If I hadn't heard it from her own mouth I wouldn't have believed it.

Queensland are revisiting the KRudd stupidity of the school halls fiasco. They have promised to spend a billion dollars we don't have on new facilities for schools.

For gods sake Annastacia, if you can't come up with a useful way to spend a billion dollars, don't borrow it.

..... new facilities for schools.
It hasn't worked in the past so, what makes this Premier think it'll be a good thing now ?
Perhaps it's just some friends & relatives needing a boost for their businesses ?
I would much prefer to spend just a quarter of that to bring in teachers with some common sense !

Hasbeen,
let's pretend Scott Morrison announced that !

A borrowed billion dollars would be best utilized investing in developing productive inland water supply to allow farmers to drought-proof breeder stock and to increase food and fibre exports.

JF Aus,
Such a scheme would be the most bang for a buck ever here ! I fail to see how our bureaudroid experts fail to see that.
It could be one of the longest running projects which, as it goes on, would snow-ball on itself & actually reach a stage within only a few years where it becomes self-funding.
The economic AND environmental benefits would be beyond the wildest imagination of those for whom the time-span is too long a wait for a quick, massive profit. This should be a generational project for decades to come. As more water builds up in the interior the more evaporation/precipitation is guaranteed.
I suppose the only way to make the experts realise the potential of such a scheme is by things going so bad first that the scheme becomes literally the last option. Meanwhile, many people suffer but as long as the bureaudroids get their insane salaries, who cares about the people & the environment !

PSEUDO-individual,

You are starting to sound like an environmental sociologist.

Well done old chap!

An environmental sociologist.

Sounds like the perfect pseudo academics profession for those poor souls who are still trying to sort out their sexuality.

Phil,

Well at least it is better than being an imaginary fighter pilot on an imaginary aircraft carrier.

I can't believe how collapse of world fisheries and loss of pro fishing and amateur fishing tourism livelihood and solutions are still being ignored, while waffle about AGW and now Covid-19 continues.
Solar energy if applied productively can affordably lift sewage wastewater inland instead of dumping it in coastal currents, feeding ALGAE killing seagrass nurseries and GBR coral.
The whole world ocean is in big trouble due to ignorance and political spin.
Under-nutrition among seafood dependent island neighbours of Australia is what brought my attention to opportunities from solutions. Of course this involves social and environment and economic issues, including antibiotic resistent TB among undernourished PNG Torres Strait people, finding it's way southward into Queensland.
1.5 million people die annually with TB, where are the masks for that?
Some people understand how the environment needs to sustain healthy food supply to strengthen immunity against disease.
Have radical environ mental people had such influence to blind everyone?
I can't believe Individual and I are the only clear thinkers remaining?

JF Aus,
> 1.5 million people die annually with TB, where are the masks for that?
Not needed. TB is not very infectious except among people with a vitamin B deficiency, and is treatable.

1.5 million people die annually with TB, where are the masks for that?
Aidan,
There are plenty available everywhere, they're commonly known as condoms !

Aidan,
what I'm getting at with my quip is that the real problem which is over population is not being addressed.
As there are more & more people, more & more viruses wil develop & more & more people will die.
The reason for our population explosion is that the more anti-virus medication is being developed the more people stay alive & have more children. Also, Govts have that silly notion of 'Growth" but what they appear to not realise is that "growth" of the consumer base invariably results in growth of the problems an increased population drags along.
No-one wants to die early including myself but what I have always believed in AND practiced is to not get things at all costs including money & a large mob of children. Why ? because i couldn't come up with the means & irresponsibility of doing so.

JF & Individual,

Yes, projects in which money, technology and nature 'combine' are surely bound to be winners, save for managerial incompetence. A series of dams, reservoirs, pipelines, over that low central Queensland mountain range, to divert water from north-flowing rivers southwards would be a good example. Would it be possible to fit turbines into the piping systems to partly generate electricity to pump the water up-hill when necessary ? or of course, through tunnels.

