To what lengths will a politician go to "pork barrel" before an election to help his, or in this case her, side of politics to score a victory. The Federal Auditor-General's report into the $100 million worth of sports grants awarded by the Federal Governments then Sports Minister Bridget McKenzie just prior to the last election, identified that the grants by the minister were specifically targeted at marginal Coalition seats, and seats the Coalition hoped to win.

According to former NSW Auditor-General Tony Harris, a Federal Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) would be the ideal body to get to the bottom of the McKenzie sports grants scandal. Mr Harris, said the Government had resisted creating a strong independent watchdog. In his opinion if the sports grants case had came across his desk during his seven year tenure as NSW's chief accountability officer he would have referred it for investigation to the NSW ICAC.

Why is the Government so opposed to a Federal ICAC?

why not have Nancy Pelosi bring her freak show to Australia and run ICAC in conjunction with the abc.

The main fuss seems to be whether or not McKenzie had constitutional power to make sports grants, not whether she was 'pork barreling', and certainly not because she is a member of the Coalition, which is the real reason the jackals are out to get her.

If an ICAC is so important to the Left, why didn't Rudd/Gillard/Rudd create one?

Corrupt politicians can be dealt with by the voters; they are also subject to the same laws as the rest of us. And, the duties of the NSW ICAC cover "public officials" - unelected people beyond the control of voters.

The three most corrupt political leaders in my lifetimes, leaders who were defiantly on the take, but never felt the wrath of the voters, not necessarily in order were; JOH BJELKE-PETTERSEN, ROBIN ASKIN and HENRY BOLTE. All conservative, all knighted by the Queen of England all crooks of the highest order, no ICAC to investigate those blokes.

ttbn you ask about RUDD and GILLARD on the Labor side of politics, who knows, when you're in government you are on a hiding to nothing with an independent ICAC with extensive snooping powers.

"McKenzie had constitutional power", not the only question, why the bias in favour of marginal and winnable electorates, as stated by the Auditor-General. Clearly a case of taxpayers funds being used for political purposes, that constitutes $100 million worth of corruption.

Hi Paul1405,

I don't support winning by cheating.
I think she should be held accountable.

Its people like runner, who are the easiest fooled by corrupt politicians. They swallow the "nothing to see here line" and don't think twice about it. The situation at the moment with Canberra is predicable, the opposition makes an allegation, the government defends the accused, and hope it all blows over. The Senate can launch an inquiry which is tainted as being party political.

runner, you would be the ideal type for 'Old Joe', swallowing his BS and bluster hook, line and sinker. I'm sure Hasbeen and a few others on the forum were totally fooled by corrupt conservative politicians.

BTW, I'm not defending Labor, in government they can be just as corrupt as the other side.

Greedy constituents outnumber greedy politicians by millions !

Of course there should be a federal ICAC to oversee the conduct of politicians and bureaucrats and others, especially the court officers whom most people would have very little respect for.

Maybe we could have it investigate Gladys Liu's affiliation with the Chinese Communist Party.

The silly thing is, pouring money into shaky electorates doesn't always work. A truckload of money put into Warringah was no use to Tony Abbott, for instance.

I think, though, that we would all agree that politicians should be prevented from treating our money as if it is their money. Further, sporting and other self-interested groups should be raising their own money from their own area. Government (taxpayer) grants should only be used for things like the current fire disaster.

If this is true, it throws a whole different light on the matter: Sky News claims that McKenzie bunged 36 grand to her own gun club - and didn't declare it.

As head of the government, Scott Morrison can stand down McKenzie while the matter is investigated, and sack her from her portfolio if she has done anything wrong. The National Party leader is also able to take action against her if he thinks she has brought embarrassment down on her party.

No need for an ICAC.

ttbn,

"Further, sporting and other self-interested groups should be raising their own money from their own area."

Except for gun clubs who are required by law to have their members attend the range, therefore Government should and do, fund the ranges.

Is Mise,

The attendance requirement is a condition of licencing. It does not mean gun clubs should be getting taxpayers' money. Besides, the issue here is a politician handing our your money and mine to a club OF WHICH SHE IS A MEMBER, on the sly.

In all of the shooting clubs I have been in, we members worked hard to establish and maintain. That, of course, was before all the gimme, gimme nonsense that is around today, and before the government stuck its nose into everything and tried to buy votes.

Paul I learnt my lesson with old Joe.

I wanted the old bugger gone, just like so many, mostly lefties & greenies, but many Libs too.

I thought the gerrymander was disgusting, but did realise it was put in place by Labor, when farm labour was a very high part of country electorates. It served Labor well for years. They only started screaming when machinery replaced labourers, & their gerrymander then worked against them.

