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The Forum > General Discussion > Trump calls US war dead

Trump calls US war dead

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Trumps comments shock even usually pro-Trump Fox News.

The Guardian, 5 September 2020, reports http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/05/trump-fox-news-journalist-jennifer-griffin-soldiers-losers

"Other outlets confirmed the news and detailed more incidents of Trump’s insulting attitude to American soldiers.

Among those was the Fox News national security correspondent, Jennifer Griffin, who confirmed in a Twitter thread [here http://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1301975321495973889 ] that Trump called soldiers “suckers”, [and that Trump] had questioned why anyone would want to become a soldier and [Trump] had not wanted to honor war dead at the Aisne-Marne cemetery in France.

Amid furious denials of the story from the White House and Trump allies, Griffin’s reporting probably touched a nerve as it came from the usually reliably pro-Trump Fox News, whose conservative leanings and pro-Trump opinion show hosts are reliable cheerleaders for the president."

Trump has lost much of his "Base" conservative vote after these latest shockers.

How low can Trump stoop?
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 September 2020 1:59:00 PM
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So Trump calls US war dead "LOSERS" and "SUCKERS"

Trump doesn't care. The dead can't vote.

Checkout this 2 minute Youtube http://youtu.be/2azjwKxwotk
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 September 2020 3:41:13 PM
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plantagenet

yeah we know all about anonymous sources sources. Russia hoax, Ukraine hoax, Chinavirus hoax, Bubba Wallace, Jussie Smollet,

we know Trump hates old people, hates young people, hates veterans, hates hipsanics, hates blacks

can you believe the lying liberal left media backed by the likes of our own lying abc could be so juvenile.

Obviously you must be a deplorable if you don't believe Weistein/Epsteins/democrats.
Posted by runner, Monday, 7 September 2020 4:01:39 PM
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Regarding Plantagenet's twitter link. Interesting.

The youtube link is saying that Trump denied it.

I guess we had to expect these sort of tactics leading up to the US elections.

It seems to come at a time when Biden's ratings are under threat.

The Communists are on the record for calling all wars- racist wars- class wars- etc- so I guess they think that those that fight in these racist wars are also racist, etc. Not that they didn't fight or arm when it suited their ideology. (I remember someone getting a quick dry cement milk shake in the face in Sydney- not to mention Stalin/ Mao and others).

This was especially true for returning Vietnam Vets being pelted by Communist eggs on their return to America.

http://lancasteronline.com/news/vietnam-veterans-look-back-with-pride/article_eee76a53-14e9-5a12-8a59-59f9c55ca78d.html

http://vva.org/books-in-review/fiction/vietnam-viet-bloody-nam-by-davide-a-cottone/

I'm not sure how Fox News Jennifer Griffin fits into this broad story.

And why Trump's claimed advisors are saying these things whether they are true or not- what the context was etc.

Trump is known to say things to see how people react.

I think in this case Trump understands the need for borders and protectors of America's interests- his actions speak louder than any words.

But issues are often not as simple as they are made out.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 7 September 2020 4:32:34 PM
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runner,

Did you know that Trump's grandfather Fred started the family in the hotel business by building and operating the best whore houses in Skagway during the Klondike gold rush?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 7 September 2020 4:44:33 PM
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Hi Pete,

Nothing that man does can surprise me anymore.
We're way past that point.

And his comments are nothing new.

I remember Trump's attacks on the
former navy pilot, the late US Republican Senator from
Arizona, John McCain. Trump attacked the former navy
pilot over his military career which included 5 years
as a wounded, tortured, prisoner of war in Vietnam -
for which he received a slew of decorations including -
the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, and 3 Bronze Stars.

Yet Mr Trump with his serial deferments who did not serve
in the military had the audacity to say that Mr McCain
was "a war hero (only) because he was captured", adding
" I like people that weren't captured".

Not only were these comments hurtful to Sen. McCain and
his family, but to other veterans and their families.
John McCain died on Saturday August 25 2018.
Mr Trump was not invited to the funeral.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 7 September 2020 4:53:28 PM
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'runner,

Did you know that Trump's grandfather Fred started the family in the hotel business by building and operating the best whore houses in Skagway during the Klondike gold rush?'

pretty bad heh Mr O but compared with Clintons/democrats partnership with Epstein and Weinstein, well you make the choice. One day you will wake up to the fact that you also came from Adam which is a pretty corrupt family line unless of course you believe your ancestors were animals.
Posted by runner, Monday, 7 September 2020 4:55:35 PM
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Trump is a coward and a grub, Americans should expect this kind of thing from such a low life.

runner, hate to shatter your illusion, but there was no Adam and Eve, its all part of the fairy tail book The Bible. They made it all up to fool gullible people like you.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 7 September 2020 5:15:40 PM
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Dear Paul,

Morality is doing what is right regardless of
what you're told.

Religion is doing what you're told regardless of
what is right.

Some people don't know the difference between
the two.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 7 September 2020 5:23:37 PM
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Hi Foxy

Yes, it should even surprise the Trump-osaurs how Trump doesn't see the money in those who die serving their country or POWs.

John McCain was a loyal Republican and American for years while Trump was loyal to no-one but Trump.

Granted Trump has done much for Putin, Russia Inc and fascist gunmen on American streets, but Trump should try being Presidential at least for for the voter's sake.
__________________________

See Then-presidential candidate John McCain being man enough to say even his political

opponent in 2008, Barack Obama, was "a decent, family man." http://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk
____________________________

runner

Try as yee might you're not wealthy or pro-Russian enough for Trump to have heard of you. Trump the philanderer doesn't worry about moral people.
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 September 2020 5:26:06 PM
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don't you love the way the regressives dream up lies in their heads, have it promoted through the lying left liberal media and then are naive (sorry deceitful) enough to think everyone is as dumb as themselves wetting their pants over lies that might sway a voter or two. The swamp has no end of Smollets, Wallaces, Covington kid accusers, underprivileged millionare nba players, ignorant uni Professors and marxist haters of the US.
Posted by runner, Monday, 7 September 2020 5:50:13 PM
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I'm so sick of the Trump bashing by the loony left that I no longer take any notice of their rants. Trump denys it and only the loony left would believe the filthy Guardian.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 7 September 2020 6:33:27 PM
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Trump did not attend John McCain's funeral.
And I suppose The New York Times and the
US media are all also "filthy" liars.

Dear oh dear!
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 7 September 2020 6:53:26 PM
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The US war dead can't vote but their families
certainly can!
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 7 September 2020 6:54:10 PM
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People who start such gossip should be tried for Treason ! They're no better than Assange !
Posted by individual, Monday, 7 September 2020 7:24:49 PM
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Hi ttbn and runner

To cheer you here are two sound Commentators from Washington DC

AND

New York, totally demolishing Trump's defence of his mouth http://youtu.be/G-wBJYRQzE4?t=9m5s

The source of this new evidence against Trump is (Goldberg) a veteran journalist, above reproach.

The matter is raised now (less than 2 months before November 3rd) in the great US, and indeed Australian, traditions of get the candidates with true facts.
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 September 2020 7:39:10 PM
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the funniest post on olo is that of Foxy. She supported believe all women. Such a fine example isn't she
Posted by runner, Monday, 7 September 2020 8:29:34 PM
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The New York Times, like the Guardian, has a leftist bias as does most of the American MSM. The MSM worlwide has a left wing bias. All anti-Trump. All anti freedom of speech. And, this is where the ignorant, batshite loony leftists get their information, some of it spewed out on Online Opinion.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 7 September 2020 9:33:58 PM
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Fatigued by Trump's continued existence? Well there's more.

A Trump win is not only to maintain his clan's financial racket, Trump needs Presidential Privilege to stay out of gaol. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization#Government_investigations
_________________________________

At least Iwanka can argue her strangely E.T.-like mental incompetence to escape justice.

Check out this interview by OLO's new reporter extraordinaire http://youtu.be/LPQYAT3wH_g
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 1:27:20 AM
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This has been a really pathetic attempt to criticise Trump by a few no-hoper lefties.

Even John Bolton, who spends most of his time bad-mouthing Trump these days, and who was actually present at the time - unlike the anonymous rabble who started the rumour - says it did not happen.

It is just another ruse, swallowed by the usual tragic lefties, to hide the fact that Trump has just got 10 million people back to work after the China virus.

If you want to make a thorough twat of yourself here, just repeat what your favourite lefty MSM pumps out.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:01:40 AM
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Oh I do love this one. runner is now essentially calling Fox News lying liberal media and CM is doing his deranged completely over the top 'they are all communists' shtick with the usual gay abandon.

runner of course ignoring the close relationship between Trump and Epstein, the numerous pictures together, the film of them ogling young women, of Trump saying Epstein 'likes them young', of the Royal family up to their eyeballs, of the rape allegations against his president, of the self admitted sexual assaults, of the sleeping with pornstars, of his general deep depravity. All of this runner turns a blind eye to because not satisfied with a heavenly authoritarian dictating his life he wants an earth bound daddy figure to worship, to immerse in cultish adulation.

Mate your embrace of such a thoroughly distasteful cretin says far more about just how baseless your morals are than any slander you might direct at others.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:10:38 AM
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worked out who invented the lightbulb yet Steelie. Thank God people are waking up that you regressives can't lie straight in bed. And to think you have stooped to elder abuse by putting up a man with dementia who barely knows what day it is.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:36:42 AM
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Stop the Presses....people who spent three years falling hook line and sinker for the Russian collusion story based on anonymous sources show they learnt precisely nothing from that experience by falling hook line and sinker for another story based on anonymous sources.

Remember when CNN had anonymous sources who knew that Trump had received advanced notice of the Wikileaks dump on Hillary's emails? Those anonymous sources were VERIFIED (verified I tells ya) by other anonymous sources. Right up to the point the whole story fell apart. Perhaps you don't remember that...the memory-hole is useful that way. So refusing to remember when all the anonymous stories were wrong helps to faithfully believe all the new anonymous sources stories.

Oh, there's a new anonymous sources story doing the rounds...Biden was beaten up by one of his secret service detail because he groped the guy's girlfriend. I'm sure you all believe that because anonymous sources are sooooo reliable!
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:44:37 AM
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SR,

You're forgetting that, although Trumpf is more repulsive than a bucket of old turds, Runner knows that Trumpf is HIS bucket of old turds.

You got in first: yes, Runner, keep away from mentioning Epstein.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:55:31 AM
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Oops, I forgot my main point.

Yonks ago, I was very interested in Psychiatry, and recall (perhaps unreliably) that narcissists and psychotics (and there didn't seem to be much difference between them) were horrified by being near clearly-disabled people, as if it would rub off. They thought such people were losers, to be exterminated if possible, certainly shut away, out of sight.

Make what you will of all that.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 11:00:58 AM
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So many books are currently being released prior
to the US election by former FBI agents, former
employees, family relatives,
and others telling what they know
about Trump, Russian collusion, and so forth.
The mind boggles.

Yet here we have the usual blood hounds
who should be out in the bush chasing rabbits instead of
baying on the forum and defending this man.

Takes all kinds I guess.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 11:09:52 AM
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Dear mhaze,

You are right, there is just no evidence to show there was any collusion. Except maybe for the;

Flynn Thing

Manafort Thing

Tillerson Thing

Sessions Thing

Kushner Thing

Wray Thing

Morgan, Lewis, & Bockius "Russian Law Firm of the Year" Thing

Carter Page Thing

Roger Stone Thing

Felix Sater Thing

Boris Epshteyn Thing

Rosneft Thing

Gazprom Thing (see above)
Sergey Gorkov banker Thing

Azerbaijan Thing

"I Love Putin" Thing

Lavrov Thing

Sergey Kislyak Thing

Oval Office Thing

Gingrich Kislyak Phone Calls Thing

Russian Business Interest Thing

Emoluments Clause Thing

Alex Schnaider Thing

Hack of the DNC Thing

Guccifer 2.0 Thing

Mike Pence "I don't know anything" Thing

Russians Mysteriously Dying Thing

Trump's public request to Russia to hack Hillary's email Thing

Trump house sale for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian
fertilizer king Thing

Russian fertilizer king's plane showing up in Concord, NC during Trump rally campaign Thing

Nunes sudden flight to the White House in the night Thing

Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery Thing

Cyprus bank Thing

Trump not Releasing his Tax Returns Thing

The Republican Party's rejection of an amendment to require Trump to show his taxes thing

Election Hacking Thing

GOP platform change to the Ukraine Thing

Steele Dossier Thing

Sally Yates Can't Testify Thing

Intelligence Community's Investigative Reports Thing

Trump reassurance that the Russian connection is all "fake news" Thing

Chaffetz not willing to start an Investigation Thing

Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an
investigation Thing

Appointment of Pam Bondi who was bribed by Trump in the Trump University scandal appointed to head the investigation Thing

The White House going into cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and firing of Flynn Thing

Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama Thing

Cont..
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 11:58:04 AM
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Cont..

Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything Thing

Agent MI6 following the money thing

Trump team KNEW about Flynn's involvement but hired him anyway Thing

Let's Fire Comey Thing

Election night Russian trademark gifts Things

Russian diplomatic compound electronic equipment destruction Thing

Let's give back the diplomatic compounds back to the Russians Thing

Let's Back Away From Cuba Thing

Donny Jr met with Russians Thing

Donny Jr emails details "Russian Government's support for Trump" Thing

Trump's secret second meeting with his boss Putin Thing

http://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/7u5k39/you_know_theres_really_no_evidence_of_trump/

This is from 2 years ago, what could we add since?

But you keep singing from the 'Defense of my President' cheat sheet mate.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 11:59:51 AM
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The Left Commissars are smarter than their acolytes; they seize on a word or phrase often used by their enemy - in Trump’s case, ‘loser’ - and search for a group of his supporters - in this case, the military. The aim is to attract a few waverers in the group, and the faithful will always make a noise about anything their masters bid them to. It doesn’t often work, but they need to make every post a winner with only a fool like Joe Biden to work with.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:03:09 PM
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SR,

Please be careful, Trumpf could get his Russian mates to slip you Novichok in your beer, or give you an umbrella prick, or whatever. Or to get his Mafia or Mexican mates to drop you out over the Pacific. Don't touch door-knobs without gloves. Wear a mask, and not just against Covid. Keep away from strangers.

Good luck !

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:09:09 PM
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Well SR, I don't know what you think your on about there, and I suspect that makes two of us.

None of those 'things' you mention have anything to do with Trump colluding with the Russians to swing the election.

Might I remind you that that nice Mr Mueller spent two years and $30+ million looking into this and found nothing, nada, nix to support the claim that there was collusion. That you fell (and continue to fall) HL&S for the anonymous sources who conjured up this story, says all we need to know about what you'll believe.

In this instance, we have a series of anonymous sources who haven't even got the balls (or the EVIDENCE) to back up the story versus a bunch of people who were actually there at the time and say the story is hopelessly false. No real surprise that you'd come down on the wrong side again.

You see, the problem with this type of thing is that people like you and Foxy are incapable of learning from past mistakes because you spend inordinate amounts of time trying to hide past mistakes and finally convince yourselves(but no one else) that the mistakes didn't occur. If you took the Mueller probe as a learning experience, you'd be much less likely to be led down the garden path by these later fabrications.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:31:55 PM
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ttbn, runner, mhaze, indi

The Curse of Iwanka's Brain And Trump's Incestural Love For Her be upon you http://youtu.be/6h8XzB6-m1s

Are you Trump Lovers' impressed?
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:34:10 PM
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Poor mhaze - hasn't won an argument
yet. We should just let him carry on
posting.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:56:05 PM
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ttbn, what makes you think Joe Biden's a fool?
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 12:56:18 PM
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OMG, SR, I have to apologise.

When I saw your list there were a few things on there that I hadn't heard before and I just assumed they were as moronic as the rest. But then I saw "Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery Thing" and, since I rather admire Devin Nunes, I figured I better check it out.

And what I found was shocking...shocking in the same way as finding gambling at Rick's was shocking.

Here's the story....Nunes is part owner in a US winery owned by a friend. That winery, in 2013, sold 22 cases of wine to a Russian distributor. Yeah, I know, right. It doesn't get any more conclusive than that. Unassailable proof that there was collusion between Trump and the Russians to swing the election!!

