Cronulla bashing. Attacker of lifeguard given 'supsended sentence, a lecture and 300 hours 'community' service.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/cronulla-fighter-betrayed-our-safe-haven/2006/09/29/1159337342874.html

Some Facts:

1/ Magistrate Jacqueline Trad who heard the case is of Lebanese decent.
2/ The suspect is Lebanese Muslim "Ali OSman".
3/ Trad was appointed as a Federal Magistrate after TWO MONTHS of qualifying as a solicitor. http://www.findlaw.com.au/article/15134.htm

4/ An Anglo Australian during the Cronulla period, in fear for his life, (due to widespread random attacks by Lebanese Muslim gangs on people of Anglo racial background) was arrested for carrying 'a branch'. He was 'charged, convicted and jailed' on the same day.

5/ Numerous media reports of "Groups of Middle eastern males carrying baseball bats were "spoken to then allowed to go" by Police.

Is anyone seeing what I am seeing ?

I've said many times "All peace is the result of a war, and every peace contains the seeds of the NEXT war"

A little voice inside tells me, 'summer is coming'.

What message has this 'lecture' (*ouch*..that really hurt) sent to the Lebanese Muslim community ?

Would it be something like "Don't worry about those stupid Affray and Riot laws... our people are the judges, they will just slap your hand. Next summer, come on down to Cronulla, and smash a few heads, it wont matter."

To the Anglo community ?

"There is no justice in the legal system, it is rife with discrimination and bias and corruption.... look after your own, don't rely on the police or the (in)Justice system" ?

Would it suprise any outside observer if Anglo communities were found to be:

Trained
Organized
Equipped

for lawful self defense next summer ?

Perhaps the next time we 'speak' it will be TEN thousand rather than five.

I don't understand your point BD. Are you saying Anglo organisation of lynch mobs is justified if the law is biased? That the moral majority is always right and the law is wrong? Please explain padre?

Lynch mobs?
The only group carrying weapons as such were the Lebanese rainer.
As for the misnomer of race riot... it was a protest with thousands of Australians from various ethicities protesting about a single group of people who had finally caused them to say enough is enough.
After 10 yerars of bad behaviour and intimidation Australians took a stand against the Lebanese louts.
Some people there got drunk and behaved badly, but it was a minority of less than 1%.
Where as the armed Lebanese rampage that followed had 100% involved.
Apologists and deniers need not reply...

Does anyone know, whether of Australian or otherwise background, that Australia has five traditionally bad cities? They are of course 1. Sydney; 2; Darwin; 3, (to a greatly lesser extent now) Kalgoorlie; 4, Mt Isa.

How about that hey.

So that would make these bad places an extreme minority in the traditional Aussie sense. Beleive it or not. The great tribulation being showered upon Sydney, however is not one any of us would like to see. But the engines of hate are there. And so is class-warfare, for what its worth.

If the moronic city dwellers got off their collective asses and went out and had a look at what Australia actually is, there might be a great reduction in the strain exhibited in these hyperbolic centeres. But for some reason, the magnetism of dynamic social tension is just too much to resist for some (read most).

May god bless the actual innocents of Sydney.

I don't mind.It just puts another nail in the coffin of the Iemma Govt.This is just par for the course for our judiciary.The NSW Govt doesn't want too many in goal since it is just too expensive.

It is better that we pay higher insurance premiums for crime,then the Govt gets an extra 10% stamp duty and 10% GST.You see crime does pay.

BOAZ,

If you’re looking for someone to point the finger at for various social ills then magistrates and their sentencing decisions make pretty easy targets, as politicians, talkback hosts and other rabble rousers know only too well. Magistrates have to make their decisions based on the law and the evidence set before them, while their critics are not so hamstrung.

Popular sentiment holds that crime is best tackled by ever more draconian penalties, while criminologists hold that to really increase the deterrent value of the law you need to increase the chances of getting caught, not the penalties which follow. The problem in this case wasn’t the severity of the sentence, but the fact that only one kid faced court over the assault and affray, and it seems he was a relatively minor player in the whole nasty business.