When terry White led the Libs out of coalition, I was cheering, & pretty disappointed that old Joe held on.

Then the inevitable, & Labor got in. That is when we found out what bad crony government was like. How wasteful it could be, & just how much a lefty government could spend of our money paying off their donors. We also got a pretty good example of just how viscous they are. A good foretaste of Democrat justice in the US.

Suddenly we were much more appreciative of the great job Joe did foe Queensland.

Incidentally, just one thing, Joe was a wealthy man when he entered parliament. He was a leader for a lot longer than the lefts love Bob Hawk who was not rich when he got the top job. Isn't it interesting Joe was no where near as rich as Hawk when both retired from parliament?

Firstly, a Federal ICAC is needed regardless of whether it's needed for this issue.

Secondly, he really worrying thing is the lack of clear rules.

In Sports Rorts 1, Ros Kelly had to resign because she failed to follow the proper procedure and hence couldn't prove that the funding decisions weren't just porkbarreling. Now a quarter century later in Sports Rorts 2, there's much better documentation so we know for certain it's porkbarrelling, but now minister McKenzie claims there's nothing wrong with that, and the government appears to be backing her.

Why have standards slipped so much?

Perhaps because Ros Kelly was a school teacher playing at government, with a giant white board, & no idea.

I don't know if the lady is any better, being another lady, probably not, but she is following procedures, & is no where near as rotten as lefties with our money.

I'm always amused that those who most favour big government that gets involved in all aspects of our life are the one's most shocked when big government acts like big government.

If government gathers funds to be redistributed as they or their supporters see fit, its inevitable that the redistribution process will be either actually corrupt or appear (to those who missed out on the largess) to be corrupt.

Don't want this to happen? Get big government out of the sugar-daddy business.

I don't get it. The right on here continually bang on about corrupt politicians and over reach by government but when it comes to supporting a body specifically designed to assist in keeping them check you won't have a bar of it.

The only possible conclusion is that you think it will impact your side of politics rather than the other. Well you are probably right. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have one.

Oh Paul, 14.05 klms from Nimbin

You are so righteously unbiased.

I met a young chick from Nimbin, ( she said she was), deep in our local woods a couple of days back.
She was bare- footed, hugging trees and asking the spirits for direction.

I said, if you follow your dog very carefully, the spirits are guiding it, and it will lead you to a hammock down by the lake. Be very attentive to every step your dog takes, and you will find it.

Sure enough, on my return to the hammock next day, all ropes were tied-off with girly bows.

Trust the Nimbin Spirits...sure can!

Dan

what happened to the mantra 'believe all women'?

"but when it comes to supporting a body specifically designed to assist in keeping them check you won't have a bar of it."

The solution to big government isn't bigger government. If you want to stop corrupt in government grants, the best way isn't to set another layer of corruptible government to monitor the monitors, but to stop the grants.

mhaze, it might help you to understand f you realise that the people who favour big government generally DON'T want the government getting involved in all aspects of our life.

We want government to be capable.
We want government to be rules based, including rules that prevent it from becoming too intrusive.
We want government to be transparent. We know there are times when security prevents that, but transparency should be the default not the exception.

Hmmm, no electorate will be able to get any grants.
No club will want a politician as a member as it would rule them out
from grants.

Ahh Does "Whatever it Takes" come to mind ?

It was the NSW ICAC model that turned into a Star Chamber of the worse kind.

I do not think the 100 so members of the Country Gun Club would vote Labor or Greens, maybe Fishers and Shooters. To claim that it changed the vote in that electorate is far fetched. Did they need the toilet block? Compare it with other claims that missed out. I'm involved in a charity and we look for grants, and I can tell you, we think our claim is important, but in many cases we miss out. We earn more money from Bunnings BBQ than from Federal grants.

ttbn,

"The attendance requirement is a condition of licencing. It does not mean gun clubs should be getting taxpayers' money. Besides, the issue here is a politician handing our your money and mine to a club OF WHICH SHE IS A MEMBER, on the sly"

And a condition of licencing is that one attends a range, compliance with the law does not mean that those affected by the law should have to provide the public infrastructure required to comply with the law.

Was she a member of the gun club on the sly?
Doesn't appear so.

Is Mise,

I would say Mckenzies' goose is well and truly cooked!

There's only one thing left for her to do: BEAM UP ME SCOTTY!

Ms Mckenzie don't miss out when it comes to picking up largesse from kindly benefactors.