22 cases in 2013 from a winery that he doesn't even run! Struth what a dill.

What happened to you SR? You used to be passingly logical. Has TDS so addled your mind? No wonder you want Trump to out. Another 4 years of TDS and you'll be a blathering wreak.

Meanwhile Foxy shows that every time she's presented with information she can't refute, she reverts to kindergarten level personal attacks.

No, that's not fair. I should apologise...kindergarteners are better than that.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 5:55:14 PM
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http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/john-bolton-shoots-down-atlantic-story-saying-trump-called-soldiers-losers/

http://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/04/john-bolton-rejects-atlantic-story-i-was-there-i-didnt-hear-that/

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-bolton-says-he-didnt-hear-trump-insult-fallen-soldiers-in-france/ar-BB18Irew

Biden is promoting an anonymous story from a report by a Democratic journalist in Atlanta who funds Biden as fact, in an attempt to disgrace Trump, and the detractors believe it as fact. Those that were there who are no friend of Trump deny such a claim.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 7:13:48 PM
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Until this thread I would not have believed that even radical lefties like SR, Joe, Paul, Alan & company would be so stupid as to promote this utter garbage. Sure it plays well amongst the brethren, but just like promoting the Black Rights Matter riots, it is sure to turn reasonable uncommitted people away in droves.

It is so obviously a scam that I find it amazing that people I previously thought reasonably rational are jumping on the bandwagon. Guess it is the only train running, with the global warming gravy train idling in a siding. These people must be pretty simple if they really believe this rubbish, like BLM riots, are going to swing reasonable people to their cause.

They must like mixing with idiots, as it is only idiots that will be attracted to this gutter garbage.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 8:09:06 PM
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I'm sure The Donald has a most interesting relationship with his daughter. Ohooooooooooooo dear he certainly says and does some very odd things when it comes to Ivanka!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 9:07:56 PM
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Yes indeed Paul.

Trump has an eye for the ladies. But he should keep his lust in the family, meaning Melania not his daughter.
________________________

Hi Hasbeen

Here's something aside from Trump knocking US killed in action:

Former senior Trump official backs Biden, calls the Trump "terrifying" at http://youtu.be/Sckk_Md8a_M

More Republicans Against Trump have the guts to talk.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 9:42:25 PM
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mhaze,

Keep on posting.

It's very entertaining.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:23:03 PM
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The most pathetic thing about this fake news is that it is two years old.

Another disgusting comment from that complete degenerate, Paul 1405, about Trump and his daughter. If the coward could be identified, he would be in serious trouble with the law. He is a real sicko.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:30:22 PM
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Yes "that complete degenerate" Trump's sick behaviour is depicted in this publicly

available, legally distributed, youtube http://youtu.be/6h8XzB6-m1s
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 1:14:08 AM
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he would be in serious trouble with the law.
ttbn,
Yeah, did you see how he/it referred to the Chinese in another thread ? The one Foxy found amusing !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 2:32:35 AM
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Indy, ttbn,

Wake up, watch the YouTube, you might learn something. A woman on the clip mentioned Woody Allen, does that ring any bells with you, what was she on about? To say; "I'm sure The Donald has a most interesting relationship with his daughter. Ohooooooooooooo dear he certainly says and does some very odd things when it comes to Ivanka!' That is not derogatory what so ever, and its certainly not illegal.

You pair with your blinkers on are just to Trump sensitive
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 6:49:30 AM
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What is the point of rational debate based on facts of eye witnesses, when this subject is not more than a smear campaign concocted from a news journal Funding Biden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn0buXS5N3E
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 9:09:49 AM
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YouTube has some very trashy people on it too. OLO has Paul 1405 and a couple of others.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 9:20:20 AM
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Josephus,

I don't know whether or not this is just another 'smear campaign':

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/nyregion/donald-trump-jean-carroll-lawsuit-rape.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200908&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=127104467&segment_id=37637&user_id=35fd54d942ac9b9e288ef933afd6d6f5

but it does seem unusual for the Justice Department to take control of what is a non-governmental criminal issue, especially when it pertains to an alleged incident from well before Trumpf became President.

How could it be, in any way, the business of government for the Justice Department to involve itself in a private criminal matter between two private citizens, unless there was an intention to either bury the issue or hinder any proper investigation into it ?

How else can one explain this unusual intrusion ?

[Don't you just love those "well, how do you explain .... " arguments ? ]

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 10:08:38 AM
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Oh Joe suddenly the democrats are concerned about women being raped. Yep after covering for Weinstein, Epstein and the Clintons you are concerned for women? Amazing what tds does for you. I suppose Joe sticking his fingers into women uninvited counts for nothing! Oh well I suppose you could not possibly promote the democrats on policy.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 10:20:44 AM
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'God bless America' - cause they're going to need Him if Loony-tunes Trump gets his hands on a second term as Joker-in-Chief.
Talk about a Hollywood blockbuster 'Cartoon-series in the making' - will make Kevin Costner's movie attempt to reveal the truth about JFK's demise look like a kid's show.

Interesting expose by Fareed Zakaria on CNN on Monday night 7 Sept - Donald Trump, Conspirator-in-Chief.

No doubt about it, Donald is a chameleon, a slimy slippery eel, Wizard of Oz (US), or potentially devil incarnate in patent leather shoes.

Anyone who believes anything this 'D' says, writes or thinks is delusional and beyond all help and all hope.

Sorry, but the 'D' just has to go - and the sooner he is no longer heard from the better.
Posted by Saltpetre, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 10:30:52 AM
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Thomas Richardson, a retired member of the army's
82nd airborne division told the Associated Press
that he was rankled by the comments of President
Trump because as Richardson explained:

"Usually you don't choose those kind of missions.
You agree to serve and you agree to go where your
assignment is".

An active-service member stationed at the United States
Military Academy at West Point added that the current US
President's comments were not surprising considering
his lack of military experience. As the member explained:

"You don't get to pick your commander-in-chief...
Whatever political leaders say, we don't put much store
in it. We are apolitical. We know they're going to change
out in 4 or 8 years. Yes, they are in charge of us but our
other leaders are the ones who do the groundwork so we
put our faith in them".

But of course a US President's comments are hurtful and
do affect veterans and their families. As we saw when the
President's comments were aired prior to and after -
the death of the Republican Senator and Vietnam war hero -
John McCain who Trump criticized for being captured.
Trump was NOT invited to his State funeral.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 10:55:25 AM
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Hi Runner,

With some surprise, I realise that you are fully committed to women's rights. Yes, you're right: full legal investigations into complaints of sexual attack or harassment matter, no matter who it may be - Biden or Trumpf, Kennedy or Clinton. I'm all for it.

But not for any elected politician to use his influence and power to have an issue swept under the carpet, whether that's Trumpf or Biden.

And of course, he (it's almost always a 'he') should be given a full and fair trial, and presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. I thought that was the case with Pell, and I think it should be a principle that is upheld in relation to all of Trumpf's alleged offences over the past thirty years and more, and Biden's alleged offence as well.

Or would you prefer that they just take Biden out and shoot him now, 'impartially' ? To save the paper-work ?

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 11:01:11 AM
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Well that didn't take long...the whole story is unravelling.

The crux of the Atlantic fabrication as that when Trump blamed the weather for not being able to visit the cemetery, he was lying. That the truth was that he didn't want to visit the place full of losers.

Well so far 19 people who were there and in a position to know have come out and said the article is wrong. That the weather was indeed the reason for the cancellation. One of those was Trump hating John Bolton who said the article's claims were "simply false". Additionally the documentation obtained under FOIA from the Secret Service backs up Trump.

Soooooo,
Now the author of the article has admitted that indeed his claims about the reason for the cancellation of the visit were probably wrong. That Trump was correct...

"On Sunday, Atlantic Editor in Chief Jeffrey Goldberg admitted the White House’s account that President Trump’s trip to a cemetery of fallen World War I soldiers in France in 2018 was modified due to bad weather is probably accurate.

“I’m sure all of those things are true,” Goldberg told CNN"

http://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/

So will the various gullible dills here who fell for it use this as a learning moment. Not a chance. They'll just move onto the next unsourced story and believe it with all the fervour that they believed this piece of rubbish. And sit in wonder that things never turn out the way they expect.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 12:23:46 PM
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Dear mhaze,

I certainly accept your apology. Not to do so would be churlish in the extreme.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 12:37:49 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Wondering if you accept that this administration is the most corrupt in American history given;

"Paul Manafort, who was sentenced to more than seven years in prison in 2019 for a slew of charges from Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference, including tax and bank fraud, and conspiracy against the United States. 

The Mueller probe resulted in 100 charges against 34 people, six of whom were Trump associates, while the other 25 were Russians accused of interference. 

Rick Gates, a Trump campaign deputy, was sentenced to 45 days in jail on a plea bargain for charges of conspiracy against the U.S. and making false statements;

Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security advisor, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, though his case is currently in limbo as the Department of Justice is attempting to withdraw his charge; and

George Papadopoulos, Trump’s former foreign policy advisor, was sentenced to 14 days in prison with a year of supervised release, for lying to FBI agents about his contacts with Russian intermediaries during the 2016 campaign. 

Michael Cohen, Trump’s former personal lawyer, was sent to prison in 2018 for tax evasion, fraud and lying to Congress about his dealings with Russia on behalf of the president, and has pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations for making hush money payments to women to keep quiet allegations Trump engaged in extramarital affairs. 

Trump recently commuted the prison sentence of longtime advisor Roger Stone, who was also convicted on seven charges, including lying to Congress and witness tampering, as part of Mueller’s investigation."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/20/bannon-joins-long-list-of-trump-associates-who-have-been-charged-or-imprisoned/#3fe093385ea4
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 12:49:51 PM
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Not honouring the sacrifices of American soldiers
in WWI due to some rain when everyone else was able
to do so does not bode well for a commander-in-chief
by any normal standards.

World leaders like Emmanuel Macron of France, Angela
Merkel of Germany, Justing Trudeau of Canada all
managed to attend despite the rain. As did the
American delegation led by Chief of Staff General
John Kelly and Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff
General Joe Dunford. President Obama visited many war
zones. Rain did not stop him.

But I guess a man who's obsessed with his hair being
"perfect" would not want to get it wet, and who blames
war heroes for getting "captured" as he did with Republican
Senator and Vietnam war hero - John McCain. Such a man
with his serial military deferments would understandably
have other priorities.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 1:10:48 PM
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'Well that didn't take long...the whole story is unravelling.'

Its obvious mHaze if they had to report on truth the paper would be blank. That's why we have Russian Collusion, Ukraine Collusion, Jussie Smollet, Bubba Wallace, Covington kid, 'peaceful blm/antifa protest etc etc etc.

The lying liberal media/swamp has been such continual liars for 4 years that I suspect Trump could murder someone and few would believe the media. I wonder what tomorrows fake news will be?
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 1:55:23 PM
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Sr wrote: "I certainly accept your apology"

Well now I don't know whether you actually understood that my apology was tongue-in-cheek. The old SR would have got it, but the new SR...I'm not so sure.

"Wondering if you accept that this administration is the most corrupt in American history "

Quick says SR...I've made a fool of myself...let's change the subject.

Well, SR, the only person on your list who was in the administration was Flynn and he's effectively been found innocent of lying to the FBI, but 'guilty' of being lied about. So no SR, not corrupt.

As to the most corrupt, given what we know of the previous administration....not even close.

Not a single one of the Americans you mention was charged with anything remotely like colluding to swing the election.

Some of the Russians were so charged but since they'll never front a court, we don't know what evidence Mueller had. But we do know that when one of the Russian companies tried to get their charges heard in court, Mueller couldn't retreat fast enough. So there's probably very little to no evidence.

__________________________________________________________________

I see Foxy has now dropped the whole 'loser' thing and accepts it was the weather wot dun it.

Will she use her earlier gullibility as a learning experience? We all know the answer to that.

As to not wanting to get his hair wet (or whatever idiocy is the latest claim), the decision was made by the Secret Service and them alone. But, heh, when you're suffering TDS, what have the facts got to do with it?
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 2:03:55 PM
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Dear mhaze,

When you stop citing from conservative links like
The Federalist and broaden your information from
more objective American news sources your credibility
may improve and what you posts may be taken seriously.

For now?

NAH!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 2:52:16 PM
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Dear mhaze,

You wrote; "Well now I don't know whether you actually understood that my apology was tongue-in-cheek."

What do you think.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 3:00:23 PM
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Stop reading American Journalist stories and listen to UTube reports of the persons involved, in their own words.

There is a political campaign going on so the reporters are political and not factual.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 4:25:58 PM
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The Atlantic Magazine is a political propaganda arm supporting Democrats. In the September issue alone, Donald Trump is directly referenced 136 times, and indirectly referenced in every single article. He is The Atlantic's perpetual villain. They obsessively attack him. They are advocating defunding the Police, so they are more guilty of denigrating hero's than Trump. Their agenda is to take down Trump by their propaganda.

http://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/09/04/heres-how-we-know-the-atlantics-hit-piece-on-trump-is-pure-fiction-n890999

Read the tweets from the persons who were there. The Story is a HOAX!
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 5:10:55 PM
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Foxy wrote: "When you stop citing from conservative links like
The Federalist and broaden your information from
more objective American news sources your credibility
may improve and what you posts may be taken seriously."

1. The link had video of the actual author of the original article basically admitting that he got a large part of the story wrong. How anyone purporting to be interested in the truth can reject that because they don't like the website is beyond belief.

2. My news sources alerted me to the truth while your's led you down the garden path, yet again. Yet in the addled world that is Foxy-land, I need to change MY sources. The level of illogicality involved in that thinking is beyond belief.

3. You've now accepted that the original story you fell for was wrong and that you'd been misled by those you rely on to tell you what to think. How that doesn't lead one to think they need to broaden their scope is beyond belief.

Just to lighten the load, I'm sure all you never-Trumpers out there will love this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnzPEyTpByU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3VDVLIkERhUQIm2EOU3uOH7RfXy717tOHjzcDImKdnp83N57-NtX-u3tw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRzItC94xeI&t=38s
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 5:27:32 PM
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Only 56 more days (our time) !

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 5:37:48 PM
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Dear mhaze,

In order to impress and make me want to actually
read your entire posts - you're going to have to
lift your game. At present all I do is scan them to
check if you've said anything worth reading.
NOPE - another fail! But - hey -

Keep trying - you'll perhaps get there some day.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 5:42:09 PM
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'The Story is a HOAX!'

Its what gives the regressives their thrills.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 6:18:31 PM
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NO - the thrills are all yours!
As Trump has learned - people
like a show!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 10:48:09 PM
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PLANET AMERICA FEATURES SAME SUBJECT

CheckouT tonight's (9th September's) Planet America episode, titled "Did Trump call

fallen soldiers 'losers'?" http://youtu.be/ntqKPFx1OnY .

A. That aspect fills the first 11 minutes 20 seconds of the episode.

B. 11 mins, 25 secs into same episode see REPUBLICANS of the LINCOLN PROJECT

at http://lincolnproject.us/ working to rid the US of Trump.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 10 September 2020 1:30:02 AM
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REPUBLICANS of the LINCOLN PROJECT wrote:

On 2 September 2020 http://lincolnproject.us/news/pow/

"Following the announcement of a Veteran and Military Community Coalition earlier this week, today The Lincoln Project released a new ad, “POW”, spotlighting the horrors American prisoners of war have experienced and recognizing them as the heroes they are.

The ad [here http://youtu.be/c_6MGxvSaAY ] also admonishes Trump for the HORRIFIC comments he made about the late Senator John McCain’s military service and experience as a prisoner of war.

“President Trump DODGED serving in Vietnam, who since even before becoming president has degraded war heroes and has allowed Russia to put a bounty on the heads of our brave service men and women,” said Fred Wellman, The Lincoln Project’s Senior Advisor for Veteran’s Affairs.

“He [TRUMP] is a disgrace to the office and unworthy of the title Commander in Chief. We are sending this ad to every Republican Senator and Congressman with a letter asking if they stand with our brave POW’s or Donald Trump. Our soldiers deserve to know who has their backs. It’s not Donald Trump.”

