After watching Four Corners Ch 2 ABC, last night on the protests in Hong Kong that Mary Lamb is a wolf in sheep's clothing, doing the work of the Communist Party of Beijing. It would appear the police Force are supporters of the Communist regime and it is their duty to beat into submission peaceful protesters so they submit to the communist slavery line. Free thought and expression in opposition to the Mainland rule is to be stamped out. These students have learned from western democracies what freedom is and its benefits to personal fulfilment and well being. It is obvious the Chinese Communist party are trying to infiltrate sources of learning in Western democracies to subject students to the socialist position.

You are probably right, Josephus. The myth of resistance to some extradition arrangement no longer exists, having been removed by Lam - who is a puppet of Bejiing. It was always about democracy, which is really futile, or will be by 2047, unless China moves in before then.

Dear ttbn,

The protestors in Hong Kong are basically fighting for freedom from China. Democracy can of course be seen as part of that but it is principally freedom they are fighting for. To say they are only standing for a democratic political system politicises the crisis to the advantage of the Chinese Communist Party.

All true and terrible, but can we be confident that this is not the same here?

Suppose the good people of Biloela go out and demand freedom and independence from Australia and its oppressive migration policies - would they not face brutal oppression by policemen that are loyal to the Australian regime?

You obviously don't understand democracy Yuyutsu. In a democracy every one has a say, but then everyone must obey the decision of the majority.

Under your definition the people of my district could decide our speed limits are ridiculous, & set their own at 200 Miles per hour, & drive everywhere at that speed.

I have not heard of a definitive poll of Biloela people to confirm the media/activist claim that everyone in the town want these people to stay. It sounds very much like more lefty false news to me.

Food for thought: In the not too distant future we might also be fighting for freedom from China. Especially if Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business community keep selling off the country to mainland China.

Ttbn,

China will move in by 2047 ? They will move in well before October 1st, their national day, the 70th anniversary of the Communist revolution. In fact, they will want it all done and dusted well before October 1st. I.e., October 1st, 2019.

So it's inevitable that they will move in: maybe their tanks will occupy all of the city intersections, by the end of this week, or next week at the latest.

Remember Tien An Men in 1989.

Joe

Dear Loudmouth,

Can you also tell us the date when they will move into Australia? Basically the enemy is already inside the gate but if you can give us an exact date that would be good to know as well.

no wonder our Chinese cashed universities are so bent on preventing free speach.They will continue to build thousands of new coal fired power stations, dumb down our young and then laugh at the West's stupidity.

Dear runner,

This is all part of ScuMo's grand plan for Australia's Chinese future.

Misopinionated,

Is that supposed to be clever ? An exact date ? Otherwise what, you'll throw a tanty ?

I think China is moving towards a highly-educated, totalitarian state, with a levelling-off population (perhaps peaking by 2050), which won't need vast hordes of labourers for its work-force, or even a particularly big army to carry out aggressive acts against its neighbours, over the next twenty years. It has the means now to buy off many small and/or poor countries in our region, and to set up military bases there.

It's a longer game than a child may have the patience for, Misopinionated. But I think that China will act much more aggressively within the tenure of Xi Jin Ping, say in the next five years. It may come out on top of its trade war with the US, given that Trump has bullied pretty much every country and not won much for the US economy - China has too many cards up its sleeve. So its invasion of Australia will be step-by-step across the region, and perhaps in the next twenty years. Sorry I can't be more specific than that.

More urgently, of course, I am pessimistic that China will 'act' very, very soon in Hong Kong, perhaps this week.

Joe

I am also concerned that the Chinese Communist
Party according to some political commentators
prefers violence to perceived weakness.
I dread that Hong Kong might become another
Tiananmen Square.

Now hanging over Hong Kong as
the protests seem to be escalating is whether
Beijing is prepared to crush the protests
with force or whether the recent threats are
simply bluster - intended to spook the protestors.

Hi there TTBN...

As usual, you're pragmatic approach of analyzing Bejing's barely concealed intent, to remove all democracy from the subjects of HKG sooner rather than later, is spot on, I reckon.

And despite all the assurances they gave Great Britain, and the population of HKG, post-1997, they'll do precisely what they wish to do, and in a time frame that suits them. Anyway who'll stop them, who's capable of stopping them, only the United States, and why would they bother?

Dear Hasbeen,

«You obviously don't understand democracy Yuyutsu»

Democracy is a particular system of management, whereby people within a group have a certain say, etc.

BTW, we do not have a democracy in Australia, but I digress.

«In a democracy every one has a say, but then everyone must obey the decision of the majority.»

Aha, there lies the problem: it is not "everyone", nor the majority of everyone - it is only those who are arbitrarily deemed by the group itself to be under its jurisdiction and then only the majority of some of them (such as humans who are over 18 and are not imprisoned, etc.).

It doesn't really matter how a given group of people chooses to arrange its internal affairs: if they want an absolute monarch then let them have an absolute monarch, if they prefer the rule of Ayatollahs then let them have their Ayatollahs; and if they prefer a kind of the democracy then let them have that kind of democracy, but if you care to be decent, act morally and be any better than China, then first you need the consent of the people involved to be part of your group. This free consent was never asked for nor given, neither by the people of Hong Kong nor by the people of Australia.