I can’t judge if there was an error in his sentencing without knowing exactly what evidence was before the court. Neither can you. The best person to make that call would be the prosecutor, who has the option of appealing if they felt the sentence was inadequate for the young man’s crime. To my knowledge they’re not appealing. For you to then say that the magistrate was soft and biased, and that this was because of her shared ethnicity with the defendant is drawing a long and very unhelpful bow, given the existing tensions.

Could you elaborate on the Anglo who was arrested, tried, convicted and jailed merely for carrying a branch all on the one day? Either NSW has an extraordinarily efficient (and draconian) legal system, or I suspect you might be stretching the truth a bit here.

Snout has be the master of overstatements."Draconian Penalities?"You've got to be kidding.If our mealy mouthed whimpish judges actually did their jobs,Sydney would not be experiencing the rising levels of violence and crime that is occurring now.

The major problem is that the most of the judges have been oppointed over the last ten years by a left leaning Govt and it's bureauracy.We need an American system whereby judges can be elected by the public,and not a bunch of do gooding academics.

Arjay,

I used “draconian” in a comparative rather than absolute sense (that’s what “more” means). However, hypothetically speaking, I’d consider jailing a man who was innocently walking down the street with a branch in his hand draconian in an absolute sense. However, if police chose to lock up someone in the cells for a few hours who was drunk, out of control, armed and hell bent on mayhem I’d consider this good policing. Depends on your point of view, I guess.

I think you’ve been listening to too much shock jock radio if you think judges are wimpy or mealy mouthed in their sentencing. Interesting study in the Age today. A Melbourne University study of 475 people in Melbourne and regional Victoria found that on average they would pass significantly lower sentences for a variety of actual crimes than the judges did, once the study participants were fully aware of the circumstances of the crime and the offender. I can’t find a link to this yet, but I’ll post one when I can. I’m sure Alan Jones, Derryn Hinch and others of their tabloid ilk would foam at the mouth at this, but I’ll let you into a little secret: they’re not paid to be balanced: they’re paid to get ratings, and getting people hot under the collar is a good way of achieving this.

Over the past few years I’ve assessed about a thousand or so freshly sentenced young men coming into custody. I don't think I'm a bleeding heart. Occasionally I’ve thought “what the..?” but generally on knowing the circumstances of the crime and the offender I reckon judges and magistrates get it pretty right most of the time.

You are out of touch with the real world Snout.We lost the discipline in our schools in the late 70's.The nanny state removed the responsibility from todays parents to do what their grandparents considered basic and essential behaviour.Now we have the selfish,egocentric generation who know more about their rights than responsibilities,thanks to our decadent legal system.

Our society lacks discipline,and the judiciary are the harbinger for our demise.

Dear Snout and Ranier

My only point is 'consistency'.

I'm drawing a contrast between the extreme heavy handedness meted out to a bloke with a branch, (Arrested, convicted, Jailed on the same day) with 'community service' after a CONVICTION for a far worse offense.

That is a key point. "Worse"..... but lesser punishment.

Now.. given that the evidence against Osman was perhaps not as compelling as one would like, (i.e. the veracity of the identification) if there was doubt there should have been an acquittal.
But there was not. He was actually convicted, so the evidence must have been sufficient.

Given that "bloke with branch"= 4 months jail
and
"bloke guilty of assault in company"= lecture and community service.

Should raise questions in all our minds. The branch bloke had not hit,struck or in any way endangered a single person. Yet he was jailed.
Others, Leb Muslims carrying Baseball bats.. same offense, different (but more effective) weapon get 'spoken to by police and let go'
Doesnt that raise questions to you ? It sure does to me.

Ranier.. my point about the law is that it SHOULD be implemented.
FYI the issue in Queensland with that Policeman who beat up the Aborigine on Palm Island..looks like a cover up/favoritism to me, I say throw the book at his white ass.

BOAZ,

I regularly hear complaints of unfair and heavy handed treatment by the police and the courts. While there’s sometimes an element of truth to complaints of excessive force used by police (and the Palm Island case seems like an extreme example of this, going on the coroner’s findings) I’ve learned that such complaints can sometimes be slanted, or tell only part of the story.