4 doz bottles of wine, alcohol, clothing, sporting equipment, tickets to every major spots event in Aussie and then some, seems she loves to be in corporate marques at the races, free air flights, upgrades from business to first class on OS trips, free accommodation etc etc.

Her Register of Senators Interests is extensive, but it doesn't mention her gunnie club membership. The very club she gave $36,000 of taxpayer money to.

Apply Issy logic;

In NSW you are required by law to obtain a 'pink slip' to register your car on the road. Should not the government meet the cost of the 'pink slip'? Afterall they are the ones requiring it!

What it is with gunnie clubs, this "grants" nonsense is an underhanded way for them to channel taxpayer money to sympathetic political parties like Shooters, Nationals, Katter etc. These so called clubs are already well financed by overseas interests, cash coming from the NRA of North America through the Australian chapter the SSAA. All with the objective of watering down gun control laws here. Given the gunnies way we could well see another Port Arthur massacre.

I reckon Albinese is right when he said that McKenzie stinks like a bag of prawn heads left outside on a stinking hot day.

The public need a federal ICAC to protect them from people like McKenzie, Obeid, Bjelke-Petersen ..................... and the list just goes on and on.

The only ones to benefit from NOT having an ICAC are the politicians who do not have the public's interest at heart.

Porky,

" These so called clubs are already well financed by overseas interests, cash coming from the NRA of North America through the Australian chapter the SSAA."

Ther you go again telling porkies, where, oh! where is the evidence for your ridiculous assertions?

You've been asked and given plenty of opportunities to shew just a smidgin of proof that the NRA funds any shooters organizations in Australia.
What you should be doing, if you have a scrap of evidence, is your duty as a citizen and informing the Government that these Australian clubs are not disclosing income.

As for your assertion that the clubs are "so called", well the clubs are legal entities established by law.

A couple of nights ago, Sky News had McKenzie resigning. She didn't and she won't. Now they are working hard showing what a hypocrite Albanese is, dragging out old footage of his and Labor's rorting and buying votes. Both parties do it, and they won't be stopping any time soon because they know they can do it, and they know that they can get away with it, because voters continue supporting them.

A voters' strike is the only thing that will improve their behaviour.

Porky,

You said,
"In NSW you are required by law to obtain a 'pink slip' to register your car on the road. Should not the government meet the cost of the 'pink slip'? Afterall they are the ones requiring it!"

The Firearms liscence would be the equivalent of the 'pink slip' and as the bearer has to pay for it your logic is not apt, to say the least.

Your logic isn't.

Issy,

My beef is you gunnies are all cashed up with the dosh you get from your godfather, the mob, the NRA of America.Your mate Steve 'Rambo' Dickson was going to collect $20 million to fight gun laws in Australia.

Who honestly believes that McKenzie had the public interest at heart when she awarded monies to selected bodies?

. Soot "Beam up me Scotty' Morrison
. Barnaby 'Nutty as a fruit cake' Joyce
. Gladys 'I luv Xi" Liu
. Angus 'I wouldn't tell a lie' Taylor

And the list goes on. That's who!

I think we really need a federal ICAC to protect the wider community.

NB. Unless otherwise specified, anything I have said or say or comments I have made or make are intended to be read only by myself.

Please do not read anything I write unless it is addressed directly to you.

Paul,

Firstly since pork barrelling does not directly fall within the definition of corruption, your argument is specious. Secondly, since Labor has been actively pork barrelling any time it is in government and is busy doing it now the entire thread is more than a little hypocritical.

Mr 0,

Firstly, since you are posting on a public forum, every post is open for everyone to read. Secondly, without reading a post, how is anyone to determine that they are permitted to read it?

Is this an example of the critical reasoning your BA offers? I would suggest that is not just critical more D.O.A.

Shadow Minister,

I hadn't realised that. Thanks for letting me know. I've always thought I was the only one paying any attention to what I said.

You did your BSc in engineering in the UK, didn't you? I bet you did it when degrees were basically just awarded as either a BSc or BA, so one could choose which stream to follow. Giving rise to oddball combinations like BSc in accounting or tourism studies or a BA in architecture or human movement studies. That would explain why you were able to do a fourth year BSc honours in engineering.

Mr 0

I have seldom seen such undiluted drivel from a poster.

When I was doing engineering, a BA and BScs were 2yr degrees based on appropriate A levels with a 1 yr bridging course for those with insufficient qualifications BSc Hons was a 3 year degree as the equivalent to a 4yr degree in Aus etc.

Is OPIN our resident snob ?

Shadow Minister,

Basically what you are saying is that I am on the right track.

What do you think of the engineers who don't have degrees? Which is about 90% of engineers.