«Under your definition the people of my district could decide our speed limits are ridiculous, & set their own at 200 Miles per hour, & drive everywhere at that speed.»

The people of your district ought to be able to decide whether they prefer to drive at 200 Miles per hour or to belong to the state of Australia, along with all the advantages and disadvantages that go with it. Were they ever given that choice?

«I have not heard of a definitive poll of Biloela people to confirm the media/activist claim that everyone in the town want these people to stay.»

Neither did I - that was a hypothetical example whose purpose was to look at whether the Australian regime would behave better than the Chinese.

Dear Mr. Opinion,

It is not the Chinese that we should fear, but rather their totalitarian way of life. Should you really care who is beating you? Only that it hurts!

Dear Yuyutsu,

It's obvious that you do not come from a humanities background but do you really need to advertise it.

Chinese communist culture is similar to secular humanism. They cheat, lie and ignore truth as long as they save face.

In the two existing threads about this subject I warned the protesters they may find the very thing they fight for lost forever
Freedom
It is now known the head of Honk Kong, the woman they protest about would leave if she could
I think, honestly police know, and fear China may crush the demonstrations
And too know they could stop that, if they stopped the protesters over reaching
China, not Hong Kong, could not care less about freedom

Joe,

You might be right: they could move in anytime, the totally untrustworthy mob they are. I was just giving the benefit of the date, old softy that I am.

o sung wu,

Nice of you to say so. There is, of course, no way in the wide world that a Communist dictatorship can be trusted with anything.

Hasbeen,

True. Many Australians no longer understand democracy, or they no longer want it, preferring as they do mob rule and childish shouty shouty.

I've noticed on the news that the protesters are becoming more violent which I think is the signal to the Chinese Communist Party to send in the troops to prevent further violence and destruction. It's a traditional Chinese remedy to re-balance the world bringing order and restoring yin-yang and idea of One China.

The Chinese have recently bought the 17,000 acres across the river from me. It has many agricultural industries including thousands of acres of river flat fully irrigated farm land, extensive green & shade houses, & some good grazing land.

Some areas are subject to flood in extreme years, but it also has a couple of thousand acres of high land, not much good for agriculture, which will make a great housing estate beside the river.

Do you reckon I should start studying Mandarin Joe, or am I too old to bother.

Just a question, why would the Chinese bother buying all the land they are, if they had thoughts of invading us? With the trillions of US dollars they now have, they can simply buy the place, if they want it, & we let them.

Unless they see it as a useful way of reducing their population, & ours, any shooting conflict with us would be damaging a huge part of this country they already own.

Yuyutsu as I said you obviously don't understand democracy.

Dear Yuyutsu,
It's obvious that you do not come from a humanities background but do you really need to advertise it.
Posted by Mr Opinion

Obviously I don't come from a humanities background either, & I am very proud of having avoided that stupidity. Hell if I did I might be spouting the sort of rubbish Opinionated does.

Dear Hasbeen,

One of the reasons China might give to justify an invasion of Australia is to protect its economic interests. Japan used a similar reason to justify its invasion of colonial SE Asia viz to protect its source of natural resources. The more it owns, the more it has to protect, and subsequently the greater the justification for invading Australia. It's the politicians, bureaucrats and business leaders who have put us in this position. Trump might be the oddest president in US history but he definitely knows not to let China get a foot in door to the extent that Australia has let it.

Dear Hasbeen,

The fact that you don't come from a humanities background explains why you know very little about anything outside of vocational and commonplace activities. When it comes to topics on history, archaeology, sociology, anthropology, etc., etc., etc., you would be best to leave it to those with knowledge in these areas. A good listener is appreciated just as must as a good advisor.

Dear Hasbeen,

«Just a question, why would the Chinese bother buying all the land they are, if they had thoughts of invading us?»

Perhaps to support their future invasion in their long-term pipeline?

I used to think that it is a case of Chinese individuals wishing to keep their hard-earned savings away from the claws of their communist regime, also to have a place to eventually escape to.

I have no problem at all with such freedom-loving Chinese people, but I am starting to suspect whether there is a controlling hand behind this. Where this is found to be the case, the corresponding land should be confiscated. Also, for all future land purchases, a standard condition of land-registration should be a declaration that the new owner has no ties whatsoever with the Chinese Communist Party.

At least I'm not a product of a brain washing academia, who are probably looking forward to a communist take over, misguided fools that they are.

When I worked in manufacturing industry there was a young communist Chinese who worked during the day as a welder, and at night as an office cleaner. He had disembarked off a Chinese cargo ship and hoped to raise enough money to buy a house in Australia. He would never talk about the communist Party, because they were taught to respect their Government and be willing to die for it. This is the sentiments of the mainland students here in Australia, they will conflict with violence against the Hong Kong students. Communist Socialism is won by violence, not by reason against Democratic strongholds.

