The blowhards and hot heads from Pauline Hanson's One Nation and Cory Bernardi's Australian Conservative parties make great play with policies aimed at stopping the few refugees/asylum seekers arriving in Australian waters by boat. They continually refer to these poor unfortunate people as "illegals" and "queue jumping economic refugees".
There is a much more serious problem of illegal immigration with more than 64,000 people overstaying visas in Australia. Despite this massive number of illegals arriving by air, the above two political parties seem to have no direct policy to combat the most serious of immigration problems.

Here is a link which details the issue;

http://www.smh.com.au/public-service/more-than-64000-people-overstaying-visas-in-australia-20170718-gxddpj.html


Why is that? Is it religion, is it colour, is it where these people come from, or is it some other reason that sees such a disparity in immigration policy from both One Nation and The Australian Conservatives.

Dear Paul,

There's some amazing facts about this issue.

The following link explains:

http://visaaustralia.com.au/immigration-news/overstaying-australian-visa/

How many of the visa over stayers get free housing, medical, lawyers, dental work, and money potentially for life and can bring relatives here.

Housing is given preferentially even if there is a needy Australian citizen the refugee would get the house.

Visa over stayers can be put on a plane and returned to their home country.

The majority if not all of visa over stayers would be self supporting not taxpayer supported.

Foxy Quote "There's some amazing facts about this issue"

** Sorry but there are NO amazing facts in your link. **

** Maybe you have a very low threshold for what can be classified as amazing. **

Please copy 4 of those amazing facts here, let everyone determine how amazing they are?
__________________________________________________
Paul1405 Liar
"Officials could not say how much was spent in attempts to locate visa overstayers in the community, but a total of $72.4 million was spent on compliance activities."

** So what welfare for lifers cost billions, also remember the refugee riots in detention centers have probably cost far more than that. **

"The department stated that it was a fair estimate that 20,000 were also working illegally. That's at least 20,000 illegal overstayers taking Australian jobs."

** Incompetent public servants, possible that the jobs they are doing lazy Australian do not want to do, Government LE problem. **

Paul you I see have got a virus in the thread already
Yes you are right, and yes some feed on lies and pure hate when talking about this subject, stand by for heaps
Here we will differ, but at least not because I wish to rant
My HONEST view is more and more are falling for the hatred of difference that is racism'
And that to defeat that hate and Tory party's that both introduce it and feed on it, we need to find better ways
The Malaysian solution was a better[cruel but better]way
Over stayers are far bigger in numbers, address that issue
But Australians need assurances that door is not open to every one
Brutal? yes but stop the drift toward the insanity of racism

I don't buy the argument that these overstayers are economic neutral or even an economic positive, as some would suggest. The long term overstayers have oddly enough an Australian drivers licence, Medicare card, a tax file number, some might have a card for the local council library, even been able to join the local gym etc etc as "Andrew" our Chinese/Malay friend was able to do. All normal stuff, the 12,000 long term overstayers most likely have legitimate employment, Andrew did, and it was a well paid technical job. Realistically that is 12,000 jobs not available to legitimate members of the community. Where are these legits? On the dole, underemployed some would be supported by the state.
The short to medium term overstayers often work at underpaid cash in hand jobs, paying no tax, but availing themselves of some of the benefits the taxpayer provides.
Then there is the moral argument of queue jumping and law breaking, and of course the criminal aspect, those that overstay for purely criminal reasons, drug dealing etc. Regardless of all of the above that is not my question. I asked if One Nation and the Australian Conservatives are so strong on boarder protection, why don"t they have a forceful policy on "overstayers"? I am trying to canvas their reasons for having a tough policy directed towards some who want to call Australia home, but not others.

The old deflection of the boat people are baddies, so therefore we shouldn't concern ourselves with overstayers who are somewhat better is nonsense. It would be like saying bank robbers steal very little from banks so why worry about them. Or murder is worse than bank robbery, why worry about the robbers, more nonsense.

There's a virus on here alright, the "Belly-ache" virus.

Paul like American Republicans, even it seems Trump, some are employing these over stayers
On very low wages, we have first hand story's of members of this government being found to do so
I doubt, other than in the chook shed, will your stated party's/people gain much at all

Paul,
Firstly, your link has a paywall, see if you can find another.

Secondly, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill because the 64000
is an estimate at any given time, it is not a number of permanent stayers or annual number.

This issue came up regularly in the debate about boat illegals. Inquiries revealed that the vast majority were tourists who overstayed by a few days or weeks and then left after enjoying more of our sights and hospitality. Their numbers are replaced by other tourists who overstay mostly for a short period and continue spending their own money while here.

A breakdown of the figure is required to form any case for more spending to find the long term over stayers. Any that stay are illegal and criminals as they would require false Medicare number and Tax file numbers and drivers licence, etc. to exist in our community.

Often one sees news items where Border Protection and Police have raided brothels and other work places and detained illegals.

So all in all the matter is a strawman and no one is concerned, especially when the tourist industry brings in so much to the economy.

Philip S.,

I guess it is all a matter of perception in any
issue. I found it rather amazing that there are
according to the link over stayers who have
been in the country for 20 years. But fair enough,
that to you is not amazing. Perhaps ïncredible"
would have been a better word to use.

I hope our Paul has reported his "FRIEND" "Andrew" the illegal alien to the authorities for his overstaying his visor, so he can be deported, as Paul obviously thinks he shouldn't.

I guess it is nice to have some illegals in the country, how else would obnoxious fool greens find friends They sure won't find any in their political brother/sisters, or among the majority of Ozzies after starting his bulldust with "blowhards and hot heads".

Of course we believe every word he has written, after all Greens are known for their rigid attention to speaking the truth. Well to speaking the truth, if there is nothing else for them to say.

With supporters like Paul, no wonder the greens are on their way to the same destination as the Ozzie Democrats.

Dear Hassie,

What I don't quite understand is - if the Greens
are so insignificant and not any kind of threat
why do so many of you write about them and
obsess with them? Surely if they're so unimportant
then they and their supporters are not worth attacking?

cont'd ...

Dear Hassie,

Is Clive Palmer and his Party - to be reckoned with?
Will Palmer do for Australia what Donald Trump has done
for the US - Make the country "Great"? And Thanks to Dutton
et al, we don't even need to build a wall. :-)

Paul,
On ABC news website there is now a story about us targeting Suadi women (it will not provide a link) related to your post.

If you think we are not doing enough to find the illegals here then you or the greens can always raise the issue with government.

We could always make it more difficult for tourists, but that seems a bit silly just to nab a couple more working girls and a few backpackers.

HenryL, the SMH link does not have a paywall.

"A Senate committee has heard (from the representative of the Department of Immigration and Border Protection) as of June 30 there was an estimated 64,600 visa overstayers in the country"

That is the estimated figure as at 30th June 2017.

Henry you claim // Inquiries (by whom) revealed that the vast majority were tourists who overstayed by a few days or weeks and then left after enjoying more of our sights and hospitality.//

Not withstanding their visa clearly states the expiry date, and these people choose to flout Australian law.

Okay lets try to work out the ones that might fit Henry's description of overstaying tourists;

12,000 have been here 20 years or more. (not tourists)
11,000 2 to 5 years (not tourists)
6,600 15 to 20 years (not tourists)

In fact the department estimates that only about 5000 people are believed to have overstayed for three months or less. Some of those would be on student and work visas, other would be visiting relatives. And of course some would be here for those criminal reasons.

Henry your "vast majority were tourists" "enjoying more of our sights and hospitality." does not stack up. If it was the whole 5,000 possibles that's less than 8%.

As for //So all in all the matter is a strawman and no one is concerned, especially when the tourist industry brings in so much to the economy.// That doesn't seem to apply to the Australian Senate, held an enquiry into the whole affair.

Henry can you answer my question, since One Nation and the Australian Conservatives are so out there on the question of "illegals" as they like to call some seeking asylum as refugees. Why don't they have a policy to deal with the far greater number of overstayers.

BTW, there is no such person as an illegal asylum seeker. Anyone arriving here as a refugee can ask for asylum. Donald Trump could come here and claim to be a refugee seeking asylum, it would not be illegal.

Paul is concerned about those that came by plane, but considers those that came by boat legitimate. Please identify the race you feel others are concerned about if you believe the One Nation and Australian Conservatives are racist.

Now let's see. We have around 20000 overstayers who've been here for over 15 yrs.

Now who's been in power and able to resolve this problem in that time:

Well the Libs/Nats...twice and

The Labs for 6 of those years. And for a period during that 6 years the Greens were in coalition with the ALP.

But somehow, in the fevered minds of the left wing whiners, its all the fault of " Pauline Hanson's One Nation and Cory Bernardi's Australian Conservative " - or at least they're the only ones that get a mention.

Funny how the people's minds (for lack of a better term) work.

Paul one thing is clear the very real danger, that being the rabid right, do not like the greens
And while finding posts about that right offending use such against the greens
It is ok, this election will prove they have an even smaller support base
Now tell me why, apart from a truth, they are a bit lost, refusing to see the numbers supporting them
More importantly opposing them
Your thread even saw a figure of tens of thousands of over stayers, said to be unimportant
That quote was at least 10 times the number in offshore detention

Foxy - NO amazing facts not one as for this "according to the link over stayers who have been in the country for 20 years." THAT WAS IN THE ARTICLE as well as a breakdown by country.

SO again please provide 4 amazing facts, you can because like most of your rubbish links here is what it is

About us
Immigration Lawyers and Registered Migration Agents

Are you confused by the Department of Home Affairs (DoHA) website? Our team of Immigration Lawyers and Registered Migration Lawyers can help you simplify your migration process. Ensure you contact our accredited team of Registered Migration Agents today to ensure your future in Australia.

** That's right you provide a link to an firm of Immigration Lawyers, how much commission do you get? **

Belly Quote "Paul you I see have got a virus in the thread already" Gee and you sit alone all sad and wonder why people insult me, you bring it upon yourself.

Also "Your thread even saw a figure of tens of thousands of over stayers, said to be unimportant
That quote was at least 10 times the number in offshore detention"

Are you so naive they don't cost us anything near what the economic welfare for life invaders cost.

HenryL - Contrary to what Paul1405 Liar says you are right it is paywalled you are allowed 5 free articles over 1 week or 1 month can't remember which. depending on what web browser you are using go to options and delete the cookies for SMH, more info later if you need help.

It is way too long to copy here, but at the bottom of the page it says is going to be on TV

** Watch Sophie McNeill’s investigation, Escape From Saudi, tonight on Four Corners on ABC TV or ABC iview at 8.30pm. **

Paul,
Gee you greens are thick! All non citizens that enter Aus require a valid visa, no matter how they arrive. Those that do not are illegal entrants and denied entrance or detained. Those that overstay are also termed illegals.

