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The Forum > General Discussion > Steady 8 % Growth in Indigenous Uni Performance

Steady 8 % Growth in Indigenous Uni Performance

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Statistics for 2017 have been released, only four months late. Award-level Indigenous commencements at uni have increased by 8.7 % on 2016 figures, to 7297 students, and enrolments by a massive 10.7 %, to 19,200. Graduate numbers rose by 10.9 %, to 2,527. Post-graduate students make up about 20 % of all enrolments and graduations. These are federal Education Department figures, which may be under-estimating real numbers by 20 %.

To put these figures into perspective, the number of 20- or 22-year-old Indigenous people is around 14,000. So the equivalent of more than half of such age-groups are participating at universities each year. Not exactly Third-World numbers.

Since 2007, Indigenous commencements have risen by 120 %, or roughly a steady 8 % each year. Total graduate numbers are now approaching 60,000, or one in every seven Indigenous adults. Indigenous women continue to outnumber Indigenous men by two to one at universities, even if many are more likely to be encumbered with children. At current rates, it is very likely that there could be a hundred thousand Indigenous university graduates by 2025, or one in every five or six adults - one in four of all adult Indigenous women, one in eight of all adult Indigenous men.

The most outstanding universities in 2017 were Charles Sturt, Newcastle, QUT and Griffith. From 2007 to 2017, the best performing universities in relation to Indigenous students and graduates were Charles Sturt, New England, CQUniversity, Griffith, QUT and Tasmania.

Universities which persist in trying to channel Indigenous people into Indigenous-focussed courses have stagnated, while others which focus on encouraging Indigenous students to enrol in whatever courses they prefer have flourished.

I suspect that the major reason for such healthy growth has been the role-model effect of previous graduates and as more Indigenous students graduate, future numbers growth may snowball rather than slow down. I also suspect that many universities are ‘turn-stile’ universities, with Indigenous people enrolling on their own initiative rather than with the encouragement or involvement of Indigenous university programs or staff, beavering away on their own careers in ‘Indigenous research’.
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 29 October 2018 7:59:50 PM
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That sounds like good news. From what I've heard, the indigenous populations have an undercurrent culture of abuse towards their own populations. Not matter the critisms of universities and higher learning are, one thing int Hem is the culture to put a stop to abuse. This is a good thing for more of that population to go to colleges and universities and potentially change that part of their culture.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 1:39:43 AM
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Hi Joe,

Education brings new opportunity, and therefor better outcomes. Growth in indigenous learning with go a long way to improving the lot of disadvantaged people.

A while back I was talking with a nephew, university educated/qualified, he is a male Councillor in the Queensland prison system. He works a lot with Islander and Aboriginal blokes, The life stories of many of these guys is so horrendous its a wonder they reach the age to go to jail. None of them got an education, no job skills, totally alienated in society, some very hard bastards among them indeed. Successes are few and far between, but there are those that do turn around, a few.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 4:37:09 AM
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Good news NNN while it is true please know whites have failed to other than harm any move toward better out comes
We are no better the the once United states in the way we treated our first people.
Paternalistic often driven by the belief their only future was in being bred out of existence.
last night on the TV channel put aside for such people a family I know well had center stage in a town not far away their treatment over the last one hundred years was horrific
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 5:57:34 AM
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Loudmouth, I do not dispute the figures, which are cause for hope, but I would like a link to the source please. I tried googling obvious terms, such as Education Department and Indigenous but cannot find the report containing the data you cite.
Posted by byork, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 8:27:50 AM
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Hi Barry,

The data is/are available on: https://www.education.gov.au/selected-higher-education-statistics-2017-student-data

The bare data is there if you look for it, there isn't any special report, and if my suspicions about the Indigenous elites is on the mark, there never will be. Except maybe for a well-out-of-date grizzle about how nothing's changing, using figures from 2006, no matter how much incredible sweat and tears they put into caring for their own people. That sort of self-serving BS.

To re-iterate: annual commencements exceed 50 % of an equivalent age-group, and have done so for some years now. With post-grad enrolments making up about 20 % of commencements, this suggests that about the equivalent of 42% of an age-group commences uni study these days. And increasing by 6-8 % p.a. More than 17,000 Indigenous people were enrolled in standard award-level courses at uni last year, also rising around 8-10 % p.a. In 2017, more than 2,500 Indigenous students graduated from uni, making a combined total now of nearly sixty thousand. Ed. Dept figures may be under-estimating real totals by 20-25 %.

Over the years, I've put together a database, some of which goes back to 1989, of commencements, continuations, enrolments, graduations, half-year data, gender data, institutional data, etc., and it's available from me at: joelane94@internode.on.net

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:30:25 AM
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This is not necessarily a good thing Joe. Given that the reputation of the university industry is now on a par with that of the banking and insurance industry, anyone not wanting to join the professions such as medicine and engineering, would be better served taking up options other than universities.

I don't know, of course, but I suspect that these aboriginal students would be politically inclined, given that their entire existence has been politicised, and we really don't need more ratbag activists being spat out of a system that even academics working in it believe needs a good shakeup and loss of public funding because of it's politicisation and increasing intolerance of free speech.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:31:15 AM
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Joe, Thank you for the link. It's excellent data, and I noticed that the biggest increase in Indigenous enrolments was in Information Technology. It's strange how some can continue to assert that nothing has changed. I remember when the first Aboriginal man graduated with a full degree, back in the 1960s. It was front page news.
Posted by byork, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:53:35 AM
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ttbn, that is the typical bigoted racism that has been evident for years. Don't educate the darkies, next thing you know they will want equality with their betters, they will want what the white mans got. Besides they are too dumb to be educated, and they are only fit for the most menial of employment.

//Given that the reputation of the university industry is now on a par with that of the banking and insurance industry,// Only with you and other rednecks.

//I don't know, of course, but I suspect that these aboriginal students would be politically inclined// That's right you don't know, and you wouldn't know, you are clueless.

Whenever there is talk of improvement for Indigenous people there is always some racists redneck who thinks its a bad idea.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 10:06:51 AM
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Paul,

Stop drinking! There is nothing “racist” about my post. I didn't say “Don't educate the darkies”. It's all in you addled mind.