See what patriotic REPUBLICANS think of TRUMP again at Youtube http://youtu.be/c_6MGxvSaAY

44 seconds into that Youtube see TRUMP's ugly face, spouting his I'm-too-rich-to-care comments...

TRUMP just doesn't get patriotism or sacrifice...
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 10 September 2020 1:44:50 AM
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Of course the missing element, or the lie to the argument , is buried in what is not told of the story.

Let’s use our own history as evidence. Even if Uncle Donald was quoted correctly calling the war dead suckers; the term does fit remarkably accurately.

Isn’t that after all, how we in Australia considered our Vietnam war recruits; suckers.
And they sure were.
Sucked into a badly thought out war on the Asian mainland, bordered with China.
Proved from the get go the “unwinnable war”.

WW1 was another which proved itself fuelled by suckers as it turned out.

WW2 was less so, but suckers there were a plenty recruited. Those not considered suckers were those exempted from active service by Government protection of man power for essential industry.

And this is an example of turning one group of society into suckers, (same meaning, different word, cannon fodder), farmers sons given exemptions, {if they so chose}, to stay on the farm, while the farm workers were mandated to enlist.

Suckers is a crude term, but it fits too often.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 10 September 2020 10:11:31 AM
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Plantagenet has spent most of his time quoting other people or referring to what other people said. That's the Left for you: passing on other people's ideas as if they are gospel. No originality. No personal opinions. Just good little messengers, passing on tripe from the ABC and the gutter press. Second hand dealers.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 10 September 2020 10:39:15 AM
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DIVER DAN asks

"Isn’t that after all, how we in Australia considered our Vietnam war recruits; suckers."
_______________________

Don't try and riggle out of this one diver dan.

You may think our soldiers in war are "suckers" as you put it.

I don't.

My Dad served in Vietnam and my Grandfather at Gallipoli.

Your comment is a grievous insult to all our soldiers, naval and air personnel.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 10 September 2020 10:42:39 AM
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Foxy wrote: "In order to impress and make me want to actually
read your entire posts..."

What on earth makes you think I want to impress you. The only way to do that would be to write blather and falsehoods, and that's not in my nature.

Look Foxy, you were wrong on this...demonstrably wrong. You allowed yourself, yet again, to be led down the garden path by your sources. Say whatever you need to in order to salve your hurt and then move on to the next monumental error.

** **Plantaganet wrote:
He "allowed Russia to put a bounty on the heads of our brave service men and women".

Good to see your continued commitment to getting it wrong. The Russian bounty story has been debunked. It was instead the Iranians who did it and that's why Trump took out Soleimani
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 10 September 2020 11:23:32 AM
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It's amazing how the Anti-National Service crowd protests against Draft Dodgers !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 10 September 2020 12:22:23 PM
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mhaze,

Let me explain:

I'm fabulous.

You're not.

Pretty basic stuff.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 10 September 2020 12:43:03 PM
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Foxy continues her commitment to getting it wrong...

http://giphy.com/gifs/mic-drop-peace-out-obama-3o7qDEq2bMbcbPRQ2c/fullscreen
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 10 September 2020 12:52:55 PM
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mhaze,

Admit it.

This forum would be BORING
without me.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 10 September 2020 1:40:07 PM
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No way Indy! I'm all for Seniors National Service, as you well know. Any old welfare recipient who is a draft dodger will be delt with to the full extent of the law! Clap them in irons, I say, a quick court martial, I say, and.... well, you don't want to know what comes next.

It certainly would be Foxy, boring. A forum populated by those self important serious old farts! Gee, how boring forum life would be. Do you recall that now crusty old conservative, and one time opposition leader, Andrew Peacock. According to Andrew everything was; "A very serious matter!" In TV interviews he would bring something up, and then add; "This is a very serious matter!", he would say that about everything. The interviewer would say; "Who said it was a very serious matter Mr peacock, no one is really interested in that." Peacock would reply; "I say it is a very serious matter!"...Interviewer, "Moving on..." No wounder Peacock never made PM, he was too BORING!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 10 September 2020 2:15:52 PM
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Dear mhaze,

You write; "The only way to do that would be to write blather and falsehoods, and that's not in my nature."

What rubbish mate. You have been shown up to be posting drivel on such a regular basis it has become an identifiable standard for you.

You have downplayed Climate Change, COVID, the grievances of BLM.

Your trumping of Trump's virtues are legendary.

Why would anyone ever take you seriously?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 10 September 2020 2:23:06 PM
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Paul1405,
For a supposedly 67 year old you're exceptionally insipid. If your condition were to be a criminal offence you'd never get parole !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 10 September 2020 2:53:02 PM
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Individual,

Strange that you mention that, I've always found Paul to be quite sipid - but understandably, perhaps less gruntled and couth than most people.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 10 September 2020 2:58:13 PM
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Dear loudmouth2,

And alert, because God knows we need more lerts in this world.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 10 September 2020 3:01:46 PM
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latest alert! Trump hates the Police. Joe, Kamala, Cortez and Nancy love the police. Despite the fact they have encouraged violence against the police, spitting on Police, the defunding of the Police and total disrespect for the Police they love them. Three anonymous sources from 10 years ago heard Trump say with his own mouth 'stuff the police'. If it wasn't true then CNN, ABC, Foxy, Steelie, Joe and Paul would not believe something that that is so blatantly obvious. News alert!
Posted by runner, Thursday, 10 September 2020 3:15:38 PM
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Runner,

Interesting: you can't seem to get beyond either-or thinking: if Trumpf says or supports A, you automatically assume that all those nasty anti-Trumpf people couldn't possibly support A, and therefore are evil. If Trumpf opposes B, you assume that all sensible people in the world, those with some compassion, even Christian compassion, for other less fortunate, will support B, and all others are consciously, deliberately, conspiratorially, evil.

But there are usually many nuanced positions of belief or support between A and 100%-anti-A, between B and 100%-anti-B. There are many different varieties of Christians, of Buddhists, and of ratbags, of atheists, and fools such as your good self.

Would that the world were simple: either this point of view, i.e. mine, and all others as evil, anti-me, anti-sense, anti-goodness. Nothing in between. But the world is, so to speak, in between. Well, no, actually, such a uniform world would be bat-sh!t boring. As it must be in heaven, I suppose, millenia after millenia singing the praises of a god. The other place sounds quite appealing in comparison. And of course, most of us don't believe in either place. That's how the world is, Runner.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 10 September 2020 3:31:29 PM
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'But there are usually many nuanced positions of belief or support between A and 100%-anti-A, between B and 100%-anti-B. '

Really Joe? Yet to see you demonstrate this. tds does that to you.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 10 September 2020 3:53:10 PM
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Of course runner believes that any criticisms of Trump[
are all lies, hoaxrs, or fake news.
And those who point them out are Marxists,
regressives and suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome.
But then he also believes that there's an outsized white
male with a long flowing beard who sits in the sky who
created the universe, and watches everything we do.
What do you call that?

But if you tell him the paint is wet, I'll bet he'd have
to touch it to be sure.

Go figure.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 10 September 2020 4:05:26 PM
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mhaze and runner, et al, should keep on defending
Trump. Listening to the American news - Trump needs
all the help he can get.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 10 September 2020 4:08:24 PM
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Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-by-norwegian-official?fbclid=IwAR2f9iD4ra-CnO9T5Y4Gw3gasUZyRg4gFGQWyBtFhN9UVC6Rqnyzp2XFX8Q
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 10 September 2020 5:33:38 PM
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This is getting rediculous, the daily shocks about The Donald! Today its; "TRUMP LIED ABOUT COVID-19". Who did he lie to, the answer, unbelievably, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

How do we know this to be true, its recorded on tape. DONALD TRUMP lying about Covid-19 to the American people.

“You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed,” Trump explained to reporter Bob Woodward on February 7. “And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu … This is deadly stuff.”

In public, Trump was saying just the opposite.

“We only have five people,” he told Sean Hannity. “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

On February 11, he promised folks at a campaign rally that COVID “miraculously goes away.” Three days later, he assured Geraldo Rivera that “we only have, basically, 12 cases and most of those people are recovering and some cases fully recovered."

On February 24, Trump panic-tweeted, “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA." All a pack of lies, when Trump actually knew the truth was strikingly different to what he was publicly saying
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 10 September 2020 5:40:26 PM
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never mind the lockdown marxist 'experts' who said 2 million would die in the US and 150000 here in Australia. And to see that those with the harshest lockdowns have the highest death rates. Yep people with a marxist bent like Paul want you to trust the 'experts' just like the gw fraudsters. Biden still claining Trump stopping flights from China is xenophobic Paul or have you moved on to the latest fake news. Has your mate Chairman Dan told any more porkies today Paul as he keeps all in lockdown (except public servants) in Victoria. You really are pathetic and show how dumbed down your marxist mates have made so many.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 10 September 2020 5:52:38 PM
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mhaze and diver dan

Y'all "suckers" of Herr Trump, watch this http://youtu.be/c_6MGxvSaAY

Is your Donald good to you?
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 10 September 2020 8:38:31 PM
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Here's another video by principled Republicans standing up against Trump http://youtu.be/XeNBX_0CUS4
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 10 September 2020 10:04:47 PM
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runner, making it up again, no one said; "2 million WOULD die in the US and 150000 here in Australia", that is totally out of context. What was said, given absolutely no controls 2 million WOULD die in the US and 150000 here in Australia. That was fair comment, even with Trumps pathetic attention to the virus, and some good work by other Americans the Trump death toll is around 200,000 so far, and Australia's about 700.
Suck it in sunshine!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 10 September 2020 10:08:31 PM
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Plantagenet, thanks so much for those video clips.
How anyone can support the bald-faced lying Trump and be taken in by his contrived lying spiel is beyond me.

Diver Dan, I am disgusted by your totally irreverent scoffing at the sacrifice of our Aussie soldiers, conscript and otherwise who answered this nation's call to protect and defend freedom and security.
You should get on your knees, as should we all, in recognition of the benefits we enjoy because of their sacrifice.

As for Trump's deviousness, the revelations keep piling up, and it smells really bad to anyone not blinded by this conceited, self-serving spin-merchant.
On the Biden thread I posted the following.

It's amazing that some people really think Trump is a genuine Christian and a real believer in the sanctity of human life and therefore is against abortion, any abortion.

Totally amazing that Trump's record both in and out of politics and through the history of his personal life has not revealed to these Trump supporters that he is living a lie and will do anything to hoodwink everyone all of the time if he can.

I guess though some 'believers' must just be so 'hooked' that they cling fast to the 'illusion' in spite of all the evidence clearly demonstrating that Trump is really a circus-showman, a snake-oil salesman and a complete fraud.

Someone said 'seeing' is not as important as 'looking' in the quest to reveal truth. Surely some truth in that, for all genuinely seeking revelation.

Biden may be a bit slow and has not always been wise in his choices, but he certainly appears to be the genuine article and there seem to be a great many people who see him just that way, 'genuine', no ifs, not buts, just the real deal.
Surely that beats a 'snake-oil salesman' any day of the week?
All we and the free world can hope is that clarity and sanity will ultimately prevail.
Otherwise, hang on to your hat and batten down the hatches, cause all bets will be off and the hounds will be taking no prisoners.
Posted by Saltpetre, Thursday, 10 September 2020 11:35:11 PM
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Thanks Saltpetre

And as you say:

"Trump is really a circus-showman, a snake-oil salesman and a complete fraud"

Trump gives his gullible Base, porn stars and toupées a bad name.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 10 September 2020 11:53:08 PM
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Are you Trump Lovers' impressed?
plantagenet,
You sound suspiciously like one such offspring !
Posted by individual, Friday, 11 September 2020 1:17:39 AM
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I have to admit I'm getting sick and tired of Trumpf being blamed for everything: just because he occupies the most powerful executive position in the world, doesn't mean that he's responsible for everything:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/donald-trump-under-fire-attempts-to-shift-blame-to-bob-woodward-20200911-p55ul3.html

Clearly, Woodward had a huge responsibility to pass on the information that he got from Trumpf. Because of that delay, perhaps two months' of Covid-19 deaths unnecessarily occurred: maybe the first ninety thousand deaths could have been avoided if Woodward had acted sooner - 30 9/11s.

We have to remember that Trumpf is President of the US, he's not a health expert, but he's entitled to his views on how urgent an issue might be. And yes, he might get it just a bit wrong, don't we all ? He's doing his best, give him a break.

54 days to go :)

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 11 September 2020 11:02:09 AM
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Yeah

Trump, that poor, horny, ill-educated, wealth-isolated-from-reality, parochial, Manhattan Yokel.

What with Trump wading into health crisis decision making waters causing 170,000 needless deaths over what should have been expected in that country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_communication_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic

Give the dumb Shmuck a break!

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 11 September 2020 11:33:51 AM
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SR wrote; "You have been shown up to be posting drivel on such a regular basis it has become an identifiable standard for you."

And if only you could think up (or make up!!) some examples, that'd be devastating. But alas.

Remember SR, in this thread alone you've made three monumental errors:

* believing the 'loser' lie
* thinking that someone selling 22 cases of grog to Russia in 2013 proves collusion by someone else in 2016
* trying to show corruption in the administration by listing a bunch of people NOT in the administration

As to you your laughably infantile 'examples':

I've never "downplayed " CC. I've said often and loudly that its been happening for several billion years.
I've never downplayed the WuFlu - but accurately described its dangers
I've said nothing about the merit of BLM grievances.

Do try to keep up.

** ** Foxy wrote: ** **
"Admit it. This forum would be BORING without me"

Well it would certainly lose a lot of its comedic value.

She also wrote: "mhaze.. should keep on defending Trump."

In the case of the 'loser' lies, defending the truth, not Trump. Foxy on the other hand attacks Trump irrespective and without the slightest interest as to whether the story is true.

** ** Paul wrote: " "TRUMP LIED ABOUT COVID-19"."

And so without learning a thing having fallen for the previous beat-up, Paul falls for the next beat-up. Struth!

"Referring to Trump’s coronavirus press briefings, Fauci said, “I don’t think he said much different than what we said [to him] when we were in the Oval Office.”"

** ** plantagenet meanwhile, after being the first to fall for the 'loser' lies, just keeps on pretending they are true. Because if you really want them to be true, they just are
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 11 September 2020 11:35:51 AM
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mhaze,

How to respond appropriately to your comments?

I guess the easiest option is to just take you as
you are - for the entertainment value alone.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 September 2020 11:52:46 AM
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No second prizes, Foxy
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 11 September 2020 12:32:25 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Come on mate, you are an absolute feast of cock ups.

Let's just run with some of your Covid pontifications;

mhaze quote“So just like a normal flu season.” Well that got blown out of the water didn't it, and who can forget your utter lack of understanding of the 95% confidence level on the all case mortality graphs.

Another on whether it had the potential to cause millions of deaths world wide; “It doesn't. Faulty early information suggested it might, but that's no longer the case.”

We will soon be over a million and marching onward.

And this from you; “At the outset, WHO was giving a fatality rate of 3.4%. It was this number, which is now shown to be completely wrong, that was originally fed into models to achieve the early dire death numbers.”

Victoria has recorded 701 deaths for 19728 cases giving it a current case fatality rate of over 3.5%.

You have had to retreat from comment after comment.

For something non-Covid who can forget this little beauty where you hadn't realised there were two indicies;

http://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=ukgrybzy&v=201911111008V20191105&d1=20091221&url2=/germany/gdp-growth-annual

Dissecting your stuffups has been a guilty pleasure of mine and I really can't recall a period when you have failed to deliver.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 11 September 2020 1:10:18 PM
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mhaze,

Glad to see that you admit to "no second
prizes".

Although, as Steele has pointed out you do deserve
the "middle-finger-of-fate" prize.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 September 2020 1:29:19 PM
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'Runner, making it up again, no one said; "2 million WOULD die in the US and 150000 here in Australia",'

yeah Paul and making it up that the democrats opposed the China ban while the who announced no human to human transmission. The regressives just ignore their previous lie and move on to the next. But then again 'experts' are allowed to have totally flawed modelling as long their regressive leaders can increase their levels of tyranny. Yep with Cuomo using his power to send covid into aged care, Anna stopping children attending their parents funerals and Dan's draconian lockdowns causing more death than other states and massive mental health issues you must be so proud of the response. Oh sorry that's right its nothing to do with saving lives just tyranny for dictators hiding behind hopelessly incompetent medical bureacrats.
Posted by runner, Friday, 11 September 2020 2:26:43 PM
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I wrote: "And if only you could think up (or make up!!) some examples"

So make up it is, eh SR?