Watching Michael Portillo's daily SBS program on railways (so it seems), I was struck by a Welsh scheme for moving slate down a hillside, on a double track with no engine: two carts connected by cable; the up-hill cart gets loaded with slate, the brake is carefully turned off so the loaded cart moves down-hill on its track, pulling the other cart up-hill by its weight, on its track. Then it, in turn, gets loaded, back down, etc. Brilliant: technology and nature combined !

I get the idea that there is plenty of water flowing into the Gulf, there'll never be a shortage of it. So as well as draining the low-lying areas along the Gulf coast for more effective utilisation, excess water can be taken over the central range into the southern rivers. So that way, both the north-facing slopes AND the southern areas can be managed and populated. Betoota may flourish again and take its rightful place as the Jewel of Western Queensland !

Joe

If I get this right Loudmouth, it appears you have just invented perpetual motion.

You are going to use turbines to harness the flow of pumped water in a pipe to generate the electricity to pump that water.

Sounds wonderful.

"Watch out Phil! Watch out Phil! Bandit at 12 o'clock high."

Pop pop pop pop pop pop ..........

"Gotcha ya Red Baron. Roger Roger fellows .....job well done ..... let's head back to the carrier."

loudmouth2,

My opinion is that Wet season rain could be harvested high up in the Great Dividing Range in vicinity of the Gregory Range. Taking a controlled amount of water off the top of the catchment with not reduce rain runoff into rivers downstream. A vast amount of water flows wasted into the Gulf of Carpentaria. The high up harvested water could flow southward in aqueduct high up, winding and almost level and following the range contours. Aqueduct need have only a very slight fall. Special deep narrow aqueduct will cause the water to flow because filling to the top of the duct guarantees the water will tumble down all the way to the Murray Darling catchment beginning, inland from Fraser Island Q.

Some Australian east coast rivers also waste vast amounts of water into the ocean. Controlled amounts of that water could also be harvested high on the eastern side of the range and sent by aqueduct tunnels into the main aqueduct on the western side of the range.

Yes, water can be stored and then used in turbines for hydro electric pumping of other water, in round figures, a one metre diameter turbine flow can generate power to run a five-hundred millimeter pump 24/7 until water runs out.
The 500mm pump in conjunction with solar and off peak coal power could take east coast city nutrient loaded wastewater inland for cotton and grazing and drought proofing, to help farmers and exports.

All the aqueduct (except in tunnels) should be steel on steel piles, which would assist the mining and steel industries.
Old gas pipelines and their corridors could be harnessed. New gas pipe could be part of the deal, old gas pipes like moomba to Sydney have already passed their use by date. Inland electric power grids already exist and could be expanded to connect more solar from Auistralia's almost cloudless inland.

individual,

Your view shows hope for the future. Sorry I did not include your name in my reply to loudmoth2. My web connection is not good out here in remote catchment of the Paroo River. I rushed to send while there was signal.

I find some bureaucrats are genuine and helpful while others are not. It is the latter that deter progress by the genuine ones.

As for evaporatiion/precipitation inland, I read a report about the Bradfield scheme that discounted that. The cost of pumping was another problem, whereas anyway I propose aqueduct and no pipes or pumps to transport the main flow into the Murray Darling system.

There is more at the following link (if you have not seen it previously). Note Index F, Fairfax.
http://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20160615042127/http://agwhitepaper.agriculture.gov.au/supporting-information/published-submissions-green-paper

There is more that I have not included. I dont want to feed the bureaudroid consultants too much.

a report about the Bradfield scheme that discounted that.
JF Aus,
The Bradfield Scheme on its own would not impact much but once off the ground, the more water becomes present in the present arid areas, the more precipitation will occur. We already have Lake Argyle in the North & if Lake Eyre & other, smaller basins become permanent, a change is inevitable. As I stated many times before, this must be seen as future planning not as a quick buck investment & that's why this needs to be a Govt project. Private entrepreneurs have no interest in long term, they want their profits now ! More water in the interior will bring prosperity in both economy & environment ! We already have proof that interior Australia once had vast lakes & it it my view it needs them back.
Too much of the ground water has been taken & it's high time we start to replenish it before it gets too low & we also need to take the pressure off the coastal regions.

