mhaze,

You clearly don't know much about writing and introducing topics. The death of one of the most successful and extremely sophisticated civilisations of its time is compared with a modern, successful and sophisticated civilisation, which also thinks that it is the ant's pants and indestructible - just as the Roman Empire thought it was. What has happened historically can, and does, recur. I contend that, if we don't smarten up - stop kidding ourselves that everything is wonderful, and that we can just keep doing what we are doing - then we will go down, just like Rome and other ancient civilisations who were once at the top of their game: a position we are already losing.

Merely saying that the West is stuffed because of this and that is less convincing than using examples of what has happened in the past to similar civilisations (as opposed to the savages improved by Rome, Greece etc.)

You think that the list (not my list BTW) of Roman failings is "rubbish" - without saying why. You then presume know more than I do - again, without saying why. You merely make unfounded assertions.

In your second post, you accuse me of using " … the Roman list to give your's a veneer of scholarship and are now pissed off that that veneer is very transparent".

I'm not "pissed off", and your choice of language is hardly "scholarly". And, I don't see how your mere disagreement has revealed any transparency. I accept that you disagree with me, but nothing you have said proves me wrong. Perhaps you would like to try again, and demonstrate the scholarship you accuse me of not having. As things stand, you have just expressed opinions, with which I obviously disagree. I stand by my original post 100 percent

ttbn,
If it's not your list, why are you still falling to provide any attribution?

As for why it's rubbish or fraudulent, take another look at it:
>Open Borders
My previous point stands despite my Danish error.

>Corrupt Politicians
Politicians or officials? The emperors had long since taken away most of the control of the former.

>Loss Of Common Language
I presume you mean Greek? How much did its use decline, and what replaced it?

>The Welfare State
Bread and circuses do not a welfare state make!

>Violent Entertainment
Something common throughout the reign of the emperors - could something lasting that long really be responsible for the fall?

>Decline Of Morality
It's in the 210, but is it credible? Didn't Christianity improve the Roman Empire's morality in its later years?

>Decline In Fertility Rate
This one's credible.

>Rise In Pedophilia
Any evidence of a rise in late Roman times?

>Unchecked Debauchery
There'd always been debauchery. To some extent it was checked by Christianity.

Do I need to go on? And if so, can you tell me what outsourcing your list refers to?

We are a freak show.
ttbn,
Yes and, a lot & I mean a lot of people are scurrying to buy tickets ! The fact that some here are disputing your list is proof that you're right !

individual,

Perhaps we should include the Helpline in posts for the benefit of the handful of people who are upset by anything that is not socialist muck or in line with their own thinking; those with fragile egos, and those so bound up in themselves who would benefit from a dose of liver salts or a good laxative?

If you want a cohesive society all must agree on the rules. In Australia today we have a least three systems of justice, though only one claims to be official.

There is a strong educational input from those that want total social control of everyone, taking us back to a type of feudalism, where we all work for the State, as virtual slaves to the overlords. Where all property is owned by the State. The State provides us with all our needs.

Defectors, and the unwanted put to death as they do not contribute to the State. A large proportion of the young are more and more wanting to be employed by the State and looked after by the State. Poll taken in America of 18 and under 39 year old in America dream of a socialist State, though they do not understand it is communism.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/10/america-socialism-capitalism-poll-axios

http://www.axios.com/exclusive-poll-young-americans-embracing-socialism-b051907a-87a8-4f61-9e6e-0db75f7edc4a.html

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/socialism-booming-popularity-among-young-people-survey-finds/11655582

Josephus,
>Poll taken in America of 18 and under 39 year old in America dream of a socialist State,
>though they do not understand it is communism.
Have you considered the possibility that they understand it ISN'T communism?
Can you name even one bad aspect of communism that no socialist state could do without?