You are a nasty, out-of-control wreck, who probably hates himslelf as much as he hates everybody else. I now see that it was an insult to even Foxy that I linked you to her.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 10:29:23 AM
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I think the real test for progress is real jobs other than those created by Government funding. Real jobs should decrease domestic violence, drug taking and lawlessness.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 10:37:11 AM
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Ttbn,

I'm not so sure that the elites have as much control over Indigenous students. Anecdotally, while every university may have spaces for Indigenous students, I get the idea that not many students use them, except socially between themselves, without much involvement from Indigenous staff. I'm sure there are exceptions, but most staff - even those explicitly employed to provide support - move away as quickly as they can into 'genuine' academia, to work on their careers, grab the scholarships available and aim for a professorship.

Indigenous students these days are more likely to have graduate parents, and to be intent on getting through their studies and into employment. There's one of the problems: a major source of employment is in areas controlled by the Indigenous Industry. Employment agencies defer to 'consultants' who pick and choose who gets into employment at all.

Perhaps, as you indicate, many if not most Indigenous graduates find themselves forced into taking such jobs when they originally just wanted a mainstream job. If they have powerful relations, they might grab at an Industry-chosen no-work position, and join the elite at its lower levels. If their study area is not amenable to that, say Surveying or Accounting or Conservation Management, they they have a hard time finding work.

One striking feature of Indigenous academic 'research' focus is how few, if any, go on to do research into Indigenous participation at universities (surely their bread and butter): I know of such academics focussing on housing, gambling, aromatherapy, on proving that Dreaming stories are literally true, or that people lived in such-and-such a place - anything but higher education issues.

So I suspect that most students are going it alone, with mutual support but little from academics. Still, the growth in numbers won't slow down soon: like anybody else, Indigenous students (and their parents) want to get somewhere and higher ed is their way to do it. Working-class jobs are out, not many go into trades, so uni is the major pathway these days.

How their aims are corrupted by the Industry is another sorry story.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 11:35:56 AM
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A third are in Culture and Society courses. 21% in Health and 13% in Education courses. According to the data.

No idea how this compares to non-Indigenous but it would be good to see more in areas like Science, Technology and Engineering
Posted by byork, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 12:02:21 PM
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Hi Barry,

Yes, indeed: but there were four times as many graduates in 2017 in Architecture as in 2005; nearly four times as many in IT; nearly three times as many in Management and Commerce. All from small bases.

Society & Culture includes Arts, Humanities, Performing Arts, etc. Graduate numbers in these fields rose only by 78 % since 2005. Annual Education graduate numbers rose only by 48 %, to 372, but given that this is a field of study which has long been popular, with around eight thousand qualified Indigenous teachers now, this isn't too surprising.

The Sciences require solid secondary-school preparation over five years: there aren't too many short-cuts possible. I helped to run a one-year intensive Bridging Course for Conservation Management students (the first and only such course) with a very heavy emphasis on Biology, which none of the students had studied in school. Eventually, half of our course was Biology, but the students still had trouble with it when they transitioned to the mainstream course.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 12:57:27 PM
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ttbn, you claim you're not being racists, but you said university education of Indigenous is is not necessarily a good thing, and one reason for that, according to you is more "ratbag activists" are being spat out. Your great fear is these so called ratbag activists, those educated Aboriginals who through education can articulate and demand what is right for their people. You don't like those sorts, you never take the side of a minority, content to leave things as they are, tolerating injustice for the sake of maintaining the status quo, and the privileged position of some. If that's not a form of racism, what is it?

Your spray has no effect on me. I hope you get all the love you deserve.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 10:27:47 PM
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I say the same thing about white ratbags you damn fool. Your super sensitivity to imagined racism must have something to do with your marriage to a Maori woman. You are the one who has problems with race. I'll bet your wife is aware of it, and probably feels most uncomfortable with your fixation. She has my sympathy.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 11:01:19 PM
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Not at all ttbn, its just I can pick a racists when I see one. The fact you are down on some white folk is neither here nor there. Its easy to understand where you are coming from.

Trying the personal attack gets you nowhere, you're still a racists.

Explain why the so called "ratbag activists" are such a bad thing.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 31 October 2018 12:05:46 AM
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Ttbn,

Indigenous people have as much right to be ratbags as you do, and I would defend your right to continue to be a ratbag. I don']t know where you get the idea that Indigenous students are more 'radical' than any others. In my experience, they were far more concerned - especially those who eventually graduate - about their studies. In fact, I can't really recall all that any students being 'radical' ratbags, only one here and there over the years, at least from 1981 to about 2005.

Of course, once they graduate and look for work, the quota system seems to work two ways: it confines them to the Indigenous domain under the control of the Industry and its associated white bureaucracy; and shuts them out from the mainstream. Employment agencies defer to 'consultants' and 'elders' who screen out those not known for sycophancy to 'leaders' or 'elders' and loyal to the Narrative.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Indigenous people have as much right to education, to the highest levels, as you do. You can quibble (like many on the 'left' do actually, Ttbn, they're so worried that Indigenous people will lose their culture and, worse, get - horrors ! - assimilated) but that's the situation and their right from the point of view of equal opportunity.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 31 October 2018 10:44:27 AM
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Dear Loudmouth,

I was talking to an indigenous young lady last week at a ministerial announcement. She was quiet and unassuming on the face of it but told me she was often faced with the assumption she was 'dumb'. She is currently doing her masters and said it there was little disguising the disbelief some people expressed when they learned of her expertise.

Disadvantage of course still exists but affirmative action goes a long way. I was recently speaking to a neighbour who was questioning the extra 'legup' he felt aboriginal people got.

I knew his son goes to a particular high school which is deemed 'under represented in university applicants' so gets from memory 3 points added to their enter score. They are also deemed 'rural' so get a couple more. I asked if he was okay with that kind of affirmative action.