As I said the information was given to me from the Dept of Immigration at the time of the illegal boat arrivals and the issue of over stayers was not seen as a problem. It may well have since become a problem and if so more staff or other measures may be required to deal with it. If you gave details of a recent Australian Senate inquiry, and their findings, that would help.

It is good that you now provide some figures. On your figures more than half are short term over stayers who leave on their own behest and are replaced by other over stayers. I could never work out why the illegals paid far more to smugglers than genuine fares and tourist visas are available. It does not surprise that more are now coming on tourist visas.

We already have laws in place to deal with over stayers, so I can only assume that One Nation think the laws are adequate at present. Perhaps more staff to track them down is needed.

One thing you do misinterrupt. ALL the boat arrivals WERE illegal entrants as they had no valid visas

Paul,
The paywall is still there on the smh link.

It seems the Saudi women that the ABC story is about had no problems getting an Australian visa. We give out thousands each year so why could not the illegals get a visa and come here legally. The fools risk their lives in leaky boats. No wonder the ME is still a thousand years behind.

I guess they didn't like showing they had a return airline ticket so preferred to pay a shonky smuggler a double price. Marry your cousin eh!

Philip S.,

I found the information in the link I cited ämazing."
You didn't. Your perception differs from mine.
Obviously! Besides if you don't like my links -
you're under no obligation to read them. No biggie!

Henry taken to insult now; "Gee you greens are thick!" You are an apologetic goose who can't read. The question I asked was why haven't One Nation/Australian Conservatives a policy to cover overstayers. You can divert, you can be dismissive all you like, you can throw up smoke screens, whatever. If you have some connection with these rat bags parties, maybe you can answer that question.

Hasbeen, I only have contempt for someone who would call for the Australian Navy to open fire on unarmed defenceless men, women and children in a boat, with a 50mm cannon, which was your recommendation . I find you despicable for the suggestion that it would be a good idea to nuk 200 million people in Pakistan. So I wont answer you, you are not worth it .

Paul,
Why would you consider it an insult to refer to you as thick, after all you were told that ALL non citizens require a valid visa many times over a long period while debating the illegal boat people., and you still come up with the furphy that 'asylum seeekers 'are not illegal. I did take an acute interest in the illegal boat people debate.

I have no association with any political party and can only assume that One Nation think the current laws, on over stayers, are adequate. If you think otherwise then I suggest you raise the issue with the government.

You referred earlier to an inquiry by the Senate so how about posting their findings and recomendations.

I also read today that the current government has canceled visas and citizenships of criminals and others about 7 times more than the last Labor government which is a good thing. We do not have to keep imported criminals. I applaude a positive move.

Paul when the needless abuse is thrown at you, for having an opinion, remember those trowing it dislike the same
Deep hate like racism is a product of a sick mind

Foxy the greens become a force because of our fool preferential voting system. Everything about this system is bad. It allows people like the greens to force their ideas on week politicians looking to buy a few preferences, while still meaning all our votes trickle down to one or other of the majors.

The simple first past the post like the UK, the mother of democracy uses gets a much better result. We could avoid our vote going to either major.

As for Palmer, a well educated neighbour with a very serious job floored us all at a bar b que. before the last election by announcing she was going to vote for Palmer. She said she thought a successful businessman was a good choice.

I doubt she will vote for him again. Will anyone? I put him about as useful as the Greens.

Belly,
If you think referring to some one as thick expresses 'deep hate' you have not learnt much in all your years.

No, you have worked with physical working men all your life. You are just giving Paully boy a cuddle, he is sooo sensitive, poor boy. A good cry will see him better.

Belly are you talking about the one who starts the thread by referring to others as "blowhards and hot heads" before hearing their opinion. Hardly one worth your bleeding sympathy.

The same bloke who refers to gate crashing boat people as "these poor unfortunate people".

I don't know what you are smoking these days old mate, but it is not helping your savvy, or your disposition. What ever it is, I hope you get well soon.

It appear we have a bad case of hero worship on this thread.

Four comments made, notice the start to all four, no one else here.
Paul you I see have got a virus in the thread already
Paul like American Republicans, even it seems Trump, some are employing
Paul one thing is clear the very real danger, that being the rabid
Paul when the needless abuse is thrown at you, for having an opinion, remember those trowing it dislike the same

Hasbeen Henry L you ignore a truth
While I am no green, people do support them
Now tell me, is it ok to insult even show hate for people because they vote differently
Really
What of one nation voters
Nationals
Labor, what do we gain from hating other Australians
Can any of us be sure we are always right, others always wrong

Paul,

You seem to have a feeble grasp on reality, a condition suffered by most of the gangreens.

Every year Aus gets about 7.4m tourists on limited time visasand while a tiny few overstay, the number is so small as not to create problems as those on a tourist visa cannot legally work, get medicare etc, and the vast majority of these return when promted.

Similarly about 200 000 2yr work holiday visas are granted annually, and these youngsters can work, get medicare, get Aus drivers licenses, etc, again, the vast majority do not overstay their visas, most that do also leave willingly when prompted, and the 20 000 remainder that do overstay for a longer period have various reasons such as having married an Aussie etc which are normally resolved through partner visas etc.

So to compare the 20 000 visa over-stayers that essentially cost the Aus taxpayer little to nothing, against the 50 000 economic migrants that destroyed their papers and cost the taxpayer about $10bn is a joke.

The reference "blowhards and hot heads" was aimed at spokespersons for the two political parties named. Particularly Hanson and Bernardi, who are the public faces articulating party policy on immigration, and everything else for that matter.

Both One Nation and the Australian Conservatives are outspoken critics of refugees entering the country, they have a clear policy on that. My question is if these parties are so concerned with "illegals" as they like to refer to them as, why don't they have a clear policy to deal with the large number of "overstayers". For parties that are forthright on boarder security, they seem rather casual when it comes to these other "illegals".

No one here admits to having any inside knowledge on this, or can given a definitive explanation, has Hanson or Bernardi every made comment on this serious problem. No one here will even fess up to being a party member, it must be the joining fee that holds them back.

BTW fellas, having moved to a new location in Queensland, very marginal LNP seat, I'm thinking of rejoining the Labor Party, after 30 years. My Greens NSW membership expires next month, not that I find the Greens disagreeable, I think my immediate efforts should be placed to help in some small way to dislodge the incompetent Coalition from government. Plus the fact the redneck parties seem to be stronger here and need to be countered as much as possible.

Paul,
I am very happy to support the policies of Australian Conservatives, and the work also of Peter Dutton who has similar values to One Nation. These parties want a cohesive nation upholding the Constitution, and not one of diverse loyalties to other political systems. Like the Greens who espouse atheistic communism and destructive social policy.

Paul if so welcome back
You have an interesting truth in that post
Conservatives will struggle, even with one nation, to have an impact out side Queensland
Our deep north has always been like that, Mexican migrants?
In my time there Victorians owned just about every thing
When insult is needed not rational debate you have won in my view

From One Nations immigration policy:

"
Unfortunately the increasing numbers of illegal migrants is sourced through our airports on visitors’ visas. A properly controlled visitor program will ensure tourists are welcome in Australia but ONE NATION will ensure that the detection of illegal migrants for deportation is properly funded and administered."

I wonder just how much ignorance of politics is based on a lack of research. Perhaps Paul can let us know

Mhase,
A big thank you for ferreting out that One Nation policy. Paul could have saved himself the egg on his face and embarrassment if he had bothered to check the facts before his accusations.

So Paul eats crow as One Nation is apparently aware of an increasing problem and has a policy to deal with it. Paul should inform us just what the greens policy is in relation to the over stayers.

Belly, it appears your congratulations to Paul was just a tad too soon as he has not won anything. Bit like Labors folly of schemes under Rudd and Gillard. No research done.

Henry L do not remember the ugliness in your old name posts
Paul I think but may be wrong, highlighted the truth
Much more angst can be seen about boat people than the much larger number of over stayers
And had you read both Paul,s then my post, you would see the welcome back was based on him maybe returning to Labor
The party forming the next government

"ONE NATION will ensure that the detection of illegal migrants for deportation is properly funded and administered."

A unfunded wishy-washy policy if ever I saw one, tells us nothing. One Nation is rather more specific and forthright on asylum seekers and refugees policy.

* Remove Australia from the U.N. Refugee Convention.
* Travel Ban from Known Extremist Countries.
* Application for asylum in the first safe country they (asylum seekers) reach.

In the first instance the policy is contained in a dozen or so words, with no specific details at all. The second policy runs to a few hundred words and details a specific course of action. There is a difference.

Now, if One Nation had said they would allocate an extra $50 million to engage an additional 500 boarder security agents specially tasked with the duty of detaining illegal overstayers, then we could see that as a concrete policy.

Why I target ON and AC on this is one of the corner stones of the existence of these parties is a tough stance on immigration and boarder security. I would expect a far more detailed policy regarding overstayers, than has been offered, they have a detailed policy concerning refugees/asylum seekers. Why the disparity?

Is Mise,

No, it's the brain-dead whingers to avoid.

Hmmm lot of prancing about.
First, assylum seekers can only claim to be refugees at the first safe country they enter.
Those that arrive in Australia by fishing boat from Indonesia are
illegals, as they paid for and went by air to Indonesia.
Otherwise they are economic illegal immigrants. UNRHC.

As far as overstayers are concerned with the linked RMS, Medicare, Tax,
Dept Foreign Affairs, Police, Electricity, Water, BDM, Workers Comp,
Council Rates, Renters, Bank, schools data bases it would be very hard
to exist in this society and be undetectable.
Such tricks as using names on grave stones of children born around
the same time as yourself are well known and easily picked up.
Try generating records in medicare or tax or school or someone who did
not exist 10 years ago.
They have photos of them so a search of drivers licences would be useful.
If they have even 10,000 overstayers they are not looking very hard.

Bazz you will know until recently it was possible and not illegal to listen in to some police radio
Not now, terrorism stopped that
But even traffic stops saw inquires in to the right to be in Australia checked always
Some detainees are over stayers
I have said in the past here and say it again
Boarder protection will become much tougher here and in most country,s
Not what some want to hear but what most demand
IF we spent the money offshore detention costs on aid? true well managed aid
Maybe less refugees,

Belly Quote "IF we spent the money offshore detention costs on aid? true well managed aid Maybe less refugees,"

Rubbish opinion, your only saving grace is you used the word "maybe" or you would relentlessly ridiculed. Billion of dollars have gone to Africa and other countries by Western nations and still the people come.

The magnet is welfare for life without having to do anything to get it.
Also getting preferential treatment in the country like Australia.

Why can't you get into your head generally over stayers are self supporting and can be more easily kicked out of Australia.

