I should tip toe out of here, but just want to say I think there are far more fellow Humans than those who concern me.
And the thread is a sign of hope.

Awww Belly..c'mon mate.. walk on the wild side a bit :)

Step out with the giants ...

I'll catch up with you on our personal debate thread.. "You can run...but you can't hide" :)

Belly. just picking up on a point you made.. (I'm in serious mode now)

You mentioned there are more like FH than those which concern you..
agreed...

The problem though, if there be one, is that the few who are NOT like FH, seem to have far more impact and influence than their numbers suggest they should.

Hence it is up to us all, the FH's and the BD's and the Belly's and Pericles's... all of us, to root out those who would destroy with violence the possibility of a friendly lunch across faith boundaries.

I'm hoping that our experience has shown that no matter how strong the words are in criticism of other beliefs, it does not mean or have to mean that there is any personal animosity involved toward the adherants of those beliefs.

I make a lot of static here, becuase I see in "Muslim Village" forum (Sydney) the kind of society we would have if such people ran the country. While FH is open to discuss and be criticized and to criticize, the people on that forum are not. God help us if they ever had real power.

BD, perhaps it would be easier for us all to work together to root out the extremists if you desist from your broadscale attacks on those who believe differently to yourself. Your consistant claims that because we do do not share the same foundation as yourself we are lost at sea or grounded in violence.

The Quran has violence in it but so does your book, you choose the see the violence in your own book as the acts of a god dealing with sinners or of sinners acting outside gods will, at a guess muslims see the violence in the Quran in the same ways. Because I base my morality and ethics on the best that I can find from human learning does not make them any less valid than the morality and ethics of someone basing them on the interpretation of a holy book. Someone who decides that sections which don't make sense were for the time or were alegorical rather than literal is really engaged in make it up as you go wether they admit it or not.

Accept that you disagree with our beliefs, that people of pretty much any belief system are capable of twisting it to wrong and that some others are capable of making a silk purse out of a sows ear.

If you want to address the issues of concern then step back a bit from the desire to use those things to promote your own beliefs and start talking about the actual issues. Start the odd thread discussing extremism in the christain church. Accepting that muslims and agnostics/athiests are capable of being decent human beings with a workable moral and ethical core even if you would prefer a different one for us.

R0bert

If you see my observation "Would it be too much to hope that you might now begin to wind back your rabble-rousing rhetoric?" was a jibe, Boaz, that is very sad.

I am genuinely pleased that you had such a constructive meeting with "a nicer fellow one could hardly meet", and my comment was also a genuine pious hope.

Interestingly, it occurred to me that a meeting between the two of us would - while undoubtedly friendly - have far less common ground to work with than that between you two religious folk.

Boaz and F-H,
Good to hear of your friendly encounter. As I have previously said, Islam under F_H's beliefs and attitudes poses no threat to our way of life. However we must all work together to rout out any person from any belief system who poses a threat of violence.

Robert,
Your quote, "The Quran has violence in it but so does your book, you choose the see the violence in your own book as the acts of a god dealing with sinners or of sinners acting outside gods will, at a guess muslims see the violence in the Quran in the same ways".

Not quite the same. The Bible is a history of evolving revelation over 4,000 years under many leaders. Most of it about nationalism. Jesus was one who encouraged personal faith and spoke strongly against and condemned violence addressing it as opposition to God [of Satan]. I suggest you read the New Testament.

Compare the violence advocated in the Qur'an is by a Leader 600 years later than Jesus and his life demonstrated such violence. Jesus said if my kingdom was of this world [nationalism] then would my followers fight. Jesus submitted to and endured violence against him, unlike Mohamet who advocated, confronted and engaged in it.

Supposedly Mohamet is the latest revelation. You judge! Who is more advanced in social reconciliation! True believers follow their leader to death. One is about territory the other about personal heart relationship. One is laying down his life the other taking others life.