Well, that’s what SkyNews’ Rita Panahi reckons. She also thinks that the apologists for China who brand as ‘racists’ anyone who mentions the source of the China virus are “certifiable morons”. Good stuff.

China’s culpability and conduct must be dealt with. The virus originated in the Chinese wet markets; the same places that produced SARS and bird flu. The CCP lied and destroyed evidence, and arrested doctors and whistle blowers, who have since vanished. 95% of the virus cases could have been prevented if the Chinese regime had acted 3 weeks earlier.

The World Health Organisation should also be slated. They actually praised the regime’s response, ignoring its dishonesty and recklessness. It has been suggested elsewhere that the fact that most of WHO’s funding comes from China might have something to do with their parroting of the CCP’s propaganda.

On January 14th a WHO press release stated that “Preliminary investigation has found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”. It also mimicked China’s criticism of travel restrictions.

The media, particularly the US Left media, is regurgitating the Chinese Communist Party’s lies free of charge. But we must not allow the totalitarian regime to “rewrite history”. Nor should we be harping against our own people’s efforts to solve a problem quite clearly inflicted on us by China.

Rita is normally right. And we are told to believe all women. Unless of course its an uncle tom conservative (really one outside marxist groupthink).

ttbh: You say, "95% of the virus cases could have been prevented if the Chinese regime had acted 3 weeks earlier."

This is absolute rubbish!!

It wouldn't have made any difference to the current tragic state of affairs if China acted earlier because, our government wouldn't have acted any earlier!!

Western governments handling of this has been a total fiasco. They've had *MONTHS* to get their bundle together and yet did hardly anything till it was way too late.

This is especially so in Australia since we are an inland it would have been trivial to close our borders months ago. Even though people were public asking them to drastically tighten border control and implement mandatory quarantine they choose to "protect the economy" over the population. We didn't tighten to borders because of the supposed impact it would have had on tourism/international students/migration numbers. Yet anybody with half a brain could foresee the potential catastrophic economic impact that we are now dealing with (eg: the closing of businesses and laying off of workers) would outweigh any impact on tourism.

Indeed, we could have perhaps even created a new income stream out of this global crisis. Because if we kept our country virus free then we could sell sanctuary, at a very great price, to rich people who want some where safe to live.

"China’s Feet Must Be Held To The Fire"

Not only MUST but WILL. They will be held to account.

Any way you cut this, the current crisis is occurring because of the ChiCom's utter contempt for the lives of their own people let alone the lives of foreigners. The first and last concern of the Chinese leadership was to protect itself by first denying the problem and then seeking to spread and transfer the blame.

To be sure, others were also somewhat complicit, not least of which is the W.H.O. which spent way to much time and effort covering for the Chinese leadership and way to little time showing required scepticism about the outright lies they were being told and then disseminating.

Additionally many governments have not exactly covered themselves in glory. Italy, on the brink of a catastrophe, sought to display its anti-racism by promoting "Hug a Chinese" idiocy.

The media as well should be examined. From opposing the early attempts to institute travel bans to supporting Chinese attempts to pass the blame.

But despite all that, by far the greater part of the blame goes home to Xi and his henchmen. There will be a reckoning.

First, the world will never again accept at face value the lies coming from Peking. Travel bans will eventually be lifted but the free flow of people into and out of these disease-incubator nations will cease. Want to visit China? OK, but be prepared to be thoroughly vetted on your return. Want to visit from China. Again OK, but again, you won't be just strolling through customs like before.

/cont

/cont

Yep, there'll be the usual dills crying racism as a Yank gets to come in without vetting while a Chinese visitor is put through a thorough grilling. But they'll just have to get used to the new world.

But the real hit for China will be economic. Already there are legislative moves in the US to pull back ALL medical production from China to the US or allied nations. No more being reliant on the ChiComs for masks or medications.

Western companies, already nervous about being in China in the face of Trump's trade-war, and also eyeing possibilities elsewhere, are now starting to realise that the advantages of using cheap or even slave labour in China and avoiding environmental regulations, comes with a cost. And that cost is devastating. The trickle of companies leaving China, which became a river under Trump, will become a flood.

The CCP made a pact with its people 30 years ago, for them to surrender freedom in exchange for wealth. What happens when they can provide neither?

For Australia, things could hardly be worse. China will be held to account, but those reliant on China will suffer also. And there is none more reliant than us. Ever since the early 1990s we've bet the house on China. We've rode the Chinese wave and pretended it'd never end. We've pissed off other potential partners like Taiwan and India so that we could remain on the good side of the CCP. But now the faecal matter is about to hit the cooling device and we are standing right in front of it.

And what are we doing about it. Closing down the economy AND totally stripping bare the money tree out the back of parliament house.

Things are going to be bad for the Chinese. But not much better for us.

Great idea ttbn, but just who is going to hold China's feet anywhere.

We have given control of our health care equipment & medications to China, by transferring our manufacturing of both to there.

We have transferred control of our electronics industry there, both by manufacture of the hardware but also of the mining & production of the metals required for much of modern electronic components & equipment.

If push comes to shove, China can close off the supply of vital materials & componentry needed for our, read US, defense equipment & smart munitions, & simply absorb punishment until we are reduced to chucking rocks & sticks at them.

Trump is proven right in his efforts to return American industry & technology to the US, but it is going to take years or decades to get self sufficiency back in the US. At least they have an oil industry, & haven't sent it off shore as we stupidly have, & that US master stroke is down to you know who.

No thinkabit, I did not say that; I reported it, and the person whom I reported DID NOT say 95% of cases in Australia. So, it’s you talking rubbish because you think only a bit - on your own admission.

You charge on, lambasting all ‘Western governments’ as though China had no part to play in spreading the China virus. You are another self-hater who would be welcome in China to do a Lord Haw Haw piece against your own country, which you describe as an “inland”.

Hasbeen,

As I’ve said elsewhere, we need to take a bit of short term pain to take all of those things back from China and resume making them here.

In the meantime, I have just heard a 95 year old woman who lived through the blitz in London during WW2 say that there is more panic here than there was in London when bombs were raining down.

Geoffrey Luck presents some interesting information about Italy’s disease and death figures. The north of the country, which has a high population density, is the worst hit. It is also the centre of manufacturing and has a large Chinese workforce, employed in the factories which China bought out. Workers returning from China after the New Year celebrations spread the virus.

Let’s see the ‘don’t blame China’ brigade turn that one around.

Holding China's feet to the fire is really bit of a joke. Really it is everyone who knew what a wicked cruel regime communism/socialism is but then sold out to them anyway. Pollies from all sides of the equation are guilty with obviously some pocketing much more than others. Our university sector has lowered standards and refused to fail students simply for the dollar. They have trashed, denied and rewritten history about everything that made this one of the worlds greatest nations. We are reaping the fruit of their dishonesty, lies and cowardice. Many of the West hating professors who have made very good money by sucking up to the communist escape any sort of scruntity. In fact the more they hate the West the more likely they are to get a run on Pails/Steelies abc with revised history and British hating. Congratulations guys. I trust you all have whopping super accounts of the virus does not get you first.

runner,

Our slavering to and reliance on a Communist controlled totalitarian country is a matter of eternal shame for decent Australians and the decent people of all democracies who have sold out to China.

What the dupes in the West don't seem to realise is that China's Zhongnanhai-devised artificial economy is decidedly dependent on the rest of the world and, consequently, something of a house of cards. It is an artificial economy because it is controlled by the government, and we might be rid of it sooner than later.

Cui Bono
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono

http://youtu.be/BJGWC_GVxY0

Its an absurdity to carry-on a blame game featuring a "who done it".

China was not asked to become a centre of manufacturing for the West. It was pretty much thrust onto it, by profit seeking Capitalists. The same Capitalists who willingly dumped the West into a basket case of service industries.

If, if China could be criticised in any concrete way for the spread of the corona virus, it could only be on the grounds that there was a deliberate intent behind it.
There is more speculation around that it was actually a US plot, and they actually planted the virus in China.

The answer to who done it, is pretty much neutralised by the balance of rumour. Depending on which fantasy you choose.

China has suffered as much from the fall out of the corona pandemic as has the West.

It may now join the conga line in a global recession.

Dan

Armchair Critic.

That's a very short post for yourself. One wonders.

I feel at this stage some sensible debate is needed. Having checked out your video link, I don't think that conspiracy imagining fits the bill.

Dan

Dan,

You say, "Its an absurdity to carry-on a blame game featuring a "who done it".". If you mean it won't do any good or make any difference, you are right. But, the point being made here is that certain people think the Chinese shouldn't be blamed because they are not white people; and that is what is really absurd. I'm talking about the white crackpots who think criticising a non-white person about anything is racist.

I don't think that our manufacturing was "thrust onto" China. The CCP are not that silly. They wanted to compete and to grow their economy, and they offered to do it a lot cheaper than the West could, with low wages and bloody awful conditions for their workers.

I agree that it should never have happened; but given that we have among the highest minimum wages in the world, and powerful and corrupt unions, the de-industrialisation of Australia was inevitable. It's hard to take back what workers have been used to receiving, but that's what is going to have to happen if we are ever to be self-reliant and independent again. And it's better than have nearly three quarters of a million people unemployed.

The 'speculation' about a US plot is just that. Lying, cheating and stealing is second nature to the Chinese Communist Party. And there is no "rumour" about Chinese complicity in the causing and spreading of the virus. They did it, alright.