Paul1405 Liar Quote "Now, if One Nation had said they would allocate an extra $50 million to engage an additional 500 boarder security agents specially tasked with the duty of detaining illegal overstayers, then we could see that as a concrete policy."

** They can't state anything like that or the media, other parties will ridicule them as to how they will pay it etc because they are not in a position to deliver on it. **

Belly, it is not illegal to listen to any transmissions.
It is difficult now as the transmissions are all igital and encryption
is available.
I am sure overstayers try to keep out of sight, so if successful it
might mean they are ideal immigrants !

Bazz not looking for a fight on this but my view is very different
I truly think over stayers is not the right word
Some clearly come here with the intention of staying forever
And we play no roll in selecting them
Seems for the same reason as boat arrivals, we want to say who we let in, they present a problem
In both cases however yes action to control both groups is underway

Hi Belly,

//I truly think over stayers is not the right word
Some clearly come here with the intention of staying forever//

Absolutely correct, the person I refereed to earlier did exactly that, he intentionally came as a visitor, this was in the 1970's. Firstly to sus the joint out, then to make a personal decision to stay or go. It was not an easy decision to make, family back home etc, but he chose to say. Later on he became legal when an amnesty was granted to long term overstayers. The fact is, although he was a great guy, everything you would want in a migrant, and I could understand his position, he did take a job and some benefits from Australians, without Australia's approval.

Dearest loverable Philly-Poo,

rubbish opinion, //other parties will ridicule them// what would change, other parties do that now.

rubbish opinion, //can be more easily kicked out of Australia.// Obviously not, there are over 64,000 of them.

rubbish opinion, //generally over stayers are self supporting// Generally so are bank robbers, one is stealing cash, the other is stealing jobs and benefits and also committing crime etc. Both are breaking Australian law. Its AMAZING how the hard right, like Philly-Poo will claim to be big on "law and order" when it suits them. This is the third one on the forum in a couple of weeks. There were the vigilant Nazi thugs at a demo, the Frank Bogan with his baseball bat, now its self supporting criminals. All these criminal acts are okay with Philly-Poo.

Overstayers can't legally work, employers get fined for employing them and can't claim their wages against tax. They also can't get medicare, unemployment etc, and most of them do get caught and deported.

I am sure that there are a handful that have managed to crook the system, the reality is that these overstayers don't take jobs or cost the taxpayers more than a tiny fraction of what the illegal boat people do. This is just another BS red herring from our resident left whinge extremist.

I have just learnt that immigration Office staff are offering incorrect advise to applicants yet the Dept. still accept the many thousands of Dollars in Application fees for each, knowing full well that the application will be unsuccessful.
As the advise is verbal the unsuccessful applicant has no leg to stand on. The integrity of the Australian public service is not what I was led to believe it was.
Will the Australian Conservatives address this flaw ?

Foxy,
Off topic but this may be of interest to you.

Amira Willighagen live on 702 talk radio (Live singing 3 songs)

On youtube and the only interview in English I have heard, and recent.

Shadow Minister not sure what you get out of protecting what you name over stayers
But the do work here
Even as we have seen in Embassy's or the homes of staff from them
Sydneys China town is constantly raided and arrests made
Fruit picking is the same, as are some areas of construction
Black market jobs, under paid because the worker dare not complain, are all over the country

Well we've gone from Paul telling us that One Nation has " no direct policy to combat the most serious of immigration problems" to... well they do have a policy but Paul doesn't like it.

One wonders whether Paul knew they had a policy all along because he did proper research before making his silly claims OR he just made the claims hoping that it was true and no one would check it out. I guess we'll never know because Paul has a policy of fleeing a thread the moment he's caught out.

Just like that other thread on small parties where I asked him "It'd be interesting to know whether you made this false comparison [between the Nats and the Greens] because you utterly misunderstand the the issue or because you thought you could slip it through." He hasn't been sighted in that thread since he was exposed.

But pathetic as all that is, the truly hilarious part of this is his lament that the One Nation policy is "unfunded". A Green supporter crying that someone else's policy is unfunded!

Irony or hypocrisy? Hard to choose....probably both.

Belly & others, just to make it clear, overstayers do need to be put
on the first plane after they are caught.
The very worse cases are those virtual slaves where they are confined
to a work premises, such as women sex workers.
They should be the easiest to pick up as they advertise their wares
and can send male border force officers in and ask the girls for their passports.
Now the proprietor probably has them locked away somewhere but it
would not take much intimidation to force them to be handed over.
Charges of people smuggling are severe.
The same applies with the agriculture workers.

Self organised overstayers would be harder to detect as many will
work in ethnic (Chinese) businesses for cash in hand.
In one doco I saw Immigration people went into a clothing factory
and shouted "immigration officers please show your documentation"
and it showed them running like cockroaches when you turn a light on.
It was in the UK I think from memory.

Paul1405 Liar Quote "rubbish opinion, //can be more easily kicked out of Australia.// Obviously not, there are over 64,000 of them"

** My mistake I erroneously credited you and the other lefties with the intelligence to understand kicked out (for you) WHEN CAUGHT. Ignorance is not an excuse but you seem to possess more than your share. **

Belly, Also as stated a lot of jobs lazy Australians won't do. That is the Governments job to force them to work.

Think it is bad now if Shorten gets in and increases the dole by $75 there will be thousands more.

Bazz - There was an article around a week ago that the most businesses with illegal sex workers found by police were in Canberra.

Shadow, do you just make things up to suit your way of thinking?

//most of them (overstayer) do get caught and deported.//

Not according to the evidence presented before the Senate hearing.
of 64,600 overstayers as at 30th June 2017. There were;

12,000 been here 20 years plus.
11,000 2 to 5 years.
6,600 15 to 20 years.

That's over 60%, and bet your bottom dollar, many of the above have been able to "normalise" themselves into Australian society.

Shadow, as your favorite gal would say; Please explain!

Lets cut to the chase, and you can see that I have clearly shown the want-a-be's from the rabid right, the Hanson's, the Bernardi's and the Dutton's of this country are really not that interested in boarder security and illegal immigration. These guys want to kick arse when it comes to refugees and asylum seekers, to suit their political agenda, but not surprising they want to turn a blind eye when the entire town of Bundaberg, figuratively speaking, are walking around illegally. No doubt some of these illegals are breaking into your house, stealing your car, selling your kids drugs. And what is the policy of the extreme towards these illegals, well if we catch them we might kick them out, very whisy-washy.

What would I do, I will declare an amnesty for anyone who has resided illegally in the country for more than two years, long term people, from day zero. I would give them one year to turn themselves in. At which time they would be given two options; One, leave Australia voluntarily, and we will wave you goodbye, jail for criminals first. Two, apply for Australian citizenship, and providing you meet certain criteria, such as you can support yourself in society, and you have not committed serious crime, giving those people citizenship, and all the rights that go with it. Those that don't turn themselves in, a minimum of two years jail, plus jail if involved in crime, followed by confiscation of assets, and deportation. Extra boarder security offices tasked with tracking down all overstayers, short and long term.

Paul1405 Liar I like some of your thoughts, just out of interest will you apply the same or a similar criteria to welfare for lifers.

For example.
If they refused to learn English like a number have, will you deport them?

If they can't find work within X period of time will you deport them?

If they arrived with no documents will you subject them too full ASIO check?

Better still no documents (passport etc) no entry, what will you do?

Any found to have criminal convictions in the country they came from will you deport them?

What about the ones who have returned to where they escaped from to enjoy holidays?

What about ones who commit crimes here?

GY I am offended by the constant use of the word liar in describing a poster
Are the sites rules to be obeyed? not officially reporting but it seems a fair question
Bazz yes and those raids have the same effect here
And yes again first plane out, some times with the employers on board
Young woman once told me, [in my job] she was paid ten dollars an hour and a handful of out of date food, to work 12 hour shifts in a corner store
She was deported because she failed to say she was illegal
Paul, mate, try extra hard, not to respond.
You can do it

"you can see that I have clearly shown the want-a-be's from the rabid right, the Hanson's, the Bernardi's and the Dutton's of this country are really not that interested in boarder security and illegal immigration"

Well I can see that you are going to wilfully ignore clear facts because you don't want them to be true. I'm not entirely sure why you'd think anyone would take the slightest notice of your 'thoughts' if you demonstrate that you aren't interested in the facts.

PS

More data for you to ignore...

"Peter Dutton isn't the only one wanting more powers, with a report in the Daily Telegraph newspaper revealing officials in the Department of Home Affairs want more scope to deal with the tens of thousands of visa overstayers living in Australia."

Belly.
Where is the truth in what Paul said? He stated categoricly that ON and AC parties did not have policies and yet mhaze has shown that ON does indeed have a policy. Then he again continues with the lie that asylum seekers are not illegals, yet it has been shown many times from official documents that all non citizens require a valid visa to enter Australia.

Does that not make him a liar and if so should he not be called out on that?

Paul. Policies do not require details of day to day workings, they simply need to show the direction the party is heading. The ON policy does indeed do that, it refers to over stayers as illegal and mentions deportation. That is hardly wishy-washy, but quite specific.

What has any over stayer done to justify an amnesty? Should be subject to all current laws. Our laws do provide for any persons held against their will and is taken into account.

ON and AC parties did not have policies
What ?
They have a policy to cover every major party policy & more if anyone cares to put their blind prejudice aside & changes their blinker from the right eye to the left one.
The Leftists are starting to play rather dirty but then, it's in their nature !

Belly - Quote "GY I am offended by the constant use of the word liar in describing a poster
Are the sites rules to be obeyed? not officially reporting but it seems a fair question"
** That is exactly what you are doing but trying to disguise it. **
____________________________________________________
Belly if this is not a lie which makes the person who said it a liar what is?
** I wrote "go into a Government office and ask for a FOI request on the number of refugees still on welfare after being here for years, any money bet you will never get it." **

Paul1405 you claim I said this.
"I like your FOI application, "How many turban heads are on the dole, I demand to know!"
____________________________________________________

Belly you and your mates here continue to refer to people as criminals over and over admittedly they have been to court and found guilty, see the example above it clearly shows Paul1405 lied which ='s Liar.

Quote "Paul, mate, try extra hard, not to respond. You can do it"

Also can't he stick up for himself needs you, would you like me to post a compilation of your past insults to others, makes liar seem tame, your self righteous behavior lately is laughable.

Up UP and away with super belly, does not invoke much confidence.

Dear Belly,

Thank You for your post. And for you concern about
name calling. It does go against this forum's
rules to keep repeating the same derogatory
expression over and over again. And you were very good
not to have reported it - instead you've tried
to solve it by bringing attention to the guilty
party in the hope of him stopping it. Anyway, you did try.

As CM would say - Kudos for that!