1. In Australia death rates show its less dangerous or deadly than a normal flu season. You shouldn't equate the level government and media hype with the relative danger of the issue.

2. "your utter lack of understanding of the 95% confidence level" You never did get that issue, did you? Well we've seen plenty of other times when the numbers baffled you. It wasn't that I didn't know what those levels were, it was just that the point I was making was peripheral to those numbers. I know it went over you head and, sadly still does.

3. I said it won't cause millionS of deaths and you think that's wrong when its yet to cause even 1 million. Bottom of the barrel?

4. Fatality rates - now you're not even trying. Or is it that even here the numbers baffle you? You CAN'T calculate the IFR in the way you've done it. The number of diagnosed cases is just a fraction of the estimated number of actual cases. The CDC says the IFR is somewhere around 0.3%. The WHO is similar. What you've done there is bonkers and, as is your wont, you'll now drop it. Besides Victoria is a particularly badly administered locale so not representative of the whole. What you done is confuse the Case fatality rate with the Incidence Fatality rate. But when you mix numbers and SR, confusion reigns supreme.

Can't help but notice that you've pretend to not notice all the monumental errors you made in this thread alone.

** ** Foxy ** ** wrote: ""middle-finger-of-fate" prize"

Very classy.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 11 September 2020 3:27:38 PM
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mhaze,

Yes - very classy AND fabulous!
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 September 2020 3:53:42 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Lol.

Ah you really are a slippery sod aren't to, unashamedly so by the look of it.

You claimed; “WHO was giving a fatality rate of 3.4%”

What they actually said was “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died”.

That is the CFR which is what I also referenced in regard to Victoria.

Look how you replied; “You CAN'T calculate the IFR in the way you've done it.”

We were discussing the Case Fatality Ratio and you attempted in your response to swing it to the Infection Fatality Ratio. Two quite different things. Quite dishonest of you of course but nothing new.

So you either misrepresented the WHO figures in the original conversation, or you recognised how you had stuffed up and tried to pull a little swifty to get yourself off the hook.

“the point I was making was peripheral to those numbers” That did get a belly laugh.

I had forgotten how much fun this is. What else you got for us?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 11 September 2020 4:15:45 PM
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Just to clarify: at the beginning of the year, even well into February, nobody knew how dangerous this virus was, or could be, or would be. Some made light of it -'nothing worse than the flu' - and others did the maths and suggested that, if it got out of control (with the Black Plague and the Spanish Flu in mind), it COULD cause millions of deaths. So for Christ's sake, act now.

Okay, so yes, even on current projections it WILL cause millions of deaths. Many countries did bugger-all early on, and incurred many thousands of deaths, Britain, France, Italy, Brazil, Sweden, the US. Some went through the motions of imposing conditions and are still counting the deaths, with the curve (remember the curve ?) still going up or flat. Some relaxed restrictions too early and are now counting the deaths in their second wave, Britain, France, Spain.

Some are now minimising the number of Covid-related deaths by counting them as dying of other morbidity causes. Some leaders cover their eyes and - bingo ! much fewer deaths. I suspect all manner of other methods of minimising deaths and opening up economies as early as possible will be attempted, since, after all, we can't have businesses going broke.

Long way to go yet, folks.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 11 September 2020 4:17:21 PM
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Please guys don't attend any relatives funeral this year as 1182 people died in accidents in 2019. And that is not counting those maimed. Wake up Australia.
Posted by runner, Friday, 11 September 2020 4:55:42 PM
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No one gets out of this world alive.

We're all cremated equally.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 September 2020 4:58:07 PM
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SR wrote: "We were discussing the Case Fatality Ratio and you attempted in your response to swing it to the Infection Fatality Ratio. Two quite different things. Quite dishonest of you of course but nothing new."

We weren't discussing the CFR. We were discussing the rate "that was originally fed into models to achieve the early dire death numbers.”

Now I know that numbers baffle you so you're just going to have to trust me that there is no way, zero, nada, that they feed CFR into models. Their models were bad, but not that bad. The notion is beyond hilarious. Yet there you are calculating the CFR and saying that was used in the models.

I say the number used was an IFR of ~0.3% and and then you, moronically, try to say that's wrong by calculating the CFR.

Let me try to make it simpler for you. If I say the temperature today is 20C you can't disprove that by saying its 68F.

BTW Can't help but notice that you're pretending to not notice all the monumental errors you made in this thread alone.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 11 September 2020 5:15:44 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Oh come on mate, that is a rather lowball effort.

This was the speech from the WHO Director-General from where your figure is derived.

“Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.”

http://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020

I repeat this is exactly what you said at the time;

“At the outset, WHO was giving a fatality rate of 3.4%. It was this number, which is now shown to be completely wrong, that was originally fed into models to achieve the early dire death numbers.”

You are trying to intimate now you accepted their figure but it was misused.

However when I said “Victoria has recorded 701 deaths for 19728 cases giving it a current case fatality rate of over 3.5%.”

You retorted with; “You CAN'T calculate the IFR in the way you've done it.”

Even though I had clearly said “current case fatality rate”.

You either can't comprehend what you have read, or you are being deliberately obtuse to try and get out of accepting you stuffed up.

Just so we can set the record straight, were WHO quantifying the CFR or the IFR?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 11 September 2020 5:46:49 PM
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Luv it Foxy: "We're all cremated equally."
____________________________________________

MORE

A Proverb "Eat well, stay fit, die anyway."

"I'd rather be fishing."
Said Jimmy Glass (c.1962 – 1987) American convicted murderer
Last words Before his execution on a Louisiana electric chair.

"They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it makes me sad to realize that I'm going to miss mine by just a few days."
Said Garrison Keillor (1942 – ) humorist & radio broadcaster

"Well, this is certainly a pleasant surprise."
Said Andrew Mutton, American mobster. Last words after he remarked to his associate when the car with starter motor problems started successfully. Moments later a bomb rigged to the ignition exploded killing Mutton.
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 11 September 2020 6:01:43 PM
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Hi Pete,

Thanks for the light relief. We need to laugh.

I made a boo boo. I should have said - we're all
cremated equal.

Anyway, here's a few more on a variety of subjects:

1) Familiarity breeds attempt.

2) Insomnia is only mind over mattress.

3) Doctor feel my purse.

4) I'm a member of the weeper sex.

5) Hold your head high and your middle finger higher.

6) My middle-finger salutes you.

7) Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're an
ar!se hole.

That will do for now.
(smile).
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 September 2020 6:09:09 PM
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Stop it, you fellas :)
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 11 September 2020 6:31:11 PM
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Dear Joe,

Just one more. One last one:

If I was a plastic surgeon I would 100%
put a squeaky toy in every breast implant.
(smile).
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 September 2020 7:33:08 PM
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On SBS TV right now is a doco on George W. Bush (Part 1 of 2) until 9.30pm (Aus Eastern Time).

Bush had his limitations, but at least he knew HOW to be a REAL President

not a Reality TV President, like the Donald.
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 11 September 2020 8:19:09 PM
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Foxy,

Being an equal-opportunity dreamer, if I was a plastic surgeon, I would insert a squeaky toy in every penis transplant :)

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 11 September 2020 8:30:04 PM
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I must agree Planty, The Donald makes George W look good. In years to come when there is a total fruitcake in the White House again, some boy will say; "Look at that total fruitcake in the White House, he's the dumbest dill ever to be President!". His old man will say; "Son, you don't remember the year of the great pandemic, back in 2020, when The Donald was in charge, now there was the greatest dill brain President ever, he makes this Ronald McDonald look like a positive genius".
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 12 September 2020 6:24:45 AM
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SR,

Dearie me! Why is this so hard for you?

Whenever you post quotes or the like without a URL, its a safe bet that there's something you're trying to hide. And so it is here. Here's the actual post...
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9129#301651

From that its clear I was talking about the IFR. Only a true dolt(ie you) would use the CFR.

"You are trying to intimate now you accepted their figure but it was misused.[?]"

What I clearly said was that they originally didn't know that there was a massive difference between CFR and IFr for this virus and by using CFR their models were out by an order of magnitude.

See here: http://theconversation.com/how-deadly-is-the-coronavirus-the-true-fatality-rate-is-tricky-to-find-but-researchers-are-getting-closer-141426

"On March 3....said that “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died.” At the time, it was unclear whether the number of confirmed cases was very different from the number of total cases, so the WHO used confirmed cases...."

I suspect this is all going over your head by ask a 10 year old to help out if you can find one.

"Just so we can set the record straight, were WHO quantifying the CFR or the IFR?"

At the time they thought they were roughly the same thing.

________________________________________________________________

BTW Can't help but notice that you're pretending to not notice all the monumental errors you made in this thread alone.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 12 September 2020 9:52:42 AM
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mhaze and...?
____________________
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 12 September 2020 10:07:59 AM
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On essential "PBS NewsHour" viewing 12.30pm SBS Saturdays and SBS On Demand http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/program/pbs-newshour

on Trump vs Biden are

Mark Shields (left on screen - a center-right Democrat ex-Marine and Washington Post)

and

David Brooks (right on screen - conservative Democrat. New York Times)

Here Shields and Brooks discuss the Bob Woodward book on Trump intentionally "talking down" The Pandemic http://youtu.be/XOz4BNqeGHs?t=40m45s

They'll discuss much more on Trump vs Biden as the Wednesday Nov 4 (our time) Election draws near.
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 12 September 2020 3:46:00 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Oh I am enjoying this.

So now you are contending that WHO didn't know the difference between CFR and IFR? While little keyboard warrior like yourself was fully appraised of it?

Get you hand off it mate.

You own link says “It’s no surprise that, very quickly, media around the world interpreted the news as evidence that the disease is deadlier than feared, and Twitter was buzzing with speculation about Covid-19’s real death rate.”

WHO were quite clear in what they said. It was very straight forward.

“Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died.”

That media and idiots like your president were so illiterate to the difference shouldn't be on WHO.

Back we go again to your comment; “WHO was giving a fatality rate of 3.4%. It was this number, which is now shown to be completely wrong,”

WHO were not wrong were they.

And you are again deflecting. Why did you try and shift the CFR metric I used to discuss Victoria to IFR to try and worm your way out of this?

Does Victoria currently have a CFR above WHO's designation of 3.4% or not. Pretty simple mate. Cough up.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 12 September 2020 5:40:32 PM
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Today/yesterday is/was the 19th anniversary of the horrific 9/11 tragedies in the US. Three thousand people were killed in those vile attacks, organised by al Qai'ida from their hideouts in Afghanistan, with Taliban connivance. Someone should inform the relevant 'leaders' about that link.

Three thousand people ! You have to go back so far to match that in terms of Covid-19 deaths, thanks at least in part - perhaps not entirely - to Trumpf's incompetence and childish desire not to hear about nasty things like sick people.

Three thousand ! For Covid deaths, you have to go back to around about last Tuesday or Wednesday to match that grim total.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Saturday, 12 September 2020 7:45:11 PM
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"Oh I am enjoying this."

You enjoy making a fool of yourself? Well if you're too self-absorbed to even realise it, I suppose it might be enjoyable.

"So now you are contending that WHO didn't know the difference between CFR and IFR?"

That's not even close to what I said. With comprehension skills that abysmal, its little wonder this all goes over your head.

What I was saying was that at the outset, the authorities were unaware of the level of asymptomatic and mild symptom cases and therefore thought the CFR and IFR numbers were similar. Did you read the article I linked? Probably not. Did you understand the article I linked? Obviously not.

FFS I even picked out the most pertinent part for the slow of reading..."At the time, it was unclear whether the number of confirmed cases was very different from the number of total cases, so the WHO used confirmed cases to calculate how deadly the coronavirus was."

So they used a number that they thought was right but which turned out to be inappropriate for their purposes. You don't use the CFR in models unless it is basically the same as the IFR. (For example the CFR and IFR for breast cancer are virtually identical). They thought they were the same for the WuFlu as well and they were wrong. As were most other researchers. But by early April, when I posted, it was clear to all and sundry (except one or two low-information dills - no names but their initials are SR) that the IFR was significantly lower than the CFR.

Look SR, I get that the logic of this is too much for you. I get that as soon as numbers are introduced, your eyes glaze over. You'll just have to trust the experts that your don't use the CFR for models, you use the IFR.

You should also note that I didn't say they got the CFR wrong, I said they got the "fatality rate" (ie the IFR) wrong.

BTW, the NSW CFR is 1.3%. I assume you'll want to ignore that.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 13 September 2020 9:59:41 AM
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"BTW Can't help but notice that you're pretending to not notice all the monumental errors you made in this thread alone."

You see ** Foxy **, this is how SR thinks you should operate. Remember when he advised that you shouldn't admit error. Well that's how SR does it.

Make a monumental error (or in this case a series of errors) and then just pretend to not notice. Not only don't acknowledge the error, don't even acknowledge the existence of the erroneous post. Just pretend the original posts don't exist.

But it gets even more bonkers than that. Because you haven't acknowledged anything, you can later claim the opposite. So in a month or three if the issue gets raised again, SR will not only deny error but assert the opposite - that he was utterly vindicated.

Its that level of self-deception that SR follows.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 13 September 2020 10:06:54 AM
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mhaze,

How to be a grown up on this forum:

Replace "Denial" and blaming others

With - " OK, I admit it!" or

"OK Great!"
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 13 September 2020 10:18:26 AM
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Oh well, Mhazing Gracefully,

Revelations nothwithstanding, pile upon pile, 'He's the Man'.

So goes the 'mantra' of the ever-faithful.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

CDC, evil dark forces, never to be trusted.

Truth equals Trump, and take no prisoners.

The world awaits the next 'proclamation' with ever such bated breath.
Posted by Saltpetre, Sunday, 13 September 2020 1:19:00 PM
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Dear Saltpetre,

Do You wait with bated breath
or baited breath?

BATED OR BAITED?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 13 September 2020 4:07:36 PM
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Dear mhaze,

You are getting rather shrill young lad.

Appealing to Foxy to get the big bad Steeleredux to stop is just childish.

You seem determined not to answer a very simple couple of questions.

Were WHO wrong when they said; “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died.” ?

And does Victoria currently have a CFR above that figure?

I'm even prepared to lay off the fact you clearly stated the figure was wrong. Perhaps you were indeed really talking about the implied IFR. I wholeheartedly doubt it but concede there is the tiniest of possibilities.

There you go. No excuses. Let's hear it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 13 September 2020 6:38:28 PM
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SR wrote: "Appealing to Foxy to get the big bad Steeleredux to stop is just childish."

Au contraire....I was merely referring to your previous bizarre post to Foxy to explain why you are so determined to pretend to not notice the monumental errors you've made here.

"You seem determined not to answer a very simple couple of questions."

Quite the chutzpah there from the chap who is determined to ignore all invitation to own up.

But not avoiding the questions, just pointing out that the questions are inappropriately based as they are on your utter misunderstanding of the issue.

"Were WHO wrong when they said; “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died.” ?

No. But they were wrong to use that number in the models, which is what I pointed out then and now, and which seems to be bafflingly difficult for you to understand.

"And does Victoria currently have a CFR above that figure?"

Yes, as does New York, Tasmania and for all I know Upper Kumbakta West.

"I'm even prepared to lay off the fact you clearly stated the figure was wrong."

Translation: the penny has dropped and we are now in the phase where SR tries to get out with what he considers some self-respect.
Bon chance
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 14 September 2020 4:54:23 PM
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Jesus, who gives a FF ?
Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 14 September 2020 5:35:05 PM
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Reading some people's posts - one can get the
impression that what's written in the message to
which they are responding is not the opinion of
the original respondent but the views of the person
posting through their own filters and perspectives.

Many of us pick out what we want to see and hear.

Trying to explain and validate one's opinion is
usually a waste of time to someone who's not going to
listen anyway and is just waiting to respond.