I don’t know the full story about the guy jailed for four months the day he was picked up, but my guess is it sounds like he was breached for violating his parole. In other words he was already sentenced for another offence. That’s the only way I could understand him being jailed again so quickly. Parole is part of your sentence, and if you offend during it, my experience is that parole boards tend to come down very heavily on you. No doubt young Osman is going to have to watch himself over the next few months as well, because I’m sure corrections will be keeping a very close eye on him, too.

I’m certainly not defending the behavior of the Lebbo thugs any more than that of the Anglo thugs. I reckon you could say that both sides were young and stupid and intoxicated with tribal self righteousness (or just plain intoxicated). My concern is with the older men (and it’s mostly men) standing at the sidelines razzing up the kids. Hopefully the police will have done a bit of strategic planning since last year to try to avoid a repeat of the violence. But we don’t make their job any easier by fuelling the fire.

I reckon all the imams, including Imam Jones and his mates, need to take a good hard look at the messages they’re preaching, and what the effects are of their brand of sanctimonious tribalism. A good start would be not undermining the work of the police and the courts by spurious claims of systemic partisanship, fed by half truths.

Here's that link I mentioned a few posts back.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/public-softer-on-crime-than-judges-study-finds/2006/09/29/1159337341315.html

Good old Imam Jones :) yes.. I guess in his case there was always the commercial aspect in the back of his mind during Cronulla.

I hope you noted the point about 'Appointed Magistrate after 2 months of qualifying as a solicitor' for Ms Trad.

I don't know about that young fella in Penrith and parole.. do you have a link or source to that effect ?

Anyway... thanx for the interaction. I know that raising hairy points/issues will usually motivate some kind soul to add information which balances out the picture.

But as for Osman and his community service ? I don't hold up high hopes for Corrections to have a microscope on him. If they do, all well and good.
cheers

No, I don't have a link supporting my assumptions about the guy you mentioned. I'm basing my guess on the information that he was sent to jail for four months the day he was picked up. I don't know of any court in Australia that can provide such prompt and efficient service except for parole boards. Generally you wait weeks or months for the magistrate's court and longer for higher courts. I could be wrong, but the speed with which he was dealt with strongly suggests a pre existing sentence: I can only go on what you've told us. Where did your info come from? It doesn't ring true to me as the whole story.

Dear Snout
they said it was a special provision under some section or other.
Can't recall the term they used, but it wasn't parole violation, the context was clear about that.

cheers.

see u in the 'Women on front line nooooo' thread ? :)

As a British subject moving to Australia in the early 1980's I encountered the Aussie redneck's from my first week in the country (not another bloody foreigner mate !) ... right through to my last week as a long standing Australian citizen 18 years later.

Yes, the NESIBs are easy to have a go at, yes, they even stick together, mutual support, interests and friendship almost guarantee it ... but these things make good friends regardless of travelling or living in a community. Then there are the white wogs (to coin an Australian & new Australian phrase) such as myself, recommended to undertake elocution lessons from a white redneck Australian female with no idea (read, not enough intelligence - or a fraction of my vocabulary) to understand the blatant insult, even when I commented that I had a perfect Scottish accent, so why should I try to improve on perfection ... no, she did not see the humour!

The final slap came from the Aussie male (who looked Italian) with the attractive Asian lady in his car on a northern suburb (Sydney) beach who yelled at me to return to my own ("£$"$%"£^&^%&*^) country as he pushed in while parking his car ... his friend was fortunately enough, as appalled by his behaviour as I was.

I have been back in the UK for just over six years now and while my daughter (mixed hispanic/british descent) had an derogatory comment from a three year old with dubious parentage ... we have been fortunate not to have encountered the same expriences in the Scottish Borders; while I realise that both the new (immigrants) and old British (generally WASPs or Irish catholic) subjects also share the Australia redneck outlook ... I live in hope that they will eventually remove their heads from their rectums to get on with the more important things in life ... such as enjoying it and taking the moments for their future reflections ... yes, life is too short.

I dont want to stick my nose in here with my opinion but I will anyway. I have said for a long time that we have some quite influential people in quite important jobs making decisions on a lot of things and you know what they are of Middle Eastern Background. Now before you go and attack me I am not being racist it is purely an observation I have been on to for a while -- ok paranoid maybe but have a look at it.