Today's papers show increasing interest in zero alcohol levels for motorists and bike riders; the level for truck drivers is already 0.002 and many think that this should be the limit for all drivers.

But would this lessen the road toll?

It sure would. Another stupidity is not banning people that are serial speeding offenders. Some should never be behind the wheel ever again. Until that happens there will be unnecessary deaths and injuries.

I won't go along with banning people who are caught speeding, speed is OK especially where the majority are caught.

A visible police presence will stop speeding, so to increase revenue speed traps are set but if the speeding is a danger then setting traps instead of stopping the speeding is an admission that speeding in such a place is safe.

"But would this lessen the road toll?"

Nup - there's not even any evidence that reducing the level from .08 to .05 had any affect on the road toll.

Heh, but it'll be good for revenue raising, and that's really what its all about anyway.

Some drivers flout the 0.05 limit now. They would flout zero as well. We need serious penalties - mandatory jail. There is no point in taking licences away; they will drive without them, still pissed. The law, as in most areas, is a joke.

"...there's not even any evidence that reducing the level from .08 to .05 had any affect on the road toll."

"The Centre for Road Safety Executive Director Bernard Carlon says Australia reached this level gradually introducing 0.08 alcohol tolerance at first. That was in 1980 and the public reaction to the measures seemed to find them too stringent.[subsequently dropped to .05]

But 35 years on, the drink driving death toll dropped from 44 per cent to 30 per cent nationally with some cities even below 20 per cent."
http://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/too-high-30-of-fatal-crashes-in-australia-are-due-to-drink-driving

I don't drink, so this does not effect me personally, but in my experience those who do regularly, are perfectly safe after a beer or two. Two is, I gather enough to put some over the limit, so 05 is probably going too far.

Why is there always some clown trying to make a name for them selves by attacking the lives of others. Perhaps this gentleman is feeling ignored, so has to burst into print, to gain the attention he desires.

It's always the stick - why not a carrot?

How about, if you have 0 alcohol, you may drive 10km/h faster?
If you are an experienced driver of over 5 years without incident, drive an ordinary car (as opposed to a truck or a bus, etc.) and commit in advance to not drive your car with any alcohol, then you should get 20 km/h more in dry weather conditions.

Speeding is dangerous, but driving faster than the formal speed signs is not speeding because the signs are irrational.

I don't drink alcohol myself, but I think that if zero-alcohol is introduced, the road toll will actually increase. Why? Because grandma will tell grandpa: "I know that you are very tired and you cannot see well at night, but this time darling you will have to drive us home because I had a little glass".

A little more indication that lowering the permitted alcohol level works,

See the graph near the top of page 1.
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/alcoholdrugs/drinkdriving/index.html

On speed limits,
as the Gwydir Highway (50 zone) leaves Glen Innes there is a section almost devoid of buildings, nothing on the left of the road but a factory set well back on the right, then a house and the 100 sign then two more houses, whose occupants are presumably not as important as their neighbours in the first house.
Other streets that are devoid of houses in parts are in 50 zones.

By contrast, Inverell has one residential street with a limit of 70 and a limit of 60 on the road boarded by the hospital and the high school, with, incidentally, a car concealing dip with the broken centre line leading the unwary into a trap.

The residential street with the 70 limit allows traffic, including semi-trailers travelling to the north-west of the town to bypass the town centre so is quite popular and for at least the last five years has had no centre lines at all, even though there are three blind curves.
So much for road safety.

Any alcohol has an immediate effect on your senses; people who say that they can 'hold' their drink really cannot. But you can't tell drinkers anything. Only totally sober people can tell how drinkers qickly change when they've had 'only' one or two. Australia, as a country, has a serious problem with the stuff.

The road safety junkies tell us that speed kills, but it doesn't in the real world.

A couple of years ago I was talking to a Sargent of police in Canungra. Gold coast side of the army base there is a small range, with a typically twisty bit of road over it.

The speed limit through there had been 100Km/H for years. Occasionally someone, often Gold Coast Tourists would run off this road into the bush. The Police Sargent opined it was usually people driving slowly, rubber necking at the views, as most crashes were slow speed.

The road planners in their wisdom reduced the speed limit to 80K on this stretch "to improve safety" of course. The Sargent found the number of off road events increased considerably.

To combat this rash of crashes our idiot planners reduced the speed again to 70 this time. Yep you guessed it, that Sargent found again the off road events increased again, mostly of visiting tourists. He surmised that at the slower limit the tourists felt safer to look around, rather than at the road, causing the off road events.

