No outrage for white South African farmers who are being shot and raped at will. Sometimes in front of their children. So many of the woke marching for the violent marxist blm's but ignore real crime. Doesn't fit the sick leftie narrative! Where is the outcry?

https://www.news.com.au/world/africa/farmer-killings-farmers-tortured-and-killed-in-horrific-south-africa-raids/news-story/1aae3fe47328ada3b6a3d369675877df

400 attacks since 2017. Several murders each week. Where is the UN? Where are Western governments? Oh, right. It's only black lives that matter. The white farmers are just getting a taste of their own medicine. Is that it? Well, there are any amount of white people thinking that. What sort of creatures sit back while their own kind are being slaughtered because they are white? The ABC and Green types; Socialists who assume that they will never be on the receiving end of violence. The sort that think that blacks and other non-whites will leave them alone because they hate their own kind. They won't.

Farm violence has long plagued South Africa.

In 1998 then President Nelson Mandela told a summit
on rural safety and security:

" The government deplores the cold-bloodied killings
that have taken place on the farms in the past few years.
While killings on farms like crime in general have been
a feature of South African life for many decades, the
incidents of murder and assault on farming areas have
increased dramatically in recent years".

Between 2001 and 2014 the country's human rights commission
conducted 3 inquiries into human rights violations in
farming communities.

The ABC has done numerous series on the killings of
white South Africans for several years, including
the recent one of five days ago. "Foreign Correspondent"
had a feature on the subject.

The following link has more on the subject:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45336840

cont'd ...

There's more at the following link from
the RMIT Fact Check:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-05/fact-check-were-400-white-south-african-farmers-murdered-year/9591724

There's more at this link:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-05/fact-check-were-400-white-south-african-farmers-murdered-year/9591724

Killing of any innocent person(s), white or black is to be deplored. There is no justification for murder, on the pretext its payback for past wrongs. runner, ttbn, there is no argument from me, if white farmers are being murdered in South Africa as you claim, I would not condone that outrage.

There you go runner. News just in from the purveyor of truth and justice, Chief Justice of the foxes lair; it’s all a conspiracy theory.

There were actually only fifty nine white farmers brutally butchered to death and strung up on poles to bleed out, while their wives and children were tortured and raped by black gangs. Stop exaggerating!

Dan

another good national example to confirm why my parents made the right decision to come to Australia.

Sure glad they did not go to South Africa.

as you claim,
Paul1405,
You've given yourself away with this one !

The Murder Count is about 48 - 65 p/a of farmers and workers since 1998. Not the 59 total Diver Dan purports.

Many black farmers and their workers are also victims of violent attacks. The term has no formal legal definition, but such attacks have been the subject of discussion by media and public figures in South Africa and abroad. There is insufficient data to reliably estimate a murder rate for South African farmers. South African government data indicated between 54 and 74 murders on farms annually in the period 2015–2019, and 48-64 during 2010 - 2014; out of an annual murder count of 20,000 total murders in South Africa; these figures are broadly consistent with figures collected by the Transvaal Agricultural Union (TAU), a farmers' union. Due to the problems associated with counting the number of South African farmers and farm murders, it is unclear whether farmers are at greater risk of being murdered than other South Africans.

Data released by the South African government in 2018 showed that the number of farm attacks had increased between 2012 and 2018, but that the number of murders on farms had decreased year by year during the period. During the same year farming organisation AgriSA reported on police statistics which suggested that the murder rate on farms had declined to the lowest level in 20 years, to a third of the level recorded in 1998.

Unsubstantiated claims that such attacks on farmers disproportionately target whites are a key element of the white genocide conspiracy theory and have become a common talking point among white nationalists worldwide. There are no reliable figures that suggest that white farmers are being targeted in particular or that they are at a disproportionate risk of being killed. The Government of South Africa …

Read more on Wikipedia
Wikipedia · Text under CC-BY-SA license

Josephus

Are you for real?

Your entire text relied on SA Government figures. Have a think about that one, while I chuckle away to myself.

Dan

Farm violence has long plagued South Africa.
They are violent crimes including murder, rape,
assault, robbery. However the full picture needs
to be presented because attacks target not only
white farmers but farm workers who are usually
black and there are many black farmers and their
workers who are also victims of violent attacks.