This kind of rubbish pisses me off though;

“The Indigenous affairs minister, Nigel Scullion, gave almost half a million dollars to fishing and cattlemen’s groups to argue how they might be negatively impacted by land rights claims. The funds are earmarked for alleviating Indigenous disadvantage.”
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/31/indigenous-advancement-funding-redirected-to-cattlemen-and-fishing-groups?CMP=soc_567&fbclid=IwAR1kanL3PvuP9AQB3IKHCXFqDImNlo0e7LejMMY9_ZZkiPDI6PoBvJCb7ao
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 31 October 2018 11:41:30 AM
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Joe,

I do not think I actually said any of the things you think I did, nor do I think them. However,as I said elswhere, I am well over arguing about things that nobody here has any say in or control over. There are no prizes for the most popular opinion, and futile arguments have be begun to really piss me off. We are, after all, just expressing opinions. Some posters here really should swap OLO for a punching bag.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 31 October 2018 11:56:01 AM
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Barry, Paul & SR,

Attrition is still a problem - in 2016-2017, as in previous years, it hovered around 30 %. Apart from Adelaide, sandstone universities have much lower attrition rates by virtue of being much more restrictive (or selective) and not going out their way to recruit Indigenous students.

There are some surprises: Western Sydney Uni and Wollongong Uni both had comparatively low attrition rates, at 19 %. Western Australian universities (apart from Notre Dame) have disturbingly high attrition rates, averaging 39 %, which suggests that their support services are not functioning optimally.
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 1 November 2018 1:51:02 PM
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Hi Joe,

"Attrition is still a problem", has anyone done any research as to the reasons. How does indigenous rates compare to the overall rate. The reasons could be interesting, and does that include students dropping one course and then taking up another.

It gets up my nose when anyone attacks tertiary education for young indigenous people. I see the results with some of my nieces and nephews etc, I have several in my own family in their 30's now, and its through tertiary ed that they have got very good jobs in a wide range of fields. They have the same aspirations, and the same problems as the rest of us, being part of the Kiwi brain drain. Who can blame them, the money and ops are better here in Aussie than back home in NZ.

I have a favourite niece, one of many, whose big issue at the moment is getting a home loan, wanting to get out of the renting cycle, been in this rented house for 7 years, and buy their own home, have a reasonable amount of savings. It shouldn't be a problem, with her working 4 days a week (has Friday off from her government job) and him doing up to 60 hours a week in the building trade, 4 school aged children, so need a large house. Wanting to stay in the same area as now, with schools etc, so the "gap" to be filled is a problem, and the fact they have been looking at large house 4 beds etc for the kids is proving difficult. A bit concerned about the repayments not being unmanageable, and getting a long term loan, say 30 years would be better. She went to the bank last Friday, so might have some good news if she calls in today.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 2 November 2018 4:27:29 AM
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A funny one Joe,

My son came to me a while back, and asked "Dad how much aboriginal blood have I got, Nanna was aboriginal (my mother)?" Well I said "I've got around 1/32, so that makes you about 1/64 aboriginal, why?". "I want to see what I can get, for being aboriginal." I said; "I think with 1/64 you are entitled to 4/5 of FA!, keep working son!"
Not content with that, later he comes back with; "An aboriginal mate told me, all I have to do is get a tribe to swear I'm a member, and I'm in... so what tribe am I in?". I said; "I know what tribe I'm in (one located around Wellington NSW), but you're in the Loony tribe, so keep working son!". He keeps at me, wanting to know his ancestry, I tell him "When I was a boy, 'Old Man Aboriginal' when he came with his tribe of kids etc, drove a big old car, something from the 1940's, and he always had his head under the bonnet, what else do you want to know?"
My mother always hid her aboriginal ancestry by claiming her relatives all came from the Island of Mauritius. then when she got old, about 80, if I said "Mum you're part aboriginal" She would say; "No I'm not, my mothers ancestors came from the Pyrenees Mountains, and they were Spanish, that's why we were dark." According to a cousin who did a family history the truth lies closer to home. I think Mum had her reasons, back in the days it wasn't a great thing to be part aboriginal married to a white man, like my grand parents were, better to come from Mauritius or the Pyrenees or somewhere else, but not from out west near the Macquarie River.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 2 November 2018 5:09:48 AM
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Hi Paul,

Good advice ! But it's very tempting for people with some ancestry to find ways to get a leg-up. Of course, then they often fall into the arms of the Indigenous Industry and are trapped.

By the way, that Mauritius link: it's quite possible. There were many African, African-American, Malagasy etc. people in Australia in the nineteenth century, at least in South Australia, including one bloke from Mauritius who married a woman from Pt Pearce Mission. For some time, he claimed rations from the Protector until the Protector tumbled: I think then his wife left him. If you check out my web-site: www.firstsources.info on the Protector's Letters Page, Volume 7, look up these letters: Deconcey or (Cram), [Mauritian/West Indian], letter numbers: 77b, 249a, 635, 664a, 671b, 698b, 729a, 766a. You never know :)

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 2 November 2018 9:16:08 AM
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Can anyone with access to the stats tell me around what period was there a sharp rise in enrollments of so called abo uni students?
You see Paul has just vindicated me and my on-going exposing of the great 'abo lie'.
Instigated and promoted of course, by the great scum-bag ministers, all feeding off the funding intended for the 'real' abo's.
Just like Bropho said once in a radio interview, that he wanted 'all these wannabee abo's to stop trying to muscle in on the handouts and assistance intended for the 'real' and 'true' abo's'.
Paul's story finally puts paid to the great 'abo rip-off'.
I understand, if you guys accept the truth, (what I'm saying) you have to give up a lot of the perks you get by calling yourselves an abo.
I wonder how many of these uni abo's have pure blood abo parent's?
Yeah, exactly, that's what I thought.
So stop patting yourselves on the back, they can call themselves abo's as much as they like, they are guilty of theft and deception and mis-leading the system, because they are anything but abo's, just based on Paul's discussion with his son, as one such example.
There are so many bad things about this new abo attitude, for example what a disgraceful bunch of ingrates.
They pick out the one ancestor they can 'use up' for their own selfish and pathetic gain, at the expense of ALL the other ancestors that came before and after the abo ancestor.
So these, 'so called' abo's at uni, I say categorically, they are ALL just plain Aussie's with an abo ancestor somewhere in their past.
I will cede to any abo students who's parents are BOTH of original abo blood or lineage, without any foreigner in their family history.
So then, let's re-visit those uni attendance figures by abo's again, only this time, let's remove the one's who are not of pure blood.
Ah, that's more like it, as I said, nothing like the BS fantasy your all trying to oush, just to make you feel good.
LIARS!
Posted by ALTRAV, Friday, 2 November 2018 6:18:29 PM
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So-called Alt Rav,

Across Australia, the figures for Indigenous enrolments from 1970, each five years, was something like:

1970. 100
1975. 200
1980. 400
1985. 800
1990. 2000

The rest you can look up yourself if you go to my web-site: www.firstsources.info and check out the Higher Education page. The data there goes only up to 2016, I can't make changes for some reason.

