Tell me my Conservative posting companions what is a Conservative
What is your view about Social welfare
Public health care
What would a conservative wish for the homeless
Migration? refugees
Defense, how should we defend this country
I truly want to know others opinions
Public transport should we continue to subsidise it
Education,same question but what about public v private
Tell me what you think a Conservative is, thank you

What's your opinion, Belly? You should not be demanding to know what other people think unless you are prepared to state what you think first. You are as bad as your ally, Foxy.

Dear ttbn,

I have no issues with Belly starting off a discussion with a question. Very Socratic and as a sociologist I would have no qualms doing the same myself.

Your comment tells us a lot about you. Are you just an engineer by any chance? mhaze is and he constantly reminds us that he has a book of everything called the ABS. But according to him we should not believe in Darwin's theory of evolution because Darwin based his premises on his observations instead of getting his facts from you guessed it! the ABS.

Welfare needs a shake-up by sacking the top Brass of Centrelink,
Healthcare is already good in this Country, it's the Hypochondriacs & drug abusers that are sabotaging it !
Homelessness could become a non-issue if people adopted a sense of responsibility & supported a National Service scheme that would take all homeless off the street overnight.
Migration needs to look at individual cases & moral need by Immigration Officers & not be in the hands of Agents whose only interest is profit at the expense of people who can least afford it ! The security of this Nation is massively jeopardised by the present system !
This Country's defence is a matter of everyone & every permanent resident between 18-21 should have to contribute by serving in a National Service for at least 18 months !
Public transport should be subsidised as it is a vital part of a society but it should be basic so it remains affordable.
Education needs the same shock-treatment as Centrelink, sack the top brass. They have failed & should not be tolerated to continue to fail at such huge cost to all of us !
A Conservative should be simply conservative in their expectations & demands from others.
Progressives are exactly the opposite & we can no longer afford them !
Most of all, we need a change of mentality from the gimme, gimme to Can I afford that ?

Dear Belly,

It's wise not to put all your cards on the table
right at the start. Only a person with an IQ of
a fence-post would do that, and
then the game's over before it's even begun.

Anyway, It is much harder to be a progressive than
a conservative.

Why?

Because it's easier to give someone the finger than
a helping hand.

Okay. Enough of the jokes.

Seriously though, to me a true conservative means to
conserve the good parts of Australia and the
Constitution. And, I'm optimistic that they do still
exist and have not yet died out.

Mr. O,

What do my comments tell you about me? You say "a lot", but you don't mention one thing. No, I'm not an engineer, and I've been retired for almost 20 years, and you will never know what my occupation was, so there won't be anything there to help with your assumptions, either.

By the way. You really should address any comments to Belly; it's his thread, not mine.

Dear Foxy,

I think you are talking about conservationists. This thread is about conservatives.

Dear ttbn,

So what you are saying is that you are a nobody.

I think you are talking about conservationists. This thread is about conservatives.
Mr Opinion,
Are you serious? Surely, no-one, not even I, is that thick ? On the other hand, caring does require an ounce of integrity & even just the slightest deficiency can not make one understand the mentality of decency ! Judging by your posts I'd say that age 20 you have time to learn.

Dear Mr Opinion,

A true conservative - protects and insures
stability, prosperity, and good governance.
And in order to achieve these one has to
conserve the best parts of our society and our
Constitution.

As the Oxford Dictionary states to conserve means
to "keep from decay, or destruction.

Dear Foxy,

Which is exactly what I would expect from a conservationist. Whereas, a conservative is someone who has a fixation on maintaining the status quo, resisting change just for the singular purpose of resisting change irrespective of the consequences associated with such resistance. Climate change denialists like Hasbeen, mhaze, individual, Loudmouth, etc are are good examples of a conservative.

Individual,

Never mind.

My husband has just explained what an Asimo
is - it turns out to be a humanoid robot
who can only walk backwards. In other
words - a conservative.

Now I get it.

LOL.

Dear Mr Opinion,

All jokes aside.

Now to be serious.

A conservative used to mean different things to different
people.

My dad was conservative in many areas. As I still am.
I dislike vulgarity. Many people are conservative in certain
areas and progressive in others. We are more individualistic
nowdays. So labelling people is not easy. The term - conservative
has now become politicised. Which is unfortunate. Because
underneath it all - we have to take people as we find them
and not to extremes.

Nigel Farage is described as a conservative. I would say
he's an extremist. As is Mark Latham.