There are no reliable figures that suggest white
farmers are being targeted in particular or that
they are at a disproportionate risk of being killed.

Analysts and international human rights organisations
maintain that farm attacks are part of a broader
crime problem in South Africa and do not have a racial
motivation.

In any case, it is horrific and nobody is condoning it.

Dear Josephus,

Thank you for the information.

Has any one else noticed that every time an African country goes from white rule to black rule, law & order collapses.

You only have to look at the hate on the faces of the leaders of the BLM protests/riots in the US to see that racism is more prevalent in that community than any other.

Yes Chris Lewis, you ear very lucky in your families choice. In the 80s I ran a division of a company with an ex South African general manager. He was a quiet thoughtful, & very clever man. He told me he really hated abandoning the country of his birth, but as a family man he could not justify staying in the catastrophe he saw developing, the danger for his kids was too great.

It is a great pity that these countries drive out the very people they need to advance conditions for all.

"Analysts and international human rights organisations
maintain that farm attacks are part of a broader
crime problem in South Africa and do not have a racial
motivation.

In any case, it is horrific and nobody is condoning it"
Foxy.

Foxy, do you really believe that rubbish? What else would you expect from such a source?

I guess you have to try to convince yourself it is true, or suffer a huge blow to your ideology. The first requirement for enlightenment is to accept facts. That is the only way to the truth.

South Africa‘s parliament has passed a motion that leads to the seizure of land from white farmers without paying them compensation.

Passed by an overwhelming majority of 241 votes to 83 votes against, the proposal to amend Section 25 of the constitution would allow expropriation of land without any financial recompense.

It was put forward by the radical left Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) party, whose leader Julius Malema told the country's parliament: “We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land.”

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-12/white-south-african-farmers-say-theyr

Every night, local farmers go on patrol around Bela Bela in South Africa's Limpopo province. Armed and wearing bulletproof vests, they cover more than 160 square kilometres.

Chris Esterhuizen says they have little faith in the police, so they look after themselves.

"You wait four or five hours for the police to come out to assist you. So, we decided to do a neighbourhood watch in our area," he said.

By day, Mr Esterhuizen runs a local taxidermy business. He is always armed, even in the workshop.

He's determined to stay in South Africa, but the fear of being attacked is taking a big emotional toll.

"I think there are guys who want to leave everything. But I don't think it's so easy. You put your whole life — sorry, this is taking me very seriously. You can't leave this place. Really," he said.

According to police figures, 71 people were murdered on South African farms in the year to March 2017.

But farming group Afriforum says that figure does not reflect the full extent of the violence faced by its members.

However armed blacks take it upon themselves to seize land by threatening farmers, as they believe the Government has sanctioned them recovering land from farms.

This news about what is happening in South Africa is absolutely disgraceful.

Send in the Chinese. That'll fix 'em!

There, problem solved. I don't know what all the fuss was about.

Even better, we can let all of black Africans come to Australia and be part of the growing Australian African community of western Melbourne.

It's the multicultural thing to do. I'm sure Foxy and FOULmouth would be on board with that.

Dear Hassie,

I'm not trying to convince myself or anyone else
of anything.
I am simply providing information on what's
available online regarding the complex
and horrific situation that exists in South Africa.

Agriculture and safety experts are the ones who claim
that farm attacks are in the vast majority mostly
driven by economic gain. White farmers appear to be
more heavily affected but this may be because they have
more wealth in the areas where they live.

The long term effects of farm attacks and murder also
appear to be lasting with farms attacked taking up to
five years to recover and of course levels of anxiety
increasing in farming communities where they occur.

It's a dreadful situation and the brutality is attributed
to the isolated settings in which they occur.

All very frightening.

Foxy reads the drivel instead of the fact. "Agriculture and safety experts are the ones who claim that farm attacks are in the vast majority mostly driven by economic gain."

It is the belief in the minds of Black gangs that farmland was stolen from them by white settlers, so they are now sanctioned to threaten and murder the occupiers, as this will improve their economic situation.