Anyway, this year, 2018, I expect that the figures are more like: 20,000.

Graduate numbers have risen from the first in the late forties (usually teachers and nurses) to maybe a hundred by 1970, to five hundred by 1980, to 3,300 by 1990, 13,400 by 2000 and 29400 by 2010. At the end of this year, graduate numbers should come close to sixty thousand. 60,000.

i.e. people with Indigenous ancestry. How much - I don't give a flying f.... toss. Shove your pig-ignorant racism up your arse, Alt Rave.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 2 November 2018 7:17:11 PM
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No Loudmouth shove it up yours, you arrogant ignorant pig.
You are part of the reason we have racism here today you small minded insignificant, little man.
Trying to boost figures by exaggerating is LYING.
You just shat on your own feet by telling that story about your son.
You bang on about crap just to try and boost the abo stance.
They don't need any more liars to help them, they're doing quite well by themselves.
Racism,HUH, you should be so lucky.
It's ALL these lies that have led to the abo being downgraded to the social levels they are today, and no end of BS by you or anyone else is going to change that.
You want to know why I bag the sh!t out certain people or groups, like pollies etc, it's because they tell lie's.
I don't give flying fig if a wog a skip or a pom go to uni or not, but I do care if what they say is BS.
Then I will attack them in any way I can to bring them back to there rightful place.
So smart-arse, unless you can prove that ALL these wonders of academia, suddenly got up one morning with the IQ of a doctor and are ALL pure bloods, (not half, quarter or 1/64th breeds) they are Aussies with a piss-ant amount of abo in them.
They're not abo's, so stop lying and trying desperately to make these people out to be what turns YOU on to help YOU with YOUR agenda.
So we have more Aussies with a drop of abo blood going to uni, so what?
You wouldn't want to consider that it just might be the 63/64th's that might be the reason they're at uni in the first place?
No, I didn't think so.
Get it through your thick skull the stats were very clear from 100 years or more ago.
The odd full blood made it to uni, with the help and encouragement of the white folk because they wanted to see them work towards a better and self sufficient life.
Posted by ALTRAV, Friday, 2 November 2018 8:23:39 PM
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Joe, I have to side with you on this one, 'cause my son wants to be a "tosser" proves nothing, and I think he is only half serious anyway.

I don't know a lot about the "benefits" of being Aboriginal and what doors it might open in regards to education, and therefore future job opportunities. I can only speak about my own family which as you know is Maori, and how they have got along with the benefits of education. Is it the same, as one niece said to me; "Uncle, when us Maori kids leave school, the girls go to collage, and the boys go to jail." Are the Aboriginal girls doing better than the boys, like Maori kids are?
My (step)daughter said recently, where ever the indigenous people are in the minority throughout the world, Aboriginal, Maori, Native Americans etc, they are always the poorest educated in society, with the highest unemployment, lowest incomes, worse housing, high crime rates, etc etc, and that is true.

Just on my (step)daughter, she was very good at school, top of the class it seems. Mum (my wife now) and Dad (deceased) worked bloody hard to put her through school and later collage, went without a lot, and got little help from the NZ government, never looked for help in doing so. Now nearly 40 (next year big party, one daughter 40, one son 50 and wife 70 all at the same time of year, yep triple party) daughter has a very good job as a Logistics Manager in Brisbane, she is doing some course at the moment to go higher, even though she has two school aged kids, husband and a house to manage, with a full time job. Although she is lucky, she works one or two days a week from home, most weeks.

And the thing that is so hard to fathom, is with this better education, jobs, and higher incomes, Indigenous people become so "normal", just like the rest of us. I can't understand it, LOL.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 2 November 2018 10:37:32 PM
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Hi Paul,

Yes, two-thirds of Indigenous students, year after year, are female. They may get pregnant, they may have to stay home and look after the younger kids, they may have to cop other disadvantages, but still they out-number the blokes two to one.

Perhaps one reason is the gender-stereotyping of uni courses: teaching and nursing and social work are looked on as female, science and management courses are look on as male BUT you need solid secondary schooling in Phys, Chem, Maths and maybe Biology to get into those courses, and Indigenous students don't seem to be taking those secondary school options. So the boys cut themselves out of uni.

One of my brothers married a Ngapuhi (Nahi) from out west of Whangarei and he has two wonderful daughters, both very strongly Maori, trying to make sure their kids speak Maori as well as English. But I notice that the kids speak English amongst themselves. After all, it's all around them. So, even with hundreds of thousands of speakers of Maori, proponents have a never-ending job maintaining the language. So far more so over here, with hundreds of languages, each with maybe only a few hundred speakers of the basic 'kitchen' language, and very few attempts to 'Indigenise' the very words, the English words, that everybody uses every day. Different folks, different strokes.