I've come across a link that perhaps will remind us all
of what we should be aware of when posting on this
forum. It may just help to remind us. It certainly can't
hurt. I will try to take it all on board as well.
Here it is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise/guides/about-netiquette

Belly and Foxy you are both in unison but you fail to say anything when Paul1405 or the others in your club say thing derogatory to others that equals a hypocrite.

Belly You conveniently leave out your past abuse of others, it seems like the fire got too hot for you so you suddenly become self righteous and will now report others but not a peep out of you for the abuse of others by Paul1405 and Mhaze.

Gee and you wonder why some don't like you.

Foxy & Belly
Quote "Phil, sorry, got to be nice to Philly-Poo" used approx 10 times with variations.

Quote "Stop counting the Fruity Pops you A-HOLE!"

By Foxy Quote "Goodness me. Give it a rest you nasty old coot! You're beginning to piss me off big time!"

Maybe you forgot you said this before Foxy "Personal attacks have no place in discussions. Take responsibility for your own actions."

There are much worse back further but at the moment that should be enough to beyond a shadow of a doubt demonstrate total hypocrisy.

Paul's first line in his discussion is: "The blowhards and hot heads from Pauline Hanson's One Nation and Cory Bernardi's Australian Conservative parties." Is Paul opening this discussion with personal abuse? Can he not expect similar in return?

The Greens are extremist left and are willing to accept persons entering Australia without any papers or visas. Our border protection may need to follow up on those over staying their visas more rigorously.

I had two Indonesians students living with in the 1990's when their visas were about to expire they left to stay with other Indonesians. However that was futile as they were found and deported within a week

I recall something like the Greens wanted to let them fly in from Indonesia etc to avoid the use of boats years ago wonder if they still want to do that

REVEALED: Nearly 900 refugees rushed to Australia from Manus Island and Nauru for medical treatment are STILL in the country - and nearly half were never sick in the first place

Nearly 900 asylum seekers who came to Australia from Nauru and Manus Island for medical treatment remain in the country - and almost half of those were never sick in the first place.

That's according to government insiders, who told The Daily Telegraph 895 refugees have exploited legal loopholes to block their return to offshore processing centres.

Among the cases was an Iranian teenager, who doctors demanded be taken to Australia for urgent medical treatment last October.

The 19-year-old woman was later found to be suffering from constipation. She remained in Australia.

In another case, a man in his 30s was transported to Australia in 2014 to treat a kidney stone.

He also had not returned to offshore processing centres.

The same year, a 44-year-old required a CAT scan of his pelvis and was taken to Australia - and five years later, he had not left.

About 50 per cent of those who came to Australia for medical treatment were not unwell themselves, but were accompanying family members who were, the paper reported.

Most were living in the community, and a minority were in detention because of concerns about their identity.

Many were taking legal action to be resettled in Australia and the government was contesting cases.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6671157/Asylum-seekers-medically-evacuated-Australia-Manus-Island-Nauru-never-returned.html

Josephus yes the greens are extremist left
Do you agree one nation and AC are extremist right
Greens came about as other than what they are today
But sadly every leftist, true left, group got involved
Extremes are unwanted by most voters and always will be

mhaze, forgive me if I haven't read the 'Daily Telecrap'

//"Peter Dutton isn't the only one wanting more powers, with a report in the Daily Telegraph newspaper revealing officials in the Department of Home Affairs want more scope to deal with the tens of thousands of visa overstayers living in Australia."//

The departments involved have been wanting additional resources to deal with the serious problem of overstayers for years. Successive governments have taken a fairly benign attitude on the issue, turning a blind eye. This shows to me the millions spent on refugee/asylum seeker detention is a political exercise and nothing more. The hundreds of millions spent on offshore detention in local third world countries has been a complete disaster. Now trying to avoid the political heat, the government is happy to see these detainees quietly slip into Australia for what will ultimately be placement in the community.

One piece of the tabloid gutter press, the foreign arm, has taken to quoting the local tabloid gutter press. Nothing like a bit of spicy "news" provided by a government insider, if they really exist. A GI could be anyone from the Prime Minister down to the clearer at parliament house. Used so often by the muck rakers as the source of "news".

Paul etc,

Like I said, more data for you to ignore and any 'reason' will suffice.

Your original unresearched assertion was that all those on the right don't really care about the visa overstayers because they are a more acceptable religion or colour...or something.

Doing the research that you neglected to do, I've now shown you that One Nation are indeed interested in resolving the issue and that the current government would like more powers to alleviate the issue.

And your response has been to ignore the former and dismiss the later on totally spurious grounds.

If you think this is the way intellectual discourse works you'd be wrong. Ignoring data because it doesn't suit your prejudices simply means that your claims are, if not utterly invalidated, are at least made questionable.

Basically, what is clear is that you formulated a theory based on zero data, zero research and zero thinking to try to demonstrate hypocrisy among those you despise. And instead you demonstrated your own hypocrisy and lack of reason. Own goal. Better luck next time.

Oh and a little more for you to ignore in your search for something you'd like to be the truth....

"Conservative Party leader Cory Bernardi has been calling for the government to clean up the visa system to stop these kind of rip-off rorts."

mhaze, lighten up lad, and get off your high horse, and produce this so called data. DATA definition; facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.

"Conservative Party leader Cory Bernardi has been calling for the government to clean up the visa system to stop these kind of rip-off rorts." Where is the Australian Conservatives policy on overstayers. At least One Nation had a vague few words on the subject in their policy. I said it seems they don't, I never said they didn't, a lie from you. Glad you were able to find some obscure reference, be it ever so small, among all the other policy material.

Where is the evidence Bernardi has been doing that, I don't hang of his every word, maybe you do. As for Dutton the legislation has been in place from well before he was a Ministerm, legislation to taken action on overstayers, Dutton failed to do so.

//Your original unresearched assertion was that all those on the right don't really care about the visa overstayers because they are a more acceptable religion or colour...or something.//

Liar, firstly I did not refer to all on the right, what I said was "the above two political parties seem to have no direct policy to combat the most serious of immigration problems."
As for the second part because they are a more acceptable religion or colour...or something, distorting what I actually said; "Why is that? Is it religion, is it colour, is it where these people come from, or is it some other reason that sees such a disparity in immigration policy from both One Nation and The Australian Conservatives."

Clearly asking others to answer a question, it was not a rhetorical question where I gave an answer.

Under the accepted Philip S conventional garbage I should now refer to you as;
mhaze liar.

Philip S.,

The difference between us is that I do not pursue
people over several posts repeating abuse. I also
do not start the abuse. I react to it - yes,
most people do. However my point
in giving the recent link on guides to netiquette
was meant to give us all something to think about
prior to posting. Once again I see that the message
went right over your head.

Quote "One piece of the tabloid gutter press, the foreign arm, has taken to quoting the local tabloid gutter press. Nothing like a bit of spicy "news" provided by a government insider, if they really exist. A GI could be anyone from the Prime Minister down to the clearer at parliament house. Used so often by the muck rakers as the source of "news"."

Like usual dear Paul can't discuss or deny the article so attacks the source of the article.

Foxy you are just a hypocrite that wants to tell others what to do but says nothing about the abuse and insults from your dear paul and others in your lefty group, until you and Belly say something to them don't bother with your self righteousness the more you say the more you prove to others I am right in calling you out as a hypocrite.

Foxy once more it is not worth responding to, level headed conversation is becoming rare here
Worth the effort to try keeping it alive

Philip S.,

I do point out abuse where it is warranted.
I have always done so. My posting record
speaks for itself over the decades. Even
with my latest link - I've made an attempt
to get people to think before posting.
What you need to do is - instead of brushing
things aside and putting the blame onto others.
Take a good look at yourself and see how you
can improve your posts. Give it a go.
The reactions you may get could surprise you.
At least - try it. Calling others hypocrites
is simply the tactic of a bully.

Dear Belly,

I still have strong hopes for people that I
believe are basically decent. Hopefully we
can get to the point where we are at least civil
to each other. I'm sure that these people aside
from this forum - are quite different and would not
be behaving in the real world as they do here.
Anonymity, of course helps a great deal.

Dear Belly,

Just letting you know that I shall be going into
hospital shortly for some operations. I will not
be posting for a while. Don't worry. I hope to
be back eventually. I'll let you know before I
leave - I don't know the exact dates as yet.

Bazz,
You are right the self organized over stayers are the most difficult to detect. This is because they need false documents to exist in our community. Most non criminals would not even know where to start to obtain false documents and would hesitate to become involved with those that did know. These over stayers make themselves vulnerable to exploitation by criminals and employers and landlords.

If I recall properly, Pauline stated a few years ago that she was aware of false documemts being produced in some Asian country. Do you know any further to that?

But then over stayers was not a big issue a few years ago, but seems to have increased lately. Note the Suadi women in that 4 corners report did not mention any difficulty in getting Australian visas. Maybe Border Protection is now paying more attention to visa issue.

Paul,

I guess your weakness at maths is a common feature of the gangreens.

Roughly there are roughly 7 400 000 visitors to Aus every year, of which >1% or 56 000 overstay their visas most of which leave shortly after once notified.

56000 x 20 years gives about 1 120 000 visa overstayers, of which about roughly 60 000 remain which is about 5% of which 16 000 p.a. are caught and deported. In the time they stay illegally the government has spent virtually nothing on them.

So Paul, You please explain!

As for your idea of giving illegals a free pass after evading the police, that is a monumentally stupid idea with very obvious consequences.

Shadow, your maths is suspect, //16 000 p.a. are caught and deported.// According to the department in 2016/17 financial year 12,966 were "located", not deported, "located", there is a difference, and there is no indication how many of those overstayers are still in the country.

Shadow, lets work something out based on the evidence presented to the Senate by the department. As of 30th June 2017 there were 6,600 overstayers still in Australia who arrived between 1997 and 2002, that's an average of 1,100 per year. That is the minimum figure for overstayers in those years. It reasonable to assume the actual figure was much greater and for various reasons the additional overstayers left Australia, gave themselves up and left, got caught out, obtained Australian citizenship, or simply died. The number of foreign visitors has grown from 5 million in the year 2000 to an estimated 8.8 million in 2019. If overstayers are consistent with visitor growth then we can expect between 20,000 and 40,000 additional potential long term overstayers, people who be remain after 15 years. Add to that the short term and the existing long term overstayers that could see 150,000 to 200,000 illegal overstayers in 2035.

Foxy thanks and all the best from me and a few more here you are well liked
As my life gets nearer that door we do not come back from I am pleased my mind is not out in front leading my body
Saw your recent reading is good for you post and just completed three weeks read, it was great 4 volumes hated it ending
Regards

Hi Foxy,

All the best with those ops, I know all will go well, and you will be on the mend in no time.

"The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, not to worry about the future, or not to anticipate troubles, but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly."

Buddha

Best regards Paul.