The fact is the farmers originally brought the land and developed it and employed locals to work with them on the farms. To paint the picture as merely economic, does not identify the situation facing the production of the farms. Farmers are not just sitting on land producing no income and not adding to the economy of South Africa. They Are!

SAPS statistics indicate that there were 80 attacks between January and March 2020.
A further 48 were reported between April and June of this year.
A total of 128 farm attacks have been reported in the first six months of 2020. This time last year, the number was just 13 – meaning that rural crimes have surged ten-fold.

Dear Josephus,

You think I read drivel?

Actually, I prefer fact-checking with reputable sources.

How about you?

The white farmers for some inexplicable reason fail to invoke the sympathy of the Leftist elite.
Were they anything but white & with a criminal record, most of Academia & Hollywood would fall gay-butt over backwards to crowd fund their funerals.

Joseph Pulitzer said:

"We must illuminate dark places and, with a deep
sense of responsibility, interpret these
troubled times".

http://www.pulitzercenter.org/reporting/myth-white-genocide

Individual,

Sympathy should not be restricted to just one colour.
It should be colour blind and extended to all.

Reading the link Foxy posted:
"I wasn’t in South Africa long before I got used to being handed a phone with an image called up of, say, a best friend shot point-blank in the back of the head, or a 73-year-old father beaten to the point that his skull was pulled off his brain like tortilla chips. There are massive WhatsApp chains and Facebook groups that share these kinds of photos, and to scroll through them is enough to turn you paranoid and almost frantic. You get accustomed to the bloody photos, but the dark part is how hard it is to understand the attacks: Why would people force children to watch their mother’s gang-rape, creep up to shoot an old couple as they sleep in bed, force a 12-­year-­old into a bathtub and drown him in boiling water?

It’s a simple fact that there is an element of racial vitriol to some murders of white farmers. One recent attack came two months after vandals painted the words “Kill the Boer,” which is the title of a favorite song of Malema’s, on the door of the victims’ farmhouse. The attacks are often elaborately and senselessly violent. But farmers are only one of a broad host of people in South Africa who are at a high risk of being murdered."

This is written by a NY Journalist as an opinion article, and claims genocide of white farmers is a myth.

'Sympathy should not be restricted to just one colour.
It should be colour blind and extended to all.'

then try holding up a sign saying all lives matters at the violent marxist blm's rallies Foxy. Instead they want to destroy cities and assualt people on the basis of someone overdosing on drugs like George Floyd.

Hasn't anyone noticed the echo of Zimbabwi ?
After the attacks on farms there and their abandonment the country
went down down down.
Now there is not enough room on their currency for the zeros.
The white farmers there warned that the blacks after years of working
on the farms had learnt nothing and after the white farmers left the
country starved.

Either the blacks are incapable of running farms or they are just not interested.
The women are the main farmers which explains why the continent has
had a population explosion and forced the immigration surge to Europe.

Dear Josephus,

Is that all you got out of the link I gave?

And BTW - the author's article and link is from
Harper's Magazine.

James Pogue is a writer based in Los Angeles. He HAS
written for the New Yorker and the New York Times
Magazine and Granta and the Lon don Review of Books.
This article however is from as stated earlier -
Harper's Magazine and should be read in its entirety
and in context.

All I can do is provide links. Unfortunately I can't
interpret them for you.

runner, George Floyd did not die from an overdose.
He was killed by a police officer.

Bazz,

My understanding of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe is that the black farm workers were skilled, were treated well by their white farmer employers and lived on-farm, and productivity was very high - with full food security in the country and valuable food exports.

Mugabe instructed his war veterans to go and take back their stolen heritage - just as has now been decreed by idiot politicians/Marxists in S.A. - and in Zimbabwe not only were the white farmers killed etc, but their black farm workers were also killed or run off.

Farms left to ruin in uncaring and incapable idiot hands. Typical.
Hence, famine in Zimbabwe, and Mugabe with a Town House in Regents Park.

S.A. post Mandela with massive ghettos, criminal gangs, and ordinary folk having to form vigilante groups to protect themselves and their families and little stores and stalls trying to eke out a meagre existence.