They made a submission to bring the limit back up, but the planners think they know best, & the slow limit remains even after the road was widened, & overtaking lanes built on either slope.

Yep the road safety group like enforcing their will, even when their systems are proven wrong.

I believe I am acutely qualified to answer this one.
My credentials are;
I've been driving, off road, farm, etc, since I was four, had to have a few mods done to the controls.
I am now 69.
I still hold every driving license available to me and have done so from the day I was eligible to apply for them.
I still hold a heavy, multiple trailer endorsement. (road trains)
I still hold a "for hire or reward" license. (I can drive taxi's or coaches, any size)
I had my own planes, so I had a pilots license. (let it go because I could not be bothered to do the minimum hours per year as laid down by the d!ckheads who can't fly)
I got my license when I turned 17 as was the law of the day.
I have had my license for 52 years, and here's the best bit; without incidents, crashes, smashes or clashes.
I've never been pinged for speeding or other traffic violation.
I got pinged once for not wearing my seat-belt according to the law, even though I explained I had not long been out of a three month hospital stint for open heart surgery.
He may as well have said go and get f&(ked for what good my explanation did.
I was wearing it, but under arm so as to not put pressure on my chest because it was still in repair where they had cut me open through or around the sternum.
Anyway, this country was settled with liquor and 200 years on, nothings changed.
I believe that Aussies are stubborn, arrogant and immature, and as some have explained, no end of license removal or suspension is going to stop these morons.
So the answer is, let them drink and let the dice fall where they may.
The law is a dishonest scum-bag disgraceful lot, with money as their agenda.
They do NOT care about people, because if they did we would see a total ban on alcohol, but it's too lucrative to even think about removing the current fines system.

"But would this lessen the road toll?"
mHaze,
No, it wouldn't but a National Service would ensure a shift to a better mentality ! We can't expect people to be better than they are if they have no guidelines to live by ! How can we expect people to behave better for even their own good when their indoctrination mentality doesn't allow them to think in a considerate manner ?
A NS would be a kind of antibiotic for the mind that is infected with pseudo-intellectual indoctrination which has now reached endemic levels that puts the Corona virus to shame !
Speeding, hooning & drink-driving are a direct result of extremely poor mentality brought on by poor education.

Speed limits are set to give everybody a fair go. How many times are you held up at intersections because some one is definitely over the speed limit. You have to recalculate someones speed every time you want to cut in or join the traffic.
Over limit driving is pure ignorance to other motorists.
One at a time in a roundabout.
Vehicles should come standard with black box recorders so police can plug in and download your driving habits.
People that pass another vehicle sitting on the speed limit is a non compliant driver. For some reason they can not stand being second in line. Absolute piggery.

The present minimum for truck drivers is 0.02 not 0.002 whilst for normal drivers it is 0.05%

One of the reasons for not going lower is that any reading below 0.02 is unreliable and a small portion of the population can produce readings close to 0.02 with no alcohol consumption.

Issy, I find it hard to believe the stats on your link.
I notice that the youth of today are more into shots, spirits and wine, than those of previous generations.
I can only wonder that if the stats are even close to the truth, if more youngen's are choosing to Uber or are just choosing not to get a license in the first place.
I suppose some might say, we don't care how it happens whether they have a license or not, as long as there are less drunk drivers on the road.
Well that's a good thought but it does not tell the truth about the number of people relative to who is drinking and driving.
It just tells us that there is a drop in drunk drivers but not what caused it.
In other words, if everyone stopped driving, we would get zero road fatalities, and zero drunk driving, zero speeding tickets, running red lights, and the list goes on.
I'm sorry but with every human endeavor there has always been a two way street.
Where there is a benefit, there is always a risk.
Unfortunately we report the results of the risks but never the benefits, which become part of our day-to-day lives, and we become complacent.
It's just like investing money.
You invest in the knowledge that you are going to gain from it, but no-one highlights the fact that you have just entered into a risk.
So while the investment is making money, you are happy, but when it turns sour, you too become sour at the negative outcome.
This is just another facet of life, as is driving.
You get the good and along with it comes the risk of all the bad things, like death.

"But would this lessen the road toll?"

Yeah probably, but you've got to see the bigger picture.

Driverless Cars.

- They'll argue that with driverless cars there's no need for anyone to be operating a motor vehicle whilst under the influence.

The limit will become ZERO, give it time.

Harsher penalties. Our society is far too lenient with drunks. Could that be because the people who deal out penalties are piss artists themselves? I read an article a couple of days about someone trying to quit the addiction in a society "obsessed with alcohol". Initially I thought that obsession was a bit much, but perhaps it is the truth.

