Joe, i don't like Trump either, but I do believe there are real and justified reasons why he was elected.

When he was elected, i welcomed his approach to the CCP because someone had to escalate the issue.

Until Trump, we had a lot of talk and not much action.

But, i think the West will now do better when he is gone, assuming the talkers remain in the backround rambling on.

Dear runner,

Apparently you don't like facts.

Hi Foxy,

I wonder if there's not something else, a suspicion that people with a differing point of view are quite consciously lying just a little bit, they know that their arguments are a bit weak, so they add/subtract bits to strengthen their argument - and when this doesn't work, even in their own mind, they get all hurt and/or angry and condemn the other viewpoint out-of-hand.

I suspect that 'cancel culture' is in this paddock. It's not that different from the intolerant attitudes of fifty and sixty years ago. But surely, if someone's own argument is strong and valid, it will stand up to argument ? So any contrary viewpoint may actually help to provoke deeper thought about what one may have taken for granted, and eventually help to strengthen one's own argument.

I always go back to Edison's take on finding a suitable material for a filament for an electric light bulb - that his first two thousand tries didn't work, but at least he knew not to try them again. And eventually, he found something, What, I don't know. Tungsten, I think.

But that's how knowledge progresses. It doesn't progress by shutting down, shunning, burning at the stake, non-personing, someone. That way lies reaction, backwardness, closing-off, the death of knowledge. We could call it 'the Soviet way'.

With your Baltic-versus-Soviet background, you understand. I wish we all could learn from that.

Oops, have to put the tea on.

Joe

Joe,

Not all things will stand up to argument as you know
especially on this forum which is awash with ...
Well you know - as stated earlier there are people
who just don't like facts, don't respect the views of
females (we should be home bare-foot and pregnant),
and if your views disagree with theirs - you're a
socialist, Marxist, Maggot, or a petulant prostitute,
or worse, et cetera. As the saying goes
in some cases it's better not to argue with an ... (fill in
the dots) -
they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with
experience. Best to avoid, walk away, and try to ignore.
You get the picture

Joe,

You might enjoy this:

"Sell a man a fish,
He eats for a day,
Teach a man to fish,
You ruin a wonderful business opportunity".
(Karl Marx)

Just to spice things up a bit. (smile).

Then there is another view that tells it like it is but is not accepted because of the very attitudes mentioned.
Facts are merely a collection of specific bits of information and do not tell the true story or the TRUTH, unless they are put in the correct order.
This IS an old FACT, if one likes facts alone.
Some people are just plain stubborn and too proud for their own good, to even listen to other views or suggestions, for fear it will force them to question and therefore bring in to doubt their long held views.
It is a twisted view that suggests that bringing someone into line by accepting the truth, will somehow bring them down, when they very well know, or at least suspect, they ARE already at the bottom, and those they resist and reject are in fact trying to bring them up to a level higher than before.
Any raising of knowledge or level of knowledge is better than where they have been for so long.
I am pleased though, because sometimes I see that even though they seem to reject or deride you, and even say they will avoid you or walk away or ignore you, and if on a forum, will skip over your postings as well, but decide against.
Yet, their curiosity and deep seated desire to engage in some way with this person, who has gotten their attention and taken their innocence, keep them from wanting to disengage completely, thereby exposing their willingness to consider another view.