Where's the U.N? (Busy housing refugees/victims from Libya, Syria, etc
with no attempt at homeland rehabilitation after the failed Arab Spring, bleeding-hearts ferrying adventure-seekers to Lesbos, and Europe inheriting the foreign-aid failures of 100 years.)

So very, very sad.

George Floyd did not die from an overdose.
He was killed by a police officer.
Foxy,
What was it with his behaviour that drew the attention of the Police ? Was he he just window shopping when they grabbed him for no reason ?
Or, was in in his pyjamas trying to report a crime like Justine Damont ?

Salty, you could not find two leaders that were so dissimilar, Robert Mugabe and Nelson Mandela. Mandela was everything good that Mugabe was bad, Mandela a true leader for all his countrymen. Despite the tremendous obstacles faced by South Africa post apartheid Mandela strove for peaceful reconciliation between black and white, forgiveness with the setting aside of past injustices was a key part of the Mandela philosophy. Unfortunately colonialism left Africa with only the one Mandela, and too many Mugabe's. Leaders ill-equipped to deal with independence in a modern world. So many came to power offering hope, only to fail at the first obstacle, in an environment of hate and greed. A patched worked continent filled with artificial boarders imposed by past colonial powers, poor "countries" overtaken by tribalism with no resources to build truly peaceful modern societies in a 21st century world. Unfortunately Mandela was only Mandela, today Africa is in need of a dozen or more Nelson Mandela's.

P/s In the very early days I though Robert Mugabe did offer the possibility of peaceful leadership for Zimbabwe, and he could help in building a great Zimbabwean nation. Despite the ills left behind by colonialism there was a reasonable expectation that through Mugabe's leadership Zimbabwe would become an exception, and be a democratic peaceful and prosperous society for the Zimbabwean people, sadly that was not the case.

Paul1405,

If Saltpetre thinks Mugabe is some sort of role model then it wouldn't surprise me if he has a big portrait of Idi Amin mounted on the wall at home.

Mr O, you think leadership has sunk to an all time low, and then in comes Idi. Gee, what was it, the solution to the countries lack of money was simple according to Idi, print more money. The Finance Minister tried to point out that was not a good idea, Idi responded with "Whose image in on the Ugandan shilling Finance Minister!"...:"Yours excellency"...."what is the problem!"....."I'll turn on the printing presses immediately your excellency."

Paul1405,

He didn't have a choice, Either do what Idi Amin said to do or ge chopped up into hundreds of little pieces as a warning to the next Finance Minister.

Hmmm ....... food for thought: What if we get the Reserve Bank to put Scott Morrison's head on our banknotes and wait and see what happens?

MO,

"If Saltpetre thinks Mugabe is some sort of role model..."

What sort of skewed magic-mirror can you be reading from?
Upside down, back to front, head in your ...?

Get a grip, MO, before they have to run you off to the funny farm.

Saltpetre,

Don't you think Mugabe is some sort of role model?

You could have fooled me.

MO,

In your ear.

What are you smoking?

Zimbabwe just gave the rest of the World a glimpse of what the future will hold if we insist on letting Left orientated "experts" make decisions !

individual,

If my understanding is correct that Zimbabwe is well and truly in the pocket of the Chinese then you would be absolutely correct to claim it is leftist.

On this point you are being quite observant for a pseudo-intellectual.

Keep up the good work.

Your bestest friend, Mr Opinion.

And just imagine what would happen if the right ran the world; say like President Trump.

To suggest the right is right, and the left is pathetic, it just a wee bit simplistic.

Chris Lewis,

Please keep in mind that Scott Morrison, who is looking more smug each day, thinks that Trump is a great man.

To suggest the right is right, and the left is pathetic, it just a wee bit simplistic.
Chris Lewis,
Taking the obvious evidence into consideration to suggest otherwise is just plain wooden-headed !

when you see what is happening in south Africa, and recognise that Trump won because of major dissatisfaction with US policy trends, you may even consider the reality of problem years ahead for liberal democracies.

Nevertheless, my love of liberal democracy remains as the political system most capable of finding the right balance between the strength and weaknesses of left and right policy perspectives.

It is just that the solutions have got a whole lot harder.

..... problem years ahead for liberal democracies.
Chris Lewis,
There's no doubt of that happening because people will not learn by seeing pain inflicted on others, they do occasionally learn after they felt some of the pain themselves !