A dictatorship is built on fear and China has
perfected this system of deterrence. Its government
has countless ways of reminding its citizens that
it is able and willing to use force. Bans on leaving
the country, arbitrary arrests and even torture.

Yet currently what the world is witnessing is that
China's usual threats are not having any effect on
the predominantly young Hong Kong protesters who have
been taking to the streets for 10 weeks now.

Neither police brutality nor mass arrests have
deterred the protesters. The people seem to feel
that they have nothing to lose - that's why China's
threats are having no effect. The people interviewed
seem to believe that this is their last chance at fighting
for freedom.

In reality Hong Kong has a lot to lose. An invasion of Chinese
troops would mean the city would cease to be a financial
hub and the freedom people now have would be scrapped.

But then, Beijing would also suffer. Hong Kong is the
global financial gateway for Chinese companies and
images of carnage in Hong KOng streets would ruin
China's image and reputation for years.

Moreover - possible economic sanctions would further
exacerbate the country's economic woes and weaken its
position in its trade dispute with the US.

Of course nobody could stop China if it decided to
intervene in HOng Kong. As several leaders from the
Tiananmen Square episode said - "The West Forgets,"
So this time Western democracies should make it
clear to China - that it would pay a huge price for
any intervention. The message should be loud and
clear.

Foxy, I totally agree. Hong Kong is the trading hub of Western democracies. Beijing has a lot too loose if they attack.

Dear Josephus,

Nobody could stop China if they did attack.
That's why Western democracies should make it clear
that China would pay a huge price for an
intervention.

Dear Foxy,

I think they will attack, and soon, well before October 1st., and brutally. Apart from the human cost, Hong Kong will be very seriously damaged as a financial hub when they do, and perhaps hundreds of thousands will try to leave.

What happens there could tip the world economy into recession, especially for China, a new pariah. I'm not hopeful that all of that will improve China's relations with the rest of the world, or deter it from aggressive moves against neighbouring countries.

Love,

Joe

Hi there FOXY...

It's really terrific to see you back with us all. I do sincerely hope your procedure, and hospital visit, went very well and you're on the mend. Take good care of yourself, please.

The Chinese invasion is underway. I saw a group of twenty suspicious Chinese passing the front of my house two days back. Fortunately they stopped at the sands on the beach of the Pacific Ocean. Their progress haltered by an aboriginal sea claim.

But the way was otherwise clear for the assault, since the homeless have been banned from parking along the beach front, forced by council edict to the back blocks, awaiting the conscription call to arms, as the first line of defence against any Chinese communist invasion, specifically not matching a politicians Aldi shopping bag and green bicycle approach to Chinese immigration, Canberra style 2.1.

Dan

Dear Joe,

I sincerely hope that you're wrong about China's
bringing in troops.

But, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You so much for your good wishes.
Everything went well and I'm fine.

As always, your words and concern gives
me wings.

You're a lovely man with a big heart.

In the war that has to come, the last thing we need is millions of hostages in a remote post that cannot be protected.

The West needs to help the people of Hong Kong evacuate, by sea and air, then build their city elsewhere (most sensibly on the northern Philippine coast).

(most sensibly on the northern Philippine coast).
Yuyutsu,
have you established how the Philippinos feel about that ?

Dear Individual,

Obviously the Philippinos need to be contacted first and negotiated with, but they are nice and impoverished people so they will be happy for the money from the purchase of land and the following prosperity that New Hong Kong will bring them.

Individual says.

*...have you established how the Philippinos feel about that ?..,*

Saving democracy has a price...that'll be paid by Australia of course. Open the borders for Hong Kong refugees. They are beautiful worthy people!

Shed a traditional Bob (stupid piss head) Hawk style tear, and....just in the nick of time, another economic downturn avoided, by adding to the calamity of over population.

All praise to the ingenious Political establishment.

Dan

http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/scott-morrison-cool-on-plan-to-offer-safe-haven-from-hong-kong-protests-20190904-p52nr2.html
Remember how*both sides* of Australian politics betrayed West Papua?
Indonesia had no claim, other than it being a former Dutch colony, yet we let them Colonize that county
The link enforces my view we put trade before humanity often

*both sides* of Australian politics betrayed West Papua?
Belly,
I was told by a West Papuan that West Papuan hierarchy was part of the delegations at the meetings about the future of that country. He told me that the Papuans were actually asked if they wanted to become Part of Papua New Guinea or be part of Indonesia. According to him the Papuans voted to become part of Indonesia. i
Incidentally, he told me he remembered when, as a kid in the 50's, he was around when a wealthy American was done in for trying to stir up two tribes so he could film a tribal clash. He said his father told him that the Amercan's heart was ceremoniously consumed.
A bird of Paradise hunter from NZ wrote of his experiences watching cannibalism in the Marind & Kia Kia area in 1929. Some of the older people of the north-western Torres Strait islands still tend to look over their shoulders if the word Tugere (Pap. tribe) is uttered.

Where's Belly ? I'm still waiting for a reply from him.

The link enforces my view we put trade before humanity often
Belly,
Can you put forward an idea that could make society function humanely without trade ?
After all, people demand commodities at a moment's notice nowadays and, yes even in West Papua !