The best engineers I have worked with didn't go to university. I find that the graduate engineers tend to be snobbish and look down on all the other engineers eg boilermakers, railway and plant operators, automotive engineers, etc., simply because they don't have a degree. Do you find that?

Mr 0,

You are not even vaguely on the right track, or even in the right post code. I did a 4 year BSc Engineering with honours.

As for snobbishness, your posts have shown a level of arrogance and snobbery that I have never before seen in anyone and I have a school classmate that is a Rhodes Scholar and Oxford Don in the humanities.

As for engineering, this is a field that in itself is probably broader than all the humanities put together with different sets of skills from aircraft designers to "landscape engineers" and the regard each is held in is largely dependent on their abilities and achievements rather than the pieces of paper they hold.

Which is pretty much the opposite of what you do.

Shadow Minister,

You are confirming everything I have said. We're both on the same wavelength.

Shadow Minister,

PS You didn't address my question as to why graduate engineers look down their noses at the 90% of engineers who do not have degrees.

Why did you only mention 'aircraft designers' and not say aircraft maintenance or flight engineers as if to not recognise them as actually being engineers? Is that because you look down your nose at engineers who don't have a degree in engineering?

Mr 0,

Considering that you look down your nose at those for whom you flip burgers that are more qualified than yourself you have a lot of gall.

Secondly, your illiteracy is showing again, as I mentioned before, engineers seldom look down on people for lack of qualifications unlike the knobs in the humanities.

It must burn you to realise that a boilermaker makes more money than you do, and his work is vastly more appreciated.

Shadow Minister

You still haven't addressed my question as to why graduate engineers look down their noses at the 90% of engineers who do not have degrees.

I've been in the game for 50 years and I've seen it just about every day.

And if I had a dollar for every time I heard a graduate engineer say "Where just like doctors." I would be a very rich man. Now that's what I call snobbish. Engineers just like doctors, as if!

Goodness gracious, a colour coded sheet of grant applications!

And here I am still trying to figure out if it was China who bank rolled Clive Palmer at the 2019 federal election!

Plus I am still wondering if the promised $1000 extra in tax returns for people on less than $90K a year was a way of buying off low income Labor voters to switch their vote to Liberal in the expectation of getting that extra bit back in the tax return!

What an amazing imagination I have!

Did you see Morrison's pathetic attempt to defend the Minister for Sports Rorts at the National Press Club today. More than likely Morrison will throw McKenzie under the bus in a few days. The unfortunate thing with McKenzie going under the bus is Morrison was up to his eyeballs in the whole rort, and should throw himself as well under that bus!

The latest joke is ScumO' thinks after the $100 million sports rort, he can patch thing up by dishing out another $100 million to those who should have got the dosh in the first place. The great economic managers at work! What a joke.

Mr 0,

I have answered your question eloquently more than once but clearly you are either too obtuse or stupid to grasp.

The answer to "why graduate engineers look down their noses at the 90% of engineers who do not have degrees." is simple and in small words is mostly they don't and certainly in my experience there are very few that do.

A question for you is why are arts graduates pedophiles?

"A question for you is why are arts graduates pedophiles?"

Ah! Because they ran out of Catholic priests.

I don't need to defend Mr O, but that was uncalled for Shadow. I see what you are inferring. Under the bus with Sports Rorts and Morrison you go.

Shadow Minister,

After people see you saying things like that above they will now begin to understand why I have a very low opinion of engineers.

From now on expect to see a "Shadow Minister asked in one of his posts on 30.01.2020: Why are arts graduates pedophiles?"

Paul,

It was a response to the moronic rhetorical question from Mr 0 of "why graduate engineers look down their noses at the 90% of engineers who do not have degrees."

Mr 0,

Given that scores of Arts graduates are convicted pedophiles, the question of "why are arts graduates pedophiles" is just as valid as your question. If you assumed that I meant that all arts graduates are pedophiles then that is simply a misapprehension on your part due to your poor literacy skills.

Shadow Minister,

You are a sick man for claiming that arts graduates are pedophiles.

You should post an apology. If you cannot do that you should be kicked off OLO.

You are an absolute disgrace. But I must admit you are typical of most graduate engineers.

I make a promise to remind you of what you have done every chance I get.

Yes Mr O,

It should be noted that Shadow Minister, does not refer to a few arts graduates, or some, or most, not ever a majority of arts graduates in his question. The inference is ALL arts graduates are pedophiles. Mr Opinion has stated in the past he is an arts graduate, it is clear who is being called a pedophile.

"A question for you is why are arts graduates pedophiles?"

Mr O, just don't refer to any hard right poster as an Islamophobia, you might cop a 30 day suspension.

