Dear Big Nana,

Linda Burney stated "Initiatives developed on
the ground by the people, for the people, have
a far greater likelihood of working. It's a
model for self-determination."

So to answer your earlier question - the reason
as to why certain communities fail - must be
because they have government programs that just
don't work.

The problem is that these well-funded programs
are difficult to implement locally because they are
not targeted to local conditions by local people.
Communities vary greatly across Australia from
community to community.

Also we need to question why governments shut down
successful programs that are run by Indigenous people
in their communities?

Programs such as - community
health. Language programs that include Elders passing
on language and culture. And creches and youth programs
in the Northern Territory.

The Mutitjulu community in NE WA - took their case to
court for the right to be active in their own community
and they won.

There are many successful Indigenous communities that
are run by Indigenous people - those in Bourke, Billard -
WA, Murdi Paaki, just to mention a few.

Noel Pearson points out - this should not be a case of
one side reinforcing victimhood and the other denying
victimhood. There are true deniers (Windschuttle)
and also defenders of their settler heritage (Blainey).

Noel Pearson tells us that any successful case must transcend
the natural political and cultural polarities of
Australian society and seek and seize political
bipartisanship.

This can only happen if Australians faced with a
Constitutional proposition are led by the better angels
of their nature.

Dear Loudmouth,

All I have done is quote from early explorer's records who were first hand witnesses to what structures were there when they first made their way over the land.

My other source is an archaeological study which featured on Catalyst and confirmed what those early explorers had seen by examining the physical evidence in front of them.

Why is this so damned hard for you to get your head around. I know it is challenging your long held beliefs but I'm sorry, if they do not have higher status to either the science nor the historical record.

Get over it mate. When faced with evident most normal people adjust their thinking, however you seem to be digging your heels in with almost fanatical determination. Why do you think that is so?

The explorer George Grey wrote of the Aboriginal settlements he found near the entrance to the Murchison River

"...two native villages or, as the men called them, towns. - the huts of which they were composed differed from those in southern districts, in being much larger, more strongly built, and very nicely plastered over the outside with clay, and clods of turf, so although now uninhabited, they were evidently intended for fixed places of residence. This again showed a marked difference between the habits of natives in this part of Australian and the south-western portions of the continent; for these superior huts, well-marked roads, deeply sunk wells, and extensive warran grounds, all spoke of a large and comparatively speaking, resident population."

http://www.wanowandthen.com/explorers.html (well down the page).

Is Mise,

To fill out your quote:

"1727 : Zeewick

"At about 7:30pm the Zeewick (commanded by Jan Steyns) struck Half Moon Reef off the Abrolhos Islands on its way to Batavia. Initially the seas were too rough to launch the longboats but when they had calmed somewhat a camp was set up on a nearby island (Gun Island).

"After the initial wreck 12 men set off for Batavia but are never seen again. Those that survived 9 long months on an island close to the wreck site built a boat from the remains of the ship and sailed to safety (although 6 more men died on the way north). The Zeewick was the last VOC ship to be lost on the West Australian coast. The wreck was discovered in 1952 and ten years later a cannon was raised and is now on display in Geraldton (Chapman Road.)

"These are just some of the known survivors of ship wrecks along the West Australian coast. Most of these happened on a stretch of coast between Geraldton and Shark Bay.

"In this area the Nanda people lived. The Nanda are unusual among all Aboriginal tribes. When British settlers arrived they found a tribe that was lighter skinned than other Aborigines, where blue eyes were found in the population, blonde hair in adults was much more common as was baldness. This tribe was also taller than was the norm and their language differed considerably from that of surrounding tribes. There was also a tradition of building more permanent dwellings and of re-planting food plants. The tribe was much less concerned with the 'hunter-gatherer' style of living that other Aboriginal tribes.

"George Grey wrote of the Aboriginal settlements he found near the entrance to the Murchison River: etc."

Make what you will of it.

// you are overlooking the fact that the people with the absolutely worst outcomes in health, education and welfare are those still living on land they never lost or had taken from them.//

Worse outcomes applies to ALL people living in remote communities, black and white. People living in the more affluent suburbs of Sydney have a life expectancy 10 years greater than those living in the western regions of the state. Could it be the air they breath, or the availability of health services.

"A shorter life and a greater chance of dying from cancer - that is the fate of regional Australians compared to their city counterparts." ABC News.

Quick get everyone out the bush and into the cities.

Obviously many of the elderly contributors who were brought up on 'The Dreamtime; Australian Aboriginal Myths in Paintings (1965)' by the Englishman Charlies Mountford and dutiful illustrated by the lovely white lady Ainsile Roberts, which was standard school text on Aboriginals in the 1960's. The well meaning Mountford and Roberts cast Aboriginal people as simple primitive child like folk, capable of only the most basic of tasks. This kind of fallacy convinced many children of the period, how backward Aboriginal people were, and obviously that myth has stayed with some of the 60's kids to this day.