Paul etc,

Well that's new. Normally when he's found to be in error or spinning a yarn out of whole clothe, he simply disappears so as to avoid having to admit error.

Now instead we have a tantrum. The man who created this whole thread out of unresearched assertions, decides that he who discovered that they were unresearched assertions is a liar. Wow!

" and get off your high horse"

Its not high...it just seems to be from your subterranean vantage.

The whole point of your thread was to assert that these people were hypocrites for going after boat people but not going after airplane people. Since we now know that this is utterly wrong, then the entire thread has been a futile endeavour.

Perhaps henceforth we should assume your assertions are wrong (especially if you say 'seems') and fact check them before proceeding.

It'd be nice if you accepted that you go it all wrong, just as it would have been nice if you admitted you got your assertions about the relative disparity between Green and Nat representations all wrong.

But, it SEEMS, that's a bridge too far.

80 posts so the thread got some interest
Rather more than some in fact
Unfortunately it could not avoid the personal attack and insults
But such is life here
Rather think Paul got it right, saw a few denying over stayers are a problem
Even challenged the numbers, far more than boat people ever reached
Dutton in the news with his war on truth attack on Shorten, claiming a briefing that he had to admit never took place
Maybe he should think about joining dads army after the loss of his seat

I note Foxy says that the use of the term hypocrite is the sign of a bully. I wonder what she thinks of Jesus Christ, who used the term frequently. The term refers to a person who says one thing to deceive others and in reality acts differently. Such a person is Al Gore who claims the planets warming will raise sea levels, but his house fronts the ocean.

Labor and Greens with the help of Green supporter Dr Phelps propose that two Doctors be given authority to have medical cases from Off shore detention be brought to Australia. This is the new channel to have illegal entry to Australia. Now all they need to do is injure themselves or swallow poisons or complain of supposed pain and the Dr's will assign them to Australia. Cheaper than paying people smugglers and risking drowning.

mhaze, can I expect that data any time soon?

There is no tantrum on my part. Seeing you have difficulty with the word data, you may need helping out with the meaning of tantrum.

TANTRUM; an uncontrolled outburst of anger and frustration, typically in a young child.

Telling one to get of their high horse, cannot be construed as an uncontrolled outburst of anger. Is English your second language? That would go a long way to explaining your language difficulties. Or maybe your lack of an education is a contributing factor. But chin up, keep at it, and you will get there one day.

Something else, from someone else.

"Like usual dear Paul can't discuss or deny the article so attacks the source of the article."

The article is gratuitous, what in the trade could be called a baseless column filler. On this occasion we have a double whammy, with one slimy foreign tabloid The Daily Mail, piggy backing on a local, equally slimy tabloid The Daily Telecrap. Both have a well earned, and well established reputation for dishonest journalism, producing sensationalised biased rubbish, even lies when it suits them to do so. Alarm bells ring whenever something written by one of their journalistic hacks is attributed to mystery sources, the insider, or the reliable source, unnamed, unknown, unfounded. The truth is the journalistic hack is simply making it all up. To give it some sort of credence he attributes it all to some unknown mystery informer.
Do I need to respond to this rubbish, NO! Does the Useful Idiot who posted it need to find the truthfulness of it, NO! The article must be true, because it only reinforces what he knows to be true anyway.

Paul1405 Liar Congratulations you managed to post a 161 word comment not one word of it used to refute the truthfulness of the article instead all you could attack was the origin of the article and the person who posted it.

That is an EPIC FAIL in anyone book.

Belly Quote "Rather think Paul got it right, saw a few denying over stayers are a problem
Even challenged the numbers, far more than boat people ever reached"

Your ability to brown nose is astounding.

Philly-Poo

"The truth is the journalistic hack is simply making it all up. To give it some sort of credence he attributes it all to some unknown mystery informer."

You as a Useful Idiot, do not question its truthfulness as it simply reinforces your Neo-Nazi fascist beliefs. Its telling you what you want to hear, what you know to be true. Keep believing it, if it makes you feel that good. i don't see any reason to comment on it.

Paul,
It is good to see that your feeble atttempt to disparage the conservative parties failed totally. It failed because you were shown to be a liar.

Firstly it has been shown that ON does have a policy for over stayers and secondly you still persist in stating that the boat people are legal arrivals when official documents state that all non -citizens require a valid visa to enter Australia. Boat people are detained because they do not have a visa

So it serves you right that you failed. Best do your homework in future.

Paul1405 Liar You wrote "The truth is the journalistic hack is simply making it all up. To give it some sort of credence he attributes it all to some unknown mystery informer."

** Notice you have it in quotation marks, so where did you get that information? **

Quote "i don't see any reason to comment on it."

** I would rather say you do not have any facts that would invalidate the authenticity of the article so like usual you attack the source and person who posted it. *

Philly-Poo

Notice you have it in quotation marks, so where did you get that information?

From a reliable source, a government insider, take your pick.

BTW, Where did the journalistic hack who wrote the story get his information?

HenryL, to take your advice would be like taking advice from a chimpanzee. I assume you are a candidate for One Nation at the next election.

A bush lawyer who has no idea of the law, that's what you be.

Under international law, it is not illegal to seek asylum. Article 14(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides that ‘everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution’.

Article 31 of the Refugees Convention, to which Australia is a signatory, states that it is legal to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum. The Refugees Convention recognises a right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how people arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents.

As for overstayers, One nation had less than a dozen words on the subject, but volumes on how to deal with asylum seekers.

Cory Barnardi, supposedly had something to say verbally on the subject, no one can give a reference to this. Maybe it was when Barnardi was delivering his 'Sermon on the Mount' speech, I missed that one. The Australian Conservatives certainly have no formal policy on this. Do they have any written policy at all, or is it all the utterances of the mighty Cory.

Paul in just months after both NSW and Federal elections, Conservatives will be forced to understand the mathematics of politics
Not near enough voters even think of voting for them
An unfortunate truth ,for them
Until then you will continue to be the target as maybe a frustration bought about by knowing they will never ever rule this country turns to heated posts
Liberalism will return and in my view be stronger for the infestation of far right being its downfall, then rebirth

Many decent people who would have made fine citizens of this Nation had all their dreams shattered after forking out their life savings to pay for Visa applications only to have them denied. They're now worse off than ever before.
Those with no intent to contribute positively to this Nation seem to just pay immigration lawyers & a visa appears assured.

Paul

"Between 2016 and 2017 the Department of Home Affairs tracked down 15,885 people who were overstaying their visas and kicked them out of the country or placed them in detention."

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/what-it-s-like-to-be-a-visa-overstayer-in-australia

Secondly, your figure of roughly 1100 over-stayers that stay for an extended period of time blows a hole in your argument that over-stayers are a bigger problem than illegal boat people especially when compared to the more than 10 000 to 20 000 coming in per year under the incompetent labor/green coalition.

The article shows how little the government spends on illegal overstayers compared to the $10bn spent on illegal boat arrivals.

Paul etc claims to be above throwing tantrums after being exposed as a fact-free zone...and then proceeds to throw a tantrum eg "Is English your second language?", "your lack of an education".

I won't bother to dignify these outbursts with a rebuttal. Anyone who's read any of my posts will form their own opinion about Paul's assertions.

Paul, who made his initial claims without bothering to check to see if they were true, now demands that I, after proving them to be untrue, provide even more evidence of his error.

It seems being 100% wrong isn't enough for Paul. You'd think he'd be used to it by now.

mhaze, you used the word data, without actually providing any data. As for policy, there was a smidgen of policy in a few wishy-washy words from One Nation, nothing of value. Nothing at all concrete from Bernnardi's Australian Conservatives, except for a vague claim that Bernardi had been verbally posturing on the matter at some stage, no proof provided.

Pauline Hanson admits to not being the sharpest tool in the shed, looks like her supporters on the forum are also rather blunt edged as well.

"you used the word data, without actually providing any data."

I, unlike you, provided actual data as regards all those who you sought to malign.

You just make claims that you hope are true or hope no-one will bother checking and then get pissed off when they are checked and found to be as untrue as it is possible to be.

And then your only lament is that the policies that you said didn't exist aren't as wordy as you think they should be.

Still its nice to see you trying to defend one of your bozo assertions rather than just leaving the thread when you false claims become untenable. I guess that's progress of a sort.

Paul1405 Does the refugee convention also say they have to register in the first country, rather than rather than shop around for the most stupid country that will give them the best welfare.

Paul1405 You put things in quotation marks but can't name the source of the statement.

Belly can't you make a comment without addressing it to Paul, give your brown nosing a rest.

mhaze, what DATA did you provide. The only concrete evidence provided that either One Nation or the Australian Conservatives have any kind of policy to deal with the growing number of overstayers is this;

"ONE NATION will ensure that the detection of illegal migrants for deportation is properly funded and administered."

A vague 17 word generalised policy, nothing specific that cover overstayers.

Nothing is presented for the Australian Conservatives, their policy is determined by Corny Banana on the run.

I wonder just how much ignorance of politics is based on a lack of policy. Perhaps mhaze can let us know.

"what DATA did you provide"

You asserted , without evidence or it SEEMS even an attempt to ascertain the facts, that One Nation, The Australian Conservatives and (later) Dutton, had no policy and therefore no interest in the visa overstayers.

The data I provided showed that to be utterly wrong. Why you can't just admit that you made unresearched claims is the only mystery here.

And then as if to compound your errors you go down the path of doctoring the quote about the One Nation policy by excluding the clause making it plain that they're talking about visa overstayers and then assert the policy doesn't make it plain that its about visa overstayers.

I've never understood this willingness of some to beclown themselves in the quest to avoid admitting error. But either way, I'm done with you. Anyone reading the thread will be able to draw their own conclusions about your ethics.

The link between illegal overstayers and organised crime. The Departmental Officer giving evidence before the Senate hearing admitted there were 5170 illegal US citizens running around Australia, 30th June 2017. I do not believe all are fleeing the oppressive Trump regime and seeking asylum in Oz. How many of the illegals are here doing the bidding of US and Australian organised crime gangs.

"Authorities have seized a record haul of 1.7 tonnes of the drug ice, which was bound for Australia. It’s not only the largest ever seizure of methylamphetamine bound for Australia, it’s also a record domestic seizure of the drug in the USA. The consignment has an estimated street value in Australia of $1.29 billion." That is a potential 17 million drug deals on the streets. And who could say how many deaths of Australians that would have led to.

The Australian Federal Police and Victoria Police arrested six people in Victoria and NSW. Two of whom were US nationals residing illegally! OVERSTAYERS. the others were associated with outlawed motor cycle gangs. More arrests are expected.

With billions of dollars involved its little wonder some of our politicians are soft on illegal overstayers. The six arrested are not your Mr Big's who could have some politicians in their pockets.

