Is police investigating police an appropriate way to determine the circumstance when an officer shoots a citizen. Time and again these investigation lead to the total exoneration of the police involved. There is a perception among many that these internal investigations are biased in favour of the officer(s) involved. In fact many believe they are simply a whitewash.

Is it not time that when these tragedies occur, that an independent body at arms length from the police force investigates. In this way the perception of bias could be alleviated, and where necessary appropriate changes, even murder charges, can be forthcoming.

Straw man argument, Paul. Of course there will be a Territory-appointed investigation into whether the bloke at Yuendumu was armed, whether or not he used his knife, and whether or not it was necessary to shoot him, etc.

Wait and see.

Joe

They say it will be independent
Too he was armed
I think the verdict will be not guilty
But then I see something here others may not, in my life Police, [the younger generation] have shown signs of not seeing that everyone is not automatically a criminal
That leads to blinkered vision is a lot of matters HIGHLIGHT recent police shooting*of two performing a sex act** with what clearly they knew** was a toy gun
Watched a junior cop screaming scum, as he raced along a line of traffic [at smash site] at the local real estate man, for using his phone

Belly,

How did they know that it was a toy gun?

No more expensive quangos, thankyou. If there is any suggestion that internal investigations are iffy, government can, and do, appoint legally qualified people to look further. Unfortunately, given the riffraff abroad all the time, police shootings are inevitable. High ranking cops are more politician than policeman these days, and they are willing enough to throw a poor bloody constable protecting himself to the wolves if they get the slightest chance. Leave the police alone.

Hi there LOUDMOUTH...

G'day Joe...

Being reluctant to even bother replying to anything the originator of this Topic, being in my opinion, the most reviled creature, ever on this Site -

I'll tell you this. Whether this bloke is guilty of murder as charged or otherwise, his career is finished in the job. The moment you decide to clear leather, you can rarely ever turn back, especially if involved in a critical incident, one that I've been in myself, on a number of occasions. Despite the offender being armed I'd always prefer to resort to a non-lethal option, of which a uniform copper have at their disposal, then an F/A. Insomuch you have seventeen ways to destroy your career entirely, and irrevocably change your life forever. Thanks Joe.

I would be far more concerned if it was abc journalist investigating. That would end in half truths, many omissions and the result the narrative demands.

Joe, what are you coming at, get off your high horse, nowhere have I mentioned, Saturdays shooting of Kumanjayi Walker at Yuendumu NT. Since then Constable Zachary Rolfe has been charged with one count of murder. I cannot recall the last instance of a copper being charged with murder in similar circumstances.

The question; is it appropriate for police to investigate police in matters that lead to the death of a citizen?

Paul,

Police only investigating police ? Of course not. I look forward to a full and independent investigation.

Joe

Your hilarious runner :-))
Sooo true!
Dan

Runner FAKE NEWS you are a victim of it
See Trump's boss Putin over night, he denied any involvement in the downing of that plane
His spokesperson used the term fake news
FAKE NEWS was invented in America, a country never known for respect for the truth
Used by its INVENTORS to confuse and hide truth

Dear Paul,

I feel that it should be an independent body
doing any investigations. Police investigating
their own - is not a good idea. Just as having
the church investigate their own clergy. That's
why a Royal Commission was necessary.
The same applies in reference to our police
force. Corruption needs to be prevented.

Maybe Jussie Smollet should be called in for his 'expertise'.

Hi Foxy,

I recall the "Redfern Riots" back in 2004, following the death of a local aboriginal boy T.J. Hickey. He was impaled on a steel fence, the boy was being chased by police without just cause, the police officers involved claimed that they were not chasing T.J., this was later proven to be a lie on those officers part, although police had investigated police without interviewing eye witnesses. The local coppers simply for sport would often chase local kids without provocation. The question at the time was asked would the coppers chase kids around leafy Turramurra without provocation. It was a case of the coppers protecting their own.

I don't know why I read the news articles.
It's like there's a new level of stupid every day.