Sir Robert Menzies [no mate of mine] on forming today's Liberal party said if I wanted a Conservative party I would have called it one
Liberalism is far from today's Conservatives
Our resident flea has asked/demanded I answer a question, and wrongly claimed it is my thread, it is all our thread
My wishes will be named, wrongly, Socialism, but in fact are near what Liberalism once was
Never privatise health education power supply welfare, but ensure all operate effectively
No cruel robo debt but end fraud in welfare it thieves from the true needy
That will do for a start

Not sure if I can exactly describe a conservative. I think some woman in America called them deplorables. They have seen through the lying liberal media and the deceitful march through every institution by socialist and Marxist. Many of these deplorables were once union members who believed in hard work and good pay. They know they have been sold out by corporate and Governments elites alike. They are labelled ignorant/racist by the elite facist because they think a baby born with a penis is a boy and a baby born with a vagina a girl. They are labelled ignorant because they know the science is settled on this but not on the numerous failed predictions of the gw thieves and liars. The deplorables don't care about skin colour to a large degree unlike the elite who are obsessed with race politics. The deplorables champion women who are mothers and men who are fathers. The deplorables know that the lying liberal media only report on things that fit their narrative rather than facts.

And of course the "deplorables" tolerate all opinions,
they don't call people who disagree with them by labels.
Or use attacks as a means of defense. They are after
all deeply religious and take the Bible literally.
After all it is easier to give someone the finger
than lend a helping hand.

who can only walk backwards.
Foxy,
That's odd because the only time this Nation has taken one step forward & two back is when we had Labor Govts. We're still suffering the consequences now from Goaf's outfit 50 years ago.
Want an example ? Just read posts by the grandchildren such as Mr Opinion et al of parents from that period !

Runner in my opinion, and we both know that may be wrong
You represent everything I see wrong in a Conservative [the extreme type]
You make my case in that post
And your twisted hate and spite filled type of Christianity confirm, to me at least,
I do think some Conservatives are not far right
But it is getting harder to pick them out
Now for those like you, it is hard to determine a lefty from and true Social democratic, as lies labels not remotely related to truth get tossed around

I have posted this quote on another thread and think it is quite apt;

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:

There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

And in comes SR describing a socialist/communist system, & calling it a description of a conservative.

So there is your answer Belly, a conservative is not a lying grub lefty.

Hey Belly,
I'm not exactly sure what the true definition of a conservative is;
But I identify myself as being more as a conservative simply because I do not identify as a progressive.
I see progressives as 'useful idiots' ignorantly helping to forward a world government agenda that I oppose.

That said however I may be shown that I support a number of things that others who may themselves identify as conservatives typically do not support.

"What is your view about Social welfare"

I believe society is best seved with a mixture of socialism and capitalism;
I won't support either models outright as I believe both have inherent flaws that only the other model can solve.
- So the challenge is to take the positive aspects of both models and refine a system that also adresses the flaws or negatives is each to create a better and fairer model that's in everyone's best inetersts, whilst learning from the mistakes of the past. -
I also believe in a handup not a handout.

We have capitalist healthcare (private hospitals) and a socialist healthcare base-level (public hospitals)
We have capitalist education (private schools) and a socialist education base-level (public schools)
The socialist base-levels provide a standard for everyone, whist the capitalist one allows for a better service than that provided by the base-level to those prepared to pay for it.

The system is flawed and we need socialist base-level jobs system (double dole for full time work)
- To counteract the cost of these other subsidised services.
You address the flaw of capitalism - the person who does not get the job -
- And create a new system that embraces the idea of 'the job you have when you don't have a job'

"Public health care"
Yes, I support public heathcare, but I don't support people abusing it.

[Cont]
- Re Healthcare;
I think maybe there's a case for a co-payment for 'personal responsibility'
That is, when someone does stupid things that put themselves at risk of harm or things that have a negative or detrimental effect on their own health, other taxpayers shouldn't necessarily have to pay for their recklessness or aloofness.

"What would a conservative wish for the homeless"
I'm not sure, but I'd wish for a 'workable solution' and then I'd figure it out myself.
I can create a blueprint for a 'Job you have when you don't have a job' system.
I'm sure I can do the same with homes.

Migration? refugees
- Within reason, and so long as it doesn't negatively and detrimentally affect the integrity of the nation as a whole.
And so long as they understand that this is our country, and it's their job to integrate into the country they come into, and not our job to integrate into the country they came from.

"Defense, how should we defend this country"
From internal enemies or external enemies?

Internally, an understanding that democracy can be weaponised, and that we can be conquered and lose our soverignty via globalism.
Externally, submarines with nuclear strike capability, and anti ballistic missiles.
Generally, less reliance on global trade and greater capacity for local trade.