"obsessed with alcohol"
ttbn,
That is as close to the mark as you can get and, throw in drugs as well !
Bring on a National Service !

Two people slaughtered by a drunken driver (12 schooners) on Valentine's Day night near Pt. Augusta. Drove off in high dudgeon when his own wife refused to get in the car with him. One of his supporters at court today described him a a 'good man's. Pig's arse!

ttbn, do you know what his sentence was?

ALTRAV,

It only happened on Friday, so the court appearance was only a hearing. Probably a committal hearing? He handed himself into the police after the event, so he is likely to plead guilty? Immediate discount for that? There are all sorts of fancy pleas these days when somebody is killed with a motor vehicle, so who knows what he will get. A long time in jail is what he should get.

These links give a bit of info regarding court proceedings for manslaughter and dangerous driving causing death in SA.

http://www.caldicottlawyers.com.au/criminal-offences/assault-violence/manslaughter
http://www.caldicottlawyers.com.au/criminal-offences/driving-offences/dangerous-driving-causing-death

ttbn - "There are all sorts of fancy pleas these days when somebody is killed with a motor vehicle, so who knows what he will get."

- You're right about that;
This is a quote from that second link:

"In previous cases, the solicitors at Caldicott Lawyers have negotiated with prosecutors to have the charge of causing death by dangerous driving reduced to lesser charges, which did not result in imprisonment or driver’s licence disqualification."

Hmmm....

There is little doubt in the public's mind that both excessive speed and drugs/alcohol are contributing factors to the road toll. There is ample research evidence to support those facts. As a progressive society we should always be looking at ways to improve where we can.

Recently in Sydney an horrific accident left four children dead, and a driver charged with 20 offences, including high range drink driving.

"In the wake of the tragedy caused by an alleged drink driver, the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons (RACS) is leading the call to reduce the legal blood-alcohol limit to zero."

The call for zero alcohol is coming from a much respected body in the Australian College of Surgeons. The overseas evidence needs to be looked at before a rational answer can be found. Again it comes down to a balance between peoples pleasure and their responsibility to the community at large.

Driving over the limit is murder weather it be speeding or alcohol or drugs. What else can it be.

I don't understand this fixation or obsession with drinking of ANY alcohol.
I don't drink, or smoke.
From childhood, I became disgusted with the taste of ALL the alcoholic drinks, ALL!
I don't understand people at all.
The taste of spirits, for example, is the same as petrol, in a word;
DISGUSTING!
And so it is the same for ALL alcoholic drinks.
I eat and drink for taste.
My go to beverage is Coke ZERO.
I'm not a sweet tooth and trained myself off sugar quite some many years ago, so at least I can enjoy a TASTY drink without the risk of too much sugar intake.
But it does not change the fact that the rest of society has a real identity crisis on it's hands.
Is it some kind of MACHO thing that today even the maggots must not be outdone by the morons and prove to their moron companions that they too are as good as any man in being able to get so drunk as to pass out and/or perform acts of debauchery and filth, because they are as good as any man.
Is that what drinking is all about?
Because, for the life of me, I cannot figure out what this absolute fixation and need for drinking alcohol is all about.
I have witnessed socially higher standing people, turn into utter drivelling, non-sensicle, blithering, idiots after getting drunk.
Obviously, I would condone the lowering of the drink/driving level to ZERO, if I had my way.
You see, it turns out that people are their own worst enemy, and are in fact no different than children.
Politicians in their haste to get their filthy hands on the keys to our nations piggy banks will say and offer the people anything they want to facilitate them being elected.
Instead of saying things which are meant to discipline and direct the people.
They let the people (children) have what they want.
Let them run amok, and this is where you end up.
So people, what's it going to be, remove alcohol and live, or keep drinking and die.

It's not a fixation, ALTRAV; it's an addiction. Alcohol is the most dangerous, addictive drug, because it is legal and socially acceptable, unlike the illegal drugs. Only 20% of Australians are not in its grip. I've read that, if booze was only discovered today, it would be banned because of its effect on mind and body: effects clearly obvious to us.

There's a commercial on TV at the moment, demonstrating how long ice remains in the body. The same applies to people who drink daily.

There's money in it for avaricious governments of course. 25% of the cost of a pint is tax. Wine is a big export earner. Vineyards everywhere, but our hypocrites poison or burn poppy fields in Afghanistan.

Drinking is painted as being glamourous. But there's nothing much attractive about young women lying on footpaths, displaying their knickers of a Saturday night in Hindley Street, or blocking the traffic while they have a punch up and attack police in the roadway. Alcohol is now very much an equal opportunity to make an animal of yourself.