Ttbn

You cover three basic points.

1. Accusations of racism towards critics of China.

That one is a tangled web.
If our politicians actively implemented policies which favoured Chinese immigration which proves detrimental to Australians by dispossessing them as a result, then it's the fault of the politician.
Observing the ramifications of those policies too often results in racism against Chinese by those dispossessed Australians.

That situation is not the fault of Chinese I have concluded.

I have a personal choice here. In what direction do I direct my resentment at the dispossession? I prefer to resent politicians, and to remove my faith in a political system which I perceive is aligned against me. Then I look for the reasons politicians did that to me, and respond accordingly.
Attacking the Chinese is not intelligent.

2. The migration of our industrial base to Asia ( China etc),

You contradict youself here. On one hand you blame the unions for pushing for higher wages. On the other, you do not complain at the same volume that that migrating industry was happy to exploit sub standard wages and conditions.

At the time this occurred, inflation was running high with interest rates running accordingly.
It's the old " which is coming first, the horse or the cart?".

Unions were justified in fighting for wages which matched these paradigms. You lack understanding on the issue.

To prove my point, this was the time also of runaway housing prices. Interestingly those prices ceased to stop escalating at the same time the overpaid workers (as you put it), lost their jobs by the bucketload and took unemployment and scummy part time jobs as the alternative.
It was a beginning time of the great Australian divide between the rich and the poor.

3. Chinese Commuists have the monopoly on lying and cheating.
What...and our politicians are pure as the driven snow by comparison?
That's delusional stuff mate.

Dan

Ttbn.

There are actually four main points on closer study of your text.

But first a correction on escalating house prices at the time of job losses.

I stated incorrectly that house prices ceased to escalate at that time.
That should read " prices failed to stop escalating when wages dropped and workers were faced with job losses and insecure employment and part time work as the norm".

4. You mention with apparent certainty, in your text, that Chinese were deliberate in releasing the corona virus.

That one we should discuss. Where is the evidence for that conclusion?

Dan

Dan,

When I said "They did it alright", I did not mean deliberately, because I don't have the knowledge to say that. However, I would not be surprised if it transpired that it was deliberate. Anything is possible with Communist totalitarianism.

'China’s Feet Must Be Held To The Fire'
So should those of Australians & the complicit politicians who became wealthy from ruining jobs here by taking their manufacturing to China.

Do you really think China gives a stuff about Australia? What has Australia, and for that matter the rest of the World, ever done for the Chinese. They see Australia as a dirt bag of a place only good for digging up the minerals, or growing the food etc, they can make use of.

Back in the day, when news would come that a million Chinese had died in a flood or famine, the reaction from many in the West, including Australians, was; "Oh! well, that's God's way of controlling their numbers, to bad." Now they might be saying the same about us.

'Do you really think China gives a stuff about Australia? What has Australia, and for that matter the rest of the World, ever done for the Chinese. They see Australia as a dirt bag of a place only good for digging up the minerals, or growing the food etc, they can make use of. '

well Paul you are largely right on that one I think. They plainly see that since we become more like them we murder hundreds of thousand of unborn and make pathetic excuses for it. Thank God He is sovereign over all nations with even the murderous dictators. Like every other empire (except Israel) they will also only reign until God says enough.

Now is as good a time as any to sit back & re-think all previous tactics. A totally new approach is the only way out of this & forward. Greed is no longer good ! After all, it is mainly due to greed that this situation eventuated. Politics, economics, Education etc. need a totally different angle of mentality. Nr 1 priority is to reintroduce common sense & the only way to achieve that is by by-passing all the academic "experts" who are the single most responsible for the course the World has taken, aided by Religion power mongers !

"The answer to who done it, is pretty much neutralised by the balance of rumour. Depending on which fantasy you choose."

On the surface yes.

We don't know if the Chinese stole / acquired the virus via US biolabs and that the Chinese had an accident in Wuhan which they tried to manage, play down and cover up in the beginning, but couldn't;
Or if the accident originally occurred in the US re 'vaping illness' and 'biolabs being relocated' and they acted to make the situation look like a Chinese accident instead of a US one.

Alternatively there is some data to suggest that US might've been deliberately culpable in some sort of nefarious plot.
- While 'on the surface' this does sound unreasonable if you look deeper there are reasons and data to suggest that this may indeed be the case.

- Right now, I don't think any of us know for sure;
And it's a distraction, because we need to now focus on the challenges of the weeks and months ahead.

18,900 dead and counting.
We're less than a few days away from those who lost their jobs and have no money start considering robbing and stealing from others to eat.
And we're 2 weeks away from our hospitals becoming overwhelmed.
I also hear the Chinese have been buying handguns and ammo.
(They know what's coming)

There's a fairly good chance that ALL HELL IS GOING TO BREAK LOOSE

Two things could happen because of the China virus:

People might start trusting the 'experts’ again; or they might lose trust in public institutions and the authority of government altogether.

Either way, it's hard to see how our highly regulated, highly indebted, high cost and low productivity economy will withstand the China virus. And, there will be no room for twaddle on climate change. There probably won't be any spare money to throw at such irrelevant nonsense. A recession is pretty much inevitable.

China's poor controls on human animal contact, its initial failure to deal with the disease and lies need to be acknowledged publicised and China must be made to take action to stop it happening again.

Hey ttbn,
"And, there will be no room for twaddle on climate change."

I watched a recent video from James Corbett that outlines what we can expect here:

Coronavirus and Climate Change
http://youtu.be/UaDiZjOKeTg

Hey Shadow Minister,
"China's poor controls on human animal contact"

You can argue on a basis of merit that they have poor standards.
But I'm not sure you can argue on a basis of merit that the virus originated in the market.
That's a narrative which is not consistent with the facts.
If you go back to the WHO's first response to Coronavirus in which 29 people were affected, 13 of those people could not be traced back to the market.
While many of the 29 did trace back to the market, not all of them did.
It's a media narrative to imply it came from the market, just as the corporate media always supports US wars and geopolitical interests.

Just out of curiosity, have any of you seen the Jimmy Dore Show, and what do you think of it?
He feels like someone from the left but his content seems more aligned with the right.

Twitter Announces New CENSORSHIP For Coronavirus Tweets
http://youtu.be/PV5LFFb-t5Q

18,900 dead and counting. (5hrs ago)
19,784 now.
http://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

20,499 deaths now, that's 1600 reported deaths in the last 8hrs.
That's 8% of ALL reported deaths from COVID-19 in the last 8hrs.

Australia is 18th for number of infected with 2364 infected and 8 deaths.

Total global infected has jumped by about 75,000 or 20% in last 24hrs.
Total confirmed infected as of 26 March 2020, 4:19:33 AM is 454,398

There are three possible sources for the virus:

1. It started organically in the wet market due to China's 19th century practices;
2. It started in the Wuhan diseases research lab and just escaped due to slack security;
3. We know of other cases of workers at these labs selling experimental animals for food instead of killing and incinerating them. There's a chance that happened here as well.

What is not unclear is that China knew by mid-December (and likely early December) that there was human-to-human transmission but kept that secret until mid-January. WHO helped in that endeavour.
In that time over 5 million people left Wuhan, each one a potential viral bomb.

The Chinese Communist Party put its 'face' ahead of all other considerations and is now trying to hide that, helped by the usual useful idiots and the standard media.

China will pay dearly for this 'error'. They won't learn from it but they will pay.

See also 'Infectious diseases are another unrecognised cost of high population' by Eric Claus on the main forum. Australia must stop mass immigration of unwanted and inappropriate people, particularly those who bring their lack of hygiene with them.

Living super clean surrounded by disinfectants is also a cause of people getting sick !

Gordon Wysong, writing in ‘American Thinker’, thinks that the China virus “will save America”.

The American people now know, thanks to the China virus and media reports, that 95% of the antibiotics are made in China. America’s vulnerability has been well and truly exposed.

Wysong wonders whether such a situation will still exist by the next election, with the “Chinese penchant for lying, adulteration, blackmail and price-gouging”. He thinks not because, if it does, a lot of CEOs who handed manufacturing over to China will find themselves unemployed.

Other pharmaceuticals and nutritional supplements are also made in China, thanks the greedy, local employee shedding US companies. America will benefit hugely from a return to domestic production and improved quality.

The China virus is a wake up call. Businesses relying on Chinese production and sole sourcing are “fools beyond words”. China’s “stealth war” has been exposed.

The same thing applies to Australia. While President Trump is likely to act, what about Prime Minister Morrison?

I heard that we'd be hit with a succession of viruses one after the other.
I thought it was a little far fetched, but this news just in:
http://nypost.com/2020/03/24/man-who-died-on-bus-in-china-tests-positive-for-hantavirus/
Well just have to see if this becomes serious or not.

While President Trump is likely to act, what about Prime Minister Morrison?
ttbn,
I hope Morrison does despite the hurdles that'll be put for him just because they can be put up !
I also hope that enough people who call themselves Australian will also warm to the idea of forming a National Service.
Some real radical new thinking is needed right now & this is no time for idealist interruption.
Pay rates need to come down quick-smart, particularly in the non-manufacturing, non-producing sector. We need to become competitive if we want to become less dependable on China & other "cheap" manufacturing countries ! Penalty rates have no place whilst the Nation goes into recovery mode.