If police investigating police is bad then check this one out:

- So we keep this foreign refugee on an island for 7 years and he writes a book, and then we give him our nations highest literary prize.
And then he moves to New Zealand.

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/iranian-author-held-on-manus-arrives-in-nz/news-story/9f20b099ac524ed813c8a379d77c8e2a

Maybe the stupid has been going on all along and I just wasn't paying as much attention before.
Here's a question I'll probably regret asking.
Are we a nation of idiots?

Paul,

You rely on people's lack of memory. The police car had followed T. J. Hickey on his bike until it came to a road blockage, and discontinued the surveillance. T. J. Hickey continued riding fast down-hill, as far as I can tell, and smack bang into the iron fence and impaled himself on it. A dreadful tragedy, but not involving any police.

Perhaps you know better ?

Joe

Let's get real about this recent case: of course there will be a trial. The truth will hopefully come out there.

As for being bailed, surely nobody thinks that the police officer charged will skip the country ? He'll turn up at the trial, as he is obviously required to do.

But I can see why some people want him found guilty now, dragged out and lynched. They've already found him guilty, so why waste time and money on a trial ?

Let's wait and see.

Joe

An independent and impartial tribunal is a good idea providing that some of its members have been at the coal face and can tell the difference between making a spli-second decision and judging with the leisure of hindsight.

Dear Joe,

The police were cleared of all charges concerning
TJ Hickey's tragic death despite witnesses having
seen a police car clip his bike as it chased him
and it caused his impalement. Paul is right. It is
a perfect example of why police should not investigate
police actions. Going against police procedure they removed
his body from the fence - and even sent away the police
emergency vehicle. Finally an ambulance did arrive. TJ died the
next day. No surprises there. No wonder the family is still
distraught.

But hey, it's all an anti-police Aboriginal plot.
How could the police possibly be guilty -
we all know what these blackfellas get up to -
right Joe?

Joe, I was in Redfern at the time, I know exactly what happened, where were you? Did you get your account from those white protectors you bang on about?

Often the police for a bit of sport would pursue aboriginal children through the streets of Redfern. I dare say the kids seen it as a bit of a lark as well, get away from the coppers and all that. In this case things went wrong and a young man lost his life. That was not the intention of the police. My point is the police closed ranks around the two officers involved, panicked, fabricated a story of no pursuit. They failed to investigate properly, no doubt to protect the careers of their fellow officers. It should never have happened, it was a stupid thing to do, the young coppers should have been more responsible in their actions.

If you are so knowledgeable of the incident, answer this, and its never been answered satisfactorily, you admit there was a pursuit to a point, why were the coppers in pursuit of T.J. Calling it "surveillance" is what the coppers called it. That is straight out of the old press reports of the time, what crime did they suspect had been committed by the kid?.

'How could the police possibly be guilty -
we all know what these blackfellas get up to -
right Joe?'

yep certainly if you have lived with them. We all know the black armed narrative that abc/nitv etc will always look to present don't we Foxy. Those hoorible men and women who are often called to violent situations only to be spat at and become punching bags. Then again you know better eh Foxy.

runner,

In this case - I do know better.

And you too should not defend the actions
of the indefensible. It gives good police officers
a bad name - and there are many good police officers
as we know. But denying the existence of rotten apples
in the force does not do one any credit.

Paul & Foxy,

My limited understanding of the incident is that the police stopped a hundred metres from where T.J. Hickey was killed. Is that so ?

Joe

Dear Joe,

No!

Hi Foxy,

Some take the attitude that the police are there to protect them from harm, enforce the law etc, this is true for the majority of the time. If there should be the occasional unfortunate incident, well for the likes of runner that is a small price to pay for the security police afford them. Besides these incidents do not involve them.

"if you have lived with them" given your attitude to aboriginal people I very much doubt you have "lived with them" runner. Did you live in their house, next door, down the street where?

On the 'Drum' they are discussing the need for police to carry guns in isolated communities. Interesting.