"Public transport should we continue to subsidise it"
Don't know, but we most certainly should never have sold it in the first place.
- Now the idea takes too much from the taxpayer -

(Cloward and Piven scenarios, - run into the ground and made a liability which made a case for sale and privatision)

"Tell me what you think a Conservative is, thank you"

Dunno Belly, I'm an individual, my own person and not part of a 'gang';
As such I try to look at each and every issue on it's own merits.

I did not start this thread to snipe at Conservatives
And not to promote my side of politics
However some self interest is in all our posts
New Conservatives are taking voters we barely had away from Labor
We will not win them back by holding our breath and stamping our feet
Waiting for a recession to drive them back in our arms will not do it
My side must redefine if it wants to win an election or pamper minorities that have more,far more,enemies than voters
Yet I yearn for the days when voters knew a lie from the truth
I still watch with interest what those who are or have been brave enough to tell me what they think about Conservatives

Yet I yearn for the days when voters knew a lie from the truth
Belly,
They do, isn't it obvious to you ?

Dear individual,

Like the one which says the Coalition are better managers of the economy?

Dear Hasbeen,

Rubbish.

Perhaps reproducing the whole piece might assist you.

Quote;

Frank Wilhoit

There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc.

There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation.

There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely.

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:

There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.

For millennia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.

As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.

Cont..

Cont..

So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

Then the appearance arises that the task is to map “liberalism”, or “progressivism”, or “socialism”, or whateverthefuckkindofstupidnoise-ism, onto the core proposition of anti-conservatism.

No, it a’n’t. The task is to throw all those things on the exact same burn pile as the collected works of all the apologists for conservatism, and start fresh. The core proposition of anti-conservatism requires no supplementation and no exegesis. It is as sufficient as it is necessary. What you see is what you get:

The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

End quote.

You must be right SR. There are no alternate out groups in socialists/communist countries. They have all been mudded or sent to the gulag. Keeps them off the street, or writing bulldust posts or letters to the editor.

You certainly must be given the crown for bulldust SR. No one does it better than you.

Dear Hasbeen,

You write;

“You certainly must be given the crown for bulldust SR. No one does it better than you.”

Unlike you I made every attempt to delineate what were my words and what were those of Frank Wilhoit. I'm pretty certain there was nothing in what I have personally said in this thread could be adjudged bulldust or otherwise unless you were determined to piss in the wind.

So why don't you tell us where Mr Wilhoit has got in wrong rather than just flap your gums as you have wont to do.

Mr. Opinion,

No, I am not saying I'm a nobody. Employment doesn't define most people, and it's sad that apparently you think it does define you. I note on another thread that you are keen to find out what other people do or did for a living.

I suspect that you don't have a job, given the time you spend here. You say you are a sociologist, but when you were asked by a poster sometime ago what you actually did for a living you fudged the question. I suspect that you are very young, and very unemployed, as are many, if not most, students who go in for the humanities these days. Sociology! About as useful as tits on a bull.

Still waiting for your explanation on what my objection to people asking questions instead 'says about' me. I'm not holding my breath.

I don't know Hasbeen I think I can give steely a run for his money
Being a lefty communist Socialist grub as many here think,
Let me see look at Poland, currently in the hands of super conservatives and worshipping Hitler
Trying indeed to wipe that country's war history of helping him away
Thinking as I do social welfare is a needed thing, but waste.fraud never will be, makes me the devil to some
Wanting every child, in the whole world, to have full education, but not religious indoctrination damns me again
How about my completely radical thought everyone should have a job, paid properly working for the community instead of the dole
Red rager for sure
Health in my view not profit should drive that system so make it free [pay for it by taxing us, even billionaires] to all
Got to go latest edition of Pravda has arrived

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/a-dangerous-cycle-of-conspiracy-theories-circulate-around-donald-trump-20190812-p52g4x.html
I would not be stupid enough to claim all conservatives are like this
Or that some Democrats are not just as bad
But I do claim America, increasingly, is like this, remote from truth further still from understanding
And easy meat for such as Trumps foolishness

Like the one which says the Coalition are better managers of the economy?
Steele Redux,
Yes, I don't know all their names but I do know that the greater number of them were aware of that at the recent Federal election.