Its been confirmed that after this virus business is over, a platoon of Aussie Dads Army, along with a detachment of troops from our ally Ethiopia, will be sailing up the Yangtze on board the gunboat SS ScumO' with the objective of teaching them there red devils a lesson!
On hearing the news, the Chinese are at this moment shaking in their boots and fleeing in terror!

Calling Captain Bilgewater, and the rest of the forums Usual Suspects, we are in need of your sailing skills asap.

individual,

Yes. To get people into work, the minimum wage must be lowered or abolished. The high Australian minimum wage prices the low-skilled, indigenous and youth workers out of the employment market.

Over half of low-paid Australian workers move to higher-paid work within a year; 64% move to higher-paid work within two years and 75% move to higher-paid work within five years.”

Minimum wages in Australian dollars:

Aus $19.49 p.h
NZ. 18.56 p.h
UK. 17.41 p.h
Can. 13.08 p.h
US. 12.24 p.h

ttbn,
It'll be extremely difficult considering voters such as those who want to send gunboats up the Yangtze River, are not usable for any kind of productive employment.
But, it can be done if we send those sailors away on foreign duty for years. Just building all the gun boats required to accommodate them all would create mass employment here !
Imagine the feed-up space available to fill with people with common sense !
Nirvana, here we come !

No, No you have all got it wrong;
The President of Iran has informed us all that the corona virus has come
because women are showing too much ankle.
So our green senator might be right women are the main victims of the virus !

Gee, I though life as we knew it was over, but thank God, one can still get a decent perm, down at 'Hair and Beauty! A 3 hour chat, and a cuppa, a couple of Iced Vovo's, not a worry in the world. A good chin wag with Senior Coiffeur, Doris, and the rest of the girls. A catch up on the latest insider goss from the Royal Family, poor Prince Charles has got the bug, all from a read of my favourite mag 'No Idea'!

What was Morrison thinking! All of the above necessaries could be done in 30 minutes! The man don't know the social importance of a trip to the beauty salon, does he!

The single 'Áged Pension' per fortnight, in economically similar countries in Aussie dollars.

Australia $944.30 p/f
Botswana $0 p/f
Mali $0 p/f
Burkina Faso $0 p/f
Sierra Leone $0 p/f
Burundi $0 p/f
Chad $0 p/f
South Sudan $0 p/f
Central African Republic $0 p/f

Obviously we have to reduce the Aussie Aged Pension to a level to that paid by economically similar countries to Australia (see above list).

Now what do we do with the old folks, well since we are not going down the herd immunity path for coronvirus as popularised by certain conservative Pommy and Yank politicians, we'll have to come up with another solution. The answer.... simple.... Soup Kitchens, and as previously explained my Seniors National Service. The joy of the great outdoors

I thank Indy and others in advance for thinking "what a great idea!"

"what a great idea!"
Paul1405,
Yeah, being an imbecile is right up your alley ! No need to prove it with every post, we've known for a long time !

Hey Paul1405,
The Donald called ScoMo and had words.
He's fuming because ScoMo's made him look bad.
Apparently it takes more than half an hour for Trump's people to glue his wig on straight, and that's before they do his styling and powder puff.
Trump claimed the move was a threat to US National Security, but what really got ScoMo's nose and made him cave was the Donalds threats to ban him and his family from holidays in Hawaii.
ScoMo had no choice to walk it back, so the Donald could save face.
- And here we are -

Hey AC,

Boris Johnson also rang ScumO', wanted to know; "What's a hair salon?" He's never been to such a place, Boris gives new meaning to the saying "having a bad hair day!" Unfortunately Boris seems to have a bad hair day everyday.

Indy, you always have these great ideas to penalise other sections of the community, but not the Aged Welfare mob, why is that, could it be you are wanting to keep all you can get. Like the $1,500 handout to pensioners, many who will receive the free money already have hundreds of thousands stashed in the bank, hardly seems fair.

Paul1405,
You're getting paid so, why not complain about your Welfare payments ?
I & many others have paid up front. Do you ?

AC and individual,

I don't understand why you keep encouraging halfwits by responding to their crazed, infantile comments.

Simple question Indy, I have probably paid as much tax, if not more, than you over the past 50 years in Australia, why do you receive a government handout and I don't. Over that 50 years I put away for my retirement, did you? In the past you have talked of the price of schooners at gods waiting room, that might give us some idea. That crap about paying tax in the past, yes you did, but it was spent by governments in the past for your benefit. Your welfare is now paid by the taxpayers, and government borrowing of today, not something you imagine you put away in the past, you would have got some supa on retirement. Yet you have the hide to crap on those who now, and in the future, will support you. Wanting to cut the minimum wage, cut the bloody pension!

It's time to remind the public about the great ttbn's intellect. Here's a direct quote of his which is an outstanding display of the typical astuteness that he always brings to any conversation:

[the following is from a thread regarding the corona virus outbreak a week or so into Hubei's lockdown]-

"If it wasn't for an hysterical media, we wouldn't know about every virus that popped up. The interest in this one will last about a week, then the ABC and other leftist scaremongers will have to find something else to bellyache about."

Wow!! What a genius! Such foresight and understanding!!

Meanwhile lowly simpletons like me (well simpletons at least in his opinion) were doing stupid idiotic things (well what must appear to him to idiotic) like selling out all their shares in companies that they thought were vulnerable to a global pandemic share as airlines, planting out their vegetables gardens, consistently and methodically building up their reserves of food and supplies by buying a bit extra with each week's shop, moving forward their regular checkups (eg: doctor/dentist), warning family about the potential for this to be an absolute health and economic disaster, etc.

why do you receive a government handout and I don't. Over that 50 years I
Paul1405,
Because you didn't pay tax as most people did, you exploited negative gearing to the fullest !
NG is nothing more than Welfare for business people ! Now why should they be supported AGAIN ?

I don't recall posting the lines two of the halfwits say I did. If I did, I got it wrong. However the halfwits, by digging into the past to 'get something' on other posters, are just continuing to display their childish, nasty natures and demonstrating their only reason for participating on OLO - to constantly nag and harass other posters as a way to fill their dreary, meaningless days. We've recently lost two posters like them: a Foxy and Belly. Those remaining are: SteeleRduxe, Paul 1405, Aidan and, on L plates, thinkabit. Maybe they, too, will go back to pulling wings off flies sometime in the future.

ttbn: "I don't recall posting the lines two of the halfwits say I did. If I did, I got it wrong."

You certainly did post that. I copied and pasted it straight from your comment. And no, I didn't have to go actively "digging into the past to 'get something' on other posters" because I distinctly remembered it. The reason why I remembered it is because at the time it struck me as being especially stupid and naive- outstandingly more idiotic than the usual drivel you write.

And as for "[they] are just continuing to display their childish, nasty natures and demonstrating their only reason for participating on OLO". I would like to point out that in this very thread in the previous post from you to me, you didn't refrain from associating me with a Nazi sympathizer. Most decent people I know would consider this a rather low, nasty, childish act. Especially since the very thing you were charging me with, ie. of effectively being a traitor because I dare to point out that our government's response to this crisis was and is a complete botch-up, is the exact same action that you decry the government of China doing when they "arrested doctors and whistle blowers". Does the word "hypocrisy" mean anything to you??

China will feel the turnaround once it is no longer is the sole supplier of the World.

Indy, just as you paid income tax, but being employed in unskilled menial occupations as you were, you most likely paid minimal tax. You said you were a migrant, probably had difficulty with the language like many refugees at that time. I suppose you were not calling for a reduction in the minimum wage then, considering you were most likely on it.

Oddly, none of the conservative old farts on the Forum are calling for a reduction in the Aged Welfare handout (Pension), I wounder why that is, any ideas?

Dear Hasbeen,

You write;

"We have transferred control of our electronics industry there, both by manufacture of the hardware but also of the mining & production of the metals required for much of modern electronic components & equipment."

Mate you take the cake. You were one of those crowing about the demise of the car industry here forcing us to buy Chinese made vehicles and now you are here bellyaching that the government allowed it to happen.

Sheer gobsmacking hypocrisy old chap

Dear thinkabit,

Did he really say that? "If it wasn't for an hysterical media, we wouldn't know about every virus that popped up. The interest in this one will last about a week, then the ABC and other leftist scaremongers will have to find something else to bellyache about."

Wow. I don't read his stuff so didn't pick it up. It was pretty well the crap most of the right wingers were touting here. I tried pulling mhaze up on his insistence that travelers from the US were not the primary source of infections entering Australia but he wouldn't have a bar of it. Now they lead the world in infections.

What a savagely pompous and ignorant president Trump is but these guys are still on their knees in awe. He really can do no wrong. I see many news outlets in the US are not streaming his briefings live because they so often need serious fact checking. Apparently the US will be back in business straight after Easter.

What a moron. Which is probably why so many fellow travelers here on OLO find him so irresistible.

Speak of the devil, and up pops SteeleRedux, snarling at hasbeen for something he posted three days ago.

Hi thinkabit,

Conservatives are okay people to have in control when things are going great, but soon as a crisis hits they are, by their very nature at a loss. Morrison needed to be proactive on the coronavirus from the start, but like a true conservative he chose to take the easier but somewhat disastrous "wait and see" reactive approach. The experts offer various alternatives for consideration, its the leadership that has to make the decisions. The big test for Morrison and the state and territory leaders is how well they are able to flatten the curve, in other words keep the outbreak to manageable dimensions, and thus save lives.