'"if you have lived with them" given your attitude to aboriginal people I very much doubt you have "lived with them" runner. Did you live in their house, next door, down the street where? '

actually as usual you bleat your ignorance Paul. I has 3 women beaten in my front yard in approx. 6 months period. They came looking for refuge from floggings they received. Not nice to have blood all over your front door. Very thankful that the police were able to come. You are obviously ignorant to what Police have to put up with although being from the Greens who seem to like to spit, scratch, scream and accuse firefighters of domestic violence maybe you just approve.

"On the 'Drum' they are discussing the need for police to carry guns in isolated communities. Interesting."

The Left whackos who infest The Drum should be sent off to isolated communities to live for a while - try their hands at a bit of policing without guns to protect their useless selves, the women and children.

Dear Paul,

My husband experienced a very distressful incident a
few years ago when he was working in an office
in St Kilda here in Melbourne. One morning he heard
what sounded like multiple gun-shots in the vacinity
of an adjacent medical centre car park. On inquiring
of people in the area it appeared that five police officers
shot a woman, and killed her,
because she had a knife.

There are surely many ways of disarming people especially
when there's five police officers against one woman (taser,
capsicum spray, nets, batons, or simply shooting in the leg
instead of killing). Everybody in the neighbourhood were
disgusted with the police action.

It appears the police were cleared of all charges.

Hi there RUNNER & TTBN...

I agree with most of your statements herein As you know, I've left the Forum, being too old to argue with those who know best. I'll tell you one thing. The moment you decide to make that fateful decision to 'clear leather' you're a mere 2 1/2 lbs away from making an irrevocable decision of your life & career!

It's the* Coroner* who determines culpability or otherwise, in all police shootings. I 'f..kin' know! I've been there! And I'll not allow that vile 'creature' who originated this Topic to remain unchallenged. I'll not confront him personally, as I know my abhorrence and revulsion for his cowardice, would get the better of my anger for him.

It's the Coroner who examines all the facts despite what IAD might determine, and they provide a brief of evidence on the matter. The Coroner has wide powers to compel witnesses to give their evidence. Moreover, many of the usual rules in evidence are set aside, including the hearsay rule.

All the Coroner wants to know, is who; what; when; and why. The truth. His role is to investigate all sudden and suspicious deaths and Fires. He has no power to try a crime.

Keep up the good work fellas, otherwise, the 'Left' will destroy this Nation forever.

O SUNG WO I respect you, true, but we have differing views also true
I Think you deserve credit and thanks for your service
But mate not all your views or companions
So it is you and I have a right to an opinion
Now YOU have told us in the long ago past about SOME POLICE
I had two serving Detectives in the NSW forces, one a sergeant, he told me much the same both uncles and mates
Bumper Farrell, his last months in the force brought us together, to talk about very bad acts of violence in Villawood, you may remember
Do you think the Detective Chief Inspector with our ICAC who wanted me to dob in police was wrong? *his words, it is only some Belly help us weed them out*
I refused to sign see some innocents may have been involved
Did give evidence to save the job of one of that category
This thread rightly, highlights a fear most have, police standards are slipping
Now redfern police academy, long gone do you remember that black and white photo on the wall, thug shot in laneway bullet holes in him
That made me walk out never became a cop but ask a few here I am known for supporting the good ones
You once asked me via GY to return to this site please remember every opinion has a right to be seen and no you do not have the right nore do I to damn others that way

Dear Belly,

Criticising the actions and behaviors of some within
the police force - is not
meant to denigrate the actions and behaviors of all
police officers. However, when investigating suspected
inappropriate actions - it is better to be done by an
independent body rather than for it to be done by one
of their own. That has been proven to be the case over
and over again.

An independent body's findings will be more readily
accepted to an internal investigation - which will
usually be suspect - especially by family members
involved.

G'day BELLY ol' friend...

You're (I think) referring to that maggot Warren LANFRANCHIE if memory serves me right. Mate, of course, there're bad coppers in the force, which makes it so much harder for the rest of us to do our job. Whenever there's a 'power' conferred upon an individual, there's always a potential and temptation to abuse that power. I myself have had that happen to me.