In cases like those - the best opinions are the ones
that remain unexpressed. It's therefore a good idea
to move on and do something more meaningful for yourself
under these circumstances.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 14 September 2020 5:47:15 PM
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Dear Joe,

You've said it!

You can't imagine the immensity of the F!*k we
don't give!
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 14 September 2020 5:50:06 PM
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Thanks Foxy (I think),

Only 51 days (our time) to go ! At current rates, that means more than forty thousand more dead from Trumpf's incompetence and bungling of the prompt handling of this epidemic, his shutting his eyes to the horror of nasty things like disease and death, on top of the current 194,000. So somewhere around 234,000 by Nov 3.

And then inaction between the election and inauguration of Joe Biden, another 78 days. That might mean another seventy thousand deaths before Biden takes charge and, presumably, in the first week, imposes stricter and more co-ordinated procedures.

So Biden will inherit around 300,000 deaths from Trumpf's Folly. More American deaths than in any War.

I only hope Biden works much more closely with the States instead of constantly passing the buck like this covidiot.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 14 September 2020 6:31:32 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Well progress at walking frame pace, but progress none the less.

So when you said “At the outset, WHO was giving a fatality rate of 3.4%. It was this number, which is now shown to be completely wrong, that was originally fed into models to achieve the early dire death numbers.” you clearly misspoke. WHO clearly identified it as the CFR and you have provided no evidence they took it for the IFR.

Given herd immunity is likely to require 60% of the population being infected, and even allowing for the fact that the nursing home toll is likely skewing the figures, at a rough estimate as CFR of even 3% would mean around 120,000 Victorians losing their lives if we let this thing have its head and many more suffering serious debilitating conditions requiring months if not years of rehabilitation.

Is this what you are advocating? Even if you don't accept the figures what number do you deem acceptable.

Dear Hasbeen,

Yes please. Leave Victoria to us Victorians mate. Don't need you northerners dragging down the highest life expectancy figures in the nation.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3302.0.55.001
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 14 September 2020 7:19:45 PM
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Donald Trump Policy
– originalist judges,
– pro-life policies,
– a stronger military,
– a free-market economic system,
– lower taxes,
– fewer government regulations,
– strong support for Israel,
– clearheaded recognition of the economic, military, and information threat of China
– a high value placed on human freedom,
– personal accountability for committing crimes,
– good jobs and school choice as the best way to help the poor,
– a strong border wall and a secure border, followed by a comprehensive reform of our immigration system,
– careful extraction and clean use of carbon-based fuels (coal, oil, natural gas),
– freedom of conscience (government should not force Christians to use their artistic skills to convey a message of approval of same-sex marriage or to use their medical skills to perform an abortion, or to use their pharmacies as the distribution point for drugs that cause abortion),
– racial inequalities in income and quality of education should primarily be solved by
– greater availability of tax-supported school choice in low-income neighborhoods,
– economic growth resulting in more and better jobs, and
– an increase in safety through an increase in police presence in high crime neighborhoods
– medical marijuana should be allowed (with a prescription from a doctor) but recreational marijuana should be prohibited, and
– restrooms, locker rooms, and single-gender sports teams should be restricted to people of one biological sex or the other.

Biden Policies
On the other hand, I fail to see how an evangelical Christian who believes in the moral values of the Bible could support the increasingly far-left Democratic Party. How could Christian in good conscience support a party that promotes laws and policies that
Cont.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 14 September 2020 8:29:37 PM
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allow abortion up to the moment of birth,
– authorize the use of our tax money to pay for abortions and gender reassignment surgery,
– cripple our economy with ever-increasing government control and taxes,
– further cripple the economy with expensive Green New Deal energy regulations,
– increase unemployment,
– weaken our military in the face of increased aggressiveness by China,
– promote a Jimmy Carter-like foreign policy of appeasement,
– abandon Israel to fend for itself,
– nullify the Senate filibuster rule (both Obama and Biden have recently spoken about this) so that all legislation can be passed with only 50 senators plus the vice president casting the tie-breaking vote,
– support the rising influence of judges who are not constrained by the original meaning of the words of the Constitution or of the laws, perhaps even adding six additional seats to the Supreme Court in order to be able to give the court a new 10-5 majority of such justices (this could be done with control of both the House, the Senate, and the presidency)
– grant statehood to both Washington DC and Puerto Rico, thus adding four more Democrats to the U.S. Senate (I have heard three US senators already predict that the Democrats would do this if they had the votes)
– support draconian laws that compel an artistic professional or a professional counselor to affirm the validity of same-sex marriage even when that is contrary to the professional person’s conscience,
– reinstate the Obama-era guidelines that required schools to allow biological males who claim to be transgender females to use girls’ bathrooms, locker rooms, and showers (the guidelines were canceled by Trump),
– allow biological males to compete in women’s sports, setting new statewide records in women’s track events and other sports
– pass multiple new, extremely strict green energy laws that will massively increase energy costs and therefore will also increase the cost of everything that is made or transported with the use of energy,
cont
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 14 September 2020 8:30:45 PM
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Biden
– seek to defund the police (to be precise, Biden has said he favors “redirecting” some police funding to other programs, which is a partial “defunding” of police, which will lead predictably to a substantial increase in crime),
– use violence and intimidation to nullify freedom of speech (in practice) for those who disagree with them politically,
– support open borders and sanctuary cities in defiance of the law, and that
– promote a complete federal government takeover of our healthcare system.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 14 September 2020 8:31:12 PM
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Osama-bin-Laden's niece is a Trump supporter.

http://nypost.com/2020/09/05/osama-bin-ladens-niece-says-only-trump-can-prevent-another-9-11/?fbclid=IwAR3EtsPod-TuF90il9qQcCHipLE1tFmN43JlGj6olJukT2DBPlyAkOeQl70
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 14 September 2020 8:40:16 PM
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Some light relief (set to the sublime Beatles tune):

"Get By With A Little Help From The Feds" Trump vs Cuomo http://youtu.be/VD0qzFuL_d0
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 14 September 2020 11:27:06 PM
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Wow Josephus, you are completely deluded. Astonishing.

How you can actually believe any of that fake news you posted really beggars belief.

Or are you really just pulling our leg? Ha, ha.

The worst of that mountain of detritus is your unconscionable unjust maligning of Joe Biden - a genuine Christian who actually appears intent on reining-back the excessively lax abortion laws operating in some States, and who is fully intent on fixing the economy and law and order the right way. A truly honest gentleman, not at all like the Trumpster.

Trump on the other hand reveals himself to be a faux Christian, is intent on mass environmental destruction in sheer undisguised pursuit of votes and dollars for himself and his mates, and doesn't actually give one toss about human rights the legal system or the sanctity of life - unless any of that can be of direct benefit to himself.
A narcissist extraordinaire and pathological liar.

I really feel sorry for you Josephus, and for all others who may be suffering similar illusions.
I can only wish you well and hope things may work out a lot better than you imagine they can.
Posted by Saltpetre, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 1:02:08 AM
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Josephus,
The Democratic Party is not "far left" at all - by the standards of most western countries it's right of centre.

America's abortion laws are not very effective at reducing the numbers of abortions. It would be far better to address the problem of women being (or perceiving they are) unable to succeed in life if they become mothers at the wrong time.

You seem to be so blinded by rightwing slogans that you've failed to recognise that energy economics have changed. The green options have largely become the cheaper options, but doing nothing is often the most profitable course of action for existing energy companies. A Green New Deal would revive, not cripple, the economy.

BTW, why do you say "our economy" when this is an Australian board? If you've copied this from an American site, please provide attribution!

If Pueto Rico wants statehood, would the GOP deny it?

Biden has previously described "defund the police" as "the stupidest slogan ever". However, unlike you (or whoever's claims you're ripping off) he understands that there are more effective ways of preventing crime than an ever stronger police presence.

And it's likely a federal government takeover of the US healthcare system would make it more efficient. What do you have against that?
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 2:36:42 AM
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Dear Josephus,

"authorize the use of our tax money to pay for abortions and gender reassignment surgery"

Here is some news, it's not your tax money and while he might be your president you can't vote for Trump.

Sheesh mate you really have let the koolaid cult draw you in. Snap out of it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 11:25:09 AM
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SR wrote: "you clearly misspoke. WHO clearly identified it as the CFR and you have provided no evidence they took it for the IFR."

I provided two pieces of evidence: 1) I posted a link and pulled out the relevant quote (twice, to make it easier for you) showing that in the early days they thought CFR and IFR were roughly the same value. That you didn't read or comprehend that point is the problem here. 2) the simple point that you don't use CFR in models.

"Is this what you are advocating? "

I wasn't advocating anything here, SR. You simply pulled out this poor attempt to find an error in my past posts as a way to try to deflect from the monumental errors you made in this thread....fail.

"Given herd immunity is likely to require 60% of the population being infected, and even allowing for the fact that the nursing home toll is likely skewing the figures, at a rough estimate as CFR of even 3%..."

See, again you get yourself utterly confused between CFR and IFR. Best to avoid numbers SR. I won't try too hard explain it to you since you care little and understand less. But simply, if 60% of the population were infected, somewhere around 90% of them would be asymptomatic or have such mild symptoms that they wouldn't be tested and therefore wouldn't become cases. Your numbers are wrong by orders of magnitude.

Will we add that to the list of monumental errors you've made here? I've lost count.

But stand-by for one of SR's famous "when I said it was white, it was obvious I meant it was black and how dare you suggest I didn't know it was blue" defences.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 12:11:41 PM
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The policies I posted came from the analysis done by a Professor of Political science in America, based on the current Republican and Democratic teams views.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 1:05:57 PM
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Josephus,
What you posted was more delusional spin than policy, and attributing it to an anonymous professor of political science doesn't tell us much.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 2:40:21 PM
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Gidday Josephus

Have tracked down "your" whole blocks of text, at first, non-attributed, then incorrectly attributed (here http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9249&page=0#310681 ) to an alleged "POLITICAL SCIENCE" professor. See below:

Looks like the Professor you haven't attributed your whole blocks of COMMENTS/text, is:

- Wayne Grudem, Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Phoenix, Arizona.

- specifically Quotes from his website http://www.waynegrudem.com/

- specifically including his "ISSUES IN THE 2020 ELECTION"

- specifically including http://www.waynegrudem.com/letter-to-an-anti-trump-christian-friend

When http://www.waynegrudem.com/letter-to-an-anti-trump-christian-friend is downloaded as a WORD file

J will recognise the Title:

"Letter to an Anti-Trump Christian Friend...of...Aug. 5, 2020..."

J will recognise such BLOCKS OF TEXT lifted, from Page 8, as:

"- allow abortion up to the moment of birth,
- authorize the use of our tax money to pay for abortions and gender reassignment surgery,
- cripple our economy with ever-increasing government control and taxes,
- further cripple the economy with expensive Green New Deal energy regulations,
- increase unemployment,
- weaken our military in the face of increased aggressiveness by China,
- promote a Jimmy Carter-like foreign policy of appeasement,
- abandon Israel to fend for itself,
- nullify the Senate filibuster rule (both Obama and Biden have recently spoken about this) so that all legislation can be passed with only 50 senators plus the vice president casting the tie-breaking vote," etc

Which J, at first, copied as his own work (without attribution) at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9249&page=0#310653

We of this OLO thread await what J will lift next without attribution OR incorrect attribution.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 3:03:41 PM
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Donald Trump is a historical genius! According to The Donald, President Andrew Jackson was very concerned about the American Civil War. Was trump channelling Jackson from up somewhere in the "Sky"? Jackson died 8th June 1845, and the American Civil War began 12th April 1861 about 16 years later. The Donald should stick to buying Greenland, and give history a miss.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 6:40:39 PM
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Maybe Donald Trump has much the same attitude towards African Americans as his hero Andrew Jackson.

"Jackson owned many slaves. One controversy during his presidency was his reaction to anti-slavery tracts. During his campaign for the presidency, he faced criticism for being a slave trader. He did not free his slaves in his will."
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 9:01:13 PM
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Hi Josephus

You seem to have now clammed up, so haven't answered my digging http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9249&page=0#310692

Or do you live in Arizona USA, so its bedy-bize time?

Cheers
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 15 September 2020 9:13:22 PM
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plantagenet,
I read the article and could not later find the source.
Kamala Harris the vice President, who will step in for Joe Biden, is far more communist than Bernie Sanders and a threat to American freedoms.

The Center for Medical Progress’s David Daleiden, who helped expose Planned Parenthood’s harvesting and sale of fetal body parts in 2015, spoke out after Joe Biden announced California Sen. Kamala Harris would be his running mate.

“Lots of people are asking me what I think of the news,” he said on Twitter. “[Kamala Harris] is the greatest threat to First Amendment civil rights our country has ever seen. I know because she had my home raided for speaking the truth about her political patrons at Planned Parenthood.”

Lila Rose
@LilaGraceRose
BREAKING: Biden has picked Kamala Harris to run as his VP

Harris abused her power as CA Attorney General to raid the home of @daviddaleiden. She prosecuted pro-life journalists when they dared investigate @ppfa’s selling of baby parts. She supports killing babies up until birth.
6:41 AM · Aug 12, 2020

There is evidence that babies born alive in Planned Parenthood are kept alive so body parts when harvested are fresh.

http://www.lifenews.com/2020/08/12/kamala-harris-raided-david-daleidens-home-for-exposing-planned-parenthood-selling-aborted-baby-parts/
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 9:07:24 AM
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The facts Kamala Harris supports, and prosicutes for making it public knowledge.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/abortion-doctor-admits-sold-baby-parts-often-came-from-babies-born-alive

In an unprecedented hearing in California this week featuring Planned Parenthood executives and the undercover videos made by the Center for Medical Progress, abortion doctors revealed uncomfortable truths about the industry. In one such testimony, Forrest Smith, an obstetrician-gynecologist who performed abortions in California, testified not only that Planned Parenthood and other abortion clinics were selling aborted baby parts for profit, but babies were often born alive, then murdered, in order to ensure the organs to be sold were more fresh and intact.

Smith, who said he had done at least 50,000 abortions, testified that based on what he saw in the videos and what he knows about the abortion industry, he believes doctors performed abortion procedures so that babies would be born alive, even though it puts the mother at greater risk.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 9:14:00 AM
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Paul,

If you'd read past the (2017!!) headline, you'd have seen that Trump was referring to the period before the shooting war, the so-called cold civil war. But you didn't.

Although Trump admires the admirable Jackson, that doesn't mean he has to go along with every aspect of Jackson's life eg slavery.

For example, do you go along with your hero's, Karl Marx, antisemitism? Which is barely distinguishable from that of Hitler. Or his racism.."the common Negro type is the degenerate form of a much higher one.."?
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 10:01:59 AM
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Dear Paul,

Here's a link that explains things:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201609/the-psychology-behind-donald-trumps-unwavering-support
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 11:45:47 AM
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@Josephus

A rather weak response from you, on the occasion of proof of your plagiarism http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9249&page=0#310692 isn't it?

As you are just another American, pro-Trump extremist, trolling a perfectly good,

Australian forum, at least you could try to be an original, Ben Dover chum-boy of Trump.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 1:19:42 PM
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Hi Foxy

Well spotted ie. the Psychology Today article of September 13, 2016 at http://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201609/the-psychology-behind-donald-trumps-unwavering-support

titled:

"The Psychology Behind Donald Trump's Unwavering Support Research explains why Donald Trump maintains support despite shocking behavior."

It is even more relevant today than in 2016.

Since then Trump has proven himself a snake oil fraud who lets his citizens die in Covid Droves while he plays golf at his country retreats.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 1:53:31 PM
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There you go Paul. Don't worry about the facts. Don't bother reading the full story. Don't try to find out both sides.

Just go and find the ravings of some partisan who'll tell you comforting fairy-tales and convince yourself you know what's going on.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 2:02:56 PM
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Dear Pete,

I think that former Republican Arizona Senator and
War hero John McCain summed things up rather well
when he stated that Trump fires up the "crazies".

Poor America. Sadly until they either improve
their Electoral College system or abolish it - guys
like Trump will continue to get in.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 2:11:53 PM
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Hi Foxy & Pete,

Never a dull moment in this circus: here's Trumpf in that right-wing rag, The Guardian:

"Trump says Covid-19 will 'go away' because of 'herd mentality'.