Perhaps if, as Geoffrey Luck writes in today's Quadrant Online, " …. the medical advice had been given in private, as it should have been, Greg Hunt, a competent minister would have been in a position to require an immediate and continuing evaluation of the statistics as a basis for policy."

And if it hadn't been implied that what had happened in China and elsewhere was a dead certainly here, we wouldn't now have an artificially created recession that has shut down half of the country's economy, and seen billions of dollars thrown to the undeserving, created a stock market rout and induced an economic collapse. Only people put out of work should be getting compensation. The rest is Keynesian economy trashing, the silliest being $750, or whatever it ends up being, to pensioners. And I stand to get the payment!

The government should have looked at the panic buying it helped start before it started slinging money around. It's not very comfortable wiping your arse on banknotes.

yep Paul we certainly need the regressives in power at this stage banging on about the gw fraud and identity politics. They have no other policies.

thinkabit,

If you don't like it being hinted at that you are undermining your own country like William Joyce or the Norwegian Vidkun Quisling don't do it, even theoretically and safely, as you do here.

Unfortunately, we do not have a conservative government, and the one we do have is acting in the same Keynesian way as the Rudd Socialist government did during the GFC. Apart from the people who have lost their jobs, thanks to a supremely socialist (Communist) government, there is no shortage of buying power.

Those 'racist' Chinese have now closed their borders. Every regressive that criticised Trump from stopping the Chinese bringing more carriers into the country are silent! Hmmm!

The China virus has caused the private sector workforce to suffer, while public servants continue enjoying better pay and conditions than those available to private sector workers when they are working. There's no chance of public servants losing their jobs.

Perhaps the Government could cut their spending to help those less fortunate in the private sector.

The Commonwealth pay bill is $22 billion. As an ex-public servant, I'm dead certain that there is a lot of dead wood that could be cut, and money saved.

Then there are departments that could be done away with altogether. One such being the The Clean Energy Finance Corporation, which has done little other than give Australia the fourth highest electricity prices in the world, by chucking around $10 billion of taxpayers money per year.

The $444 million grant to the Great Barrier Reef Authority could be recovered, and the Authority's employees be given the chance to compete in the private sector.

The ABC could be sold off for $10 billion dollars.

And there's a lot more useless fat on the Australian public service that would go a long way protect the economy from the disaster of the China virus.

calling for a reduction in the Aged Welfare
Paul1405,
No need for that but they should curb the handouts you're collecting !

Dear runner,

I certainly didn't criticise him but instead I got flack when I wanted Americans barred from entering Australia even when it was obvious they were the leading cause of infections.

mhaze called it Trump derangement syndrome.

Trump called it a hoax.

ttbn, now Mr Zero Credibility, how about we get the aged welfare mob to pull their snouts out of the taxpayer funded govvy trough. Now that would save $20 billion. Agree?

Now that would save $20 billion. Agree?
Paul1405,
Getting the likes of you off the Govt Apron would save double that !

SR,

I still struggle to work out whether you are just too thick to follow the logic of a thread or are just an habitual liar.

Case in point: " I tried pulling mhaze up on his insistence that travelers from the US were not the primary source of infections entering Australia but he wouldn't have a bar of it."

That's utterly wrong. Utterly wrong. Nowhere, NOWHERE, did I make any such claim. The only point I made about this was that your claim that the US was the largest "of the rest" was not based on any facts. You'd found a list with the US at the top and had asserted (a claim without facts) that it was there because it had the highest numbers. But there was no evidence for that. NO EVIDENCE. And I simply pointed that out.

Now, of course, you, as is your want, rather than admitting to exaggeration or fudging, went off on some vague attempts to muddy the water.

Here's my post: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=20781#366367

I'd ask that you acknowledge and/or apologise for your error/lie but since we are dealing with SR for whom ethics is a four-letter word....well it ain't gunna happen.

Hilariously, even SR didn't originally make the claim that the US was "primary source of infections entering Australia" which he now claims I disputed. His original assertion ( a claim without evidence) was that the US was the biggest "After Wuhan, Iran and the Diamond Princess". So the dill can't even get own views right, let alone mine. So perhaps not a liar, just a moron.

More SR moronosity:

"I wanted Americans barred from entering Australia even when it was obvious they were the leading cause of infections."

They never were the leading cause of infections. Even SR didn't claim that.

"Trump called it a hoax."

No he didn't. Just another factoid that SR prefers to believe rather than get the truth.

Like everything available to us we can now add

CORONAVIRUS - MADE IN CHINA

"I still struggle to work out whether you are just too thick to follow the logic of a thread or are just an habitual liar." (mhaze on SteeleRedux).

Both thick and a liar. Our coordinator recently declared SR to be dishonest; and his witless, Left ideology, which has him lashing out at just about everyone except his daft acolyte, Paul 1405, is obvious to all. They both miss being buttered up by the thankfully departed Foxy, and are now themselves the dregs of ratbaggery. They can't express themselves without being abusive or unpleasant to other posters. Ignoring them is the only way to go.

Of course Trump never claimed that the corona virus was a hoax as those suffering from delusion claim.

That left whingers love to nit pick others' claims but are patently careless about theirs is less ironic than simply dishonest.

Dear mhaze,

Lol.

This really has become your default hasn't it. Torturing past posts to create straw men in order to deflect from grievous missteps.

This is what I posted on that same thread;

Quote

Dear mhaze,

Here you go.

"Authorities have provided information about specific destinations in only half of the cases acquired overseas.

Among those cases, the United States was the most common country visited, followed by Italy, China, Iran and the UK."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-data-reveals-how-covid-19-is-spreading-in-australia/12060704

End quote

This is what you were putting as evidence that your president was doing such an awesome job;

Quote

The Countries Best And Worst Prepared For An Epidemic...."The United States was named as the country with the strongest measures in place and it came first with 83.5 out of 100."

or

"WHO Chief Praises Trump for Leading Coronavirus Response From the Top".

End quote.

Looks like events have caught you out and now you are lashing out.

Unedifying to say the least.

I did like this breakdown of the ad which Trump (your president) is trying to get removed from TV stations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGUpS5s7y

Our government should have consulted Taiwan. Only 266 cases of China virus and 2 deaths. Life is as normal with none of the restrictions we have. Children all at school with screens around each child.

The main difference - they test EVERYWHERE. You can't go into shops or public buildings without having your temperature checked.

Result: a fully functioning economy, unlike ours.

SR,

* You claimed that I insisted " that travelers from the US were not the primary source of infections entering Australia".

* I made no such claim.

* You know (now) that I made no such claim and that you made it up (ie you lied) and/or got it wrong (ie you're a fool).

* You remain incapable of admitting that.

Come on, SR. Do the right thing for once. It'll do you good and, who knows, it might even be habit forming.

I'm not at all sure what the rest of your raving was about other than your usual attempt to change the subject when you realise you're wrong (or been outed).

In January and February, China was shipping tons of medical supplies and protective gear from Australia to Wu Han . This was after they criticised Australia for closing our borders and assured us that we had nothing to fear from their virus.

A Chinese property company, Greenland Australia, bought up pharmaceuticals and protective equipment and shipped it by private jet to China, leaving us short.

Further proof that China treats Australia like a shopping mall, and that all Chinese companies in Australia are just fronts for the Chinese Communist Party.

But, where was the Australian government when this was going on!

'But, where was the Australian government when this was going on!'

probably discussing the gw fraud.

'But, where was the Australian government when this was going on!'

Where were the Australian consumers during that time ? Buying everything Chinese made because it is "cheaper" ?

Will the Wuhan virus be the wake up call Australia needs to distance itself from China.

30 plus years of licking China's ass, selling the country's assets off to the Chinese and bringing in millions of cashed up Chinese migrants to get our hands on their money has in a matter of a few weeks been wiped out as a result of them sending us their Wuhan virus.

Dear mhaze,

Wait a second, do you really believe what you are trying to put? I'm not sure as you might be taking the piss.

If you had attacked my premise as baseless and left it at that you might have an argument. But you didn't did you.

You instead followed it with two specific quotes about how good Trump was and how prepared America was therefore strongly putting the position the USA could not be at the top of the list for those reasons.

Now you are trying to claim you meant no such thing.

Are you still standing by you President is the real question here. How do you think he is going now?

Well?

You have backed an idiot and now you are trying to muddy the waters with slippery denials. Very unedifying old chap.

Yes SR, it get that you desperately want to change the subject or hide the fact that you fabricated the claim.

But you said I'd insisted " that travelers from the US were not the primary source of infections entering Australia".

AND I DIDN'T. And you can't show where I said anything even vaguely like that. That I said other things in the same thread, unrelated to the issue of people coming from overseas to Australia, is neither here not there. But you desperately want to muddy the waters on this. Desperate men take desperate measures. Foolish men take foolish measures.

"How do you think he is going now?"

Desperately trying to change the subject?

Well I might address this in a while but in the meantime I'd prefer to let yours lies dangle in the breeze.

Dear mhaze,

ROFL.

You claim "That I said other things in the same thread, unrelated to the issue of people coming from overseas to Australia, is neither here not there."

You said it in the same bloody post mate. Here it is again in its entirety;

Quote

SR wrote: "The USA is at the top of that list because they contributed more infected travellers to Australia than any of the rest."

