Belly: I wanted to include the 200 years here as a reminder once lost future generations may not see the loss of freedom and nationality as bad

I suppose that's what the Soviet Union was aiming for. Any dissident's were eliminated. The Soviet Union was one big happy family. Or else.

One World Government. Very, very bad idea.

It all comes back to man's nature- is he good or bad- virtuous or not.

Liberal Arts is the Art Of Learning To Be Free (Virtuous) (in the Hobbe's not the Locke sense). Schopenhauer and Nietzche say interesting things here too where they talk about Will, Good and Evil, etc, etc.

If he is bad he can't even manage himself let alone the world.

Some are more virtuous than others- but who and how to judge- I have some ideas but this is homework... I support traditionalism.

Aristotle's book The Politics discusses good and bad government- this gives a small insight into the extremely complex issues of "mass government" and "mass institutions". Aristotle doesn't seem to address the complex issues of "competing good" and scales of government and juresdiction. Aristotle's book being sooo boring is a good way of convincing people of the fallacy of super-massive government- the reason it's boring is because people are not supposed to think in such terms.

Look at Robert Burns- he seemed to struggle to manage himself- yet some look to him as an inspiration for world government through communism.

Carl Jung said "you can't understand the mind by just studying sickness".

As Aristotle says we need to try to build virtue into the community but it cannot be forced- as communists and their friends seek to do today- in fact all liberals seek to do this- both social and economic.

One way to get around the problems of mass government is to remove the mass- there are too many people in the world.

But there are always those with power attempting to get more at the communities expense.

As Confucius says "the community is like a family". When it gets too big it stops being like a family... and becomes a tyranny.

In chaos theory there is the transition of an ordered system to a chaotic one- societies can be like this- but some thrive on the misery of others. Socrates said sane people need to work together.

jayb ok no defense in fact agree
But can you see some will never agree with us
Soviet Union at its birth was not seen by many as the failure it became
Some even spyed on their own country in its service
Say it was our job, yours and mine, to sell the idea
A promise of an end to wars,wipe out terrorism, control birth rates,house every one,
Put any thing you like on the list, because we both know once achieved no promise would be kept
Then consider a 200 year plan to sell/introduce it
Say multiculturalism, not integration
Open door to refugee/migrant intake
Can we ever be sure that plan is not in place right now

Belly: Then consider a 200 year plan to sell/introduce it. Say multiculturalism, not integration. Open door to refugee/migrant intake.
Can we ever be sure that plan is not in place right now.

Oh you can be sure. That was the purpose of the EU

I was very much for the EU when it started but what I thought it was not what it turned out to be. What it turned into has driven me away completely.

The only people in favour of a world government are those who think they'll be running the world government

One world-government is not a new idea, all Utopias ( = Dystopias) yearn for it. Islam, for example, is quite open in its aspiration that all the world will one day be Muslim. Any ideology which purports to have the Perfect Blueprint (never to be altered) assumes something the same.

Still, as Kant concluded, from the crooked branches of mankind, nothing straight can be made. Imperfection and diversity will always be with us. The task surely is to try to make the world a better place ? Not perfect - that way lies fascism in all its many guises - but better than we found it.

Joe