Anyway, I suspect that Indigenous female graduates will keep dominating, keep marrying non-Indigenous partners and raising their kids as Indigenous - after all, we take our identity more from our mothers than from our fathers. Whether people are pale or dark, whether they have some small or large fraction of Indigenous DNA, that's how they see themselves honestly and (more or less) only. Racists find that impossible to understand, with their psychotic obsession with fractions, as if people dance solely to their DNA, regardless of who or what their mother is.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 3 November 2018 3:47:42 PM
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Paul, still crapping on I see.
Your son is not a loser, he is in fact quite smart by the sounds of it.
Unlike your lying about not knowing about the benefits of being an abo, your son is quite smart, because he has been making enquiries, possibly through his mates.
And good on him.
If there are benefits going and he qualifies, there's nothing wrong with that.
Thankfully he is still young enough and hopefully innocent enough to have not yet adopted the 'greed and averace' disease of your elk.
I truly hope he remains an innocent and wonderful child as they all are at young age.
As for you and your mates, too late, you've gone over to the DARK side, (ha ha get it?).
The force is strong in you Paul.
If you wanna' call yourself tree stump or white cloud, I have no problem with that.
They are 'names' and do not relate to your race or creed.
But when you call yourself a certain race because 'you say so', you can bet I and MILLIONS of other thinking mature adults are going to scoff and shake their heads in rejection.
You can fool the fools.
I'll say it again, as it seems you lefties are a bit thick.
IF YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER ARE PURE BLOOD, YOU'RE A PURE BLOOD and therefore an abo.
If they're not then you're not and you're a bitsa or more precisely an Australian, with mixed heritage, one of the many others, one of which was aboriginal!
Your arguments are just the same as a child chucking a tantrum over a chocolate or something.
'No I want to be an abo, and that's that, I don't care about logic, reason , science, genetics, DNA, I want to be what I want to be and everyone else can get stuffed'.
And you call me a racist you arrogant, moronic prick.
Shame on you, by pushing your breed of racism you completely sideline and sh!t all over YOUR ancestors who formed the lineage that you are the current result of.
Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 3 November 2018 6:56:45 PM
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Dear Joe,

Thank You for the statistics.

Great results - I hate no idea there were so many
Indigenous People doing so well. We usually only
hear the bad results not the good. It would be
great if the media gave us some positive stories
just for a change. But then I guess good outcomes
don't sell newspapers.

Dear Paul,

You have an amazing family - and you have every right
to be proud. I wish that I could attend the Party -
it would be fabulous. Give my love to your wife.
As far as ancestry goes? It's what's in your heart
that really matters. According to my parents - there
were so many so called "patriots" in their country
who during WWII sold their country out to the enemy.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 3 November 2018 7:27:43 PM
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//And you (Paul1405) call me a racist you arrogant, moronic prick//
//you (Joe) arrogant ignorant pig.//

I take exception at that ALTRAV, not the name calling, that's par for the course with you, and who cares anyway. I take exception at you calling Joe ignorant, regardless of what kind of animal you might think Joe is, and he wouldn't care less, when it comes to ABORIGINAL MATTERS Joe is certainly not ignorant, and would leave everyone on this forum for dead. His research has been painstaking in producing facts, something you seem to be painfully unaware of. I was going to tell you to shove it up your nose, but I don't think I'll bother
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 4 November 2018 7:13:07 AM
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Dear oh dear. Paul takes 'exception'. The same person who has made name calling an art form. Both he and Joe are obsessed with race - Paul is constantly adding a strand of some race or another to his own make up. Joe's wife was of aboriginal background, I believe.

Both of them are big on identity politics, and both have called me a racist from time to time. This concerns me not a wit; I just don't have any respect for them. They certainly are ignorant. I don't know why ALTRAV left Paul out.

My point is this: if you indulge in identity politics to the exclusion of just about all else, you are going to raise somebody's ire. Both Paul and Joe have called people names, and to have one of them - Paul - whining about the other - Joe - being called 'ignorant’ is really pathetic. It's all the more pathetic that Paul thinks he should be going into bat for Joe, who is capable of speaking for himself.

And, Joe. Just how interested do you think that 96% of the population should be in the university attendance of just 4% of the population
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 4 November 2018 9:14:33 AM
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Poor old ttbn who fails to comprehend as usual. //The same person (Paul405) who has made name calling an art form// I said "I take exception at that ALTRAV, not the name calling,"...." I take exception at you calling Joe ignorant".

ttbn no need for you to worry about university, you have to get past kindergarten first. Was that your downfall?

Hi Foxy, yes its going to be one hellava bash come September next. It will be in Brisbane (we moved from Sydney to be with the moko's up here). I miss the brother-in-law, passed on about 18 months ago. Now that bloke could put on one great party at his house, Start Saturday, finish sometime Monday.

Getting old have a 21st for our oldest moko (our direct grandson) later this month. Caught up with a grand-moko (a cousins grand daughter, moko's are not only your direct ones, a bit hard for us Europeans to understand, the extended family thing, and how it works, rather complicated, especially when you inherit children, like sons and daughters you didn't know you had). She works at the local club, over 18....gee am getting old.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 4 November 2018 9:52:20 AM
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Dear Paul,

I received a telephone call from a girlfriend in Los
Angeles this morning. It was great to catch up. She
told me how much her life has changed since her
husband passed away a while back. She's involved
in charity work to keep busy. Her kids and grand kids
live in different states in the US - they're all
currently travelling overseas. She tells me that recently
her social life has been made up of going to the funerals
of friends. She told me to count my blessing - and be
thankful that I still have my family.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know to also count your blessings
with your family and extended family. They enrich our lives
because loneliness can be quite soul destroying. I see that
whenever I spend time in my the nursing home where mum used
to be.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 4 November 2018 10:12:36 AM
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cont'd ...

Sorry for the typos.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 4 November 2018 10:14:16 AM
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get past kindergarten first.
paul1405,
I have never seen stupid kids come from Kindy but I have seen countless morons come from Unis.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 4 November 2018 1:09:03 PM
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Ttbn,

I've written many times that I don't support identity politics, that it's okay to be any bloody thing, white, black, Asian, whatever, and that equal rights means just that and no more or less - that all people, regardless of ethnicity or gender or what-the-hell-ever are no better or worse than anybody else, and should have as much rights as anybody else. Please don't play this game of falsely accusing someone, then feeling free to get stuck into your own straw man.

Thanks, Paul, best wishes and aroha to you and your wife, your relations and your mokopunas :)

Dearest Foxy,

Yes, value your living friends and your memories of past friends, in that way they never really pass away.