I was with the CIB for nearly twenty odd years, and I was attached to the Vice & Gaming. So you can imagine the temptation for some to be lured into accepting favours from both Vice and Gaming in turn (the worst sin, being gaming by far). So human nature being as it is, temptation occasionally reigns supreme.

What stops you from slipping into that abyss of corruption, is everything you'll lose. And I mean everything Belly. Your job, your good fame and character, your marriage, respect from your colleagues so, so much more. You've been around, you know what I mean. And in some areas, you've got to exhibit some toughness, especially when dealing with street hoodlums. I'll make no secret, you give me a slap, it'll be returned in kind. As I'm sure you'd do the same. Good on ya BELLY ol' mate.

Belly, you are wrong. The number of literate aboriginal children far outnumber the illiterate ones.
The vast majority of aboriginal children live in cities or large towns and they they are generally all literate, just as the white children in those places are generally literate.
Even in the northern towns, places like Katherine, Broome, Kununurra, Mt Isa etc, most aboriginal kids get a basic education. They may not top classes but they are educated enough to go on to TAFE or get a job. A small percentage are actually top students and go onto a Uni.
The severely illiterate are those living in remote communities or town kids with drug/alcohol dependant parents. But these are a small percentage of the whole, it’s just they are given far more publicity.
That’s not to say strong efforts should not be made to get these kids educated but in the same way we need to educate the neglected white kids.

Big Nana if only if only you got that right, not going to mention towns but they exist
Kids near here can not read and write their mum and dad can not they live outside town in houses we call the mission
One such place has had 5 domestic murders in my time here one a woman killing her husband
A teacher from my party and an ex work mate [holding a teacher's assistant roll] both cry constantly over this

Belly & Big Nana,

You're both right, that there are two Indigenous populations -

* one, the majority, usually urban, seizing opportunities and going on to trades and university graduation, and into employment, with the same life expectancy and opportunities (although I should qualify that heavily for those who 'tick the box') as non-Indigenous Australians; and

* the other, usually remote, rural and outer suburban, locked into a closed circle [called 'community'] - partly of their own making - of pensions for life (a.k.a. CDP etc.), no work or attempt to work, so no perceived (I stress that word) need for education for their kids, who will do the same. What my wife Maria called 'an embedded population' or 'encapsulated population'. And with noticeably less healthy, shorter and more brutal lives.

So, for one population there is enormous hope. For the other, none.

Joe

Loudmouth knew you would know that and hope you understand why I say the following
Not native to the NSW Mid north coast, but by chance have lived half my life here
Decades ago, a police officer bashed a kid from the mission, then a very active activist I took the kids side
It was one of a dozen maybe a hundred such things, even while on police radio, calling those on the mission filthy names
It got too much for that mission they marched on the town demanding better
Bloke this is true, an idiot, white business man, in another town, put an explosive device on a flag pole on his roof
To be, his words, the signal to get out on the street with guns in hand
I remind others it was in the 1980,s but not far away the only town in this country to vote against recognition can be found and that vote? could be the same today in that place, we must do better

When a "brief of evidence" is presented by police to a coroner, it may be totally factual, it could well be a thorough and complete investigation. containing witness statements and other material of great benefit to the coroner. There is also opportunity for deception, fabrication and omission on the part of police in preparing that brief. It cuts both ways.

As recently as September, Victorian coroner Caitlin English was scathing in her assessment of police in relation to her order to provide a competent officer to give evidence during the inquiry into the "death in custody" of Aboriginal woman Tanya Day in 2017. “This witness (superintendent Sussan Thomas) was asked at my direction to come to court,” said English. Despite being given 6 months notice that they (the police) would be required to provide a senior officer as a witness into police policies, procedures and training in regards to aboriginal confinement. Thomas was only notified two days before the inquest was scheduled to conclude. Her 14-page statement was only received at 9.51am on the final day. Super Thomas admitted under examination this was not really her area of expertise.

Peter Morrissey SC for the Day family was indignant.