Please tell us Chris, when one has actually succeeded in improving anyone's life, other than their elites.

Phil,

What planes did you fly and which aircraft carrier did you serve on when you were in the navy?

Hi Hasbenn,

well if you at the history of European and Australian history, you will find that absolute poverty has largely gone.

Even when Australia supposedly had the highest income per capita in the world, in late 19th century, many ran around with no shoes and lived a miserable existence.

Pluralism, which protects rights of all individuals and interest groups through rule of law and freedom of association, has helped ensure that wealth is spread a bit more evenly.

And since you asked me the question, what political system do you advocate?

Hasbeen, obviously liberal democracy working in corrupt and/or poorer countries, including south africa with its history, is always going to be that much harder.

But, where there is a will, there should be a way.

The rule of law has to exist and be upheld.

In a way, holding on to my faith in liberal democracy is an ideal, perhaps dreamland, but that it what I choose to hold on to in this competitive world.

I don't believe in God, but I do believe in humanity and the ideal of liberal democracies being necessary to aid the prospect of a less hostile world.

Liberalism won't guarantee a better world, but I strongly believe it is our best hope.

sorry about grammar, me bad and always rush to much.

Too much to do.

in corrupt and/or poorer countries
Chris Lewis,
In a nutshell, it's happening everywhere because greed is everywhere.
There's no chance in Hell that a liberal Democracy could ever function with the Tax systems in place. People will never be content when those with less effort receive more than those who are burdened by the former. People don't object to paying Tax, what they object to is the crooked playing field of Tax bracketing/loopholes.
The only way for achieving what we call a liberal democracy is to have the same tax rate for all & above all, reduce the insane salaries of Public Service senior bureaucrats.
I heard on ABC Radio this morning where such a stark example was discussed from Lebanon.
A Sudanese woman who worked for a Lebanese Police officer as a house keeper, was sexually abused by him, did not get paid for a year & then dumped her on the steps of her Embassy.
Similar scenario play out here in Australia at the hands of senior bureaucrats & foreign businesses operating here.
Take the COVID-19 situation for example. Tens of thousands of Australian residents have lost everything they worked for whilst Public Servants incl in the ABC & SBS & a number of other public institutions had merely to contend with restricted movement. No financial losses whatsoever, on the contrary, since they couldn't spend, their savings increased dramatically !
That doesn't sound all that liberally democratic to me !

I agree, APS and govt workers are hardly suffering.

I am lucky as in the government sector as part of a big contractor

Chris Lewis said "Liberalism won't guarantee a better world, but I strongly believe it is our best hope."

Answer- I disagree. There are fundamental issues with Liberalism or rather Locke Liberalism that cause accelerating issues such as the finite world problem, cohesion, over-governing, centralization of power, waste, complexity,...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Criticism_and_support

Roman Catholic Church- "One of the most outspoken critics of liberalism was the Roman Catholic Church,[193] which resulted in lengthy power struggles between national governments and the Church."

Conservatives- "In the same vein, conservatives have also attacked what they perceive to be the reckless liberal pursuit of progress and material gains, arguing that such preoccupations undermine traditional social values rooted in community and continuity.[194]

Liberal Conservatives (Economic Liberals/ Free Traders)- However, a few variations of conservatism, like liberal conservatism, expound some of the same ideas and principles championed by classical liberalism, including "small government and thriving capitalism"."

Social democracy- "an ideology advocating progressive modification of capitalism, emerged in the 20th century and was influenced by socialism."

Christian democracy- "Another movement associated with modern democracy, Christian democracy, hopes to spread Catholic social ideas and has gained a large following in some European nations.[197] The early roots of Christian democracy developed as a reaction against the industrialisation and urbanisation associated with laissez-faire liberalism in the 19th century.[198] "

Scholars- "Despite these complex relationships, some scholars have argued that liberalism actually "rejects ideological thinking" altogether, largely because such thinking could lead to unrealistic expectations for human society.[199]"

Fascists- "accuse liberalism of materialism and a lack of spiritual values.[200] In particular, fascism opposes liberalism for its materialism, rationalism, individualism and utilitarianism.[201] Fascists believe that the liberal emphasis on individual freedom produces national divisiveness,[200] but many fascists agree with liberals in their support of private property rights and a market economy."