Well actually, nowhere does the Guardian article or the release from the Dept of Health say that the list is in any particular order. So did SR just make that bit up? Is that why there was no link? Perish the thought :)

I know in the land of Trump Derangement Syndrome, everything Trump does is, by default, wrong, but just for the fun of it....

The Countries Best And Worst Prepared For An Epidemic...."The United States was named as the country with the strongest measures in place and it came first with 83.5 out of 100."

or

"WHO Chief Praises Trump for Leading Coronavirus Response From the Top".

Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 11 March 2020 3:38:18 PM

End quote.

Why lie? You have been called out, found out and out done, and don't have the good grace to quit.

And of course you don't have anything to say about Trump right now because there isn't very much you could say is there. You are going to wait to see if you can put some kind of typical mhaze spin on the hole you have again dug yourself.

When are you lot going to cut this bloke loose?

I just saw on the news where a lot of private hospitals are owned by Chinese companies who have just decided to sack their staff and close down.

Another wake up call for Australia. And what an FN embarrassment for the LNP who have been pushing for these sorts of takeovers as part of their jobs and growth economic policy grounded in Chinese cash.

"President Trump has referred to the coronavirus outbreak as “an unforeseen problem,” as “something that nobody expected,” and as a crisis that “came out of nowhere.”

"IT IS DEMONSTRABLY NONE OF THE ABOVE....THE SYSTEM WAS BLINKING RED”

"The systemic failure stems in part from the fact that in recent decades successive administrations including TRUMPS, have not treated pandemic preparedness with the degree of seriousness they reserved for addressing other top security threats, from, say, terrorists or adversarial nations."

"Luciana Borio, in 2018, then director for medical and biodefense preparedness at the National Security Council, told a symposium that “the threat of pandemic flu is our number-one health security concern.” Serving under Trump who’d come to office on the pledge to wall off the United States, she noted that such a threat could not “be stopped at the border.” The very next day, news broke that National Security Adviser John Bolton had shuttered the NSC’s unit for preparing and responding to pandemics, of which Luciana Borio was then a part. The White House official in charge of spearheading such a response to infectious threats departed as well and was not replaced.

TRUMP REFUSED TO BELIEVE THERE WAS A CREDITABLE THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES FROM A PANDEMIC, he got it TOTALLY WRONG, and the US will have to wear the consequences of his poor judgement and inaction.

Hey Paul1405,
"The very next day, news broke that National Security Adviser John Bolton had shuttered the NSC’s unit for preparing and responding to pandemics, of which Luciana Borio was then a part. The White House official in charge of spearheading such a response to infectious threats departed as well and was not replaced."

- Something smells a little 'off'

Hey AC,

The evidence that this is an 'American Virus' is circumstantial, is there a smoking gun, no, but the barrel is warm. If it was "germ warfare" then its a crime against humanity. Would the Americans have the motives, the means and the morality to carry out such an act, yes, yes and yes. The motive being to destroy the Chinese economy in an economic war the Americans are losing. The means to carry out such an atrocious act, simply low grade technology required for delivery, and America would be capable of doing so with their eyes closed, would they care about millions of dead Chinese, not particularly.

If this was so, then Trump would not be trusted by the elites to be anything more than a "glove puppet", a buffoon to act as a mouthpiece to give out disinformation. Johnson, Morison and others are only minor players who would be given the official line to follow.

The irony may be instead of destroying the Chinese economy as intended, the Capitalists have shot themselves right between the eyes. China comes out on top as the worlds number one economy, and America is left battling with Ethiopia for economic position number 212 in the world. Australia is left somewhere behind those two, fighting for a one percent share of the worlds camel dung market.

Some Queenslanders are not best pleased at being forced out to vote today, given the other restrictions on gatherings and the number people who can attend events.

Paul,

You have gone 100% looney tunes with your chinese fabricated conspiracy theory.

That there's strong scientific evidence that it was not a manufactured virus, that China desperately tried to cover up its discovery and spread has been accepted by the entire rational world.

But then you were never really interested in the truth only trolling.

Shadow, they say love is blind, and your love for Trump, and all thing American is touching, but unrealistic. Can you dispute any of the facts I have presented. When you disagree you throw out that old thorny chestnut of yours, "You are a troll". If anyone on the forum is a troll,its YOU!

Look at your leaders, ScumÒ' and Big Nose Gladdy, how many people will contract coronavirus all over Australia because of their mishandling of the Ruby Princess fiasco. The numbers from that cruse ship contracting the virus because of that incompetence are coming through now. What do you have to say about that

Paul1405 and Shadow Minister,

Please don't get carried way in useless debates about conspiracy theories.

The Wuhan virus originated in a Wuhan wet market guy with a regular coronavirus when he came into contact with an animal virus that was able to latch itself onto the guy resulting in a mutated form of his coronavirus which is now COVID-19 or as Mike Pompeo I think best called it, the Wuhan virus.

The scuttlebutt I've been getting is that COVID-19 is still mutating and becoming more infectious and deadlier than the source virus.

Do either of you believe China's claim that it has won the fight against the epidemic and would be totally clean if it wasn't for people now bringing the Wuhan virus into its territory?

Paul,

You have yet to post any evidence probably because there is none.

Shadow Minister,

I get the impression that you believe what China is reporting, that it has beaten the epidemic and is clean apart from incoming infections.

The story I heard was that a woman fishmonger in the Wu Han wet market fell ill, was tested, inaccurately, and returned to work, where she infected all and sundry. The woman is still alive and kicking.

If this doesn't jolt our Govt into restarting our own manufacturing then we might as well call it a day now.
The unions need to take a rest in isolation so Govt can redesign the wages structure in order to get the ball rolling !
The first step is to reduce the above 200 Grand/year Public Service salaries which are a major drain on the coffers for no warranted reason. Industries & service can keep moving albeit at much reduced cost to enable our economy to become sustainable. There is no alternative anyway !
Our dependency on Chinese manufacturing must be quelled as quickly as possible. If we play our cards right the Chinese will be depending on us more than we depend on them now !
All we need to do is knock our home-grown greed on the head !

individual,

I reckon a lot of people are thinking along the same lines as you.

It will be interesting to see what historians and sociologists have say about this catastrophe.

It is said that every cloud has a silver line, the China virus included. Malcolm Turnbull's memoir launch tour has been cancelled, and the book's price reduced by 30%. Greta Thunderpants claims to have the virus although she admits that she hasn't been tested. She is more likely to have the relevance-deprivation virus since she and her climate nonsense have been swept from the media

SR,

Thanks for reposting my entire post. I've always thought that this site would be immeasurably improved if my posts were issued twice. It seems you agree.

And by showing my entire post people can see that you are utterly wrong when...you said I'd insisted " that travelers from the US were not the primary source of infections entering Australia".AND I DIDN'T.

Thanks for playing.

Sadly, even a cat playing with a mouse victim finally gets bored with it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97v3-GrMd2M) so I'll leave your idiocy unremarked from now on and move on.

Trump is doing wonderfully well in this crisis and that's reflected in his poll approval numbers. In the face of China's and WHO's bastardry, Trump has faced the problem and pulled all the right strings. To be sure, like everyone else on the planet, they've been hampered by disinformation from China/WHO and have consequently made some mis-steps. But overall, the US should be an is thankful that Trump's in charge.

OTOH, as more and better information comes in, it may well be that the best reaction would have been to treat the Wuhan virus as just another flu. But no nation did that, although the UK initial considered it. We'll see over the next few months.

Its also been interesting to see how easily and uncomplainingly Australians have given up fundamental freedoms.

"Thanks for reposting my entire post. I've always thought that this site would be immeasurably improved if my posts were issued twice. It seems you agree."

That made me chuckle. I suppose laughter is the best antidote to SR, next to ignoring him completely.

From Steve Kates comes all that need be said about the whys and wherefores of the China virus:

"If any facts have actually been established they are that the CV originated in Wuhan, China and that the Chinese authorities suppressed all information about its existence and its pandemic potential until eventually it had spread across the world."

"The Chinese Communist Party’s obsession with perception over truth was actually how the saga of this global pandemic began.” (Anon)

ttbn,

China is more worried about its reputation than it is about all of the deaths and misery it has inflicted on the world with its Wuhan virus.

Something interesting there !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8SNxSMK6vQ

ScuMo got up in front of the press today and claimed that the daily rate of the infections over the last couple of days has decreased substantially.

Really? Not according the Wikipedia which is a very reliable source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Australia

In fact the daily rate went from 13% on 27/3 to 14% on 28/3. So what the hell is he talking about? Wishful thinking I reckon.

Dear mhaze,

You said; “Thanks for reposting my entire post. I've always thought that this site would be immeasurably improved if my posts were issued twice. It seems you agree.”

Oh indeed I do. In fact thrice is probably appropriate to show how duplicitous you are. Here you go;

Quote

SR wrote: "The USA is at the top of that list because they contributed more infected travellers to Australia than any of the rest."

Well actually, nowhere does the Guardian article or the release from the Dept of Health say that the list is in any particular order. So did SR just make that bit up? Is that why there was no link? Perish the thought :) I know in the land of Trump Derangement Syndrome, everything Trump does is, by default, wrong, but just for the fun of it....

The Countries Best And Worst Prepared For An Epidemic...."The United States was named as the country with the strongest measures in place and it came first with 83.5 out of 100." or "WHO Chief Praises Trump for Leading Coronavirus Response From the Top".

Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 11 March 2020 3:38:18 PM

End quote

All within the one post and not elsewhere in the thread as you were so quick to claim.

Showing you exposed thus is worth a repeat any day of the week. Perhaps it will inspire you to mend your ways or perhaps not.

You have again claimed for your president; “Trump is doing wonderfully well in this crisis and that's reflected in his poll approval numbers.” His polling numbers are worse than for any other American President since WW2 at the same stage of their presidency. I will post the link again.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Yet there you sit, determined to ignore the bleeding obvious. Must be a weird space you are inhabiting right now. Cultish in fact.

Look after yourself.

Good on 'ya Mhaze, you really have that Steelrudex pegged and its' last post shows it's nothing but a bag of hot air.

Whilst not a regular poster I'd like to offer some advice Steelrudex, stick to issue and stop twisting, turning, insulting and diverting, you never know you may gain some some respect.

Cheers

Ross

Dear FireballXL5,

Lol.

You advise; “stick to issue and stop twisting, turning, insulting and diverting, you never know you may gain some some respect”.

And yet this is what you delivered on you third last post: “Crikey philips, you really are a phallus see!”. That was it, nothing else. What kind of respect were you thinking you would gain from that little effort?

Perhaps you might understand why taking advice from you would hardly be a logical thing to do now would it.

If you felt my last post was hot air I am assuming you don't think Trump is the most unpopular president since WW2 at this stage of his presidency which is mhaze's position it seems. Well mate I'm all ears. Prove it.

"The story I heard was that a woman fishmonger..." ttbn There's those voices in your head again. Now where did you hear that?

Steelrudex, you are either an ex/current politician or used car salesperson and therefore have the gift of the Blarney Stone, I shan't be engaging with you.

Get a big woolly bull up ya old cock :)

Cheers

Ross

FireballXL5,

Not too sure if SR is a politician or car salesman but one thing I can tell you is that most on The Forum are middling types especially engineers who are frustrated because they are not Arts types like historians, archaeologists, anthropologists, sociologists, philosophers, etc.

Apparently there has been concern around the traps that the totally unqualified ABC's Norman Swan is putting out information on the China virus and what should be done that directly contradicts the advice supplied by the Chief Medical Officer. Swan is not even a practising physician, having been an ABC activist since 1982.

Sinclair Davidson, not unreasonably, asks " If ordinary Australians are being asked to make extraordinary and, quite frankly, astonishing sacrifices can we really afford to keep the Australian Broadcasting Corporation on a business as usual basis?"

"Apparently there has been concern around the traps" Yes ttbn, from the hard right media, led by the Murdoch gutter press.

The coverage of the pandemic from the ABC, like its bushfire coverage, has been first class. It leaves the misinformation and sensationalism from the private media for dead. Doctor Norm Swan has articulated strong advice from the outset, and it has been sound advice, unlike the muddling messages, supposedly coming from medical experts, from the likes of ScumO' and Big Nose Gladdys! BTW, 2 dead and 100's with the virus all over Australia so far from the 2700 people those clowns let off the 'Ruby Princess' cruse ship in Sydney.

Dr Norman Swan is known outside Australia. He has been the Australian correspondent for the Journal of the American Medical Association and the British Medical Journal and has consulted for the World Health Organisation in Geneva. He is also a fellow of the Royal College of Physicians of Glasgow. Just as you attack Dr Swan as being unqualified in pandemics, you could attack Australia's CMO Professor Brendan Murphy on the same grounds, but why would you

Paul1405,

I enjoy reading your comments. It is good to see that there are people like you who see the world for what it is and are not afraid to call a spade a shovel.

We need bodies like the ABC to help us prevent certain types of people from perverting truths and manipulating our social institutions to their advantage. Do we want to see a Hitler or a Putin or a Xi or a Kim running the country? We need the ABC to expose the evils that pop up from time to time.

Dear FireballXL5,

It is pretty standard fare for you lot isn't it. Dishing it out but when it comes back at you you bleat on about how unfair and disrespectful it is.

Solution? Don't engage in it in the first place.

Mr 0,
If you look at that Wikipedia article you linked to, you'll find the rate over the last few days has been much lower than a week earlier. That's what the PM was referring to.

More laughs from SteeleRdux, who is incapable of practising what he preaches to an newcomer, who was right onto his rubbish as soon as he arrived.

"We need bodies like the ABC to help us prevent certain types of people from perverting truths and manipulating our social institutions to their advantage."

According to the 'set a thief to catch a thief 'theory?

The ABC is the home ground of "perverting truths" and "manipulating social institutions".

Sorry SR, but you can't butter me up like this. Showing my post for a third time just seems like creepy adulation but there's no way to get on my sweet side over this. My wife might be able to butter me up like that but she has attributes that (I assume) you lack. So you've been shown to be an inveterate and unrepentant purveyor of false accusations and there's just no way out of that. Just try to do better next time.

As to the Trump polling I was referring more to specific polling about his handling of the virus crisis.. eg http://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2020-03/topline-abc-news-coronavirus-032020.pdf

("Do you approve or disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling the response to the coronavirus (COVID-19)?" - approve 55%, disapprove 43%)

SR, you've been wrong about Trump from the moment he descended the escalators to announce his candidacy for president. So its no surprise that you're wrong again. But one would hope you'd learn. But alas. Still most of the media you rely on to tell you what to think have been wrong as well, so perhaps not so surprising.

mhaze, 'The Donald', an absolute nincompoop! but you love him. According to 'The Donald', his claim that America would be back in business by Easter was only "aspirational".The Donald is complaining that the cure is worse than the problem and had floated Easter Sunday as a “beautiful timeline” for reopening big swathes of the country. Also according to 'The Donald', if his administration keeps the death toll to 100,000, it will have done “a very good job”. 'The Donald' is verbally abusing reporters who question what he has previously said. On the question of a shortage of face masks for front line medical staff, 'The Donald' has implied health care workers are stealing masks, without providing any evidence. AND YOU LOVE THIS GUY! A TOTAL LUNATIC IN CHARGE OF THE ASYLUM!

Trump derangement syndrome growing by the minute. Gives you a good laugh in the midst of tradegy. Meanwhile the regressives are desperately trying to draw attention to themselves as approval ratings for Trump increase and the regressives lying left liberal media is exposed day by day. They are happy for everything to be shut down except planned parenthood. I mean we could not possibly reduce murdering the unborn could we?

"'The Donald', an absolute nincompoop! "

Who keeps outsmarting all those who are political enemies and all those suffering TDS. I wonder how you reconcile that? Or do you just ignore it?

" his claim that America would be back in business by Easter"
He didn't say it would be back by Easter. He said he hoped to get it done by Easter. But what have facts got to do with it, eh?

"The Donald is complaining that the cure is worse than the problem"
No...no....no. He said he didn't want the cure to be worse than the problem. I wish Morrison/Hunt would adopt that policy as well.

" if his administration keeps the death toll to 100,000, it will have done “a very good job”."

Yes, and? Since the initial estimate was 20 million, and even now the experts say 200000, that seems to be a good number. Would you prefer him to lie?

"The Donald' has implied health care workers are stealing masks,"

Well he didn't but I'm sure the media you rely on to tell you what to think told you differently.

"without providing any evidence."

Well based on your post, you'd know all about that.

mhaze, the US Surgeon General warned Trump that government inaction would see 100,000 to 200,000 Americans die from the coronavirus. Trump took that to mean 100,000 deaths would be “a very good job" on his part. THE MANS A NINCOMPOOP!

mhaze,

"President Donald Trump alleged that a New York hospital lost protective masks or even allowed them to be stolen, questioning how demand for the product could have spiked so rapidly during the coronavirus outbreak."

What Trump said on Sunday;

“How do you go from 10 to 20, to 300,000 -- 10 to 20,000 masks to 300,000, even though this is different. Something’s going on, and you ought to look into it, as reporters,” Trump said.

“Where are the masks going --ARE THEY GOING OUT THE BACK DOOR?” he added. “Somebody should probably look into that, because I just don’t see from a practical standpoint how that’s possible to go from that to that, and we have that HAPPENING IN NUMEROUS PLACES.”

Without evidence, Trump implied health care workers are stealing masks.

THE MANS A NINCOMPOOP!

Paul,

It'd really be of help if you bothered to offer even one link to, or evidence, of the assertions you make.

Here's what happened re the 100K deaths thing:

"Dr. Anthony Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, also provided a sense of scale Sunday [that is 29 March], but he said he doesn't want to be held to any prediction. Fauci told CNN's Jake Tapper that he's never seen an outbreak match the worst-case scenario of its models, and he believes that remains unlikely for the coronavirus [ie the Wuhan Virus], as well. Nevertheless, he thinks it's possible the U.S. could be looking at somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 deaths."

http://theweek.com/speedreads/905565/some-cruise-ship-crew-members-stuck-board-because-coronavirus-arent-getting-paid

http://theweek.com/speedreads/905557/trump-coronavirus-death-toll-100000-mean-administration-did-good-job

Nothing about "government inaction". That's just something you or the people you rely on to tell you what to think, made up.

There is a nincompoop here, but he's closer to home.

Dear mhaze,

I really didn't peg you for having a sadomasochistic bent but if you keep calling out to be repeatedly humiliated I suppose the facts speak for themselves.

It does of course show you to be 'an inveterate and unrepentant purveyor of false accusations and there's just no way out of that'.