The balls in your court, mhaze, Harry, etc. As your lovely Pauline would say PLEASE EXPLAIN!

Paul,

This is just getting more stupid. Because 2 visa overstayers were gang members you are now inferring that all overstayers are criminals?

You are well known for fact-free posts, but this one takes the cake.

Paul yet again, for having a opinion other than another raw insult is thrown at you
Yet it strengthens your question at the start of the thread
I see that question as *why are some less concerned by those who arrive by other means*
Not any thing else, we know, all of us, that number IS HIGHER than boat arrivals.
Now yes boat arrivals have a special place in the far right, even middle Australia
You will not like it but enough on all sides demand an end to them, to swing elections
IF rational debate, not heated ill aimed insults is to take place, threads such as this need reading and a deeper consideration
It is my view, only when both sides have put a workable solution together will the false hate be removed from the subject
The next government must continue to stop the boats while finding other country,s to resettle the detainees ASAP

Shadow, scored an own goal with this bit of nonsense;

//while a tiny few overstay, the number is so small as not to create problems//

Importing 1.7 tonnes of the drug Ice, is not a problem for you. How many Australian would die from overdoses with another 17 million drug deals on the streets. Would in your words see it as "so small as not to create problems".

I was surprised at the number of Septic Tanks (5170) given to the Senate as overstayers. After all these people are coming from a rather effluent country in the United States. Certainly not coming from skid row, these people being able to afford expensive air tickets and show Australian authorities their ability to support themselves whilst here. I suspect that more than a few percent, as you and others would have it, of these Americans in particular, and others nationals as well, are overstaying for criminal purposes.

Australia under the Coalition, has gained a reputation among foreign illegal drug suppliers as one; a country where its citizens are cashed up and will pay top dollar for illicit drugs, and two; having a government that is soft on operatives entering the country and "working" with little chance of detection,, often in partnership with well organised local criminals, in the illicit drug trade.

With an armada of ships, costing millions, watching for boats from the north, the back door, the smart criminals are jetting into the south, the front door, at Sydney and Melbourne airports with impunity. These are like a stream of ants entering your house through the front door and heading straight for the honey pot! While what are you doing, watching at the back door, with an expensive can of useless Baygon in your hand!

Some in our political circles have to be suspect, given their soft policy at best, or no policy at worse, very troubling, on illegal overstayers!

Its only the dumb arses with no network in Australia that get caught, and with 1.7 tonnes of Ice to sell, who needs a Medicare card anyway.

With illegal overstayers they have visas and the Border Force has computer records of their entry. It is a matter of tracking them down. I believe many are students who do not consider their overstay of concern because they have been here for some time. They are not coming to the attention of police for criminal acts.

With the proposed Greens and Phelps Bill to bring in people without visas, violates our border protection. They are more concerned about those that are illegally attempting to enter our borders than the native citizens of Australia living homeless. They do not have a love of this country and its security or real medical concerns of citizens. They are self centred morons attempting to break down our borders

Paul has lost the argument as he has had to introduce drugs as his final hammer. Nothing to do with the subject. Paul the chief character came here via the USA as a refugee which you love to house. He was a liar and deceiver as are most of your boat people.

"Paul has lost the argument ..."

Well no, the Black Knight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs ) lost. This is several orders of magnitude greater.

So now we have Paul trying to salvage some degree of respect by utterly changing the subject. But in doing so he's totally lost the logic of his original argument.

Previously his argument was that, since those on the right he dislikes are all-in on stopping the boat people, failing to do the same with plane people exposes their hypocrisy. It was a flimsy argument but it had some credence until I showed that his assertions about One Nation etc were baseless.

But now he's saying that we have to be concerned about plane people because they're, in part, drug related. So its no longer a comparison between boat and plane people.

Therefore, if targeting visa overstayers is an issue about drugs, we have to ask what the other parties are doing about them.

In the main, we have to ask Paul why the Greens don't have a policy about targeting visa overstayers. Is it because they are in favour of importing illegal drugs. Why didn't the ALP-Green government move to halt visa overstayers?

By seeking to salvage some self-respect, he's opened up a can of worms that targets his beloved Greens and other lefties. Logic failure again.

Paul certainly has not lost the argument, in fact Paul has won the argument convincingly.

My original contention was that; //Pauline Hanson's One Nation and Cory Bernardi's Australian Conservative parties make great play with policies aimed at stopping the few refugees/asylum seekers arriving in Australian waters by boat.//

I questioned what was driving this pair when there is a far more serious issue which they seem to pay scant regard to.

//There is a much more serious problem of illegal immigration with more than 64,000 people overstaying visas in Australia. Despite this massive number of illegals arriving by air, the above two political parties seem to have no direct policy to combat the most serious of immigration problems.//

The 'Usual Suspect' these apologists for the blowhards and hot heads from One Nation and Australian Conservative parties jumped in claiming this issue of OVERSTAYERS WAS NOT A SERIOUS MATTER at all. One of them even found a few wishy-washy words from One Nation mob that was hardly a concrete policy on the problem of overstayers. They couldn't even find as much as a few words from Australian Conservatives, what so ever!

I then went on to show the clowns that overstayers were very much a serious problem, and a growing problem at that. Major crime is being committed by these people, 1.7 tonnes of ICE, 17 million street drug deals, leading to the deaths of who knows how many Australians.

An desperate attempt by one apologists at deflection onto Labor and The Greens, that ball is out of court.

All I have to say fellas is; Game, Set and Match to Paul1405, Your'e have been done like a dinner!

http://www.smh.com.au/public-service/more-than-64000-people-overstaying-visas-in-australia-20170718-gxddpj.html
ONLY A HANDFUL? much of what is said here is not even near true
Look at the link, see who it is from, then tell me much of what has been said here proves only some are uninterested in truth

Well the thread really hasn't been poor old Paul's finest hour. Apart from revealing himself as:

* Prepared to make unresearched assertions based on his mere desires that something be true

* Prepared to make incorrect assertions about what was actually said in the very same thread as though noone is capable of reading for themselves to see his errors

* Prepared to simply ignore facts if they don't gel with what he wants to be true

* Prone to throwing tantrums when proven wrong

* And after all that he declares that he won the discussion. So he's spectacularly delusional to go with all the rest.

And just for fun, a few more problems for poor old Paul....

He wrote: " these apologists..jumped in claiming this issue of OVERSTAYERS WAS NOT A SERIOUS MATTER at all."
In fact no one made that claim. Shadow did say that the overstayers were less of a problem than the boat people but that's as close as we get to Paul's silly assertion.

He wrote: "desperate attempt by one apologists at deflection onto Labor and The Greens"

Well that was me. But:

* I'm not an apologist for One Nations. Haven't voted for them and don't see any likelihood of it in the future. So not trying to defend them. But I am rather fond of the truth and I was trying to establish that. Paul won't understand that because for him denigrating the opponent is more important than being correct.

* it wasn't a deflection. Paul changed the terms of the topic by introducing the issue of drugs. I was merely following the logic (another term Paul struggles with) of his alteration of the topic.

Finally (and this really gives me a giggle). in addition to checking the platform of the Greens, I also checked the ALP and the Libs, None of them cover the overstayers. So in total contradiction to Paul's orginal made-up hopes, One Nation is the ONLY party with a policy on the plane people.

There's wrong, 100% wrong and then there's Paul.

After being thrashed 6-love, 6-love, 6-love, in a five setter. Outclassed and failing to return serve once, aced over and over, on centre court by Paul1405, mhaze is on some outer court now, out there on his own, with the lights off, thinking the match is still in progress. Although it was a singles game, mhaze enjoyed the advantage of a few doubles partners, however it did't improve the scoring, them like mhaze, were totally outclassed.

He has been foolish enough to throw up some more nonsense, so I better answer him.

I didn't included other minor parties as they have not tried to build a reputation on being tough on "illegals", as One Nation and the Australian Conservatives have. I questioned that toughness when it comes to overstayers.

The so called policy of One Nation, 17 vague words must have taken the Loverly Pauline all of 17 seconds to formulate. Well with Pauline not being the sharpest tool in the shed it might have taken her 3 weeks. The Australian Conservatives don't even have 17 words, they have nothing at all.

Of course the Coalition and Labor have a policy, its the policy that is in place now, they don't have to write it down, it plain to see. Both parties by default have a policy of maintaining the status quo on overstayers after the next election. Its not the policy I agree with, but the policy will only change if the overstayers hit Australia right between the eyes once too often. Then the government will be forced to change policy. The problem for government is to much of the available resources for boarder security is directed at the back door for political reasons, and that leaves little available to deal with the growing front door problem.

As I said the man is totally delusional.

BTW the One Nation policy runs to 45 words, which is 45 words more than any other party that we've found and 45 words more than poor old Paul thought existed. So innumerate as well.

Delusional, unethical, illogical and innumerate. The sort of chap you'd cross the street to avoid.

mhaze
a question are you sure your self confidence is not miss placed?
That you know more than the rest of us

Belly,

On this issue I didn't know more than anyone else.

But I knew enough to realise that Paul is won't to make unresearched claims based on what he hopes is true and that what he was saying smelt fishy.

So unlike some (no names, mind you, Belly) I knew enough to do my research and how to do my research. And my research proved that Paul was talking through his well-worn hat.

That some (no names, mind you, Belly) decided to believe Paul even after his claims were shown to be simply wrong, solely because they prefer the fantasy to the truth, suggests that, yes, I do know more than some here.

On page 6 mhaze claimed this was the official policy of One Nation

Supposedly from One Nations immigration policy:

"Unfortunately the increasing numbers of illegal migrants is sourced through our airports on visitors’ visas. A properly controlled visitor program will ensure tourists are welcome in Australia but ONE NATION will ensure that the detection of illegal migrants for deportation is properly funded and administered"

The pertinent 17 words are;

"ONE NATION will ensure that the detection of illegal migrants for deportation is properly funded and administered"

These 7 words are rather general and do not directly refer to "OVERSTAYERS".

On investigation of One Nations official web site under Federal Policies, there is an amount of nauseating nonsense, however these words are not contained in their 'IMMIGRATION AND RULE OF LAW' policy.

Where did you obtain this quote from mehaze? And please provide a link. I am not saying it is not there, and you made it up, but I could not find it. So....

BTW mhaze you are conveniently forgetting the other half of the dynamic due Burnardi and his Australian Conservatives, you failed to offer anything concrete at all as to official Australian Conservatives policy on OVERSTAYERS.....Well?

Hi Belly,

I was proud of Bill Shorten and the Labor Party yesterday. Despite disgusting tactics and claims from Scum O', and his rabble of a government. Labor stood up to be counted, giving voice to those poor sick wretches imprisoned indefinitely in the concentration camps on Manus and Nauru.