Love,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 4 November 2018 1:15:26 PM
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OK, that's it, enough is enough.
Paul, Joe and Foxy, between the three of you, you have corrupted and contaminated this forum for the thousandth time.
Your slobbering and arse licking over rubbish which has nothing to do with the topic is way beyond the pale, and I don't know why the judge's aren't putting a ban on you all.
The bloody topic is called 'Steady 8% Growth in Indigenous Uni Performance'!
NOT; 'the mutual admiration society' and let's all get cosy and cuddly and talk about our family and rubbish unrelated to the topic in question.
If you people would only read your rubbish and the way you carry on, it's the kind of interaction which leads people to be sick and demand you all 'GET A F@(KEN ROOM!
If you all want to pat each other on the back and whatever else you want to do, start a new topic, and you can spend the rest of your lives telling each other how wonderful you all are.
I will give you the incentive to do just that, by saying, if you do, I promise I will absolutely not comment on such a topic, you can have it all to yourselves.
In the meantime, get back on topic or shut it with all this mutual admiration crap.
So to confirm once more, the number of true abo's going to uni, is but an insignificant fraction of the BS stats being published.
The stats are contaminated with selfish, arrogant Aussies of mixed blood.
End of!
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 4 November 2018 7:52:21 PM
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ALTRAV, we are human, and we interact, I can't help it if you are a total bore.

//And, Joe. Just how interested do you think that 96% of the population should be in the university attendance of just 4% of the population//

ttbn, its hoped that the greater number are interested in education in general, including that of the 4% you speak of. It's my belief that society cannot spend a better dollar, than the one spent on education. The return on investment is ten fold, successful people living successful and rewarding lives, black, white, Asian, Eskimo's and yes even you and ALTRAV. In my opinion no one can be over educated, learning is something that should continue for the whole of ones life, not necessarily in a formal institution, for most that time comes to an end, but learning should go on in our day to day life experience.

//I have never seen stupid kids come from Kindy but I have seen countless morons come from Unis.// and how did you do that Indy? BTW is Unis some cynical corruption of the word "anus" on your part, or just a typo of sorts.

I can't understand why some of the extreme crusty old men on the forum, are so belligerent about people being educated, do they feel threatened by such people, or are they simply jealous that they were failures, or didn't get the same opportunity? Now Indy has joined in, I'll also ask ttbn and ALTRAV as well, those three are well qualified to give an answer to such a question.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 4 November 2018 8:41:10 PM
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ALTRAV,

Good one, mate. It gets a bit sickening doesn't it. Do you think these characters ever interact with anyone off their own dunghills in real life. They seem to be insulated from reality. And, don't they get the pouts when they are called out! When they finally get around to calling you a racist, which they always do, you know that you have won. It's time to move on. They don't have anything left. Foxy usually uses bad language, and calls you something with 'little' in it. Yawn.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 4 November 2018 10:24:51 PM
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Guys, I'll take this one.
OH Paul, you fell right into your own trap with this question.
The answer is so simple;
If tertiary education is so good, why then do we have the biggest number of morons making the most stupid decisions on a daily basis from govt to banking to private enterprise, in other words, with all these brainiacs coming out of uni, (oh and BTW, Paul you can't be serious, when you questioned the word 'unis'. It's short for University.) now where was I, oh yes,.....coming out of uni, why then do we have such a sh!t standard of employees in Australia.
And the fact that there are not enough jobs for uni grads, so they do 'real' jobs like unqualified, unskilled jobs, such as shop assistants and so on, to make some money whilst waiting for their opportunity.
Reality check: Aussies are NOT the smartest people on the planet.
Since the system decided to dumb down the curriculum so their stats looked better, it goes something like this'
What is taught is barely 50% of what is required.
The passing grade is 50% of what is taught.
So these graduates with a piece of toilet paper, (not even good for that) expect to be taken seriously, so the few who are actually employed end up learning on the job.
Their education was so abysmal and is evident by the standard of the decisions made in the 'real' world.
Over the years I have hired and fired, and I can tell, when a job aspirant came before me I would put his paperwork aside on my desk, and I would simply sit and talk to him.
That was my measure of a man, not some BS that an embarrassed previous employer wrote in a pathetic attempt to mitigate his lack of courage in sacking the guy.
BTW, it's not my education, we are talking about, it's these so called brainiacs LACK of education which is in question here, and their true level of intelligence.
Just to make it clear.
We are NOT ALL EQUAL or the SAME!
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 4 November 2018 10:48:38 PM
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ALTRAV, when you don't know, you simply make it up as you go. Nothing like having your own set of invented statistics to throw around.
//What is taught is barely 50% of what is required.
The passing grade is 50% of what is taught.//
Where did you pull that bit of fallacious rubbish from?

Its unfortunate you have such hatred for educated people with so much mind's eye delusional nonsense. Nothing you say is based on fact, its all simply unsubstantiated distorted claptrap on your part. Australia, with all its faults is a lot better country than you give it credit for.

//Over the years I have hired and fired// you wish, I could not imagine you in any occupation that didn't involve your use of a mop and bucket.

//We are NOT ALL EQUAL or the SAME!// Thankfully, although it seems you and ttbn came out of the same mould, but hopefully there are no more.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 5 November 2018 5:06:36 AM
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Paul, you wonder why you get mocked and knocked so much.
Have you ever been outside or anywhere further than your own mind.
When you rise to my level, in all matters pertaining to life and intelligence, ability, imagination and on to a level way above yours, you can comment.
Because this is not a forum about me I won't facilitate you any further than to say, I have over time given excerpts of myself and my life experiences, in other words, my history is already out there, so think back and put all those comments and details together and you will not say or believe what you state.
The things I say may never be as accurate as you may like, but then neither are the stats to which you refer.
When I say people are being taught 50% of what they should be taught, you are supposed to note the reasoning not the accuracy of the numbers.
How stupid must you be to make such a comment or observation, typically evading the point being made so as to attempt to supplant your arrogant submission in contrast.
The left hate it when they are faced with truths that show them up to be inadequate fools, like the greens to name but one such garbage.
Your arrogance just cost you your cred you neanderthal.
So according to you, you low class moron, someone who's job it is to mop up after arrogant, smart arse, jumped up, pricks like you, is of a lower standing than you.
So what have you done in this life to justify you putting down someone who actually works for a living.
If you are any gauge as to the level of education in this country, then I rest my case.
I hate it when people like you argue when you know that the comment is right, just so that you can be seen to be viable and as if you know what your talking about.
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 5 November 2018 7:52:17 AM
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No, we are not all equal.