And, while it is now necessary to check drivers for hard drugs, drinkers are still the main killers and menaces on the roads.

ttbn, can't agree more.
I take the reasoning that people are immature and never really grow up, which plays directly into the hands of all those who profit at the people's expense, not just financial expense but life itself.
The unfortunate truth is that if the govt suddenly grew some stones and a backbone, and outlawed ALL forms of drugs and really policed it, the same people who cry foul when their precious little Johnny or princesses get killed, would be the ones crying foul of being robbed of their freedom of choice and any other BS they can dream up that would stop the govt from outlawing the crap in the first place.
So you know what, apart from the innocent victims who are the unwilling victims of these mongrels, I say let em drink and drug themselves to death, and slowly we hit people where it hurts.
The loss of a loved one.
Eventually even the biggest morons of the public MUST come around, possibly through extended family pressure.
But I won't hold my breath as Aussies have proven to be amongst the most ignorant, entitled, arrogant bunch of fools with the lowest EQ's and IQ's of all the criteria and factors that make up a human being.

ALTRAV,

What about prohibition? The half-informed smugly say that it failed in America. Now, that might just mean that it failed to the extent hard drug prohibition has failed, which doesn't mean it is useless.

The real reason prohibition in America was repealed was because, you guessed it, the government had difficulty coping without the tax revenue.

difficulty coping without the tax revenue.
ttbn,
Considering the inefficiency & damages caused by drinking, I can imagine that only a Tax could enable Govt to combat the situation !

My sons gave me a bottle of Glenfiddich 21 Year Old Gran Reserva Scotch Whisky (700mL Per Bottle), that was three years ago (cost today is $269.99).

It's great and I still have half the bottle left, only have a dram on special occasions.

Had they got a bottle of Glenfiddich 30 Year Old Speyside Single Malt Scotch Whisky (40% 700mL) at $999.99, I doubt that I'd have opened it yet.

Not the stuff to get pissed on.

Issy, don't berate me but, as I have NO discernible understanding or taste for all things alcoholic, can you please describe to me, as one who likes and enjoys drinking something, which is to me, akin to drinking petrol, which as it turns out even though I doubt it is in the same family, I have to wonder, it also being a spirit, albeit a "motor spirit".
I have never ventured to ask anyone, as I imagined them getting upset at the notion that someone would question such a commonplace and international alleged pleasure.
For the life of me I have NEVER been able to come to terms with why anyone would consume such a vial and aggressive tasting liquid

ALTRAV,

No offence taken; liking whisky might be in the genes!

I have always liked the taste of the better Irish and Scot's whiskies but I was taught to savour them not to simply drink them and guzzling whisky for the sake of getting drunk is anathema to me, as is, on a lesser scale, adding ice or water.

I normally never drink alcoholic beverages, as I have a Heavy Vehicle licence again and the .02 limit, in practice, applies when driving a car the which I do most days.

Issy, we have something in common, enjoying a good Scotch, I knew there was something I liked about you. My son also gives me a bottle of the good stuff each Xmas. Knowing their cost of living I tell him not to get too extravagant. The recent one, I said give us a bottle of Johnny Walker Double Black to try. A mate called in one Saturday night and I was enjoying a nip or three, and that was that.

ALTRAV, I don't know why my wife will eat "Rotten Corn" it smells, and literally looks like vomit, and I'm not joking, maze soaked in the creek or river for 6 months, and attacked by some strange bacteria. Other odd ball foods include heavily salted Mutton Bird and Kina (sea urchin). Mutton Bird I can stomach, but kina is a bit much. Then again I love oysters, which are not everyone's favourite.

Issy, Paul, fair enough, I still don't get it, but I'll just put it down to a very isolated and insulated youth where I did not frequent the normal haunts and rituals of the day, namely, pubs and clubs.
Tried them, didn't like them.
Instead I chose to spend evenings and weekends, locked away in an engineering workshop, so I could spend my time to create, build, design all things vehicular in the auto design/engineering field which put me in good stead as a life-long career.
Maybe if I'd kept going I might have taken to drinking and have a better understanding of what it is that makes alcohol, (and cigarettes, basically drugs) so appealing to 97% of the world's population.
Oh well, maybe in my next life.

I feel sorry for you ALTRAV.
Getting wasted is fun. Sure the stuff tastes like crap but thats not why we drink it.
Go on son have a go and you will realise why.
In moderation of course. :)
And dont drink and drive!

mikk, tried it decades ago, no thanks, I'll pass, but you carry on by all means as it appears you have found a reason to drink in spite of the taste.