Bill is right we have to balance boarder security with humanity. If we jettison humanity totally in the name of security, what do we have? A Nazi style state where the citizens live in fear, with no freedoms, no liberties, just enforced control at the hands of the state.

Australians are a compassionate mob, and the mood of the electorate is turning, and many are questioning, are we doing the right thing with those refugees imprisoned indefinably off shore. Some of the very people who supported "off shore imprisonment" five years ago are now sickened by the governments stance. Once the government could drag out some poor defenceless refugee and give him a public kicking, with the cheering of the mob, figuratively speaking. now after all these years many of the mob are sickened and turned off by these public exhibitions, and the ridicule and torture of these defenceless people.

mhaze no names, some one ignores links that prove Paul may have understated the true numbers of over stayers
And the some one will not let the truth penetrate
Last nigh Scomo took his party to the edge and jumped off the cliff
He for some time, has been baking a cake using Howards Tampa recipe , to use fraudulent fear and loathing, to win this election
In terms used in my swimming in the creek out the back days he came a gutzer
No substance in his rants he can stand with Clive Palmer in the naughty boys corner for trying to use Trump like lies

Paul,

It's actually you that has scored an own goal, the criminals in question while being visa overstayers trying to import drugs were caught before importing the 1.7 tons of meth and will spend some time in an Aus jail before being deported, and the only cost to taxpayers is the cost of a decade in jail either here or in the US.

Your assumption that because a couple of felons abused the tourist visa, that most or everyone that does so is a felon is just the type of unsupported bollocks that makes your posts so phony.

That there is a string of rapists pedophiles and people traffickers resulting from Labor's boat people invasion completely outweighs any drivel you can pick up.

Shadow you really must be in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

//the criminals in question (a pair of Septic Tanks) while being visa overstayers trying to import drugs were caught before importing the 1.7 tons of meth//

Yes they were, but do you honestly expect that this pair were a couple of newbies on this first op of this kind.

Do you honestly expect that some Mr Big in Chicago or somewhere, would entrust the illegal importation into Australia of 1.7 tonnes of ICE worth hundreds of millions of dollars into the hands of a couple of first timers on their first operation. Even the forums most gullible wont swallow that.

Paul,

I don't think you realise how this works. You made a claim that the real illegal immigrant problem is visa overstayers citing that there were presently 64000 in the country.

Unfortunately for you the analysis clearly showed that the vast majority left shortly after their visas expired, and the real number that remained long term was closer to 1000 p.a. which was a drop in the bucket compared to the illegal boat immigrants.

Secondly you then tried to assert that these visa overstayers were costing Aus a fortune, but as none of them get welfare, medicare etc from the state, this claim also proved to be complete bollocks. You then gave the example of 2 criminals that overstayed and tried to import drugs as a negative example of these overstayers, that they were almost immediately caught and jailed destroyed that example.

As a final fling you now claim that there must be others that are similar. Well that is for you to please explain, and I assume that you have completely failed to find another example.

SM - 6
Paul - out for a duck

Shadow, the only figures I rely on are those supplied to the Senate hearing by the Departmental Officer giving evidence under oath. Not the rubbery figures that are a figment of your imagination. We are so fortunate that there are not more criminals among the 64,600 overstayers. Just a handful who want to import 1.7 tonnes of illegal drugs. You and this clueless government do not have any idea what some of these overstayers are up to.

You like the others who have tried to down play overstayers, and failed, you to have been beaten well and truly on this.

Paul,

I wasn't disputing your numbers just your slack arsed feeble analysis.

It was your words that admitted that only about 1000 overstayers get to stay for the long term, and you have yet to prove that any overstayers have cost the state even a tiny fraction of the $10bn that the illegal boat people have.

So you have failed on every score.

Shadow, I don't need //to prove that any overstayers have cost the state even a tiny fraction of the $10bn that the illegal boat people have.// I never made that claim. If Scum O'and the rest the mongrel mob want to waste that kind of taxpayer dosh on politics of trying to save their hides, then you should start a thread on that very topic.

The latest revelation; We are now getting 90 illegals a day by air!

Paul,

This is not new, of the roughly 20 000 overseas visitors every day roughly 90 overstay, and by your own statistics only about 3 of those stay for an extended time as most either leave by their own volition or are deported.

Note that of those that come by air and who are unable to burn their passports prior to arrival and claim asylum, very few succeed.

Paul1405 Quote "The Australian Federal Police and Victoria Police arrested six people in Victoria and NSW. Two of whom were US nationals residing illegally! OVERSTAYERS"

** I accept your 2 overstayer criminals and counter with 2 refugee criminals and 2 other Iranians. **

** The US nationals can be deported, Iran will not take their nationals back so we are stuck with them. **

Iranian refugee couple who came to Australia by boat 'busted flooding the streets of Sydney with ice' - as police seize 36 kilograms of the deadly drug, $260,000 cash and three luxury cars

An Iranian couple who arrived to Australia by boat five years ago have allegedly been flooding the streets of Sydney with the deadly drug 'ice'.

Ali Maleki and Yosra Rabieh, from the city's north-west, are two of several Iranians in Australia on temporary protection visas recently arrested over alleged meth trafficking, The Daily Telegraph reported.

The couple, who share two young daughters, were arrested last week after police allegedly seized more than 36kg of ice, over $260,000 in cash, three luxury cars and more than 100 ampules of steroids at homes in Hornsby and Asquith.

Maleki and Rabieh have each been charged with supply large commercial quantity of prohibited drugs and participate in a criminal enterprise.

A third Iranian has been charged with being an accessory after the fact of supplying drugs.

In a separate bust last week, two Iranian nationals were arrested in Sydney, allegedly trying to import almost 10 kilograms of ice hidden in honey jars on a cargo flight to Australia.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5433491/Iranian-refugee-couple-flood-streets-Sydney-ice.html

With mhaze and HenryL continually dropping the ball, the coach of the Rabid Right team Scum O' Morrison has brought on the 'B' grade reserve Shadow Minister. Shadow has picked up the ball, and is running with it, unfortunately he's running towards his own try line. They don't call him 'Wrong Way' Shadow for nothing, that's why he's the 'B' grade reserve!

Shadow admits there is a Jumbo Jet full of illegals arriving in Australia every week. However according to Shadow there is nothing to worry about as there are only 3, by his calculation, potential Carl Williams's or Tony Mockbel's, big time drug criminals, in the 90. I have news for you Shadow, we have enough home grown criminals, we don't need to import more. By Shadows rational' you have to be a long term overstayer before you graduate to the big time criminal class.

Anyway, why don't you go back to my original post, read it, and answer the questions.

Understanding that greens such as Kate fireman are often so drug addled that maths is difficult, I will use small words for you:

Given the long list of rapists, murderers, pedophiles, human traffickers, drug smugglers, terrorists etc that have been caught from the flood of illegals that the greens/labor imported, the two felons that overstayed their visa is a tiny drop in a very big ocean.

Secondly, as you freely admit, letting in illegals is a risk to our security, so you would logically support the boat turn backs, offshore processing etc. Another own goal by team gangreen.

Look what we have now, Shadow wants to give 'Get Out Of Jail Free' cards based on his perception of whether the criminal is a blow in thanks to the Greens, Labor or Liberal Parties. The Greens and Labor refugees get locked up, but the Liberal crooks go Scott free!
According to Shadow 1.7 tonnes of Ice is a tiny drop brought in by a couple of newbies on their first mission. Nothing at all to be concerned about!

How much ICE does a illegal overstayer have to try to import before you become concerned Shadow? 2, 3, 4, 100 tonnes, what's the figure? No room on the Jumbo Jet for the Ice with all those illegals occupying the seats. One Jumbo Jet full a week!

Paul1405 Here is one of your beloved refugees, there were lots like him arriving jacked up bodybuilders, refugees BS.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6715275/Yakiboy-vows-defend-charged-assault.html

Heavily tattooed 'Muslim soldier with a Lamborghini body', 29, vows to defend his name after he was charged with 'assaulting a men's accessories designer, 58, at the gym'

A hulking model famous for posting videos of his rippling muscles has vowed to defend a police charge, saying he was simply protecting his wife and did not assault anyone.

Police have alleged Instagram personality Hossein 'Yakiboy' Balapour, 29, assaulted a 58-year-old men's accessories designer outside a Sydney gym late last year.

Raymond Carl claimed the 197cm bodybuilder with gold teeth grabbed him by the throat after a morning gym session on December 1, a court document said.

Mr Balapour denies assaulting Mr Carl, telling police that he rushed to confront the bracelet-maker after his wife rang and he was worried she was in danger.

There are claims his wife had got into an argument with Mr Carl over gym equipment that morning.

The altercation on the street followed shortly afterwards, ending up with Mr Balapour in front of a court.

Mr Balapour is 'very disappointed police have sought to pursue a criminal charge in the circumstances,' his lawyer Abdul Reslan said.

'He will be defending the charge vigorously and is eager for the matter to be heard before the appropriate forum.'

'Protecting your wife is not a crime, nor should it be treated as such.'

Police documents said Mr Balapour confronted Mr Carl with the claim he had told his wife to 'f** off', which Mr Carl denied at the scene.

Mr Carl claimed that he was then grabbed by the throat, although his breathing was not cut off.

** message from one of the border force about what they had to put up with **
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/02/former-sas-trooper-john-anon-on-the-threat-from-illegal-people-smuggler-boats.html

I smell a rat, a bloody Liberal rat! The general argument from the forums rabid right, is we can't afford to spend money dealing with overstayers when we have to spend so much on asylum seekers. Hummmm! do we have to.

Well, when you give out a $420 million contract to a somewhat spurious outfit without any proper tender process, you might well ask where is the money to deal with other problems in migration.

What am I talking about? Front and Centre the 'Paladin Group' never heard of them, either had I until today. Well they have been given $420 million of taxpayers money without any competitive process in place to provide so called "security" to refugees on Manus Island, $1600.per day/per head. This company has its corporate headquarters in a shack on Kangaroo Island. Its head honch is some former mercenary from Rhodesia.

Dutton claims ignorance, Porter is in a muddle. What a circus.

Wont read about this one in the grubby UK gutter press.

"Penny Wong says it’s ‘deeply concerning’ a company with ‘such a poor track record’ was awarded a lucrative sum through closed tender"

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/17/coalition-argues-future-labor-government-could-soften-rules-on-medevac

Paul1405, Here is another rat you can smell from Germany, Australia won't give out the figures.

"Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees reported that only 35% of the migrants who arrived in Germany since 2015 have found work."

Person above, I do not engage in palaver with a FORUM ABUSER. Although an apology to the abused well could see a change in disposition. Until then consider yourself "persona non grata" with one Paul1405.

The above statement is not necessarily absolute. But it will do for now.

Quote "The above statement is not necessarily absolute. But it will do for now."