“The witness has been put here specifically because she doesn’t know,” he said.

Earlier he said the witness, superintendent Sussan Thomas, had been appointed as a “decoy”.

Coroner English agreed, and called an immediate conclusion to proceedings.

Inquests into deaths in custody follow a pattern.

First the officers directly involved, police or prison, give evidence about their involvement with the deceased, pertinent details of which they cannot recall.

Then comes the medical evidence and opinions from expert witnesses, who say the care of the deceased person was inadequate.

The situation in the north of Australia with regards deaths in custody is now such an explosive topic that local police have admitted that whenever possible, they won’t pick arrest heavily intoxicated or drug afflicted people, even if they are a risk to themselves or others, because of the risk they may die in a cell.
This means those drunk or drugged people are free to beat their partners and others or die in the gutter because there is no one watching them.
So, whilst deaths in custody may reduce, the rate of assaults or drug/alcohol related deaths outside prison increases.
Nobody wins here.

Folks think with me back to that unfortunate death in Redfern of that young kid
I think Loudmouth told it much like it was
BUT do we remember that ABC documentary? the one showing police live?
A raw young female bragging on camera about free food for cops
The sniggering and damning insult used against a then NRL footballer?
Now back to today, *it appears police some at least, take on a closed personality within their ranks*
Everyone'is a suspect everyone a criminal, nothing those few cops do is wrong
We are headed down hill toward an AMERICAN style policing that is? you tell me, tell the hundreds of killed unarmed African Americans or kids murdered because they had a plastic gun

Hi Belly,

"that unfortunate death in Redfern of that young kid I (Belly) think Loudmouth told it much like it was" Joe was probably cosy in his bed in SA at the time.

Well no he didn't, he gave you more or less the official copper spiel, which was fed to the media, and they ran with it, particularly the Murdoch press.

I was on the ground in Redfern at the time, people there knew what really happened. SO Do I.

Take this on board, when the call went out for witnesses to come forward, an aboriginal woman who eye balled the whole incident went to the Redfern coppers to offer assistance. The duty office took her name and address, and a brief as to what she was doing there. With the promise of "someone will contact you" she left. No copper every came around to get an official statement from the woman. Later they claimed to have had enough witness statements, they didn't need hers.

I say the coppers never intended for the boy to die, or come to any harm, it was a case of a couple of older juveniles (the coppers) having a bit of fund with a younger juvenile (T.J Hickey), as was common in Redfern at that time, the coppers knew all the kids, if you weren't known to the coppers then there was something wrong with you. Unfortunately that bit of juvenile behaviour had tragic consequences for the boy. I suppose the coppers involved went on to have fulfilling and rewarding careers, I don't know if they did or not!

Fair enough Paul except your view but did you see that redfern doco?
You know I am a ham radio operator but do you know we quite legal, once heard every word on their radio? Local*star* constable always named his victims scumbags
Long time ago but he GOT ARRESTED for drug dealing
Police should not investigate police ever

Hi Belly,

Back in the good old days in Refern, kids were constantly in trouble, in the streets breaking into cars, stealing etc, young kids. One afternoon I returned to my car parked in Chalmers St, to find the passenger door wide open, and a young aboriginal girl about 12, going through the glove box. I said; "What are you doing?", her reply "F Off!" Me; "I can't, cause there's a little kid sitting in my drivers seat, pretending to drive."...."Your car mister?"...."Yep, afraid so!"..."sorry"..."I've got the sits with you, you've broken my door lock..."sorry mister"..."Ok, how about you take your little brother and go home, and we'll forget it."...ÖK mister, got any smokes?"..."Nah don't smoke, got anything I can keep the door shut with, while I drive home?"...."Nah!"

With cooperation between the police and the community, most of the petty crime has stopped in Redfern, these days.

Long time ago Paul this 16 year old went from Villawood to St Peters via Redfern by train, worked wheeling bricks
Was much as you say Aunt mums sister raised 13 kids [mostly on her own after their dad died, in Redfern [white family]
So knew a bit about those days
Things got better but in truth much like that right now in some bush towns

There's no need for Police to investigate Police. Police should investigate Coppers !