You say; “SR, you've been wrong about Trump from the moment he descended the escalators to announce his candidacy for president. So its no surprise that you're wrong again. But one would hope you'd learn. But alas.”

You are spot on. When he was first elected I actually thought he might have gron pat his TV persona and really delivered for the ordinary people who voted for him. Instead he has filled the swamp to the brim and been judged by repeated polling to be the worst president since WW2.

I still remember those heady days when after the Las Vegas shooting he was going to act on gun control, or when he was convinced about the need to act on climate change.

So yes I was wrong and you were right, his lying, his bullying, his lack of intelligence have all shown your president to be something only the broad cultists could applaud. Oh well, perhaps next time.

Morons need to be appeased too !

mhaze, I am in favour of Trump as political leader of the United States of America. In fact I would like Trump to be made President for life, the American people given what their country has done to the rest of the world, deserve nothing less. The other bloke Biden, he is only a Trump with a slightly bigger brain, no value there.

For all the China knockers, I suggest you look at that great democracy of India for inspiration on coronavirus. ScumO' made a point about China welding doors shut, when this is all over, and we count the cost in human lives, lets compare the door welders to the footy goers, and see who comes out the best.

Paul1405,

I think what you are trying to tell us is that Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison is an IDIOT.

Hi Mr O,

The problem with Morrison and his government is simple, they have done many of the right things, but in half measure and in retrospect. With this virus, time is of the essence, decisions, that's where political leadership comes in, must be of the proactive kind, not simply reactive. Morrison has been very much reactive, failing as they say to get in front of the curve. Advisers are only there to advise, and offer suggestions and alternatives, at the end of the day its the leadership that must make the bold decisions and take responsibility. On the medical issues Morrison has looked very much for the safe alternative, and then acted accordingly, not wanting to impact the economy, when that should not of been of greater concern. If things go wrong Morrison will be quick to blame the medical advice he received.

The other area the government fell down early, was giving too much consideration and importance to the economic issues, and by default less importance to the medical issues. That attitude simply slowed down the medical response. The government instead of treating both with equal impotence, should have given a much higher priority to making bold decisions based on the medical need, and attacked the economic problems a little while later.

Mr O, I value your comments, like that of Steele's greatly', a refreshing and intelligent change from those of the crusty old farts. On the 'Coronavirus Package' thread. I'm interested on what you think about what I've said.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9120&page=0#301414

Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 30 March 2020 5:39:33 AM

In NSW, anyone who leaves their (sic) house without a reasonable excuse will face a fine of $11,000. (SMH). That's either over top, or the New South Welsh are incapable of acting sensibly (think Bondi beach).

It could also be a gross over-reaction from a panicking, incompetent Premier

Paul wrote:"Without evidence, Trump implied health care workers are stealing masks."

Paul probably didn't notice it, but even in the things he quoted, Trump didn't mention health care workers. That was just something Paul, or the people he relies on to tell him what to think, made up.

By way of background, for weeks New York had been complaining that they weren't given enough ventilators. All Trump's fault, of course. Then it was revealed that they in fact had a massive 'stockpile' of ventilators stored for later use. Trump was suggesting that the same fate might have occurred to the masks being sent out.
You probably didn't hear about the stockpile stuff up because, as Jim Treacher says, "Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn’t know because they might reflect badly on Democrats."

So Paul, you've made a series of assertions about Trump 'errors', none of which are true. But change your mind....fat chance.

" lets compare the door welders to the footy goers"

Well before you get too carried away with your swooning over the door welders, you might ponder this..."[Boris] "Johnson has been warned by scientific advisers that China's officially declared statistics on the number of cases of coronavirus could be 'downplayed by a factor of 15 to 40 times."

SR,

"he might have gron pat his TV persona"
Huh?

" when after the Las Vegas shooting he was going to act on gun control, or when he was convinced about the need to act on climate change."
Huh?

I was talking more about how you'd fallen HL&S for the Russian collusion story, the Trump as a warmonger meme, Trump destroying the economy meme, Trump being wrong on Warren's heritage meme, Trump loosing the trade war moronosity etc etc

mhaze said; "Then it was revealed that they in fact had a massive 'stockpile' of ventilators" No evidence provided just what mhaze said.

mhaze said; "warned by scientific advisers that China's officially declared statistics on the number of cases of coronavirus could be 'downplayed by a factor of 15 to 40 times." could be 15,000 to 40,000 times, could be anything you like it to be. No evidence from mhaze as to who are these "scientific advisers", and where did their assertion come from? Maybe the same scientific advisers, advised Boris to go around shacking hands with everyone. Anyone can be a scientific adviser, even you mhaze, now that's saying something.

mhaze, I told you I am happy for your man Trump to be President for life, even longer, the Americans deserve him. I don't much care for American politics, they are what they are. Are you a YANK! I think so

Paul1405,

I concur with what you are saying.

It's useless trying to talk to The Forum's Old Farts Club members. Their knowledge of the world is extremely poor and they are the sort of people who would sell you off to China before you could say "Wuhan virus".

Paul,

"No evidence provided just what mhaze said."

Oh evidence that you were wrong .... http://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/27/gov-andrew-cuomo-admits-stockpile-of-thousands-of-unused-ventilators/

"could be 15,000 to 40,000 times, could be anything"

Yes it could be anything. We'll probably never know just as we don't know how many people were killed in the Great Leap Forward or the Tienanmen massacre.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3?op=1&r=US&IR=T

But what I was alerting you and others who haven't seen a Chinese lie they didn't immediately accept as gospel is that only the most credulous think the Chinese figures are true. It could be 15 times or 40 times or 10 times. But the current figures are a fantasy. So planning on comparing the door welders with the rest is a fools errand.

" I don't much care for American politics..."

Well you do until you find out that your fantasies about Trump are just that.

"Are you a YANK!"

No. But I do recognise that the future and well-being of Australia is intimately linked to the future and well-being of the USA

Dear mhaze,

'grown past'

You wrote; "I was talking more about how you'd fallen HL&S for the Russian collusion story, the Trump as a warmonger meme, Trump destroying the economy meme, Trump being wrong on Warren's heritage meme, Trump loosing the trade war moronosity etc etc"

You are doing it again. Utterly making things up. I welcomed the US getting out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and hoped the whole thing would fall over. It was you lot who were spruiking its benefits and now you have somehow landed on the other end of side of the debate. I just can't keep up.

As to him destroying the economy all I did was to point out he was driving the economy off the back of some serious deficits. If you are of the opinion now that deficits are not a problem well okay.

Your president was of course wrong on Warren not having any Indian heritage as the genetic results showed. He should have paid up.

And where did I say he was a war monger?

I really don't know what imagined conversations have gone on in your head but perhaps a read through my post history might serve to separate reality from delusion.

Does anyone know if this is a Chinese mining company:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/fears-for-water-quality-after-nsw-allows-coalmining-extension-under-sydneys-worona-reservoir/ar-BB11VXPS

Mr O,

"Does anyone know if this is a Chinese mining company"

Its not .....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peabody_Energy

SR,

"Utterly making things up. I welcomed the US getting out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership..."

Well good. I didn't mention it in any way, shape or form, so the segue, and quite what I made up, is unclear, but nonetheless...

"Your president was of course wrong on Warren not having any Indian heritage as the genetic results showed."

This is quintessential SR. Even Warren now admits to not being an Indian. But SR, being psychologically incapable of acknowledging error, soldiers on in his fantasy-world.

And just to round off the delusions in this thread from the likes of SR and Paul_etc....China is Asshole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fwgVUfW_O4

mhaze, you said; "I do recognise that the future and well-being of Australia is intimately linked to the future and well-being of the USA"

Has that been the case in the past, since WWII, when as a subservient follower of the United States we have been dragged into US wars of aggression in Asia, Afghanistan and the Middle East. Blindly being drawn into these wars of aggression, where millions perished at the hands of the aggressor, what conceivable benefits did this little flunkie receive? Nothing but dead Australians, and being made a nuclear target, not even a voice to be listened to by others.

Once this coronavirus is over, America will once more look for another war of aggression to boost its failing economy. In such an event should Australia blindly follow its political master? I think not, I favour Australia to be nonaligned with any foreign power, including the United States and China.

Paul1405,
Found this today !
Is this our fault! Only because we are innocent and gullible OLD AGE PENSION QUIETLY CHANGED TO WELFARE PAYMENT
The Old Age Pension cheque is now (or soon will be) referred to as a "Low Income Aged Persons Welfare?"
I'll be part of the one percent to forward this. I am forwarding it because it touches a nerve in me, and I hope it will in you. Please keep passing it on until everyone in our country has read it.

The 7.5% of our wages deducted before tax for the whole of our working lives has been stolen by both sides of politics in collusion to pay skyrocketing welfare and foreign aid budgets.

If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that's close to $120,000 harvested by the government pension fund.

If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in a pension ($375/month at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly), after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!

This is your personal investment. Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month.

That's almost three times more than today's average Old Age Pension benefit of $1,230 per month.
Except I have never met any pensioner who actually gets this much!

And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retire at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average-income people could live in retirement if our government had just invested our money in low-risk interest-earning accounts.

The thieves in Canberra pulled off a bigger "Ponzi scheme" than Bernie Madoff ever did. They took our money and used it elsewhere. They forgot (oh yes, they knew) that it was OUR money they were taking. They didn't have a referendum to ask us if we wanted to lend the money to them. And they didn't pay interest on the debt they assumed. And recently they've told us that the money won't support us for very much longer.