Mr 0,

I see that I struck close to home.

I never claimed nor inferred that all arts grads were pedophiles, and if you snowflakes were overly sensitive and illiterate enough to believe that then it is on you.

As your loathing for engineers and all those not artistically inclined is well documented as is your arrogance, racism, and continuously disgraceful behaviour on this site, I am not going to lose any sleep at your snowflake outrage

Wriggly Worm,

If I was to ask; Why are monkeys left handed?

The inference in my question to the average reader would be ALL monkeys are left handed. Just like your question.

Paul,

Inferences are entirely subjective.

To be entirely clear, what I wrote did not claim nor intended to imply, nor do I believe that all arts graduates are pedophiles.

SM, you are well known for using these kinds of grubby tactics against other posters. You and Mr O were having a discussion about engineers and arts degrees. THEN YOU pulled out of right field an unrelated pathetic reference to paedophilia, in an attempt to smear Mr O. YOU ARE A SHAMELESS GRUB! As has been pointed out in the past, yet I expect you to get away with it once again.

Paul,

Considering that you are one of the most shameless grubs on OLO I take everything you say with a pinch of salt especially since you admitted that you enjoyed trolling people.

Secondly, Mr 0 was not just "discussing" the differences and it would be dishonest to claim otherwise.

Shadow Minister,

I really think you have said enough.

Everyone can now see through the emperor's new clothes and recognise you now for what you really are.

Best thing for you to do, in the fashion of a typical graduate engineer, is stop bringing attention to yourself by talking about it and try to pretend you never said "arts graduates are pedophiles."

The Minister for Sports Rorts, and Slush Funds, HAS GOT THE BULLET!

Hallelujah ........... Praise be the Lord! There truly is a God!

And now Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison has to face a barrage of questions about his role in the Great Sports Rorts Conspiracy to buy the hearts and minds and yes VOTES of hard working Australians in the lead up to 2019 election.

I'm still curious to learn who bankrolled Clive Palmer for the purpose of retrieving 75% of votes that were headed from the LNP to Labor at the 2019 election.

And I wonder if anyone will ask any questions about the nature and purpose of the $1000 cash back in the tax refund if voters switched their vote from Labor to Liberal.

Hi Mr O, indeed he do!

I can't understand why the Minister for Sports Rorts palmed off a measly $36k of taxpayer money to her mates at the Wankerandratty Gunnie Club in Victoria. Its well known that most of these so called gun clubs are simply fronts for vigilante militia crazies. The far right Shooters and Hooters Party, One Nation, The Mad Katter Party and the red neck fringe of the National Party, already are well financed by funds from outside local boarders, money is channelled through the Aussie chapter the SSAA, and ends up, you know where. Could that be Palmer money? We just don't know. Issy can you shed any light on that for us?

I assume another good friend of Issy's is Steve 'Dillbrain' Dickson, who was teeing up $20 million from the US parent mob, the SRA for political use in Aussie. Shameful as it is, $20 mill makes $36k look like small beer. Issy any news on the $20 mill, has it arrived yet? Small denom used bills, untraceable. Shameful behaviour I must say, Issy do you agree?

Mr 0,

For someone with an arts degree you are surprisingly illiterate. When you quote someone, you are supposed to use the exact words used. When you don't you are in fact lying.

I think a more pertinent question would be "why are arts graduates compelled to lie?"

Shadow Minister,

Stop trying to make up excuses for what you said. It's time to put it behind you and move on.

My literacy skills got me through a BA and 2 x MAs at two of Australia's leading universities and I am considered to be one of the most educated men in the country because of it. So as long as I'm happy that's all that counts.

Of course you cannot say the same because you do not have a high level of education. Each of your 3 x degrees is only a vocational degree, providing you with the skills to carry out specific work tasks. You're pretty much just a mindless drone!

Hi Mr O,

I advise you not to feed this troll. I know, you know, and others know what Shadow Minister was implying when he said; "why are arts graduates pedophiles" It was directed at YOU a person with an arts degree, and YOU alone. A common tactic used by this grub is to throw this kind of mud from right field at another he don't agree with, like you, but in a way that it isn't quite direct, but still carries the personal implications. Then of course when challenged you'll get; "Who me, I didn't mean you, I was referring to others." rubbish. As long as you respond, he'll keep coming back.

BTW, this bloke seems to live a charmed life on the forum with this kind of garbage. If you or I did it the proverbial ton of bricks will come down on us. Do you know what I am saying?

Paul1405,

Forget about him. He's not very smart and being an engineer is the limit of his capabilities.