"US President Donald Trump has given a town hall [interview] in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

"This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

“It would go away without the vaccine George,” he said speaking to ABC journalist George Stephanopoulos. “With time it goes away. And you’ll develop like a herd mentality. It’s going to be herd developed, and that’s going to happen. That will all happen.”"

That paper, Foxy, mentioned the fascination with what might come next. Does Trumpf orchestrate these sorts of idiocies ? You think, what next ? How much dumber can he get ? And then he does.

Or is it infantile wishful-thinking ? I don't want there to be nasty aminals, so there won't be. And much of his political base supporters are - sorry, Josephus - equally geared to childish wishful thinking.

On postal voting rather than in-person voting: I can't see many Republicans standing in line for hours in early Winter, with the virus still raging. What's the bet that amazingly few votes will be counted on Election Night itself ? But trump- will still, come hell or high water, claim victory and try to shut down any further counting.

The US - a circus that keeps on giving.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 2:12:18 PM
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yes those terrible 'deplorables' Joe. How 'stupid' were they not to vote for Hilary. I mean what a fine specimen she is.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 3:49:14 PM
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Hilary certainly got the name right -
" Deplorables" sounds about right, but then
"crazies" is a good fit as well.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 3:52:13 PM
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sure Nancy oh sorry Foxy!
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 4:37:18 PM
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That's to be expected from you Donald,
sorry runner.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 4:59:21 PM
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cont'd ...

And the reference is to Donald Duck, not Trump
although in runner's case the difference is
not as clear.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 5:00:41 PM
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Hi Foxy, from your link;

"The only thing that might be more perplexing than the psychology of Donald Trump is the psychology of his supporters. In their eyes, The Donald can do no wrong."

One of the astonishing features of Trumpets (those darling little Trump supporters) is they seem to be oblivious to the outrages things he comes out with, and the blatant lies he tells. They are oblivious to his lack of intelligence. Trump has some innate quality that despite the nonsense he utters the Trumpets are drawn to him, a bit like Hitler and Stalin. Of cause many of these supporters are predisposed to being racists, haters and bigots to begin with.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 5:09:40 PM
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Dear Paul,

Many of Trump's supporters are as the link made
clear totally unaware of the fact that they are
not being given the full information or the facts.
They believe what they are told and don't seem
to have the capacity to question any of it.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 16 September 2020 6:09:50 PM
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Trumps tally of losers and suckers dead from coronavirus in United States officially passed 200,000 this morning. (200,974). Total official cases heads towards 7,000,000.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 17 September 2020 5:57:52 AM
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So you Joe Biden Democrat supporters fully support a party who vice President Kamala Harris, who will step in for Joe, supports planned parenthood aborting live full term babies so their body parts can be sold, and as an attorney General prosecutes and seizes the property of Center for Medical Progress’s David Daleiden who exposed it.

Forrest Smith, an obstetrician-gynecologist who performed abortions in California, testified not only that Planned Parenthood and other abortion clinics were selling aborted baby parts for profit, but babies were often born alive, then murdered, in order to ensure the organs to be sold were more fresh and intact.

You certainly are a macabre lot.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 17 September 2020 7:29:47 AM
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Some of the things that people like Foxy, Paul, LM an SR have fallen for over the past few years:

* The Russian collusion story
* The Steele dossier
* The Flynn collusion story
* The story that Trump had early access to the Wikileaks email dump
* Koi-gate
* The upside down bible
* The debunked Kavanaugh rape stories
* The Warren was an Indian
* The Charlottesville doctored quote
* The story of MLK's bust

Plus countless other made-up anti-Trump fables.
And all that's before we start talking about things like Foxy completely misunderstanding the Electoral College processes, or Paul/LM falling for the story about China moving troops to their borders to counter Trump etc.
And let's not forget that the claims that started this thread have fallen apart but were fervently believed by the usual suspects.

Yet despite all this evidence of monumental gullibility, these people somehow convince themselves that the people who DIDN'T fall for these fables are psychologically damaged fools.

There's no point trying to set them straight...they are beyond reason.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 17 September 2020 8:46:14 AM
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Dear Josephus,

My God man you are so far off the reservation that I think you are lost to us and I really don't know how to help.

Perhaps you might reflect on this message from a Methodist minister;

“"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you.

You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.

Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 17 September 2020 9:50:43 AM
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mhaze,

Read the following link - it explains who in actually
fact is "beyond reason":

http://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201609/the-psychology-behind-donald-trumps-unwavering-support
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 17 September 2020 10:32:06 AM
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cont'd ...

Sadly - it's YOU!
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 17 September 2020 10:32:58 AM
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Foxy & SR,

Only 48 days to go (our time ) !

In the US, presidential elections effectively elect both a president and a vice-president: I'm a bit indifferent to Biden (he's my age, for god's sake !) but I have very high hopes for, and trust in, Kamala Harris.

Biden is more or less healthy, so he may run through his entire term with fewer disasters than Trumpf has inflicted on their poor country, so Harris may have to use those first four years to thoroughly understand the job, before she wins the 2024 and 2028 elections. I certainly wish her well.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 17 September 2020 10:41:30 AM
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Dear mhaze,

You were comprehensively torched on virtually all those but whenever evidence is placed under your nose you sniff at it, turn away, and go back to your adulation of your president. We could rinse and repeat if you like but given you are intent on drinking from the same cup as Josephus I'm not sure it would be all that productive. You struggle with the slightest bit of nuance unless it is the last bit of obfuscation you can employ to avoid admitting you stuffed up.

You did not provide a quote from WHO as you implied, rather one from an opinion piece. WHO's figure was not wrong and you have provided no evidence they directly asserted an IFR from it.

But tell me, you were once crowing that;

“Virtually every day brings new reductions in projections of the severity of the virus..."By Wednesday, the projection dropped the estimated total deaths to 60,415, revised down from 81,766 deaths, which was revised from down 93,531, a revised number itself.”
...
“So just like a normal flu season.”

Now that it has passed 200,000 are we able to include it in your list of getting it wrong yet again?

Also I was a bit bemused by your upside down bible. Turns out it blew up because the orange buffoon himself tweeted this out;

“A @FoxNews commentator just ripped me with lies, with nobody defending. They talked about “friendly” protesters (they set the Church on fire the day before. They were anything but friendly), and how I stood and held the Bible upside down – it wasn't upside down. @edhenry”

He held it the correct way up but this was mentioned on Fox News which he watches religiously and it was his response which drove the story of one of the most rightwing news outlets in the country.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 17 September 2020 11:06:42 AM
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I feel like I'm back in primary school with Foxy's "I know you are but what am I" attempted refutation.

That's the third time the link to that article has been posted on this thread. Clearly Foxy et al want it to be true. Indeed they need it to be true.

You see, these people have convinced themselves that they are smarter, more cognoscente than those stupid Trump supporters. So every time they get it wrong, its a body blow to their already fragile self-esteem. So Foxy finds someone who is similarly looking for a salve for his self-esteem and asserts that they really are smarter than the Trumpites and desperately sighs that they have proof.

But what evidence does that article provide? None.

It simply asserts (a claim without evidence) that the Trumpites are wrong and then makes up 'reasons' to explain that. But it doesn't SHOW they are wrong.

Unlike the Foxy's et al who, as I showed, constantly get it wrong and then move on, having learned nothing, to the next anti-Trump assertion.

They've spent the past half decade (at least) desperately misunderstanding the world around them and need reassurance that they didn't.

Josephus,

It seems, according to the increasingly fraught SR, that its impossible to advocate for the unborn AND advocate for the "the sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans?". It seems its gotta be one or t'other. Just pick one and all the others have to be thrown under the bus. Quite why you can't advocate for multiple groups is unclear but if a Methodist minister says it, who are we to argue?

Dills.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 17 September 2020 12:05:48 PM
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mhaze,

You still don't get it.

Anyone but Trump!

The man's unfit for office.

It's that simple!

Stop joining the crazies.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 17 September 2020 12:10:39 PM
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SR,

I'll do the bible story first since its the easiest and therefore even you have a chance to understand it.

A while back Paul/LM were jollying it up that Trump had held up an upside down bible. What he fool he is, eh? The usual assertions that Trump gets it wrong and all his followers are fools. They'd apparently got it from some meme machine and they'd accepted it without the need to check.

So I went and found the actual photos and showed that they'd got it wrong. As is their want (like your's) they didn't acknowledge or comment on their laughable error, just moved on to the next screw-up.

_________________________________________________________________

You now say I got the projections wrong. But don't show that.

Were the projections as I posted them or not? Answer...I correctly listed those projections. That the projections were wrong is a different issue. The problem was that, at the time, no one realised how badly the democrat states were going to screw-up.

As to it being a normal flu season, in the case of Australia it has been, at least in terms of deaths.

_________________________________________________________________

So SR, you're going to try to skate over the fact that you hopelessly, comically, ignoramously, got confused between the CFR and IFR when you tried to work out potential Victorian death rate. As I said, SR, you should avoid using numbers wherever possible. It just makes you look even more foolish.

But it did serve to prove that you don't know what the difference between the two (CFR/IFR) is and therefore why you're so confused about the WHO's earlier errors.

I've really lost interest in trying to educate you on this. You see, if you had come back acknowledging any one of the monumental errors you've made in this thread, especially that last hilarious one, then there'd be some hope that education might help. But alas...
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 17 September 2020 12:25:06 PM
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TRUMP AHEAD BY 1% (WITH 4% UNDECIDED) ACCORDING TO A VERY SIGNIFICANT POLLSTER

Good news is that the collective polls at http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

indicate Biden is a reduced 6.9% ahead.
_____________

Bad news is that Rusmussen Reports,

that was a very accurate pollster in 2016 http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/how_we_did

NOW INDICATES http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/white_house_watch_sep16

"Trump Takes First Lead Wednesday, September 16, 2020

President Trump has now edged to a one-point lead over Democratic nominee Joe Biden in the latest Rasmussen Reports’ weekly White House Watch survey. While statistically insignificant, it’s the first time Trump has been ahead.

The new national telephone and online survey finds the president with a 47% to 46% lead over Biden among Likely U.S. Voters. Three percent (3%) prefer some other candidate, while four percent (4%) remain undecided..."

"Undecided" is always a critical, but unpredicatable, element in polling.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 17 September 2020 12:32:10 PM
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mhaze, I just read an article that persons who previously voted Democrats are leaving their former position and switching to Republicans. Imagine the civil war that Democrats will instigate if Trump wins.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 17 September 2020 12:43:55 PM
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Further to the comment above, at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9249&page=0#310837

I'd say that after initial optimism Trump would receive a well-earned loss, a Trump win is now a 50/50 proposition.

The dynamics of non-compulsory voting are different and more prone to deliver surprises.

Trumps mainly white, male, working to middle class BASE feel embattled and are encouraged to vote for him. They don't fear the rigged postal delays or stand for hours in the rain/snow for booths in Democrat leaning areas.

Their concerns are more continuity and management of what's Good For The Economy/Their Own Jobs than small "l" liberal causes or foreign policy.

Also the US electorate historically vote for the President "Devil" they know - meaning TWO TERMS.

Hence in recent history:

Two term Presidents have included:

- Reagan

- (Bill) Clinton

- (George W.) Bush, and

- Obama.

So I'd say that after initial optimism Trump will lose, a Trump win is now a 50/50 proposition.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 17 September 2020 6:49:57 PM
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Oh don't forget the Russians and Ukrainians plantagenet.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 17 September 2020 6:56:18 PM
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To date in 2020, 43 law enforcement officers have been murdered, shot by Democratic supporters, while protecting property. Behind the scenes there is a Marxist revolution planned for November, to overthrow the American Constitution.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 17 September 2020 8:06:40 PM
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Just listened to the five polls of Left wing media report on Biden Trump election. Normally between 21% and 32% are independent voters, but the polls do not reflect the independent vote. All the polls have rigged the result to have Biden winning, so if Trump wins they will say Trump rigged the Election. They will challenge the result as it does not reflect the polls. As also Left wing professors are blaming Trump for things like covid-19 deaths etc. Building a pre-election case for a challenge if Trump wins. Triggering an attempt at a Marxist coup / revolution. The rioting and burning at the moment is a precursor to a more vicious planned conflict. Kamala Harris will rise above Joe in this event as she is a Marxist. Joe will stand back as he further develops dementia.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-17/americans-anti-democratic-sentiment-bartels

http://www.fitsnews.com/2020/09/14/decision-2020-are-the-fake-polls-back/

http://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 17 September 2020 9:01:22 PM
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Fr Jose' would you like to provide evidence of you outrageous claims. You are sinking to a level that smacks of utter desperation! Democratic supporters, Marxist revolutionaries, indeed. I suggest you either get your hand off it, and put it back into your pants where it belongs!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 17 September 2020 9:02:02 PM
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Josephus, that's the most idiotic conspiracy theory yet!

It's likely whoever appears to lose the election will try to challenge if they can find grounds to. But the result not matching the polls isn't the legal grounds for a challenge. You only have to look at what happened in 2016 to see that!

> Left wing professors are blaming Trump for things like covid-19 deaths etc.
Don't they have a point? His handling of the situation was really inept.

Joe Biden wouldn't be running for president if he had dementia. And as for a marxist coup, do you honestly believe that accusation isn't utterly stupid? Surely even the Trump supporters don't need it explained why it is?
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 17 September 2020 10:43:07 PM
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Aidan,
Kamila Harris is a communist who wants to remove the first two amendments of the American constitution. She has a record of silencing those that have exposed infant murder for body parts, and she wants society eradicated of the right to weapons for self defence. American society is polarized and the millennials have irrational fears.

This will only happen in a revolution!
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 18 September 2020 8:13:57 AM
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Hi, I've received a notice from Google that this discussion potentially violates their community standards. Wondered if I could crowd-source what that might be, because I can't see anything particular about this thread. Anyone got any ideas?
Posted by GrahamY, Friday, 18 September 2020 8:24:01 AM
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Linking the unlawful deaths of 48 police officers in the US to a particular political party, without evidence, might be viewed as potentially violating Google community standards, whatever they are. Just as bad as linking the same to, say the Girl Guides or Boys Scouts without evidence. Google being an American mob, may have different standards that apply to what can be said about Americans, than say Chinese. But I don't know Comrade, all seems harmless rubbish to me.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 18 September 2020 9:33:45 AM
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The deaths of 43 Police officers are linked to persons in Democratic governed States whose Governors are promoting defunding the Police, by propagating a view that all Police are criminals, so they are being shot at by protesters indiscriminately.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/los-angeles-deputies-shot-tom-homan
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 18 September 2020 10:13:31 AM
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pro abortionist always deny or justify murdering. That is why planned parenthood and democrats are in bed together. Also Bill Gates parents were involved heavily in planned parenthood. Totally untrustworthy.
Posted by runner, Friday, 18 September 2020 10:36:45 AM
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Hi Graham,

Google as you know does have community guidelines.
A code of conduct - where they stress that:

"Discussions that make other Googlers feel like they
don't belong have no place here".

They stress the following 3 main points:

1) Respect the user.
2) Respect the opportunity.
3) Respect each other.

"You are responsible for your words and your reach".

Perhaps some comments that have been made on this discussion
and perhaps the other one about that pregnant lady in
Ballarat as well contravened their guidelines and they've
issued the warnings to make us all more aware of how and
what we post.

Just guessing. It wouldn't hurt any of us to be more
careful with what and how we post. We've all had a great
run thus far.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 18 September 2020 10:53:38 AM
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cont'd ...

Dear Graham,

Perhaps instead of looking for alternative sources
of financing to replace Google - all we need to do
is improve our posting styles?

It wouldn't hurt to at least try.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 18 September 2020 10:56:35 AM
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Dear Graham,

It's also occurred to me that some of our "Aussie"
way of expressing ourselves which is part of our
lingo may seem objectionable in some countries and
especially to Americans who are not used to it.
Especially the use of abusive words.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 18 September 2020 11:16:30 AM
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Most respectfully, Dear Mr Former Vice-President Joseph Biden,

Would it be acceptable if you perhaps could try being a little more assertive in your speeches?
Just a thought, as I really believe the American people and your Nation's stability and prosperity really need you to win the upcoming Presidential election.