Pseudo-individual,

I thought Australia had been mostly covered by sea water in its ancient geological past thus explaining the extensive salinity of its soils, except in a few areas like the wheat belt of SW Western Australia.

I understand that flooding the land or vast irrigation will draw the salt more and more to the surface making the land useless for human habitation eg what happened to the ancient civilization of Mesopotamia where Iraq is now just a desert.

Is this what you want to see happen?

will draw the salt more and more to the surface
Mr Opinion,
Freshwater floats on saltwater so, if anything it'd dilute whatever salt is present. I think it would be of far greater benefit to take some money off funding for the Arts , Sport & other unproductive schemes & put it towards irrigation of the interior. All that's needed is to get bureaudroids off their posterior !

Pseudo-individual,

You make me laugh.

Have you ever heard of the lens effect where the salt water displaces the fresh water.

The water then evaporates leaving its salt near the surface.

Continued rising ground water and evaporation makes the soil too salty for farming. Just like what happened in ancient Iraq.

Only way to get rid of the salt is to flush with fresh water.

You are so funny. You really are the true pseudo-individual.

Mr Opinion,
You're the comedian here because you only think of what others let you think. I have some personal experience in that field & I'm talking about a scenario when more water is introduced. Read again, MORE water !
I found these results from personal experimenting , not from someone's thesis.
By more water I'm not talking about some heavy rain every now & then. I'm talking about an adapted to modern day available technology Bradfield scheme. A scheme that delivers more fresh water more frequently.
A scheme that would take the minds of concrete jungle bunnies off drugs & make them experience work, responsibility & satisfaction & above all, make them like to have a purpose in life. Come to think of it, participating would get you with a bit of luck, off your insipid desire to troll every post !
A watering the interior scheme would be the perfect opportunity to match with a National Service scheme. I guarantee it would get more approval from young people than from their silly, selfish parents.
Do some surveys but expect to get some egg in your face when you denounce the proposal !

pseudo-individual.

If you like water so much then how about sticking your head in a bucket of it and counting to one million.

Mr Opinion,
I'd lose against you in the breath holding department because you're a member of the swamp dwellers & probably have already developed gills as you're morphing into a salamander or similarly slimy thing !.

pseudo-individual,

So I take it you are telling us that you are a loser?

I cant believe this Forum can slide completely downhill.

Back onto water.
It's not possible to make grass grow in Australian outback rangeland like growing grass on a lawn.
Drought proofing can involve irritating crops for hay to feed breeding stock so that when rain eventually returns there will be breeding stock on hand to rebuild herds.
Most outback properties have at least a small area of suitable arable land to produce nutritious/quality hay, the key is a reliable small but reasonable amount of non-salty water

JF Aus,

It's on sale at Woolworths for $2 a bottle.

What's that, you want free water? You think free access to fresh water is a human right?

Goodness gracious, next thing you will be wanting free air to breathe!

There's just no pleasing you people.

Mr Opinion,

Who said anything about free?
But now you mention it, since when were drops of rain owned?
Can you answer that simple basic question?

And who is claiming ownership of nutrient polluted city sewage wastewater presently being dumped in rivers and coastal ocean ecosystem currents?

Who owns the English and other national languages presently used without cost to sustain life?

JF Aus,

Exactly.

There are substantial challenges and opportunities that require all of us to work together.
I can't believe such teamwork is not a thematic focus in school curriculum. No wonder some politicians fund non-productive projects with no export potential.
I can't believe inland rail is being developed but not inland water.

http://soilsmatter.wordpress.com/2019/09/15/what-are-sources-of-phosphorus-for-crops/

JF Aus,

My wife's dictum: Look after yourself and forget the rest.

Why on earth would I want to buddy up with a bunch of disparate ethnic groups with whom I have no cultural affinity and no shared history.

I know we are now an Asian nation-state but it is one in which there is no social glue to link all of the disparate groups throughout the country.