I like it, translated to English when I can't refute a stated point I will ignore it BUT if I can refute an argumented point I will.

Typical cop out.

Quote " I do not engage in palaver with a FORUM ABUSER."

Expect a compilation of your abuse to others in a few days, let others judge who is the abuser.

Paul,

On this thread you have been both free with the abuse and economical with the truth. Not only do you deliberately misrepresent the statistics, but you also deliberately lie about the intent in what we said.

The only example of criminality of the "overstayers" is one bunch of hopeless crims who failed to land a single ounce of drugs in the country. The vast majority don't cost the state more than a tiny fraction of what the boat illegals do.

On the other side are tens of thousands of economic migrants who having already cost the country well in excess of $10 000 0000 000 cost many millions each year in welfare.

That overstayers are problem, no one is denying, but to claim that they are more of a problem than the boat people is either a delusion or deliberate lie.

Ah! Shadow,

How to invent rubbery figures, type the number "1" then hold down the zero key until your figure get to tied and you let go.

Presto, what do you have 100000000000 a Shadow rubbery figure as to what //economic migrants who having already cost the country//.

Wake up and say hallo world! The big news is now 'Çhumgate' with Cormann, and a conga line of Liberal chumps flying around free with Hallowrld. Then there is Joe Hockey pushing the Liberal chum Halloworld CEO and Liberal Party treasurer Burns barrow to win a big government contract. Its revealed Hockey has a $1,000,000 investment in Halloworld. Got to get what they can, before they get kicked out in May.

Paul, Cormann paid for his fare. Another fail on your part!

Yeah Josephus, yesterday after the jurnos came around a knock n' on his door to tell him the jig was up!

When the thief is caught stealing from the cookie jar, as long as he puts the cookies back when caught, all is forgiven.

Hockey is the next big target, and Morrison will be shown to have lied to the parliament over Hockey's involvement. Its 'Chumgate'!

How many Liberal Party politicians have had free trips, complements of 'Halloworld', 14 out of 82 when asked said they hadn't, what about the rest? Its 'Chumgate'.

Paul were the trips at taxpayer expense?

Josephus, if you have to ask such a silly question, then either you are so one eyed Liberal, or you don't have a clue what might be political corruption.

Set up 'Dumbo Incorporated', then wine and dine all the Coalition politicians in Canberra, and give each one $10,000 cash. All this while you are seeking a lucrative government contract worth billions. Then they vote to give you that contract, goodness gracious how fortunate you were.

AND, it didn't cost the taxpayers a cent! Some people are clueless!

Interesting. Paul1405 this must be fake news as it is from the dailymail.

Taxpayers spent $50MILLION fighting asylum claims from 22,000 Malaysians over three years – and only 129 of them were genuine refugees

Thousands of false asylum claims from Malaysian citizens have cost Australian taxpayers nearly $50million, according to reports.

More than 22,000 Malaysians have flown to Australia seeking protection in the past three years, but only 129 have been found to be real claims of persecution, The Herald Sun reported.

This week, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal revealed many of the petitions filed were found to be 'vague,' 'undetailed' and had 'illogical evidence.'

The findings have led officials to fear that the fast-track electronic travel system - which is available to citizens from seven other countries - has created an easy pathway for foreign criminals.

Currently, Malaysians are able to apply and obtain a visa within three days for only $20.

And while thousands are denied asylum each year, the appeal process itself could encourage foreigners to remain in the country while they wait for a decision.

In fact, 13,000 Malaysians have filed to overturn the rejection in the last three years, and many of them have either stayed on bridging visas or illegally, the outlet reported.

Immigration officials have been cracking down on Malaysian citizens, but reports reveal a total of 64,000 foreigners have flown to Australia seeking protection since July 2013.

The parliamentary committee will reveal its plan for immigration reform in a report on Thursday.

Liberal MP Jason Wood, the committee chairman, said the problem has 'clogged' the system and allowed for organised crime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6726721/Australian-taxpayers-spend-50M-false-asylum-claims.html

Jobs for the boys, Morrison stacking the appeal tribunals.

AAT appointments with Coalition links:

• Former Liberal Senator Stephen Parry, appointed for a seven year term

• Former Nationals MP De-Anne Kelly

• Former Liberal MP Robert Baldwin

• Former South Australian state Liberal MP Steven Griffiths

• Former West Australian Liberal MP Joseph Francis

• Former Malcolm Turnbull adviser Tony Barry

• Former Alexander Downer adviser Phoebe Dunn

• Former Jeff Kennett Chief of Staff John Griffin

• Stephen Barton, former adviser to a West Australian Liberal Minister

• Dawn Fitzgerald, former Chief of Staff to West Australian Liberal Minister

• Former West Australian Liberal Senate candidate Michael Sutherland.

• Queensland LNP adviser Dominic Katter

• Ian Fletcher, former Chief of Staff to a West Australian Liberal Premier

Paul,

One of Juliar's refugees:

An Iranian refugee who moved to Australia in search of a "land of freedom and opportunity" has appeared before a Sydney court, charged with being one of two alleged ringleaders of a drug syndicate conspiring to smuggle $36 million worth of ice into Australia.

And your point is Shadow? Oh! yes, we should let your pair of Septic Tanks go free because we have caught an Iranian refugee. Well how about if guilty we lock up the Iranian. AND if guilty lets lock up the Septic Tanks as well. Now that must be rather irksome to a bloke like you locking up the good guys as well.

This looks like a point. Like usual Paul1405 will ignore it or jump up and down saying it is from the dailymail so must be fake.

More than 60 Nauru and Manus Island asylum seekers fail criminal tests - including some feared to be involved in terrorism

More than 60 asylum seekers on Nauru and Manus Island have failed criminal tests as they are linked to cases of violent crimes and even terrorism.

The individual records of asylum seekers have now begun being assessed by the Department of Home Affairs as some may be eligible to transferred to Australia to receive medical treatment.

Crimes which have been revealed include the planning of terrorist attacks, drug smuggling, rape, assaults, alleged murder and links to rebel groups.

One man was even found to be secretly sending funds of more than $1 million to communities in Australia.

The medivac bill which passed last week allows asylum seekers to be transferred to Australia if doctors agree they require medical or psychiatric treatment.

According to Attorney-General Christian Porter, the changes to the legislation mean that it will be harder to send patients back after they receive medical treatment.

'The bad drafting of these laws means it is a one-way ticket,' Mr Porter told ABC Breakfast radio.

However the Labor government claim the bill is designed to relocate asylum seekers temporarily before sending them back.

The Department of Home Affairs will continue to assess the criminal records of asylum seekers as hundreds could be transferred to Australia.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6731789/More-60-Nauru-Manus-Island-asylum-seekers-failed-criminal-tests.html

On page 23 I posted appointments to tribunals.
Here are the salaries they will receive.

AAT members are paid up to $244,520 a year, while senior members are paid up to $384,250.

The tribunal's new deputy president, retired Family Court chief justice John Pascoe, will receive a salary of $486,820.

The job of the independent tribunal is to review administrative decisions, usually made by government departments, on their merits.

Some of its decisions – particularly on migration matters – have been labelled "infuriating" by Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton.

Shadow attorney-general Mark Dreyfus said the appointments showed the Coalition was "only in it for themselves".

"The government has a shameful record on stacking the AAT with Liberal donors, former MPs, former staffers and mates – but it has outdone itself today," he said.

Mr Dreyfus also committed a Labor government to introducing a "transparent merits-based policy to judicial appointments".

Labor MP Rob Mitchell tweeted that Mr Parry's appointment to the tribunal was "crooked". He said he did not know whether a Labor government could or would sack Mr Parry, but "its [sic] a joke all these failures are on the AAT".

Paul1405 will you put them up for a few weeks?

Long-term residents forced out of apartments for asylum seekers

Long-term residents of an inner-city Brisbane apartment building have been told to move out to make way for asylum seekers.

Sources have told 7News the entire top floor of the apartment block had been housing asylum seekers for the past fortnight.

Holiday suites which offer “LCD flat screen TVs and air-conditioning” are being used as detention cells with private security keeping close watch.

A detainee was filmed being taken out of the complex on Friday morning to Brisbane Immigration Transit Accommodation Centre in Pinkenba, in the city’s east.

Long-term residents were sent termination notices telling them because of “changes to internal policies extended stays are no longer to be offered to the public”.

“This notice hereby gives you five days’ notice to vacate the premises,” the letter reads.

Evicted resident Sheena Manikiwai said people “with handcuffs” were seen walking into the building.

“It’s totally unfair, it’s evil,” she said.

Another resident, who walks with the assistance of canes, said she had nowhere to go.

“I wonder why they’re here and why they weren’t remaining at Nauru,” she said.

“I’m pissed off.”

A hotel manager denied the accusations and that termination notices had been sent when asked by 7News.

Australian Border Force said unlawful non-citizens were being accommodated in the community where possible, but only where they are deemed not to pose a threat.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/long-term-residents-forced-asylum-seekers-082456047.html

Paul,

Talking of septic tanks, How about the CFMEU Leader convicted of raping a woman and filming it. Sounds a bit like Shorten.

Yep Shadow,

Lock him up in a cell next to Hockey, Cormann, Cash, Wilson, etc, couldn't agree more.

Still didn't get your point about the Iranian bloke, were you suggesting we should let the two Septic Tanks out, cause they're your kinda guys, and lock up the Iranian refo, is that what you're on about?

I think we should save boat people (IMA's) the trip and pick them up directly from refugee camps. But wait up, isn't that what we do, with control over numbers?

Visa over-stayers will always be a problem but to blend the boats question into it is obfuscatory nonsense.

Immigration numbers for refugees are capped. Every boat arrivee and visa over-stayer granted residency displaces a refugee awaiting resettlement in a camp. The claim there is no queue ignores this.

Paul,

This is where your mental ability comes into question. Is a CFMEU convicted felon the same as someone that may have accepted a favour from a supporter? If so the entire Labor and greens parties would be locked up.

As for the Iranian refugee/ drug smuggler, that is a very recent example of the damage done by a long list of felons that came by boat, compared to the one old case of an overstayer who got caught.

Stick to the topic.

Stick to the topic Shadow, what has this CFMEU bloke got to do with the topic, unless of course he was also an overstayer.

//damage done by a long list of felons that came by boat// Could you put up that list, I want to see if its as long as you say it is.

I still remember how wrong you were with the 'Beat Up' Bolt case, the arrest is imminent nonsense. Maybe your list is also nonsense.

I see that you are lying again about the assault on Bolt by Left whinge thugs.

The CFMEU rapist has nothing to do with this thread, but lots to do about your attempts to divert it.

If you want a list of refugee rapists drug dealers etc, feel free to do the research yourself. You can start with the refugee that beat his wife to death with a bicycle.