The problem with people like Shadow Minister is that they are unhappy with the way their lives have turned out. I feel pity for him.

Mr 0,

I still stand by my question and don't abjure from any part of it.

That you got your BA and MAs in spite of your poor literacy is more a reflection of the mediocrity of the qualifications than your education. And if your friends and family consider you one of the most educated people in the country then I would wonder whether any of them finished high school.

A more pertinent question would be whether you have actually worked for a living?

Shadow Minister,

I started out as a mechanical engineer: I have a BE and I have worked in the engineering field for 50 years and still working post retirement. I have always seen it as just a job and I have always been more interested in the Arts things like anthropology, archaeology, sociology, history, philosophy, etc.

I think I made a great decision in doing my BA and 2 x MAs because now I am recognised as one of the country's most educated by people who know a lot more than I do. Your opinion of me doesn't matter because you are not considered to be an educated man.

There is speculation that BONKING BARNEY could find himself once more Deputy Dog in the dysfunctional ScumO' government this time tomorrow. Oh! Barnyard Joy running the show, he looks set to roll the useless Micky Mac, a thought to horrific to contemplate! Another Cabinet Minister Mad Matt Caravan has also quit. What is this useless government doing to solve the serious problems facing the nation.

Paul1405,

I think it will be a close call and if I was going to have a bet on the outcome I would be putting my money on Joyce. Country people love Barnaby Joyce! The hat, the whip, the beer, the other woman: everything about Joyce says Country!

But just imagine the dilemma for old Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison having Mr 'I'm sick of having government in my life' sitting beside him on the front bench. With Barnaby's nutty-as-a-fruitcake ranting and Soot brandishing a chunk of coal to explain how God and our geocentric universe are the cause of global warming it should be a real circus.

Please ............ somebody bring on another election so that we can get rid of these clowns. Even Clive Palmer would be better than them!

Mr 0,

Your opinion counts for zero, not only because you are wrong by any definition of the word "educated", but also because you are narrow minded and bigoted. In my life I have never seen someone that has studied so hard to become so ignorant.

In any field there are leaders and followers. Competent engineers apply their education and intellect to finding the best ways to do things and in doing so finds newer and better methods and technologies.

You give me the impression that at best you were a drone that seldom rose above the menial, and that your foray into the arts was a retreat from the drudgery of a pitiful existence

Shadow Minister,

Just out of curiosity, how much do you charge to haunt a house?

What you do not seem to understand is that the thing that motivated me to do Arts is the idea that I could be something better in life than just an engineer.

If YOU are happy to be just an engineer than that is fine. For me it's just a job. It's definitely not the sort of thing I would want to pursue outside of work in my spare time, which is what I expect you do because obviously an engineer is all you seem to be capable of being. It shows!

Just to remind people that after this morning this could be the new Deputy Prime Minister of Australia:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/25/barnaby-joyce-sick-government-being-in-my-life-taxes-climate-change

Our children's futures could be in the hands of this man.

Mr 0,

I'm glad that you have got a hobby that you enjoy. Perhaps you could illuminate us on how this has improved the world more than giving you bragging points? Clearly no one else values it enough to actually pay you.

As for being "just an engineer" I don't know anyone that is one dimensional just a doctor, just a lawyer etc, and none of them would be bigoted enough to dismiss anyone else's career.

Shadow Minister,

You just reminded me of my three favourite oxymorons.

. An honest lawyer
. A poor doctor
. A civil engineer

Mr 0,

You can add to that list,
- a useful arts graduate.

Shadow Minister,

This is where you keep getting it wrong. The Arts things like history, anthropology, sociology, archaeology, philosophy, etc., are scholarly pursuits whereas engineering, law, medicine, etc., are vocational endeavours.

You need to separate the two. We don't do degrees in the Arts things to qualify for a job. I think this is where you are getting confused. You don't see jobs being advertised on SEEK or JORA websites for historians, sociologists, etc., so you jump to the conclusion that Arts degrees are of no use (specifically in gaining employment).

An engineer does his degree for his employer. An Arts grad does his degree for himself. Get it now?

The reason you cannot come to terms with this is that you are an uneducated man.

Hi Mr O,

Shadow is one of those "Gingerbeers", who sits in his 27th floor air coned office all day taking in the panoramic views of the office building next door. Not one to be seen anywhere near the coal face, his preferred means of communications with the real workers is his occasional dumb arse text from his mobile phone. Then returns to his laptop and his social media account.

Shadow did claim to be a man of some kind of "legal letters", always on here offering his Horace Rumpole like legal opinions, invariably shown to be the totally wrong. Never engage Shadow as you legal council, he will get you 20 years for jay walking.