Being Australian means nothing more than having a piece of paper with your name on it. In fact one can become an Aussie through a cash-for-visa scam without much trouble or interference from the State.

To Mr Opinion-

"My wife's dictum: Look after yourself and forget the rest.

Why on earth would I want to buddy up with a bunch of disparate ethnic groups with whom I have no cultural affinity and no shared history."

Thanks for your comment above.

Mr Opinion,

I think you have been bunched up with disparit ethnic groups, other human beings, since you were born.

Correction, disparate.
Why come down on Asians anyway? They have been in Australia since the goldfield days.

JF Aus,

I was born long before the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history.

Mr Opinion,
During all your life have Asians ever done harm to you? If so, what?

I don't know about Mr O, but JF Aus, one group of Asians tried pretty hard to kill my father, & killed a lot of his mates in the Pacific.

Another bunch killed more than a few in Malaysia.

Then another couple groups tried to kill a lot of my mates in Korea.

another bunch killed more of us in Vietnam, although they might have been justified.

Anyone who trusts an Asian is a bit soft in the head.

JF Aus and SQ West (aka Hasbeen nee Phil),

The term Asian is really a geographic term not a biogeographic term.

It covers that great land mass reaching from the Black Sea to the Western Pacific and the Arctic Circle to the southern tip of Tasmania.

Australians are now Asians following the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history. We now mirror the greater Asian land mass in terms of its ethnic and cultural diversity. This was engineered by Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business people who wanted to integrate Australia into Asia proper.

To achieve this they needed to 're-populate' Australia with diverse peoples from the Asian mainland and re-structure economic and political relationships that aligned with Asia proper. This has now been achieved.

Both of you need to embrace your Asianess just like I have done.

So to both of you a great big Aussie 'Ni hao mate!"

Hasbeen,

How many countries has China invaded and how many has England invaded?
Remember the Anglo Saxons.

China seems to need it's authoritarian politics to control it's huge population involving warlords.

Anyway in this now overcrowded world there is need for respect and prosperity and peace between all people and all nations.

JF Aus,

Japan
Tibet
Vietnam
Indonesia
Mongolia
Korea

Misopinionated,

Here's a few minutes I'll never get back.

The Mongols over-ran China for a century from around 1280, and from there, tried to invade Japan, Vietnam and Java. They got their arses kicked each time.

The Manchus (Mongol-related groups) invaded China around 1644 and forced tributary status on many neighbouring areas, such as Tibet, Burmese kingdoms, central Asian kingdoms, Korea and possibly Mongolia. Their control over Taiwan dates only from the nineteenth century - before its invasion by Japan in 1895.

The Mongols were not Chinese. The Manchus were not Chinese. In fact, home-grown Chinese dynasties have ruled China for barely half of the last millenium, up to the current dynasty.

It's possible that even the Mings who ruled in between the Mongols and the Manchus, roughly from 1368 until 1644 - were influenced, at least, by central Asian and even by Manichaean-Christian ideologies. They were certainly more outgoing, more interested (at least for a very short time) in the outside world, than other Chinese dynasties.

Can you name a single historical nation (or part of a current nation) - say, Denmark, Andorra, Luxembourg maybe; Laos, Angkor, Mataram, Bashkiristan; Kerala; Sri Lanka; Bolivia, Argentina, Uruguay - which has NOT attempted to invade any other country ? Even Denmark, I'd be doubtful about.

It's in the nature of emerging states, for most of human history, to want to expand at the expense of their neighbours. Check out James C. Scott's 'Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States'.

Make that fifteen minutes.

Joe

pseudo-mouth,

I'm sure we have debated this point before.

I include the Yuan Dynasty founded by Kublai Khan in 1271 as Chinese, which preceded the 1280 date you just gave above.

If you had studied history at a university you would have developed a critical mind on the topic and would have been in a position to work things out instead of relying on your usual cut and paste knowledge you glean from Wikipedia, etc.

But kudos for having an interest in the Arts things and the guts to give it a go.