The question has not been addressed by many
Yet Remains valid what do Conservatives Stand for
What are they against
What do they think about recent statements about China being a threat
What are the reasons for low wages, is it good or bad for our economy

I doubt that most Conservatives think like I do but my personal view is that Cina is being rather hypocritical, many wages are only low because most wages are too high. High wages, particularly public service salaries are ruining our economy. This prevents revenue - making industry from making a comeback.
We should freeze basic wages & gradually reduce the high non-productive salaries by 50 %.
That would re-start local manufacturing & prosperity. Taxing the crap out of people is not a sustainable economy.

indy is the pension too high
Are you aware business would be pleased to both lower wages to compete with all Asia China and more
And that lowing the living standards of increasing numbers is a result of low wages
I am proud not to be anything like a modern conservative
Yes, some wages went too high, as in some civil construction, it drove permanent jobs away, and gave casuals those jobs
All around me in this village workers are on basic minimum awards, and struggling

Yes, some wages went too high, as in some civil construction, it drove permanent jobs away, and gave casuals those jobs
All around me in this village workers are on basic minimum awards, and struggling
Belly,
Well explained !

Thanks indy, yesterday [I am not looking for such things] a woman heard about my past work life
She[barely known to me] told this story
She works in a fast food shop, was being underpaid [it is a low income job]
She contacted fair work AUSTRALIA
They got her back pay
Her boss sacked her
For being drunk on every shift
She does not ever drink
Nothing I or fair work, can do for her she is casual

Belly,
Her Boss needs to be exposed on social media ! Why fair work is not backing her is a disgrace.

Indy frankly, but honestly I know every trick in the book to bring him in to line
Just as frankly fair work usually, get the job done
Fast food right up to quality restaurants, sees wage theft
A casual, even if they win a case, can be sacked with these words [a lie but you can not prove it] we area bit slack no work for a while we will ring you
I could direct her to take him to court, could even stand as a friend of the court
But she will never get her job back and keep it
Indy, shaned by it, but know a lass on the single parents pay, she was hand picked
BECAUSE she is on that benefit, she works for ten dollars an hour, andsome times, honestly, gets her pay in out of date tinned food

"Indy frankly, but honestly I know every trick in the book to bring him in to line"

I hope all those tricks are legal Belly...

AC tell me if it was you in trouble would you care if it was legal
Say one of five called back,without pay, to work over Christmas to get an order out, true it took place
Or the my door is always open bosses who verbally abuse workers daily
They exist
In the mentioned case she can not win, the boss is a grub, his staff afraid of him, nearly as much as being out of work in a country town
My every trick in the book comment
It references I know how to shut him down, legally close the doors and get nothing for his workers
Accept unemployment benefits
Best, after explaining, to do nothing
A day must come when workers in this service industry get fair wages but that day is not here
Not one of them is in a union and working for them is not a priority until they start to help themselves

Belly,
Sounds to me this woman needs help, so better start opening your can of tricks quick-smart !
Sounds like the unions haven't been interested either. I'm certain if they help her she'll join.

Hey Belly,
Well, if someone were to take a squared off mattock handle to his kneecaps I assume he might think twice about ripping off those in his charge who are beneath him in the future...

- But technically I'm probably not supposed to say things like this as it may be seen as advocating criminal acts.

Probably better to simply expose and shame his actions publicly on social media.

Actually, I'll go with 'shut the bastards down'.
Too bad for the persons job, but best this person doesn't operate a business if they can't treat their staff fairly and remunerate them as required.

Make them repay 10 times the amount they stole if caught.
- Payable to the employee they ripped off -

That way the employee can say - go ahead rip me off then idiot, it's your funeral and my payday.

Why can't the world figure out how to foolproof ideas?

Armchair critic unemployment somewhat melowed me
On moving here in the very late 70,s I for a time, was unemployed
It hurt it nearly killed me, see it was my job to be the only income earner for my family of five plus me
I was subjected to the dole bludger thing, even by little old ladys who did not know me
I found jobs hard dirty work, but shone and kept them
Then my road worker days saw me fully employed
So in much the same position as I once was,some even low lifes on social security,putting them out of work?
My friends dislike the new me, the one that wants social justice but demands an end to fraud.
Thinks subsidised work of benefit to the community should take the place of the dole
But yes I could shut the bloke down, maybe bankrupt him
What of the other food sellers near here doing the same? or the hundreds on this highway

Belly,
Any news on the woman ? Have you contacted anyone with a bit of pull so to speak ?

Indy we all fall for a con
In part I did, yes she was underpaid, yes her boss is a grub, and yes many on this road are like him
BUT got another visit, seems someone robbed her house, while she was out
AND while I was too, not rich, gave her 50 bucks, she moved out
Bloke across the road told me she told him the same story, he gave her twenty
Indy would rather be conned than see her go hungry
PS seems a union official [not mine] that has coverage of such industries will be doing wages book inspections here and along this road starting next week
Hope to have a cup of coffee with him/her

Belly,
I'm feel for you on this. I have first-hand experience in having good will taken for granted & exploited.