"Recognition of everyone's 'equal worth' means a failure to recognise the worth of people who are actually superior in some sense". (Francis Fukuyama, 'Identity', 2018).

As there are no people fitting the 'actually superior' description on the Left, they try to drag down everyone to their level, which is the hallmark of Marxism.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 5 November 2018 9:43:35 AM
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Dear Paul,

Obviously some people have not heard that "self-praise is not
a recommendation." Never mind - the kisses on their mirrors
speak volumes.

All over this country ageing Nazis are hiding their swastikas
and putting on their cardigans with "Who Me?" expressions.
And if you doubt that they exist - 19 were kicked out of the
National Party recently.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 5 November 2018 10:20:48 AM
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Is Mise,

Congratulations on your 25th Wedding Anniversary.

25 years is quite impressive - it really calls
for something festive.

All The Best To You Both!
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 5 November 2018 10:23:31 AM
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Foxy, I presume the 'dig' about self praise is directed at me.
Well my love, as it turns out, I merely gave a factual rendition of how I have been described.
I thought it best suited this conversation.
And I was right.
You see, it is you who have praised me by your failed attempt at trying to 'put me in my place'.
My life has been one of helping people, I did not imagine it, I can prove it, with TV, news paper articles, pictures an' everything, so those of you who consider yourselves 'lesser' people can 'read it and weep'.
I love this, people who clearly know little or nothing about me, are commenting about ME.
What I don't hear from you and your inadequate comrades, is anyone asking me to prove something of what I have done or achieved.
Actually I think you already know some things about me, and as I said before, you don't want it repeated because it will then knock you guys for a six and you will not only lose cred, but have to admit formally that you were wrong.
OH the humanity!
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 5 November 2018 12:01:49 PM
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ALTRAV, if I send $5 can I have your autograph?
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 5 November 2018 1:40:30 PM
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One issue is among Abo culture (from what I've read) is a higher rate of domestic abuses. If nothing else having more within that community go to college to change that element of their culture, then it's a positive. Regardless of positives or negatives of college life, that aspect might be a change of culture, regardless if they are real abos or anything else.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Monday, 5 November 2018 2:02:35 PM
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Dear Paul,

You've got more patience than me.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 5 November 2018 2:08:52 PM
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Ttbn,

// Just how interested do you think that 96% of the population should be in the university attendance of just 4% of the population//

Well, you seem to be :)

Nice definitional slide, from 'equality' to 'equal worth'. As human beings, we are all entitled to the same range of opportunities, rights and obligations - that's 'equality' in the broadest sense. Whether somebody accesses those aspects of human rights is up to them, and most certainly many don't, and many abuse those human privileges. So most certainly, not everybody is of 'equal worth', but all should have the opportunities to be of 'worth'. Whether you and I are of equal worth is very debatable, I'm sure you would agree, but I would defend your rights to equal treatment, opportunities, and obligations like anybody else.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 5 November 2018 2:19:23 PM
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Loudmouth, I agree with you in one hand.
If I understand you correctly, we should all be given the same or equal opportunity.
Am I understanding you correctly?
OK, I agree, so what is your view on the fact that only a few and not all those who apply to go to uni, get in.
Why aren't they all allowed to proceed up the education ladder to get a degree?
I don't think it's fair to stop someone from trying.
I think it's prejudicial to not allow everyone in and then let the cards fall where they may.
Let the students themselves realise after a certain time or after a few tests, that they're not cut out for that career, and not have the rug pulled out from under them, before they even start and been tried and tested.
Someone may not stack up on the day, but warm up once in and on the study circuit.
So it is that many uni eligible kids never get to TRY, because of some pathetic discriminatory system.
You can never know who will make the next big discovery, if you don't let EVERYONE have a go!
On the subject of abo's and uni's one thing is also worthy of consideration.
Removing the emotion for a second.
Uni attendance is directly linked to the number of kids with mixed parentage.
As the number of parents of mixed (abo/european) blood increase so to will the number of kids from these unions, go to uni.
It's the European factor that will influence their ability to qualify for uni entrance.
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 5 November 2018 7:12:29 PM
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NNS, domestic violence is not a cultural thing, it is a socioeconomic problem. Poor people with low levels of education tend to have a lot more issues with lower tolerance levels than the average. The poorly educated will resort to violence as a first response far more often than normal. If domestic violence ever was accepted as culturally normal behaviour, then cultural change has made it unacceptable today.

In some tribal cultures although violence was an accepted part of everyday life, violence towards women was not accepted. The violence today exhibited among indigenous people is not the result of some past cultural practice, but more the result of disadvantage in a modern western society.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 5:05:58 AM
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//my (ALTRAV) history is already out there, so think back and put all those comments and details together and you will not say or believe what you state.//
Assuming I read all the rubbish you post about yourself, which I do not. Judging by your off the planet opinions, you're not that bright.
You resort to name calling, "you neanderthal", "you low class moron", "pricks like you" which demonstrates a decided lack of intelligence on your part.

//You've got more patience than me.// Foxy, I always apply the armadillo principle and take no notice of what a wannabe Nazi like ALTRAV has to say.

From his own trumpet blowing he sees himself as a cross between Albert Schweitzer (great humanitarian) and Winston Churchill (great political leader), unfortunately something went wrong with the mating, and all we got was another Daffy Duck.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 5:28:56 AM
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Dear Paul,

I was going to type what the author JK Rowling once
wrote in response to a troll on social media - to make
you laugh regarding our resident self-opiniated poster,
however after re-reading it I found that it's too rude
for a public forum such as this one. The best we can do
I guess is simply ignore him. He wants a platform and to
divert discussions. Don't give it to him.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 9:35:36 AM
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Thanks, Paul.