Paul,

The internal affairs section of the police force is deliberately independent and as such generally feared and loathed by most police.

The point of the IA is to provide people with a deep knowledge of police workings and procedures against which they can provide a reasoned assessment.

I know from your record that you have an antipathy for the police and would simply prefer a lynch mob.

Shadow Minister.

The internal affairs section of police forces has
come under scrutiny. There's been a great deal of
conflict of interest in the provision of material
produced by the NSW police which showed the alleged
investigations were biased - and found not to be
independent, effective or impartial in either their
investigations and their conduct.

This information is available on the web.

SM "(Paul1405) would simply prefer a lynch mob" Where have I said that, another one of your lies. I prefer an independent body at arms length to investigate police in these circumstances. You and your "Nothing to see here mentality" is part of the problem.

True Foxy, many times police internal affairs have been found not to be independent, how could they be? At the end of the day they are "investigating" work colleagues, in colloquial terminology "mates", everyone loves to be loved. Police also hate defence council, judges, do good politicians, liberal thinkers, the accused, witnesses for the defence, juries, etc. In other words they would love to run the whole show themselves. A police state no less, we don't want that, and we can't have that, no matter how much some on here would be in favour of it.

At the end of the day they are "investigating" work colleagues, in colloquial terminology "mates",
Paul1405,
And, the do-gooders tolerate it until it starts affecting them personally.

Paul,

Why are you lying again? I never claimed that you said anything, I simply stated my opinion based on you prior record of wanting an extrajudicial murder conviction of a driver that hit and killed an aboriginal thief in spite of the complete lack of evidence that the accident was deliberate.

If you use this as your benchmark for lying, then I will call you out every time you use wild hyperbole.

Shadow, given your posts regarding police, its my opinion you simply favour a police state in the mould of a Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. Fortunately your far right extremist views are only shared by a very small minority of the population, half of whom are on this forum.

NSW Police Commissioner Michael Fuller told the Telegraph news, young people should have “a little bit of fear” of police and said questioning “the legitimacy of policing” had “a negative impact on public safety”.

If this is the attitude of the man at the top, what kind of signal is that giving to the functionaries below?

fear...no questioning....what next!

Paul,

Lying again? However, as a greens representative you can't help it.

I have never said anything that indicates I am in favour of a police state, in fact your urges to convict someone without evidence would indicate that you are more in favour of a stalinist police state.

Shadow, just giving my opinion of what you might believe, just as you claim that you are giving your opinion of what I might believe. You being a One Nation member, I believe you are full of it.

fear...no questioning....what next!
Paul1405,
If no other benefit at least it'd result in fewer Paul1405's in society !

Coppers at work;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e24UHjYwUuI

Paul,

Paul once again you are lying through your teeth. You no more believe that I am a one nation member than I believe that you are a convicted pedophile.

Hi Shadow,

Not to sure about that Shadow, in the 10 years we have been sparring on the Forum I think your opinions have moved from small 'l' liberal to far more right wing, maybe just an age thing. This calling me a liar over and over again is a bit much, and this attributing "thinking" to me, and when challenged calling it "opinion" is a cop out as well. Anyone can say so and so is what you like, and then later qualify "well it was only my opinion". You tend to drop in with those attacks, when you have not been contributing in general on a discussion.

Hows would this sound, and how would it be treated by the media, coming from a Trump political opponent when answering a direct question about Trump and women; "I don't think Donald Trump is a drug dealer, but I do think he's a womaniser." Throwing in the unrelated drug dealing is a backhanded way of planting suspicion in the mind of the listener. Just as your last comment put the old unrelated nasty "I don't think you are a convicted pedophile" then why say it, it does not relate to the topic, is it done to plant suspicion. You seem to have a thing with that, for a good while you would try guilt by association, knowing I am a member of the Greens and given some bloke, totally unknown to me, who at some time had also been a member, had ran unsuccessfully as a candidate in a local council election, and then was charged with paedophile offences. That combo was picked up by the right wing media and given some space, then you kept asking if I knew this grub. Over and over I told you I didn't, but you kept asking. Gilt by association, say it often enough, some people will start believing it. A favourite tactic of one Joseph Goebbels.