Scholars- "have praised the influence of liberal internationalism, claiming that the rise of globalisation "constitutes a triumph of the liberal vision that first appeared in the eighteenth century" while also writing that liberalism is "the only comprehensive and hopeful vision of world affairs".[202]"

President Putin- "According to Russian President Vladimir Putin, as reported in the Financial Times, "liberalism has become obsolete". He claims that the vast majority of people in the world oppose multiculturalism, immigration, and rights for people who are LGBT."

http://lawaspect.com/weakness-of-liberalism/

http://www.e-ir.info/2018/12/11/out-of-illusion-weakness-liberalism-and-its-blind-spots/

It seems that "Scholars" have a lot to say and appear to disregard the concerns of other stakeholders perhaps arrogantly assuming that they have a monopoly on the truth and perhaps for the reasons that the reason they believe in Locke Liberalism is because they perceive it benefits their self interest.

CM, so what do you think is our best hope?

so what do you think is our best hope?
Chris Lewis,
Are you asking Canem Malum re the best hope for Academics or society in general ?
In my opinion, if Academia concentrated on sincerity & integrity, it'd have no problems at all to gain the admiration they so desperately seek !
Ordinary people respect true scholars & professionals & they do recognise them when they see one.
It's the half-baked BA flashers who give the good ones a bad reputation. I just hope the good ones work on a system to distance themselves from the Govt funding bludgers !

Chris Lewis said-
"CM, so what do you think is our best hope?"

Answer-

Good question.

I don't have all the answers.

The biggest problem is there are too many people- this needs to be changed- especially in certain irresponsible countries.

But for me the best solution in a (few) word is Traditionalism/ Parochialism/ Familialism. It's a system that has lasted for perhaps millions of years through the stone ages.

The reasons for these conclusions is based on the work of Desmond Morris- The Human Zoo, Confucist/ Japanese/ Western scholars and history, Plato- Republic, Aristotle- Politics, Patrick Deneen, John Locke, Gibbon, Roman/ Catholic philosophy, the science of complexity, computer programming, group behavior in animals, economics, business theory, many many others.

A summary of some of the ideas...

Desmond Morris- The Human Zoo- says that humanity has gone from a tribe to a super-tribe and this doesn't work.

Confucism/ Platonism- the family is the essential autonomous atom of the hierarchy of society.

Xunzi/ Aristotle- say that mankind needs to be taught virtue. Virtue needs to be built into society for stability.

Plato's Republic- Describes creating civilizations from green fields. And the requirements for stability.

Roman/ Catholic- Early federal systems/ autonomous rule.

Patrick Deneen/ Alexis de Tocqueville.

There needs to be an enforced balance between self sufficiency (self power) and cooperation (group power). Most of the power should be held at the bottom of the pyramid.

Essentially extended family groups occupy positions within the pyramid of power- stable successful virtuous groups improve their position in society in each generation of service.

A family that has land and is wise in it's use, protects it's land, help's and trades with it's neighbour's within reason, doesn't interfere with others, lives close to people like themselves, doesn't need constant validation- doesn't really need much government.

My answer is Traditionalism/ Parochialism/ Familialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familialism

Individual,

I am talking society in general.

I believe liberal democracy does give all individuals and interest groups the most opportunity to influence the policy mix in a pragmatic way though freedom of association, a free press and elections.

Whether the outcome or trend is towards a lesser or greater role for government, will be the will of the society.

In liberal democracies, we have seen both trends emerge and dissipate during the last 70 years, as it will be in the future.

Most importantly, the outcomes will be legitimised by the make up of a liberal democracy and the will of the people

Chris Lewis said-

Most importantly, the outcomes will be legitimised by the make up of a liberal democracy and the will of the people

Answer-

As ABC journalist Josh Szeps on Late Night Live said in his interview with Patrick Deneen- The Death of Liberalism "when anyone challenges an orthodoxy as widespread as liberalism people are going to find it difficult to swallow".

Other quotes from the interview...