But is it our fault they misused our investments? And now, to add insult to injury, they're calling it "welfare", as if we never worked to earn every penny of it.

Just because they borrowed the money doesn't mean that our investments were a charity!

Let's take a stand . We have earned our right to our pensions. Demand that our MP's bring some sense into our government.

Find a way to keep Old Age Pension going for the sake of that 92% of our population who need it.

Then call it what it is: Our Earned Retirement Income.

Dear individual,

Well look here, we agree on something.

This and the drive Medicare and public hospitals as only for the less fortunate is stripping the notion of us as an egalitarian nation.

Universal healthcare and universal aged pensions have been the target for right wing governments for decades. The likelihood that this current crisis will be used for radically changing our society is growing.

Dear mhaze,

I think you are growing far too fond of your words being reposted. You must stop or people will talk.

This is what you claimed of me;

"I was talking more about how you'd fallen HL&S for the Russian collusion story, the Trump as a warmonger meme, Trump destroying the economy meme, Trump being wrong on Warren's heritage meme, Trump loosing the trade war moronosity etc etc"

Warren never claimed she was Indian just that she had Indian heritage which her tests proved. Stop flogging this, the horse is dead.

Trump was not found innocent of collusion but rather;

“The president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed,” Mueller told the House judiciary committee, adding that Trump could theoretically be indicted after he leaves office.

“We did not address ‘collusion,’ which is not a legal term,” Mueller added. “Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not.”

And where on earth did I say he was losing the trade war or destroying the economy?

Mate you are so full of it you must be ready to burst. Stop making this stuff up. I know it is just another smoke screen you put up when you are in trouble but it really is getting boring.

Indy, where is the evidence that 7.5% of your tax was for your future pension? Where was it invested, You figures are imaginary, like me you invested in compulsory supa, and nothing more, I invested a lot more for my retirement than you did. Your tax was used for all that government spend money on at that time. I have paid as much, probably more, income tax over 50 years than you have. I should have as much right to an aged welfare payment as you do.

Steeleredux,
If you don't know about the 7.5% payment then you can't be the age you claim you are !
Re Superannuation. We paid into Super unlike you who salary sacrificed the contributions & or wrote it off via NG.
So, in actual fact YOU ARE the welfare jockey here, not us Pensioners !

Btw. anyone still have a payslip from the '70's ?

target for right wing governments
SteeleRedux,
Umm 'err, it was Whitlam's useless outfit that first started hiding the Pension fund but the Conservatives didn't make any effort either to reinstate it !

Indy, I never used NG to purchase property, live in it, pay the mortgage, move out, purchase second property, use income from rent to help pay new mortgage. If we lose our rent income, our income will fall to around $300/week, most come from the wife's NZ supa payment of $900/mth. Will have to draw cash from our liquid investments. Sold up our residence In Sydney, moved to Brisbane, purchased house in Brisbane. I would say you, if single allowed $250K in bank, plus about $170/ftn in income, assets of over $2 million. You get rates, power, water, public transport, reductions, pharmaceutical @ $5.60, not $40 each. Come off it Indy, aged welfare, many are on a very good wicket.

This years payment to the aged of well over $20 billion, will mostly come from government borrowings, not from an imaginary pile of cash you invented to justify the taxpayer largesse that you receive.

Dear individual,

You charged; "So, in actual fact YOU ARE the welfare jockey here, not us Pensioners !"

You are as bad as mhaze.

Mate I have worked for myself for most of my life and literally have less than $1,000 in super. Our rentals are all positively geared and they have been that way since we purchased them.

Anyone who claims anything you have to continually write losses off on is a sound investment is kidding themselves. Rather it is a speculation. Happy to be judged a parasitic class by virtue of the fact we are landlords but I am most certainly not a welfare jockey.

If circumstances were to radically change and I end up receiving some form of government payment then so be it. I am most certainly not going to judge people for doing so because there but for the grace of god so to speak.

SR,

"Warren never claimed she was Indian"

Which makes it hard to understand why she apologised to the Cherokee nation for falsely claiming she was a Cherokee. You are just incorrigible SR, simply incapable of admitting error irrespective of how obvious it is.

Paul,

"we have been dragged into US wars of aggression in Asia"

Well I'm not sure which Asian wars you refer to but for most of them we were as much the dragger as the draggee.

Indi,

"They took our money and used it elsewhere. They forgot (oh yes, they knew) that it was OUR money they were taking."

There was never a pension fund. There was never any 'investment' of taxes to cover a pension. I don't know where you get these notions.
A portion of taxes was never set aside by governments of any colour to cover your retirement. And the reason is that people like you and those of that generation didn't want that to happen. They wanted (and still want) governments to spend ALL the taxes now. If we wanted governments to set aside funds for the future we would have voted for such governments. But we never did. Not only didn't we want governments to set aside funds, not only did we want governments to spend ALL taxes on us now, we wanted governments to borrow more and spend that on us too.

In the words of Peter Walsh, once described as the last true socialist to be elected, "We [the government] spent everything we got. Then we went and borrowed another 5% and spent that too." He fought valiantly as finance minister to stop that, but alas, failed. Why? Because people of our generation didn't want to save for the future. And we didn't want the government to save for the future either.

Dar mhaze,

Do we really have to go over this again?

Warren apologised for being goaded by your buffoon of a president into doing a DNA test.

“The Cherokee Nation and other Native American activists criticized her for reducing their identity to a DNA test”

“Senator Warren has reached out to us and has apologized to the tribe," Julie Hubbard, the executive director of Cherokee Nation Communications, said in a statement to NBC News. "We are encouraged by this dialogue and understanding that being a Cherokee Nation tribal citizen is rooted in centuries of culture and laws not through DNA tests. We are encouraged by her action and hope that the slurs and mockery of tribal citizens and Indian history and heritage will now come to an end."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-cherokee-nation-over-dna-test-flap-n965921

Bloody hell you really do have to stop inflating and lying about these things. It not only make you look like a turkey but to be willfully deceptive on a constant basis must be very wearying.

As to laying into individual that is bonkers too.

The Future Fund was set up to pay for the retirement benefits of a certain sector of Australians. "The fund began with $60 billion and the goal of meeting the retirement benefits of public servants and Defence personnel by 2020." So governments can and do exactly that.

The Superannuation system was also forced saving into retirement funds it was just that these were left to be preyed upon by a parasitic private sector. There are some very rich people who have benefited enormously.

It would have been far more efficient and equitable to have a future fund serving all Australians, but this never happened.

SR,

"Do we really have to go over this again?"

Well probably not but its just such darn fun watching your continued twisting and turning to avoid admitting error.

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren said Tuesday that she was sorry that she identified herself as a Native American for almost two decades, ..."

As to indi, he wasn't talking about the Future Fund but about some fictitious arrangement where 7.5% of taxes were supposedly set aside for pensions. No such thing existed.

It didn't exist because our generation demanded that government spend 105% of all taxes collected in the present rather than set it aside to cover future pension commitments.

Hi Steele, I have given Indy a bit of stick for sometime about the fact he receives welfare in the form of an Aged Pension. More because he attacks other Australians who receive welfare benefits like Newstart, which is much less than his pension. To justify himself he invented this business that he does not receive welfare, but some imaginary appropriated pension. This appropriated pension idea was an ideal of 50 years ago that was unfortunately never met. Politicians much preferred to give voter friendly tax cuts, or instant expenditure on vote winning niceties, while promising debt free budgets.
You said; "The (national) Superannuation system was also forced saving into retirement funds it was just that these were left to be preyed upon by a parasitic private sector. There are some very rich people who have benefited enormously." I could not agree more.

I do not oppose the pension as such, in fact NZ has a much fair system of national superannuation for all. Its lower than the Aussie pension, because its universal.

....you have to continually write losses off
SteeleRedux,
No-one said it should be done so but too many do. As a matter of fact, many plan to run at a loss deliberately because of NG.
I know many such 'self-funded' retirees who salary sacrificed & wrote off anything that could be under this insidious Tax system. In effect they paid sfa Tax in comparison to the average blue collar wage earner.
I just hope that this virus situation is eventually bringing us closer towards a flat Tax & also brings some sanity re profiteering !

.... he attacks other Australians who receive welfare benefits like Newstart,
Paul1405,
I said no such thing ! Stop fabricating sentences ! I have said on occasions that there are too many who don't deserve equal payments because they plainly do not actually want to work !
Even you say that in your opinion old age pensioners should not get Welfare & I agree & we actually don't. We get a Pension which we contributed to all our working live, on top of which we paid taxes which over the years amount to more than what self-funded retirees contribute.
Also, there are hardly any self-funded blue collar wage earners, only salary earners can afford to put aside the extra which is beefed up by Govt contribution !
As I said, you're more than likely the Welfare jockey, not us !

Dear mhaze,

I asked “Do we really have to go over this again?” because you were flogged on this previously and now you are back for more. Further I find your predilection for S&M a little disturbing.

Note how in my post I actually in part quoted directly from the person. You have not. Give me a direct quote from Warren saying “sorry that she identified herself as a Native American for almost two decades”.

As for taxes you said quite plainly “A portion of taxes was never set aside by governments of any colour to cover your retirement.” unless of course if you were a public servant or in the defense forces where they clearly were.

See mate these blanket statements of yours are idiotic. Please try and do better.