To those who have shared kind words about our meeting.. including those who normally have rather 'harsh' words for Islam, the point I really want to make here, (besides thanking you all for sharing) is that the driving force in my own life is the love of Christ.
Yes...I know.. 'but those diatribes..those rants...those hysterical foamings at the mouth'..... no..very few of those are directed at anyone on this forum, they are directed at ideas... foundations...motives.

I can honestly say (FH don't blush now :) that my feeling for FH is one of genuine affection and kindness. I would find it difficult to maintain such a view if he was espousing the same kind of doctrines driving those who are currently blowing themselves up at the Red mosque and around Pakistan. But that's the point.. he is not like that. I feel so sorry for those in Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan who are hurling themselves into eternity in a flash of explosive, all on the strength of what they have been fed by 'dark forces' who see in them a convenient tool of advancing an evil agenda.

FH and I differ in our understanding of what the connection is between the foundations of Islam and their behavior, I think he would say they 'misunderstand and misinterpret' whereas I feel there are some grounds for connecting the actions with the ideas. We can agree to differ on that. I attribute that difference of understanding to FH's sufi connections/background more than an objective interpretation of Islam. (you can bop me later for that one mate :)

Rob, you are still hung up on 'violence' in too general a way. If you took the trouble to sus out those verses, it would indeed be helpful. I hope others will do so.

There is a difference between 'reporting' violence as history, reporting violence as 'one of' acts of Judgement, and "advocating" it for all time, based on supposed eternal principles. Don't you see that Rob ?

I have also met up with fellow-human. He is the charming young fellow that Boaz described. But he and I have never quarreled on OLO, we formed an alliance of two tolerant people. Perhaps I shall have to meet with David Boaz as well. I have always thought of him as a bigot, apparently I was totally wrong. Perhaps all three of us will have to meet together, but I warn you both I cannot be converted, if I get funny and get a religious bug before I die it will be back to Judaism. I happen to regard it as the least silly of them all. My father brought me up to be tolerant particularly of other peoples views.

All the best to you both. Inshalla, God speed, shalom.

LOGIC...that would be a delightful experience..and maybe the beginnings of an OLO get2gether :)

Anytime.. I'm in Melbourne, and I'll look up FH in Sydney.. where are you ?

Don't confuse 'passionate' for bigotry :)

OOps...I neglected the best bit of your post Logic :)

Let me reply with one word PAUL.... here is his pre-conversion condition.

Galatians 1

13For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Phillipians: 3:5

4though I myself have reasons for such confidence.(In Judaism)
If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.

But then....Oh.the glorious 'then'.. in the next verse he says:

7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things.

There is only one word which can describe this HALELUJAH.

So, while I respect your position and determination... I would never close the book on "Will Logic become as I am..in Christ" because as Paul discovered.....sometimes it does not depend on 'us' :)

David

You can get me on pcohen@controlsmart.com.au

But regarding religion, don't raise your hopes. I regard religions as
attempts to understand the meaning of life. Moses, Jesus, Mahomet, Suddarhta were all adding their understanding, to something which we will never know, unless something is revealed after death.

But a Deity if one exists has not given us sufficient evidence of its existence, only documents by observers, written generally after the event, and even these conflict. I can only assume that we are meant to come to conclusions by our collective reasoning, how else can we explain the lack of measurable facts. A creator would have known that we were bound to establish scientific method, either the creator does not exists or does not intend us to know the whole truth.

That is why I prefer faiths like Judaism and Buddhism which allow for those of other faiths or even atheists to receive the benefits of the Deity.