Is this Shadow in action?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMuh33BMZYY

Paul1405,

I feel sorry for Shadow Minister.

Meeting me has made him realise that he took the wrong path in life and subsequently he didn't turn out to be the person he would really have liked to have become.

I think he would have liked to have been someone who was knowledgeable in the Arts things instead of ending life as just another ignorant engineer.

A complete cock up by the dysfunctional Nationals. Bonking Barney is now left like a headless chook flapping around the barnyard, as he tried to bring the axe down on Hopeless Mick, he failed this time. However I'm sure this is not the last time Bonking Barney wont be after the job of 'Head Donkey' at the Nats.

Shadow why are Coalition MP's and their supported such wombats?

How do they get away with it? With a new scandal hitting the ScumO' Government. Its the "SPORTS RORTS ON STEROIDS" scandal. Not satisfied with palming off $100,000,000 of taxpayers money to buy votes, now its been revealed another $150,000,000 has been taken before the election and given to marginal Liberal electorates for, wait for it.... SWIMMING POOLS FOR THE GIRLS. Nothing to do with merit, just where will the Coalition win the most votes!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-07/government-cash-splash-swimming-pools/11924850

Mr 0

Conversing with you has made me infinitely glad that I chose the path I did, working with dedicated, smart and hard working professionals, and avoided getting tangled up with the arty farty brigade that work in boring thankless jobs and need pieces of paper to give them a feeling of self worth.

As for the wankeratti in labor and the greens who conveniently forget the $ms of pork barrelling under Krudd and Juliar and as for Adam Bent's green new squeal, the less said the better.

"Police have charged a Labor high-flyer and influential political lobbyist with child sex ­offences and producing and possessing child pornography.

Andres Puig — a former ­assistant state secretary of the Victorian ALP with impeccable Labor connections — is listed to appear in Melbourne Magistrates Court on April 16."

Here we go again... Left whingers and kiddie porn.

Shadow, tries at deflection. How about a comment on the latest "SPORTS RORTS ON STEROIDS" scandal, $150,000,000 scandal, something a Federal ICAC could gets its teeth into. SPORTS RORTS ONE was red hot, SPORTS RORTS TWO is white hot! How about that Ms Bridget Sports-Rorts still with her snout in the taxpayer trough!

As for this former ALP person, if he's proven guilty, then I say LOCK THE GRUB UP! No defending after the fact like so many forum conservatives did for Harris and Pell, and are still doing, claiming Harris and Pell are the victims of terrible evil children. Where do you stand on the Dirty Old Men, Shadow, with the forums Old Men I suspect? End of story

Paul,

As you went to a catholic school you have more to do with Harris and Pell than I do. Perhaps this is what inspired you to join the greens.

Note that Pell is also an arts graduate.

Shadow, like Pell you are also a "Minister", like Harris you are also a jerk.

Nothing to say about 'Sports Rorts Two' did ScumO' spend taxpayer money putting a swimming pool in YOUR backyard?

Paul,

You are an obnoxious troll that aspires to be a jerk.

P.S. Adam Bent is also an arts graduate like Pell.

"Prime Minister Scott Morrison‘s Government has been hard at work giving taxpayer-funded handouts to the people who need it most. It’s just that, apparently, their definition of “the people who need it most” is “the members of Scott Morrison’s own already pretty well-off Pentecostal church.
The money is expected to fund the installation of 18 fixed security cameras, 13 security lights, video intercoms to 3 designated areas, 2 security and alarm systems and the employment of a security guard” at the church, according to grant documents that are freely available to the public."

The grant was obtained from a government fund intended to protect children who are at risk of attack, harassment or violence stemming from racial or religious intolerance.”

Of all the churches in Australia seems the well off Sutherland Horizon Church, regularly attended by the Morrison family, is in dire need of taxpayer funding for "security".

AND WHO SAID WE DON'T NEED A FEDERAL ICAC!

Paul,

As I said before, while the pork barrelling done by the libs is unethical it is actually not illegal. Given that any ICAC's mandate is only to investigate potentially illegal activities in government, your calls for a federal ICAC based on this is completely irrelevant.

That every labor government is guilty of the same or greater levels of pork barrelling would have half the labor front bench in the docks.

SM, its not just pork barrelling its possible corruption, the inference is a politician has used their influence to obtain a financial advantage for an organisation he or she is associated with. As in the first post on this topic, quote; "According to former NSW Auditor-General Tony Harris, a Federal Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) would be the ideal body to get to the bottom of the McKenzie sports grants scandal." that would also apply to any church that a Prime Minister is associated with.

