad choices.

I love this one....

AND while you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct.

For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov't welfare check.

If you want to vote, then get a job.

Now, you have to PASS THIS ON.

I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET THIS BACK, IF EVERYONE SENDS IT, I WILL GET OVER 220 BACK!

I WOULD KNOW YOU SENT IT ON!

Isn't it weird that in AMERICA & AUSTRALIA our flags and our cultures offend so many people, but our benefits don't?

The above was sent to me this morning. I don't know who the original author is.
One thing is for sure, he/she has sense !

Interesting comments Individual- Thanks.

Hi Individual,

I'm inclined to agree with some of your quotes:

"PUT ME IN CHARGE . . .

"Put me in charge of food stamps. No cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away.

"If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

"Put me in charge of Medicaid. Then, we'll test you for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. If you want to use drugs, alcohol, or smoke, then get a job.

"Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair.
Your "home" will be subject to inspections any time and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

"In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you.
We will sell your 22-inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common good."

"Before you write that I've violated your rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary."

Most of us old fellas would go along with much of this. No free passes for able-bodied people.

Joe

Indy said; "I love this one....AND while you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct." I love it as well, because.....

Have you disenfranchised yourself yet? Pensioner welfare is also government subsistence. There is no hypocrite like an old hypocrite.

Indy said; "I love this one.
Paul1405
Where did I say that ?

Indy try here; Posted by individual, Sunday, 18 October 2020 10:49:02 AM.

You sure have some great thumping ideas...THUMP young people, THUMP public servants, THUMP lefties, THUMP women, but you never put up any ideas to THUMP old farts, why is that?

I don't want you disenfranchised, Crazy Clive and the Lovely Pauline need your vote in the up coming Qld election. Gee, I get to vote in that election as well.

Paul1405,
And, people such as you are required to vote by Law.
Time to change the Law !

Paul1405,

Again,
Where did I say that ?