There is a connection between the things that obsess the political right and the political left- (Liberalism vs Traditionalism. Both left and right have traditional beliefs).

Whether the left or right win the argument the solution is more liberalism.

The solution for many lies in our extension of our control over nature rather than take responsibility and controlling our own lives.

The liberal order would collapse in the absence of a growth economy due to the massive inequalities that the liberal order creates (a world liberal universal order will create the biggest hierarchy with the vast number of powerless people at the bottom).

Liberalism can't work in a finite world.

What is the solution? Discipline of consumption discipline of ordering ourselves around smaller communities. What would it take to allow people to control their own fates.

The future is unwritten.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/the-death-of-liberalism/9380788

In small communities Liberal Democracy isn't really required perhaps.

I understand Chris that you are well educated (as I understand you're a professor from western Canada from memory) by I'm not sure that your understanding of the history and functioning of "Liberal Democracy" is the same as mine. This makes me question where you have got your information- ie. where you have been indoctrinated- everyone's indoctrinated but there are ways of seeing through your own sides propaganda.

In a sense adding the word "liberal" to "democracy" seems to have additional perhaps in some cases undesirable consequences.

Generally I dislike the word "legitimized" as it implies the validation of a paradigm that isn't inherently valid. In a sense many things are not as clear as some would like them to be. In engineering things are more clear perhaps. Some seek to "legitimize" by artifice.

The "will of the people" is an interesting concept that at first glance appears valid.

At the end of the day the institutions (including the government) will try to "legitimize" whatever it can get away with. Many things are complex in the biological and social spaces and there isn't one right way to do things. It's a matter of priorities and beliefs and culture.

Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason" the "four fold root of reason" perspective seems useful here.

I've come to the belief that at some point it comes down to cultural tradition.

This is analogous to the evolution of the Philosophy of Science through Popper (Falsifibility), Kuhn (Majority of practitioners), Feyerabend (Existential Subjective Science).

The universalists of course believe that everyone should follow the same set of rules within a universal hierarchy- probably because they have contrived a position above the bottom of the hierarchy. Some such as the communists believe that tyranny begins with culture so they seek to create a blank slate. Schopenhauer (and John Locke father of Liberal Democracy) also believed in the "tabula rasa" paradigm. Interesting that Nietzsche being the intellectual progeny of Schopenhauer in a sense is so much reviled by the so called left. I've taken a Nietzsche's lead on coming to the conclusion that much is subjective perspicacity. The same is true of academics- they find it hard to get out of the office.

In some cases cultures are incompatible (probably all cases) and just need to stay on their own side of the fence. Over time perhaps the world's peoples will come closer together. There are those that want change there are those that don't- why is change inherently better than not?- it isn't- it's a rhetorical device.

Satire- Those that believe in change should not live in the past- stability is the new good.

So for me just because something has become "legitimized doesn't make it right".

The biggest problem is too many people.

CM, I am no professor.

I have a PhD, and have worked at a few Australian universities.

And I can tell you I am no expert on political theory. I am more an observer of policy trends.

I will provide some of my pieces, so you can see where I am coming from in terms of trying to be balanced.

This is based on my PHD.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1467-8500.2007.00516.x

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10361140903296602?src=recsys&journalCode=cajp20

Chris Lewis said-
I will provide some of my pieces, so you can see where I am coming from in terms of trying to be balanced. This is based on my PHD.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1467-8500.2007.00516.x

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10361140903296602?src=recsys&journalCode=cajp20

Answer-

Thanks for providing these links to your research- hopefully I will read it today- I might take a while to understand it. I was able to obtain the first article but only the citation for the second. I'll have to also read some material from Prof Keith Dowding to get a good overview of your context. You do work in the Political Science Department so you would have at least some background in the corpus.

My implication of bias wasn't only focused on yourself- everybody's biased- indoctrinated- but one would hope that across the faculty and universities there would be a breadth of opinion- seemingly lacking. Dissenting academics such as Drew Fraser have been cancelled- Jordan Peterson lectures accompanied by violent protests- this reflects on the credibility of the university system as a whole- and it's future.

A far cry from an image of "The Young Ladies and Gentlemen of Universities"- savages.

I admire your brevity and humility