Also, do you think you might commit to only increasing the taxes of the big corporates and the 1% of top income earners - of course only being phased-in in gentle steps, and only after you have speedily restored the country and business back on-track due to your speedy and determined lifting of lock-downs and restrictions occasioned by the corona-virus?

Also, as the most reliable health advice is saying that the wearing of face-masks is definitely most effective in limiting virus-spread, might you possibly be able to promise the people that if they would commit to wearing face-masks and keep reasonable social-distancing - of say perhaps two arm-lengths when eating or drinking - and could please all abstain from all intimacy for, say, three months, then you would guarantee to lift all restrictions and release all available national support funding to boost the economy and jobs immediately at the end of those three months?
That would be a sure vote winner.

Please take care Mr Former Vice-President, as I very much look forward to you taking firm control of the Nation's wellbeing.

PS. Could you please reassure all America's allies of your commitment to having good discussions with all of them on the best way forward to global peace, security and economic prosperity for all?
And also, please, don't say anything about the UK's Brexit. Boris can handle it, and he has Australia's former Prime Minister The Honourable Tony Abbott to assist him if needs be.

Thank you, I wish you the very best of luck, and God Speed.

Oh, and one more thing, an idea for a call to making America really great again - "Dump Trump, Dump Trump".
Can't hurt, hey?
(America and the free world need you, Joe. God bless you, Joe.)
Posted by Saltpetre, Friday, 18 September 2020 12:22:25 PM
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With respect to Google:

A guy walks into a bar and orders a schooner of beer, two pickled onions and a nip of scotch.
He downs the beer, puts one pickled onion behind each ear, drinks the whisky, pays his tab, and walks out.
A couple of days later the guy walks into the same bar and orders his schooner of beer, two pickled onions and a nip of scotch - but the barman says unfortunately he has run out of pickled onions, so would gherkins do?
The guy says ok. Then he drinks his beer, places one gherkin behind each ear, downs the scotch, pays his tab, and goes to walk out - but the barman calls him back and asks "What's with the gherkins?"
And, the guy replies "Well, you've run out of pickled onions, haven't you", and turns and walks out.

Life's too short, and worry gets you nowhere.
(Good luck, Joe and Kamala.)
Posted by Saltpetre, Friday, 18 September 2020 2:06:47 PM
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Re GrahamY's question

Google's Terms and Policies site here http://support.google.com/googlecurrents/answer/9680387?hl=en seems to spell it pretty clearly.

Especially:

"3. Hate Speech"
"Our products are platforms for free expression, but we don’t permit hate speech. Hate speech is content that promotes or condones violence against or has the primary purpose of inciting hatred against an individual or group on the basis of their race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, age, nationality, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or any other characteristic that is associated with systemic discrimination or marginalization."

Someone said that - Linking the unlawful deaths of 48 police officers in the US to a particular political party, without evidence, might be viewed as potentially violating Google community standards, whatever they are.

But any libertarians etc on this thread, might not choose to recognise such regulations or reasons for. It all goes down to matters of degree and subjectivity.

Google, being a very American outfit, may be aware of balances between rights and guns etc in highly contested political confrontations, not here so much as in the USA right now.
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 18 September 2020 7:47:25 PM
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Dear Pete,

Interesting news this morning.

The following link explains:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-19/assange-lawyer-claims-trump-offered-us-pardon/12680462
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 19 September 2020 11:39:18 AM
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I'm not sure what you think the link explains other than Assange's legal team doing their job....

OTOH...

Interesting news this morning.

The following link explains:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-supreme-court-nominee-vote-floor
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 19 September 2020 1:01:47 PM
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Hi Foxy

1. Thanks for http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-19/assange-lawyer-claims-trump-offered-us-pardon/12680462 Trump's actions are predictable.

Since 2016 Russian intelligence (specifically the sigint/cyber hacking arm of Russian Military Intelligence (GRU)) passed Democrat database secrets to Wikileaks.

Wikileaks then passed much to mainstream news outlets (NYT, WashPost, Guardian etc) in time to blacken Hillary before the 2016 election.
______________________________________________

2. This is why I made the comment on Monday, on 2 March 2020, at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=20764#366092

"Trump could pardon Assange at any time.

A federal pardon in the United States is the action of the President of the United States that completely sets aside the punishment for a federal crime. [1]

A federal pardon can be issued prior to the start of a legal case or inquiry, prior to any indictments being issued, for unspecified offenses, and prior to or after a conviction for a federal crime. [2]

Federal pardons issued by the president apply only to federal law; they do not apply to civil, state, or local offenses. [3]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_pardons_in_the_United_States

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_pardons_in_the_United_States#Modern_process

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_pardons_in_the_United_States#Limitations

Posted by plantagenet"

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 19 September 2020 1:52:12 PM
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Dear Pete,

I don't get why Assange is still in a British jail
fighting extradition to the US.

It's not clear to me.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 19 September 2020 3:11:26 PM
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Hi Foxy,

Maybe because he could face the death penalty in the US for the offences that they claim he has committed.

Or, on the other hand, Trumpf could pardon him on the condition that he keeps his mouth shut about anything else Wikileaks has got on Trumpf. The scales of justice can be weighted ever so slightly ....

I'm sure that the British would never let him be extradited to the US until they got an assurance that the death penalty was off the table.

Of course, the offer of a pardon before Nov 3 might help to give them that assurance.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Saturday, 19 September 2020 3:20:04 PM
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The story in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

When you read down the page there is no concluding evidence Trump offered Assange pardon for dirt on the DNC. The Media has fed off each other and embellished the story.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/assange-offered-pardon-if-he-helped-resolve-speculation-about-russian-role-in-dnc-hack-court-told/ar-BB19bpYN
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 19 September 2020 4:11:09 PM
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with all Trumps tremendous achievements and egg splashed over the face of those suffering tds they have to keep inventing fantasy in hide their shameless lies. Day by day he shows how incompetent and corrupt his predecessors were/are. Hopefully four more years to drain the swamp although I think the democrats show he probably needs another 400 years.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 19 September 2020 4:18:53 PM
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Hi Runner,

Yes, 200,000 deaths is indeed a tremendous achievement. No other US president has achieved such distinction as to contribute to the unnecessary deaths of so many. 200,000 so far.

Only 46 days to go (our time). What larks can the Turd-Bucket-in-Chief come up with in that time ? Ban all voting after October 3 ? Send in armed thugs - 'patriots' - to drive intending voters home ? Smash up the odd voting machine ? Set fire to half of the polli9ng stations ? Enforce limited hours on voting, say 2 am until 5 am on Nov 3 ?

Yes, but he's YOUR Turd-Bucket :)

46 days :)

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Saturday, 19 September 2020 4:41:44 PM
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So Trump is now responsible now for the Covid-19 Deaths around the World. So what should he have done? close the borders to Chinese?

Including the European Union As of 18 September 2020, 185,533 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA and the UK: India 85,650, South America As of 10 September, 224,000 deaths, surpassing the United States with 195,000 COVID-19-related deaths etc.

How did this happen? It is all a beat up to make Trump responsible for the Deaths. Who do you blame for the European deaths, Indian deaths and South American deaths?
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 19 September 2020 5:02:25 PM
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Josephus,

200,000 deaths in the US (so far). Trumpf is President of the US, for now. The buck stops with the President. As it will be, after January, with Biden and Harris. We'll see3 if they manage much better, but I expect so.

Other countries ? Yes, you can place the blame for incompetence, on the whole, on the shoulders of their heads of government.

I'm sure you would agree wholeheartedly :)

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Saturday, 19 September 2020 5:11:42 PM
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Loudmouth 2, do you think that the behaviour of people might have something to do with it? or are the deaths in Victoria Daniel Andrews fault or Scott Morrisons fault? Be honest.

There is a threat to burn down the American High Court before the 2020 election. http://www.dailywire.com/news/media-figures-threaten-riots-if-gop-tries-to-fill-scotus-seat-burn-it-all-down?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand&fbclid=IwAR35w1Wz8X_N6cn6vgEi30ZEGKNrpY19DyQtQn5-tQgVeC43KdRBMKmGUqU
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 19 September 2020 5:34:16 PM
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yeah Joe remove the egg and hatred from your eyes and you might start to sound rational again. tds has certainly sent you into a spin. Not sure about your maths. Certainly Hilary counted the days only to to be robbed by Russia, sorry Ukraine, sorry the deplorables!
Posted by runner, Saturday, 19 September 2020 6:10:40 PM
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Hi Josephus,

Yes, as I wrote, " ..... you can place the blame for incompetence, on the whole, on the shoulders of their heads of government."

" .... on the whole ..."

One can't control the movements of every person. Idiots who break curfews and go off to gatherings and spread the virus, can contribute to hundreds of deaths. If I was Andrews, I would slap them with huge fines, equivalent to all of the costs, for all ensuing health expenses and every following death.

The 600-700 extra deaths in Victoria, partly because of the use of incompetent quarantining staff, etc. - not to mention the delay in lifting restrictions - have probably cost billions of dollars to Victoria, not to mention the grief and anguish. And yes, Andrews, or someone high up in the chain of command, should cop the responsibility for that decision to appoint such an incompetent company.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Saturday, 19 September 2020 6:30:07 PM
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surprising really how dumbed down tds has made you Joe. Your simple minded equation of the number of deaths caused by the China and helped by useless democrat mayors shows you have very little valid criticism of Trump, Quite an eye opener hearing your kindergarden logic. Usually that level of logic is reserved for Foxy. No mention of road deaths dropping over the last 3 years in US. Thanks Don. Oh sorry I am starting to use your childish logic and without tds.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 19 September 2020 7:27:07 PM
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Most people come to political life through a long and mostly arduous journey - local council or some local government high level job doing good work for the community - or something similar in the State or Federal bureaucracy, also doing good works coming to the notice of the individual's local electorate.
Mayor perhaps, or Shire Clerk or such, and then pursuing election as a State Rep or even Senator (they have Upper Houses in most State governments, as well as our Federal Government of course).

The reality is mostly it is a hard grind to get into politics at all, and then a continued hard grind to stay there, and to manage to do some good works before anyone can achieve a Cabinet position, let alone be elected as a Premier or Senate Leader, or Prime Minister.

But, every now and then a reputable and well-recognised individual active in local business or social, education or activist movement(s) may seek election directly to a State or Federal seat.
Not often, but say a Dr Kerryn Phelps AM or Ms Zali Steggall OAM MP.
Dr Phelps lasted one term - in Malcolm Turnbull's old seat.
Zali is still going in Tony Abbott's old seat.

Usually, or always, it takes a lot to get to be Premier or Prime Minister - with many accomplishments and few if any bloomers along the way.
(TBC)
Posted by Saltpetre, Saturday, 19 September 2020 11:14:24 PM
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Continued:

Now, step into America - where an individual of no civil movement background or history or accomplishment, but perhaps well known from the movies or TV or business circles (and possibly some notorious affiliations) may step into the Primaries to run for the Presidency.
Ronald Reagan comes to mind, but he of course was a gentleman, had been a union leader, had served his country in WWII, was the Republican Governor of California from 1967 to 1975, and became the 40th President of the U.S. from 1981 to 1989.
Many U.S. Presidents, if not all, had at least served in their State Legislature, as their State Governor, or even as a Representative in the Federal Congress or Senate.

Then, along comes Donald John Trump - business man of some note, TV show host, and with quite a checkered past in both business and private life - a Democrat until 1987, then flip-flopping between Democrat, Reform, Independent and Republican from 1987 to 2012 when finally settling as a Republican from 2012 - and then with astounding confidence puts himself forward in the 2016 Primaries for the Presidency of the United States - and wins election as the Republican Candidate, and then unbelievably wins the Presidency.

Did Donald J Trump put in the hard yards, did he to come to prominence through public office or civil activism? No.
Did he serve his country? No.
Is he highly educated? No.
From Wikipedia "He attended Fordham University for two years and received a bachelor's degree in economics from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania." And, " He became president of his father's real-estate business in 1971, renamed it The Trump Organization"

Wow! Such a big deal.
Any wonder he is the U.S. President he has become? A total shonk?
Posted by Saltpetre, Saturday, 19 September 2020 11:14:29 PM
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How about a Blacksmiths son being train driver becoming one of Australia's Great politicians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Chifley

Joseph Benedict Chifley was an Australian politician who served as the 16th Prime Minister of Australia, in office from 1945 to 1949. He was leader of the Labor Party from 1945 until his death. Chifley was born in Bathurst, New South Wales.
Joseph Benedict Chifley was born at 29 Havannah Street, Bathurst, New South Wales, on 22 September 1885. He was the first of three sons born to Mary Anne (née Corrigan) and Patrick Chifley II. His father – a blacksmith – was born in Bathurst to Irish immigrants from County Tipperary, …

He joined the state railways after leaving school, eventually qualifying as an engine driver. He was prominent in the trade union movement before entering politics, and was also a director of The National Advocate. After several previous unsuccessful candidacies, Chifley was elected to parliament in 1928. In 1931, he was appointed Minister for Defence in the government of James Scullin. He served in cabinet for less than a year before losing his seat at the 1931 election, which saw the government suffer a landslide defeat.

America needs to remove the career Politicians and put real people in charge.
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 20 September 2020 7:27:49 AM
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Josephus,

Loudmouth isn't really interested in logical argument over the issue of blame. He hates Trump (always has) and he wants to blame Trump for all the WuFlu deaths irrespective of the logic of that.

Let's look at Australia. We've had 844 deaths of which 90% occurred in Victoria. In the 'the buck stops here' world of LM, the ultimate blame lies with either Andrews or Morrison. Now if you want to blame Morrison then you have to explain why his leadership was so successful elsewhere but failed so utterly in Victoria. Or you could take the logical stance and say that Andrews screwed up bigtime. LM blames Andrews which makes sense.

Now we go to the exact same situation in the US. There we have places like NewYork an NewJersey that make up 25% of the deaths and have deaths/million at world breaking records, while we have states like Wyoming and Vermont with very low rates. If you want to blame Trump you need to explain why his policies failed NewYork but worked elsewhere. Or you could say that the NewYork leadership screwed up bigtime and rejected Trump's leadership for political purposes. That would be logical in that it would explain why the outcome was so disastrous there but not so elsewhere in the same way as blaming Andrews here explains the state differentials.

Or you could adopt the Loudmouth policy - I don't care about the facts or the logic or policy because OrangeManBad.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 20 September 2020 7:37:28 AM
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Jose' Australia's greatest ever politician, never to be PM was a real estate salesman, clue it wasn't L J Hooker. Australia's worst politician and thankfully never PM was who? Clue, it wasn't Ron Hodgeon who was found at the bottom of a cliff at the tender age of 60.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 20 September 2020 7:46:38 AM
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mhaze, like you Trump completely underscored the seriousness of the pandemic in the first instance, and continues to do so today. He made many unreal claims about the dieses and quack cures for it, even though he knew otherwise. Trump has been expose just recently as lying to the American people about this, an unforgiveable sin. He does all this for his own political benefit. I don't care if Trump gets returned or Biden wins, neither are the sort of political leaders I agree with. As far as I am concerned should America return Trump, then unfortunately they get what they deserve. Not good for the World, but we just have to live with it and hope for the best, but expect the worse.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 20 September 2020 8:11:13 AM
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Thanks MHaze for your coherent logic.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 20 September 2020 8:12:02 AM
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Hi Foxy

re ASSANGE

ASSANGE doesn't have the ABOVE THE LAW "because I'm GOD'S GIFT TO HUMANITY, WITH HEAD OF STATE status" that he and his followers entertain.

Put another way, unfortunately for ASSANGE the Great he is subject to Skipping Bail laws like all we non-Great plebs.

He skipped bail to the Ecuadorian Embassy, London, on 19 June 2012 until 11 April 2019, when he was arrested there.

So looking at Wikipedia it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange#Arrest_in_the_embassy indicates:

"On the afternoon of the day of his arrest, Assange was charged with breaching the Bail Act 1976 and was found guilty after a short hearing at Westminster Magistrates' Court...