Paul,

With all due respect your posts over the last decade have been loaded with hyperbole from mere exaggeration to the point of outright dishonesty, and to a large extent I simply called you out and refrained from more robust language. However, when you started deliberately misquoting me and continued doing so after the lie being pointed out I started calling you a liar .

You then retaliated a few days ago calling me a liar for misquoting you when I clearly had not quoted you at all, but rather stated my opinion on your beliefs based on plenty of your prior commentary.

Your next move was to then to proceed to make a string of bogus claims about me that don't have shred of support in any of my posts, the latest of which is the fantastical claim that I am a One nation member in spite of my frequently posting that I never have and never will join a political party.

As to my political views, I don't believe that they have changed, but given the rise of identity politics and the censorious nature of the left into which both Labor and the Greens have immersed themselves our paths have certainly become more distant.

I am prepared to call a truce, but will still call you out when you stray too far.

Truce Shadow, agreed and ditto. When I first joined the Forum you were one of my favourite jousters. I think everyone as they grow older tend to become more conservative. My two grandchildren aged 12 and 13 asked me this morning what was it like for us in "1940" (can you tell me ha ha). I said other than not being born then we didn't watch TV, Grandson said "Why... was it black and white. Nah...it didn't exist."...:could not believe it, no TV.

Can you believe this? The NSW Police are investigating one of the ScumO ministers Angus Taylor over possible criminal activity. What does ScumO do, he rings the NSW police commissioner Mick Fuller for a chat about the matter. Was the chat anything to do with political interference with a criminal matter? Did the conversation go something like this; "Mick, Remember the good old days down in the shire, when we were neighbours and mates, you would bring in my garbage bin, I would take out your garbage bin, it now time to bury the garbage. By the way, me boy Angus is in the clear? Right its all sweet okay." Should the matter end up in court will Morrison get the judge on the blower so he can give him is verdict? ScumO refuses to release details of his conversation with Fuller, this is the kind of thing that goes on in some autocratic state run by a dictator.

Paul,

It appears that you have a inability to stick to the truth.

Firstly, the worst that AT can be accused of is libel which anyone other than a moron would know is not criminal.

Secondly, the police are obligated to investigate anything referred to them whether complete bollocks or not. That the opposition leader made the referral is not a surprise and follows many referrals by labor that have gone nowhere.

Where were these ijits when Craig Thomson was around?

Come come Shadow,
"anyone other than a moron would know (it) is not criminal" Is that so Shadow.

Again the forums resident Rumpole of the Bailey sticks his foot in it.

"A police strike force will investigate whether any CRIMINAL OFFENCES have taken place in relation to document used to attack Sydney lord mayor Clover Moore. A NSW police spokesperson said the investigation was in the early stages and detectives from the state crime command’s financial crimes squad had launched Strike Force Garrad to determine if any CRIMINAL OFFENCES had been committed.

How about ScumO follows ministerial convention and stands down Taylor while the police determine if he's been up to any CRIMINAL activity. Someone doctored a (local) government annual report and then Taylor used it for in a shameful attempt to politically smear the Lord Mayor of Sydney

Note to all forumites, should you ever require the services of a lawyer do not, I repeat do not, engage Shadow Minister as your defence council. This legal eagle is sure to get you 20 years in the slammer, no sweat!

Been a bad week for the ScumO government, started off early trying to defend Taylor. Then to have their UNION BASHING LEGISLATION rolled in the Senate. Unfortunately while the ScumO mob have been trying to kick the CFMMEU and other unions in the guts, another construction worker has been killed on the job in Sydney.

SM,

Libel may be a civil matter provided the assertion has not been doctored or forged, ad is actionable if what it asserts is untrue and unjustly defames the reputation of another person, whereupon it may be a criminal matter, or at least a tort ?