Another couple of intriguing data:

* In 2017, out of 426,371 domestic Australian commencements, 246,935 were female (i.e. 58 %). Indigenous female commencers numbered 5,780, or 2.34 % of all Australian domestic female commencers; and the equivalent of 3.4 % of all Australian domestic's male commencers.

[This might partly explain Alt Rave's whinge about white males being excluded and dreadfully mistreated by the university sector].

2.05 % of all Australian domestic commencers were Indigenous.

* In 2017, 1.8 % of all domestic university enrolments were Indigenous. 2 % of all Domestic female enrolments were Indigenous.

Still a long way to go, especially because (I suspect) very little effort is being made by Indigenous staff at universities to publicise, promote and recruit Indigenous students from the outer suburbs, rural and remote areas. Turnstile universities simply count all those Indigenous students from Year 12 who do all that themselves, and owe support programs nothing. I'd except Charles Sturt, Griffith, QUT, Newcastle, CQU and James Cook from that assertion.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 9:41:25 AM
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Dear Joe,

It is heartening though as you point out, even though
there's still a long way to go. However these achievements
should be publicised. Why do we only hear about the bad stuff
in the media? You'd think that good reporting should also be
part and parcel of investigative journalism.

Young people need role-models. Look at the problems of the
young Sudanese. Everything appears so bleak there.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 10:12:32 AM
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Dear Foxy,

Publicised ? Yes, indeed. Higher ed should be an eighth target for 'Closing the Gap'.

Just let me know when you ever see any report or comment on Indigenous higher education by Indigenous higher education 'leaders'. Sometimes over the years, I've sent them the data, but I think I've only ever received one response. Possibly, they can't read Excel spread-sheets, those are such white-fella inventions. Possibly, their reasons for not responding are more 'complex'.

Love,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 11:02:26 AM
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Dear Joe,

There's nothing more that you can do - and you're doing
plenty as it is. Your family must be very proud of you.
They should be.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 11:06:00 AM
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Dear Foxy,

It's called 'obsession'. Or maybe 'misplaced faith'. Anyhow, Indigenous higher education will be in the spotlight, sooner or later, in numbers that the elites can't control: in the next ten years, maybe 40,000 graduates ? How to absorb that many more into the Industry ? Particularly if government start to question what they're getting for thirty billion of the taxpayers' dollars ?

Love,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 12:58:30 PM
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No Joe, a passion not an obsession, a passion to see good young people aspire to better things in life than poverty, crime and an early end. Rightly we no longer see Indigenous as suitable for low paid menial employment like domestic servants for the girls, and station hands for the boys.

A little story, I was telling my wife about the numbers of Aboriginal kids taking on tertiary education, she was impressed.
Her own story; when she completed high school with good grades, the careers adviser, a female teacher, asked her what she wanted to do. She told her "I want to go to collage and become a Maori language teacher". The CA lady who was very nice but condescending, said "Öh... you do not want a job straight away? I know of good jobs for Maori girls going in the shoe factory in Auckland, it would help your family... and what about marriage?" T; "Marriage? No not for some time."
"T" took on the shoe factory job for a little while, she did want to help out at home. Boarded with a relative in Auckland during the week, her father insisted she catch the late train home on Friday afternoon, about a five hour trip up north, and return to Auckland on Sunday afternoon. Her father did not want her at 18 to be in the big bad city on weekends. "T" said the job was very hard and the pay was bloody lousy, what she didn't give to mum, went on board and train fares, she was lucky if she had 5 bob a week for herself. She left that lousy job, and thankfully was able to make a worth while career for herself later on.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 10:00:31 PM
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To Paul.

Sometimes domestic violence is actually a cultural thing. Or at least in the fact that it is fed by the culture and is more common in one culture then another. That it has ties to socioeconomic factors I will agree with as well. But at some point you have to look hard at a population that stay in a specific strata of society and observe that they have a cultural influence to help keep them in that place of society.

Where we agree is that a higher education might be a solution to this. From your view education on it's own is the solution, possibly also by enabling them to have better jobs and an economic place. From my perspective, college is an influence to break down and challenge people's previous ideals (unless their ideals already matched what the college teaches). Because of this, college has the ability to change the culture of a population and let them accept or reject certian cultural elements that would support a hostile home, or even a hostile work enviornment.

Make no mistake though I think there are benifits to just starting a life and getting a job, instead of wading through college before moving on in life. But for a cultural change, a ratio of people challenged enough in their ideas can cause a change in that group as a whole by introducing the same challenges and ideas to the community. College can do this for the cultural factors that feed domestic abuse.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 3:34:57 AM
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//Sometimes domestic violence is actually a cultural thing//
NNS I'm not familiar with any culture where "bashing the wife" is done as a accepted cultural practice, a bit like celebrating Christmas. What there is, in some societies, including our own, where domestic violence has become accepted by many as a male justified right, a bit like drinking beer. I do agree that at times the line between a cultural practice and common practice is hard to define, but there is a distinction between the two. In either case it does not make it right in our eyes, a bit like cannibalism.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 8:26:52 PM
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To Paul

Here you go.

•A cultural link of male dominance in Mexico to rampant violence towards women both in the family home and outside of it.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/026975800000700305

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-36324570

(Just google Mexican culture and abuse to see more articles).

•Native Americans struggle with domestic violence. (Part of their culture is their history, and much of that is unfortunately getting the short end of the stick).

https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/diverse-populations/americanindian/mentalhealth/

•recognized domestic and family violence in Aboriginal community. At what point do you say a behavior is rampant in a specific population group, and therefore that group's current culture needs to change. If it was no cultural influences then the data would look differently. Look at current culture, not past tribal cultural that might have been there. By looking at current trends and beliefs (what makes up a culture), we can address several factors that are part of bad common and cultural behaviors.

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/domestic-and-family-violence

•for a further understanding on the term culture consider the realities of a drug culture. There's no reason to to not call it as it just is because it's insulting and therefore avoided in a PC world.

https://www.cascadementalhealth.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=58688&cn=1409
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 8 November 2018 3:29:27 AM
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