Assange was remanded to HM Prison Belmarsh, and on 1 May 2019 he was sentenced at Southwark Crown Court to 50 weeks imprisonment" [FOR SKIPPING BAIL FOR ALL THOSE YEARS].
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 20 September 2020 12:08:35 PM
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Hi Pete,

I was under the impression that Assange had already
served the time for skipping bail in Britain.
Why is he still in jail?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 20 September 2020 1:20:37 PM
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Saltpetre,

While its clear that Trump had little experience in government prior to becoming president, its unclear that that is such a bad thing. People who gain political office without having any experience outside politics are a danger to themselves and the people they claim to represent.

Although Trump had no experience IN government he had more than enough experience OF government in his years as a developer. You should read the story of Trump and the New York Ice Rink to get an inkling of the type of things Trump had learnt during his decades in private enterprise about government and how it does and doesn't work.

Sun Tu said something along the lines that if you know both sides, you cannot lose. Something like that has happened in the past 4 years.

The problem with just having government people in government is that fresh ideas and fresh insights get crowded out.

A perfect example of that is if the Abraham Accords. The 'experts' who'd been in the State Dept etc for decades just KNEW that peace required a two state solution. When Trump (and Krushner) looked at the problem from a new angle they were ridiculed by those with all the experience. When he pulled of Obama's Iran deal, disaster was predicted. When he moved the embassy to Jerusalem, people like Kerry predicted that violence would erupt all over the M-E.
Instead, by coming at the problem from a new perspective and with fresh eyes, peace is breaking out in the M-E in ways that haven't been seen or anticipated for decades.

Trump is the great disruptor and that's one of the reasons he's been so successful and popular.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 20 September 2020 1:57:53 PM
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Foxy,

Assange is not in jail, he's on remand, awaiting the outcomes of the hearing in the British court whether or not to ship him off to the US.

I suppose, if the US can make a strong enough case that he put many lives in jeopardy, and if the US can undertake not to electrocute him, then they may decide to pack him off to the US, where Trumpf can pardon him for services rendered.

Just trying to help :)

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 20 September 2020 3:46:40 PM
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Hi Joe,

According to the web - Assange is incarcerated in:

HM Prison Belmarsh reportedly in ill health.
His extradition hearing began in the Old Bailey
on 7th September 2020.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 20 September 2020 3:56:30 PM
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Hi Foxy,

I stand corrected:

http://howardleague.org/prisons/belmarsh/

Belmarsh is a Category A prison, high-security. Remand centres are Category B prisons.

Sorry :(

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 20 September 2020 4:05:59 PM
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WIKILEAKs THREATENING TO EMBARRASS TRUMP UNLESS ASSANGE IS PARDONED

Interesting, in http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-19/assange-lawyer-claims-trump-offered-us-pardon/12680462, ASSANGE's lawyer, Jennifer Robinson, has decided to bring up a 2017 event NOW.

1. I would say the Wikileaks is NOW signalling Trump that it can again provide dirt on the Democrats. This time to help Trump's 2020 Campaign.

and

2. In return Wikileaks is asking Trump to pardon Assange while Trump has the power to do so AND while the extradition proceedings are still going on.

If Biden wins Biden may ask Wikileaks/Assange to reveal the whole story about Russia-Wikileaks-Trump Muckraking Against The Democrats. If so there is the risk some Trump men may stand trial and even Trump eventually.

More facts and issues about Assange's continuing UK gaol stay are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 20 September 2020 4:49:19 PM
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Hi Pete,

Good heavens ! Are you suggesting that Trumpf could put pressure on the British, perhaps through Barr, his A-G and loyal lapdog, to drop the charges against Assange [in return for Wikileak's discretion and warm cooperation ] ?

45 days to go [our time] ! He might have to hurry. In that time, he has to:

* bulldoze the appointment of a suitably reactionary lickspittle lawyer to the Supreme Court (and probably a woman, and Jewish at that); and also

* push through prohibitions on postal voting during Covid-19, like he's already done himself; and also somehow foul up the in-person voting process in Democratic-prone areas (fewer voting places, fewer voting-machines, fewer working voting-machines, 6-8-hour-waiting times on a Tuesday afternoon in early Winter); and

*. somehow destroy Fauci and Redfield, and force through the rules of

(1) 'no-testing, therefore no-super-spreaders', and

(2) 'other illness, not Covid, so not counted in total Trumpf deaths'.

and otherwise neuter the CDC.

200,000 Covid deaths thanks to Trumpf by the end of today. About 26,000 deaths each month, and not dropping.

45 days more ! God, how they drag !

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 20 September 2020 5:04:55 PM
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Hi Joe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange#Arrest_in_the_embassy indicates:

"Assange was remanded to HM Prison Belmarsh, and on 1 May 2019 he was sentenced at Southwark Crown Court to 50 weeks imprisonment.[19]

The judge said he would be released after serving HALF OF HIS SENTENCE subject to other proceedings and conditioned upon committing no further offences."

Trump could order the extradition to the US request be cancelled.

The way I read it extradition is the main proceeding that would keep Assange from being freed after "HALF OF HIS SENTENCE" ie. 1 May + 25 weeks.

That could mean if Trump drops the US extradition request (and there are no other other proceedings or further offences keeping Assange in goal) then Assange may be a free man by early October 2020.

But freeing Assange before 3 November may not be good for Trump's campaign - so freedom might be after 3 November.
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 20 September 2020 9:08:05 PM
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If an innocent man like Assange was before a show trial in Beijing instead of London the 'Usual Suspects' would be jumping up and down by now. American "justice" must be served, and who better to serve it than the sycophantic Poms. The other sycophant, Australia keeps mute while one of its citizen is being tried before a kangaroo court in England with the objective of the firing squad in America for an innocent man. ScumO' should be ashamed of himself for not speaking out about this travesty of justice.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 September 2020 5:55:23 AM
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No wonder LM is so all-in with Biden....they have the same reverence for the facts:

http://youtu.be/8XwgixmCU34

Biden: 200 million USians have died of WuFlu
LM: Sounds about right.

" Russia-Wikileaks-Trump Muckraking"

Not that the facts matter to you bozos but:
1.There's no evidence Russian hacked the DNC server.
2.Russia denies giving any emails to Wikileaks and Wikileaks says they got the hacked emails from people other than Russians. Ever heard of Seth Rich?
3. There's zero evidence that Trump had any knowledge or involvement in the leaks of the emails. None other than an email that was later debunked. Although the usual suspects fell for the false story in the same way they fall for all false stories.

Do you realise the leaked emails showed that Hillary lied to the American people and to the families of people who'd died because of her negligence? Does that matter?

"Thanks MHaze for your coherent logic."

Thanks Canem but as you can see these people aren't interested in coherent logic or any other sort of logic for that matter. Indeed I suspect LM had to duck off to dictionary.com to look up what 'logic' means.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 21 September 2020 8:00:57 AM
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mhaze, now you are posting a dubbed YouTube of Biden, nice try sunshine. BTW, how about an update on the Trumpster claims about Covid-19 you were making earlier in the year. Like the virus was only a mild flu, all be gone by Easter, diso will do the trick, herd amenity was at hand. In the US its a Democrat governed states problem, just look at the Republican states of Florida and Texas now, can you explain those two away as easily as you explained Trump's culpability in the whole bloody mess away so easily. Not only have you backed the wrong horse in Trump, you've backed a dead horse in Dangerous Doctor Donald, it wasn't breathing when you jumped on board.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 September 2020 9:26:59 AM
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Mhaze,

No, Trumpf is responsible - not for 200 million covid deaths in the US but - only 200,000 deaths of Americans. Sixty six 9/11s. And counting.

Four times as many American deaths as occurred during the entire Vietnam War. So far.

More than died in the first World War.

More than died in the Second world War. More than died in the Korean War.

If Trumpf had followed the lead of the Taiwanese president, he could have kept the numbers down below one thousand. But of course, he knew better. He knows better about all diseases than the long-term expert health professionals in the CDC, who he is undermining and, in due course, will dismiss.

Yep, he's a low-IQ bully and a braggart, he's always had his way since birth, a complete turd, but he's YOUR turd, and you're stuck with him. But only for another 44 days (our time).

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 21 September 2020 11:02:00 AM
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Paul,

Dubbed? Dubbed? The video is clipped from the Biden campaign broadcast. He said it. Its just one of his 10 or so daily gaffes. Its truly hilarious that you just don't want it to be true and therefore seek to deny your lying eyes.

I didn't say it was only a mild flu. I didn't say it'd all be gone by Easter, I didn't say that diso will do the trick. I didn't say herd amenity was at hand. Anything else you want to make up?

Now that Texas/Florida have somewhat higher rates, Paul now wants to talk about the states. Previously when I raised the issue, he'd suddenly decide he needed to be somewhere else. But higher rates in these states only confirms my point. That this was a states issue, not federal issue. Paul won't understand that and I've given up trying to explain it.

LM,

Yes I get that despite all logic and reason, you really really want to blame Trump. Of course abandoning all logic on this is a small step for you. So know you want Trump to turn the US into Taiwan - a small island with no states. Do you get that this confirms my point. It was a states issue and Taiwan avoided that.

Now you're saying that Biden was wrong?? Careful there...you'll be kicked out of the morons for sleepy joe society.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 21 September 2020 11:42:32 AM
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Mhaze,

As I understand it, Trumpf is head of state in one country, President Tsai Ing-wen is head of state in another. Clearly, she is more intelligent, compassionate, capable and caring than Trump - to him, everybody who dies is a loser.

That's interesting: does Trumnpf think he'll never die ? That would fit in with my suspicion that he has the mentality of an eight-year-old - perhaps a slightly retarded eight-year-old; a highly-indulged, slightly-retarded eight-year-old.

He does seem to have a morbid fear - and denial - of disease too: he seems only to wear a mask when he has to visit a hospital which, we know, would be full of sick people. More losers.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 21 September 2020 12:05:56 PM
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So LM,

Australia has 110 times more deaths per capita than Taiwan. So do you blame Morrison for that? He is after all, the national leader.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 21 September 2020 12:32:10 PM
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An when presented with the illogicality of his assertions, LM disappears. But he'll be back mouthing the same assertions in next to no time.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 8:44:40 AM
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Did anyone watch Q&A last night?

An interesting panel and a lively discussion on
the upcoming US presidential election. Trump
vs Biden.

The American mix on the panel made their feelings
clear as to who they thought would make a more stable
balanced leader. One interesting fact that was brought
up was the fact that smaller states had a bigger say
over the larger states because
of the antiquated Electoral College system.

If it wasn't for the current Electoral College system
Trump would never have been elected. The same applies
now - the system needs to go!

Time this was changed. The "crazies" live in the smaller
mid-western states - and they do not represent the
majority of Americans or the popular vote.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 10:30:12 AM
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cont'd ...

Correction: I refer to the smaller mid-western states
and by that I mean - smaller population size not area.
We should also include some Southern states in the mix.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 10:42:38 AM
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Mhaze,

Of course, dick-wits breaking curfews and 'clustering' are bound to kick up the death rate. I'm not sure that Morrison is responsible for the mishandling of quarantine hotels etc. in Melbourne, and clearly the odd outbreak is probably inevitable in every country - but I think Andrews has handled most of those sensibly, with strict lockdowns - which other dick-wits petulantly break, endangering whoever they come in contact with. There's no accounting for idiots.

I'm not suggesting that being president of the US would be easy, with its 50 states and four territories, etc. But he has the duty as overall head of state, to at least try to coordinate similar (no, not identical - similar) policy across states, to take the virus seriously, instead of declaring that it will all go away, just drink a bit of disinfectant or shine a light up your arse, or take hexydoxychlorofine - he did and he didn't get the virus so it must work ! - while Covid deaths continue unabated at about a thousand every day. Still, I suppose his golf game is improving.

I'm happy - like, it seems most Victorians - with both Andrews' and Morrison's response to this virus. I'm happy with Palaszczuk's and Marshall's responses. I'm happy with the idea of a prompt and hard lockdown - it could have been prompter, in order to suppress the virus to manageable levels.

In the US, of course they haven't got anywhere near that yet, and I do think that they will sooner or later have to face up to the necessity for a hard lockdown everywhere there. But paradoxically and very dangerously, people's patience has worn out before that has really been tried. So they're in for a long wait in the US.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 11:09:21 AM
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Loudmouth2, again you are misrepresenting the facts with this nonsense: "virus seriously, instead of declaring that it will all go away, just drink a bit of disinfectant or shine a light up your arse, or take hexydoxychlorofine -

* Trump closed the American border to Chinese as soo as he knew it was spreading.
* He never suggested drinking disinfectant, that was a Fake Media beat-up. If you are infected with a disease you need to be disinfected.
* He suggested taking Hydroxychloroquine with zinc, which has proved in recent studies to reduce the effects of covid-19. HE never suggested you take hexydoxychlorofine you are a Fake reporter. Read current trials.

http://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/hydroxychloroquine-drug-that-could-be-our-virus-saviour/news-story/a62ea1a7d9c5eed7
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 12:54:23 PM
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So to summarise LM, Trump is a complete disaster because he his country didn't do as well as Taiwan and Morrison, whose country did 110 times worse than Taiwan did a good job.
Oh and Andrews, whose state did almost 400 times worse than Taiwan, did a fine job.

And you think that all makes perfect sense?
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 1:04:35 PM
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Dear Joe,

mhaze is just stirring. I don't for one minute
think he really believes what he posts in Trump's
defence. It's not rational.

On Q&A last night John Ruddick the conservative
author and Trump supporter made the audience
gasp and laugh out loud in his defence of Trump's
handling of the coronavirus.

Embarrassing.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 1:10:38 PM
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To get rid of the Electoral College requires a change to the constitution. So they only need to get approval from:

2/3rd of the Federal House of Reps
2/3rd of the Federal Senate
4/5ths of the state's Governors and/or 4/5ths of the state's legislatures.

Ain't gunna happen. The left can whine all they like about what they see as unfair. But it ain't changing so they may as well get over it.

The whole 'popular' vote whinge is just to soothe their butt-hurt at losing in 2016. As I've explained before, it's invalid. Republicans like Trump and many candidates before him don't campaign in places like NewYork or California since they stand no chance of winning there and it'd be wasted effort and money.
But if winning depended on the popular vote then they would indeed campaign there and potentially pick up extra votes. Whatismore, many RNC supporters don't vote in those places since they know their vote will mean nothing. But again they would be enticed to vote if their vote might mean something.

Those two factors alone, change the whole popular vote meme. Change the rules and you change the outcome.


The left needs to just get over their tantrum. But alas...
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 1:19:33 PM
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Foxy,
Yes, I watched QandA, and I heard that claim about the Electoral College system. But I don't believe it.

AIUI the Electoral College system very strongly favours BIGGER states.
When Texas joined the USA, it was given the legal right to split into five states if and when it so chose. Splitting into five states would give them far more power in the senate. But the Electoral College system is a major factor in their current preference of remaining as a single state.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 3:04:23 PM
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The reasons for which the Founding Fathers created
the Electoral College are no longer relevant -
members of the Electoral College are now selected
by the political parties and they are expected to
vote along party lines.

The Electoral College gives too much power to
"swing states" and allows the presidential election
to be decided by a handful of states.

And most importantly the Electoral College ignores the
will of the people.

After all it is supposed to be

We the People of the United States

NOT

We the States ...
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 3:10:48 PM
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'The left needs to just get over their tantrum. But alas...'

little chance Mhaze. Remember Brexit - it could never happen, Remember the illegal boats - impossible to stop, remember 2016 - tantrum throwing pussy heads (obviously blind to Biden's fingers) remember Kavanagh - lying feminist

Imagine the tantrum if Trump wins again. Oh that's right they already have their court challenge ready. You have to give it to the left. They are first class when it comes to tantrums.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 3:18:23 PM
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mhaze,

Yes indeed - you are spot on!

Change the rules and you change the outcome.

And that is precisely what Americans need to do
and what's being discussed by so many there.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 4:00:28 PM
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But it may not change the outcome the way you expect or hope.

Still it all fantasy-land stuff anyway.As I outlined above, the procedures and consensus required to achieve the change is formidable and won't happen.

It s really just some people playing electoral make-believe.

Meanwhile, in the real world....
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 6:08:41 PM
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mhaze,

Sometimes fantasies and dreams do come true.

I'm ever hopeful.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 6:14:58 PM
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