Maybe a flimsy defence would be that the libellor believes it to be true ?

Joe

Dutton! get ready scomo has had a bad weak week, its you turn on the merry go round

Paul,

Perhaps you could use your vast legal brian to indicate what criminal law could have been broken? Put up or shut up.

Secondly, given that there has been a litany of Coalition MPs referred to the police for "potential crimes" with zero findings of crimes committed, this is yet another Labor Farce.

Thirdly, given that no Labor or greens MP's have stood aside without overwhelming evidence this is rank hypocrisy.

Shadow, I am not the one claiming to be a legal Eagle, you previously claimed some formal "letters" in relation to the law, did you not? Something to do with your days at uni.

In this case you seem not to be exercising your vast legal brian? What's that, perhaps you got it from Monty Pythons 'Life of Brian' Comprehension a problem for you again, "A NSW police spokesperson" that is who I am quoting. Want to try again? The undisputed fact is the document used by Taylor was doctored, that's not in dispute. There is a reasonable probability that Taylor himself, or one of his staff did the doctoring. But you never know maybe ScumO had fixed it up to get Taylor off the hook, with his bin toting copper mate.

BTW, why is a federal minister of the crown using taxpayer funds to run a smear campaign on a local government political opponent. The jerk should be doing what we pay him for, not that he does that very well. Taylor is one of the most incompetent ministers in the Morrison government, and that's saying something!

Paul,

As expected you have bugger all, and admit that you are once again spouting vacuous BS.

Again, you misquote me as 2 years of commercial law within a BCom degree does not give me any legal letters behind my name nor have I ever claimed that it does.

As for using government funds for smearing the opposition, firstly this is a frequent tactic employed by Labor and the Greens who spent $ms of taxpayer money on phoney senate inquiries that had no purpose other than to try and show up the government.

Shadow, once again you have misrepresented the truth claiming the Taylor matter, quoting you; "a moron would know is not criminal". Yet to quote the police spokesperson; "the state crime command’s financial crimes squad had launched Strike Force Garrad to determine if any CRIMINAL OFFENCES had been committed."

Fess up Shadow, even a moron, or a half baked lawyer without "letters", would take the word of the police as to this being a criminal matter or not. Was the police spokesperson wrong, lying, what then?

Paul,

I do accept the police officer's word that an investigation has been instigated at the request of Labor asking whether a criminal act was committed as the police are obliged to do.

What I don't see is any indication from the police that they consider this in any way to be a criminal offense.

Dreyfus has previously initiated 8 such investigations into potential criminal activity by the coalition with zero criminal activity being detected. This looks like being No 9.

That should be simple enough even for any moronic half baked illiterate.

Nah Shadow riggle all you like, your big cheese ScumO might take it upon himself to stick his nose into police and/or judicial matters based on the 'Sulo' bin legal principle, mates look after mates, but it don't wash here. It is the police who determine if a matter is worthy of criminal investigation, not the complainant. This should be easy for even someone of your intellect, Daffy Duck could understand that, hopefully you can to.

"Labor asking whether a criminal act was committed as the police are obliged to do." No, you are making things up, the police are not obliged to "investigate" every complaint made to them by the general public or the Labor party for that matter. Frivolous and vexatious complaints are not investigated. Nor do the number or nature of previous complaints have any bearing on a new complaint, there is no 8 strikes and no more complaints will be accepted from you rule.

Okay, I accept you have no legal knowledge what so ever. This is a YouTube of SM defending Angus Taylor in court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJuXIq7OazQ

Once again your incoherent post is a pile of bollocks. (what is riggle?)

The police are not obliged to investigate every complaint by the general public, but requests from the shadow (and former) Attorney General Mark Dufus are almost never ignored. That the last 8 "investigations" requested by Dufus produced no indication of a crime shows that this is a publicity stunt that even someone of your limited IQ should be able to grasp.

I agree that there is no limit on how many publicity stunts Labor can compel the police to perform.