Its inconceivable that a $110k grant so happens to go to a Church Mob, which incidentally is a very wealthy church mob, that so happens to have the PM as a devotee. And the money was not used as intended by the parameters of the grants scheme, a government fund intended to protect children who are at risk of attack, harassment or violence stemming from racial or religious intolerance. No, instead the money is used for church security! Its blatant corruption in my view.

Your "legal argument" that the other mob do it so why can't we is PATHETIC!

Paul,

You have a habit of blowing things way out of proportion deliberately. How's the case against Angus Taylor going? Yet another bogus reference by Labor to the police 10 out of 10 now.

Similarly, your claim of possible corruption is just as bogus, I don't believe you even know the definition of corruption. Did the libs get a direct financial benefit from this? the answer is a clear No. Getting a political benefit while frowned upon is not yet a crime.

Secondly, where the hell were you when Labor was blatantly pork barrelling. In hiding I guess.

43% of the sports rorts approved by Rorts Minister McKenzie have been shown to be ineligible! Morrison misled parliament by claiming all the rorts were eligible, Morrison has lied to the Australian people!

Shadow, please explain the 7 months of coloured coded spreadsheets going back and forth between the Rorting Ministers office, and the Rorting Prime Ministers office.

Shadow, please explain the $110,000 given to Morrison's Church?

What a PATHETIC defence, the other mob done it, so why can't we. Being a fella of "legal letters" as you claim Shadow, try that defence some time in court, me thinks it will get you 20 years behind bars.

Paul,

You are both continually outraged by the liberals and completely silent when labor does exactly the same.

The point is that none of this is actually illegal and even if there were a federal ICAC they could not touch this.

The only way to stop this is to stop governments allocating money which is pretty much the point of government.

Shadow, you have no problem with politicians acting corruptly, pork barrelling with taxpayer money, provided they are Liberal/National MP's. Unlike you, I have no truck with politicians of any political persuasion acting corruptly, and have said so many times on this forum.

Paul,

I don't agree with pork barrelling, but I am not stupid enough to call it corruption.

Secondly, I have never seen you condemn the blatant pork barrelling by Labor under Krudd and Juliar.

Definition; "CORRUPTION is the misuse of public power (by elected politician or appointed civil servant) for private gain."

With 'Sports Rorts' we had the elected politicians Morrison and McKenzie misusing their power to rort the taxpayer by illegally manipulating the Sports Grants Scheme (43% ineligible) to their advantage, i.e. their re-election.

Two views, that of former NSW Auditor-General Tony Harris, who in his opinion if the sports grants case had came across his desk during his seven year tenure as NSW's chief accountability officer he would have referred it for investigation to the NSW I.C.A. CORRUPTION. A highly respected legal figure.

OR, we can take the opinion of a biased bubble brain, Dennis Denuto type character, who claims 'legal letters' from the back of the Cornflakes packet! "There's nothing to see here!", so he reckons. PATHETIC!

Paul,

Your knowledge of the law would make Dennis Denuto look like a genius.

Firstly in the definition of corruption, private gain refers to personal financial profit (as done by Obeid etc), not simply getting re elected, otherwise competent government would be a crime. (something labor or the greens could never be accused of)

By your definition, most of Labor's cabinet would be in the dock.

Good one Shadow, I'll dismiss that opinion as typical rubbish, yes get elected, keep you big fat ministers, and prime ministers salaries, is that what they were up to, CORRUPTION! BTW, by your definition Macdonald who was found guilty of misconduct in public office, CORRUPTION, was not corrupt as he stood to make no financial gain, just helping out an old mate in Obeid.

New, just for you, we had 'Sports Rorts I' then 'Sports Rorts II', now we have the $3 billion Road Congestion Rort where 83 per cent of the funds went to Coalition held seats and seats they wanted to win of Labor. Nothing for real problems of road congestion just mega pork barrelling with taxpayer money!

Gee ScumO' and his mob, make Bob Askin, Henry Bolte and Joh Bjelke Petersen, all knights of the LNP and corrupt to their boot straps, look like choir boys.

Paul,

You talk absolute bollocks, firstly I used the definition of corruption in the dictionary and secondly Mcdonald was absolutely gaining financially from Obeid.

As for your fantasy roads rort, the major points of congestion for decades has been the roads out of Sydney to Brisbane etc which has been worked on for more than a decade.

The fact is that sometimes major capital expenditure needs to happen in seats aligned to the government, and spending money based solely on even political alignment is just as moronic.

Talking of corruption, GetUp is in the news again for all the wrong reasons. The Labor/Green group apparently spends 70% of donations on fat paychecks and travel etc. for political fat cats.